2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

[deviljets7]

E,

I think you are underestimating the difficulty of moving Devin Harris and others for cap space.

In regards to Harris, let's think about it. How many teams in the league 1.) Have enough cap room or a TPE large enough to absorb Harris' salary. 2.) Has the need for a PG and 3.) Can afford to pay him and/or willing to damage their FA flexibility for Harris.

Let's look at the teams who meet requirement #1
Chicago
Dallas
Clippers
Miami
Minnesota
New York
Oklahoma City
Sacramento
Washington

Nine teams total. We can quickly eliminate Chicago (Rose), Oklahoma City (Westbrook) and Washington (Wall) since none of them need Harris.

I think you can also eliminate Dallas. While Kidd/Terry/Beaubois aren't as good as Harris, there is more than enough talent and depth there that I don't see the logic in sacrificing their ability to get an impact player for another PG (let alone add in valuable youth as well). It can be used to fill a much bigger hole for the team. The same applies to the Clippers IMO with all the money they currently have tied up in Baron Davis.

At this point, we're already down to 4 teams (Miami, Minnesota, New York and Sacramento). While Miami and New York need PGs, to compromise their abilities to land 2 MAX FAs and give us that ability to do it would be straight up insanity so they are out.

Now you're left with just 2 teams: Minnesota and Sacramento. With Minnesota you keep on bringing up their issues with Rubio and while all that may be true, you're forgetting one thing: Jonny Flynn. Yes he had a disappointing rookie year, but he's one year removed from being the #6 pick and according to rumors declined a trade of him for pick #10. Even if you are right about Rubio situation, why would you trade his rights for a guy that takes the job away from someone you think as highly of as Flynn? It just doesn't add up.

As for Sacramento. They have a hole at PG (Beno bounced back last year, but lets be real on what he is), but you have a very ball-dominant combo guard in Evans with a limited outside shot. The fit here is pretty questionable.

So when it's all said and done, there are really only 2 fits (and they are questionable ones for various reasons) for Harris and we have not even talked about the asking price here. With other teams desperately looking to shave salary and/or create cap room, there is enough leverage going on where they can get legitimate players/prospects such as Deng, Beasley and others without paying the demands you have brought up thus far.

Maybe there is a creative 3 or 4 team trade where Harris goes elsewhere and a team like the Clippers, Wizards or Thunder get players that better fit them. But there are just very few if any options where you can dump Harris AND get big time value.

[deviljets7]

As for Yi and Humphries. Let's look at some of the rumors and trades of the past few weeks.

We all know and heavily debated the infamous Beasley/Dooling rumor. Now, the validity of it is up for debate, but if Miami couldn't give away a former #2 pick who averaged 15 points per game, that sure doesn't speak well about our chances of giving away our guys without compensation.

Also, let's take a look at the Daquan Cook trade today. Miami had to give up pick 18 to move Cook's salary. Cook is garbage, but he also makes about $1 million less than Hump and $2 million than Yi. I know you can counter with "Miami didn't want to keep the pick anyway" but there's enough rumors of teams wanting to get back into the draft that they could have dealt it for a heavily protected future pick or something.

Maybe Yi's financial impact allows him to not have negative value, but it's hard to see him having positive value if the goal is to clear the $4 million off the cap.

[enetric]

Actually...i didnt underestimate it at all. In fact you just validated what it is I was looking at completely.

I already zeroed in on the same two teams....actually three. Double check Memphis who wasnt on your list. Sure...Rudy Gay...so I guess there are choices to be made.

Next,...I LAUGH at you for calling Deng legitimate anything. Seriously...barf to him and his contract.


Next...not looking for big value. Was looking for a way to turn him and a lower pick into a higher pick.

Next issue...my Rubio comments were part of a super annoying back and forth where i was making a specific point. At no time was I implying that they have to deal Rubio or should deal Rubio. Just that...the offer wasnt horrible IF...and again...IF you are ready to accept he aint coming, is holding you hostage to get to a specific market, and you absolutely have a set target in this draft. So? Take the life line was my point. its a qualified point. It was never a...how can you turn that down thing.

