The Official Trade Proposal Thread (Not Including Melo)

[Preludepunk27]

I would say more Nash-like potential in his prime and the right system. Rondo is much stronger than people thing. They both have very good court vision but Curry is a better ball handler.

Curry is fancy but plays so controlled just like Nash does.

Oh well, I hate that we're bad trade partners with GSW cause I'd love to get him. Davidson was my colleges 2nd rival (Elon) during the Curry era. We always lock him down then he'd light it up in the last 2 minutes and blow our minds. Would love to see him in a Nets uni.

Unless they want cap space, their own pick back or Harris (clearly don't need him), they would laugh at us unless we brought in a 3rd or 4th team. It's possible though even though any GSW fan here would hate us forever just for thinking it could happen.

[Diop]

Would you guys be interested in G Wallace?
What would you offer?

With Tyrus out, someone from our board suggested Murphy and 1st for Wallace.
I think MJ has been insisting on a bigger return for crash though.

[Jersey Generals]

No interest, does nothing for the Nets.

[Netaman]

Would you guys be interested in G Wallace?
What would you offer?

With Tyrus out, someone from our board suggested Murphy and 1st for Wallace.
I think MJ has been insisting on a bigger return for crash though.

I would do it. Still gives us flexibility to get Melo if we want to keep that door open (basically subs Wallace for Rip) - and IMO Wallace is as good as any of the free agents out there this offseason. Not to mention that he's only got 1 more year left. I'd much prefer Wallace for 1 year to giving Jeff Green or David West a fat deal.

Obviously depends on the pick. I would do the Lakers or Rockets pick, not NJ or GSW '12.

Favors/Wallace/Brook would be a very exciting front court. The rebounding abilities at the 3/4 would definitely make up for Lopez. Back court would need some work, starting with DH.

Not sure how this would effect the Melo trade but if the Nuggs get desperate for Favors then they would probably have to take back Petro (or God willingly Outlaw).

[vincecarter4pres]

No interest, does nothing for the Nets.

[NJD]

No interest, does nothing for the Nets.

do it in a heartbeat

[Netaman]

I know many here don't want Wallace but I think there is a deal that makes sense. #1 reason why? I think he is just as good as any free agent available in the offseason (West and Green being the top 2) and he will be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper with only 1 year left on his contract after this one. Murphy is not going to expire without BK bringing in a player/players, and none of the players BK brings in will sign for less then 2 or 3 additional years. There's a 95% chance he gets traded within the next 2 weeks. Main point being I don't think he's going to keep a massive TE in his pocket to go for Paul so the next best thing next year is an expiring deal.

On the court Lopez/Favors/Wallace would be a VERY solid front line. Favors and Wallace have a chance to be elite rebounders/defenders at their respective positions and would go a very long way to filling in the voids of Brook's weaknesses. I think Wallace is the exact kind of player Avery could get the most out of.

Here's a trade a posted on the trade board on someone else's thread. Within the thread both Portland fans and Bobcat fans said they would do it. To me there 3 reasons why this trade would be very good from a Nets standpoint. (analysis below)

taking on Roy is a non-starter. Way too uncertain.
Here's a simplified version I'd do as a Nets fan. Might need to sweeten with another pick for Charlotte.

Nets trade - Harris, Murphy
Nets receive - Wallace, Miller

Portland trades - Miller, 1st round pick
Portland receives - Harris, Graham