Flynn? Bad pick. Sorry...it was. I siad it then. I had about 5 PG's over Flynn on my list last draft and right now they all look better so far. he will make a fine back up....or...replace him and yeah make that trade with Indy if it was real.

So I guess the question is still the same. Can we move Devin and create cap room? Or a situation where NO doesnt have to take him back and he is off our books? That is the point. And if we cant...you have to wonder. Why in the hell did we really want Wall in the first place????

[enetric]

Seriously? And we are saying hey...cant deal Devin??????

The Celtics are shopping Kendrick Perkins and the 19th overall pick to teams high in the lottery, according to a source.

Perkins was injured in Game 6 of the NBA Finals.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z0rl88hcdD

[deviljets7]

Actually...i didnt underestimate it at all. In fact you just validated what it is I was looking at completely.

I already zeroed in on the same two teams....actually three. Double check Memphis who wasnt on your list. Sure...Rudy Gay...so I guess there are choices to be made.

Next,...I LAUGH at you for calling Deng legitimate anything. Seriously...barf to him and his contract.


Next...not looking for big value. Was looking for a way to turn him and a lower pick into a higher pick.

Next issue...my Rubio comments were part of a super annoying back and forth where i was making a specific point. At no time was I implying that they have to deal Rubio or should deal Rubio. Just that...the offer wasnt horrible IF...and again...IF you are ready to accept he aint coming, is holding you hostage to get to a specific market, and you absolutely have a set target in this draft. So? Take the life line was my point. its a qualified point. It was never a...how can you turn that down thing.

Flynn? Bad pick. Sorry...it was. I siad it then. I had about 5 PG's over Flynn on my list last draft and right now they all look better so far. he will make a fine back up....or...replace him and yeah make that trade with Indy if it was real.

So I guess the question is still the same. Can we move Devin and create cap room? Or a situation where NO doesnt have to take him back and he is off our books? That is the point. And if we cant...you have to wonder. Why in the hell did we really want Wall in the first place????

I'll address the points one by one:

1. With Memphis, I think you forgot to account for the cap holds that come with restricted free agents. For a RFA, the cap hold is 3 times what they made the year before. As a result, the only way they are under the cap is if they renounce the rights to both Gay and Brewer. For that reason, they aren't really a viable option. I know you don't like Gay, but even you have to admit that essentially giving up Gay and Brewer for Harris isn't an especially bright move and that's assuming a straight Harris dump. Even if you think Gay is going to be overpaid, unlike with UFAs MEM has the leverage to turn Gay into picks in a s&t (see Kenyon Martin and Joe Johnson).

Conceivably ATL can be under the cap if/when they lose/renounce Joe Johnson, but that requires time that frankly NJ doesn't have.

2. Does Deng's contract suck? Yes. Does Deng have anywhere near the value of Harris? Absolutely not. I know there's a lot of crazy rumors/ideas out there, but by many accounts the Bulls are willing to pay to remove Deng. Say you are the Clippers, a team with cap space, no shot at LeBron and a hole the size of the Staples Center at SF. Which makes more sense, getting Deng and incentives from the Bulls or having to pay assets for Harris?

3. As for Rubio/Flynn. I think everyone outside of Minnesota can acknowledge it was a stupid pick. Hard to argue otherwise when you passed up on Curry, Jenning and Holiday plus you pissed off Rubio in the process. But in the end, this isn't about what we think the T-Wolves should do, but what they will do. We may think Flynn was a stupid pick and should be shipped out, but if they did turn down Flynn for pick #10, I can't see them giving up on him and bringing in another PG, regardless of the Rubio situation.

With moving Harris, two different issues. Is he movable in a deal that is cap neutral? Yes and I think he can fetch some good value. But with the supply and demand of cap space, trading Harris in a deal that fetches major cap space is a lot harder.

[deviljets7]

Seriously? And we are saying hey...cant deal Devin??????

The Celtics are shopping Kendrick Perkins and the 19th overall pick to teams high in the lottery, according to a source.

Perkins was injured in Game 6 of the NBA Finals.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z0rl88hcdD

E,

I think you are confusing dealing Devin for assets, with dealing Devin for cap room (and presumably assets).

I'm sure Boston in any deal would at the very least be taking equal salary back.

If you're willing to deal Harris in a deal that doesn't create significant cap savings I'm sure you could get very good value for him. The problem is by asking for the significant cap savings, you have eliminated almost all possible suitors because they either don't have the cap savings to offer or are unwilling to limit their free agent flexibility to do it.

[enetric]

Come on....

I am not confusing anything here. Perkins and 19 and I dont care if you offer to wash the other teams car and let him grope your wife. Cap space of no cap space...that crap gets a lottery pick and we are going to go round and round here?

I agree...need is the key issue. But basically you broke that down as...hey...if you take more from someone you can get more. That is not exactly true either.

As for the previous post...I have no beef with most of what oyu said. Good points.

I will address 2 and 3.

First off...the Bulls rumor is getting the Clips lottery pick for their lower pick and Deng. Its exactly the same angle I wasnt suggesting wouldnt be easy...but instead saying...hey...lets look at that. Can we find a similar deal? it was a hey lets put our heas together...not I think this is a piece of cake. not sure what you read to think i was saying otherwise.

Last on the Flynn thing. I think you are looking at it from only one angle. If you actually upgraed youe PG spot...perhaps you might LIKE to revisit an offer for an extra lottery pick. I mean...arent you jumping to the most simple conclusion? Rumor said they turned it down...they must love him and arent going to be interested in anything else. Perhaps its was need. Perhaps you say screw this...lets upgrade.

Now I dont see a deal happening...I am just saying...I dont agree with your conclusion of the rumor mill. Like...hey this can only mean this. Just saying...

[Rich Rane]

Does anyone understand the ass clown today?

Basically a bunch of rumors now being reported to be nonsense they he didnt like make him trust Thorn...LESS rather than more?

Basically this guy lives to be a whinny girl and looks for bizarre angles to validate himself.

E, I must ask that you not refer to said poster as "ass clown". Please note that even though he may disagree with you or many others, whether it's to a close or very far extent, he is a Nets fan. I also ask that you use the ignore function.

[Rockice_8]

We are offering #27 and #31 for #19. I wonder if Thorn has a hand shake deal for Harris or Yi and he is trying to move up to target a replacement PG (Avery Bradley) or something.

[Preludepunk27]

To tell you the truth, I think Yi would be great off the bench for Boston. Any team looking for length in their front court and the ability to spread the floor due to their range would benefit from Yi. Too bad wed have to take back contracts in that situation though.

I did read that although Prohky and the other execs view Yi as a focal point for creating a Global Brand, if we can move him for future picks and cap space now, we would.

As huge as Yi is in China, if I had to move him for a better chance to get Lebron...do I really need to finish my thought?

Right now I've be begging teams for take Dooling or Humphries for future 2nd round picks and a TPE and Yi for future protected 1st round pick. If we can keep the rest of that roster together and get 2 legit players, you're talking about a scary team for the next 5 years at the minimum.

[SteveNets15]

I'm sticking with Cousins as my pick to.He's the BPA so I'll take the chance on him.I think once he gets to play against the better competition every night he'll either crawl into the fetel position or step up and prove people wrong.John Calipari was saying last night on that draft show that Cousins is the type of kid that will remember every team that passed on him and will try to drop 50 on them everytime he's plays them to the day he retires.Thats just the type of mentality he has.I'm just saying he doesnt seem like a kid thats going fold going up against better competition every night.I think once he gets his ass busted by DH and schooled by guys like Bosh,he'll understand what its goin to take to get better.Like losing weight and hitting the gym for gods sake.Dam i just don't want to mess this pick up by going with the safe option over the BPA.SAC is going to end up with another steal watch.Evans and Cousins bak2bak ahhhhhhhhhhhh I can't take this anymore.I'm going to lunch

[Preludepunk27]

I'm sticking with Cousins as my pick to.He's the BPA so I'll take the chance on him.I think once he gets to play against the better competition every night he'll either crawl into the fetel position or step up and prove people wrong.John Calipari was saying last night on that draft show that Cousins is the type of kid that will remember every team that passed on him and will try to drop 50 on them everytime he's plays them to the day he retires.Thats just the type of mentality he has.I'm just saying he doesnt seem like a kid thats going fold going up against better competition every night.I think once he gets his ass busted by DH and schooled by guys like Bosh,he'll understand what its goin to take to get better.Like losing weight and hitting the gym for gods sake.Dam i just don't want to mess this pick up by going with the safe option over the BPA.SAC is going to end up with another steal watch.Evans and Cousins bak2bak ahhhhhhhhhhhh I can't take this anymore.I'm going to lunch

Since he's an offensive black hole, yeah he'll score 50 but his team will lose by 30. He is the spawn of Zach Randolph and Eddie Curry. Jay Bilas was on Mike & Mike this morning and he said if it were up to him, Even though he thinks he's the most NBA ready player in the draft he'd pass on Cousins and let someone else deal with it.

[amk482]

Adrian Woj via twitter....

Rod Thorn "doesn't love" Nets draft spot now and open for right bid to move down, sources say. "He's fine with sliding back," source says.

[Preludepunk27]

Adrian Woj via twitter....

Rod Thorn "doesn't love" Nets draft spot now and open for right bid to move down, sources say. "He's fine with sliding back," source says.

I want Favors. Personally, the only way I'm moving down is if a team takes Hump and doolings off our hands or makes our team legitimately better without sacrificing the room for a max player. I'm pretty sure that gives us the 2 max contract space without losing Yi.

Can someone verify that for me?

[Rockice_8]

Look this is a 5 player maybe 6 (Monroe/Udoh) player draft and if we move out of the top 5 it better because we now have 2 max spots available or it better be because we are landing a superstar. If we trade down to 7 or something and get an extra pick and then draft Aminu I'm going to jump. Just take Favors and try to dump Yi with picks later on.

Can Proky just tell Hump look don't exercise your option and I will give you a bs job in my company and pay you 4 mil then fire you and you can go find a team where you can find some PT.

Bam just like that trade Yi and a future 1st for Gomes and his ungauranteed contract and do the Hump under the table deal and we could keep our #3 pick and Harris while gaining 2 max slots

Championship!

[Rockice_8]

Adrian Woj via twitter....

Rod Thorn "doesn't love" Nets draft spot now and open for right bid to move down, sources say. "He's fine with sliding back," source says.

I want Favors. Personally, the only way I'm moving down is if a team takes Hump and doolings off our hands or makes our team legitimately better without sacrificing the room for a max player. I'm pretty sure that gives us the 2 max contract space without losing Yi.

Can someone verify that for me?

No Pre, I think it has to be Yi and Hump or Harris to get the 2 max spots.

[SteveNets15]

I think we need about 8 million off the cap to sign 2 max.

[SteveNets15]

So it would have to be Yi,Hump and Dooling.

[Rockice_8]

So it would have to be Yi,Hump and Dooling.

Dooling is easy just buy himout which is a definate. Yi should still have some value especially if we throw on a 2nd rounder (hell I'd do 2 if we had to. Then Hump is the problem no way anyone is taking him unless the third goes with him and no way he's making more then 3 mil anywhere. The one thing we could do is if we can manage the Yi trade and my other theory about gving Hump a job in Proky's co. deosn't work, then do we S&T Favors, Hump, and our late first (I think we might buy #23 so include that or #27) for Bosh and #13.

Yeah I want #13 too because TOR knows they are losing him for nothing so why give up that much.

[enetric]

Does anyone understand the ass clown today?

Basically a bunch of rumors now being reported to be nonsense they he didnt like make him trust Thorn...LESS rather than more?

Basically this guy lives to be a whinny girl and looks for bizarre angles to validate himself.

E, I must ask that you not refer to said poster as "ass clown". Please note that even though he may disagree with you or many others, whether it's to a close or very far extent, he is a Nets fan. I also ask that you use the ignore function.

Sure no problem, I can stop referring to him as an ass clown. Or, yes...I can actually just ignore the ass clown. But said "ass clown" poster isnt a Nets fan. He is a guy who was banned once before and he is trolling. So...I guess you should probably look into it. Is he a Nets fan? Or, an as clown?

Thanks Rich...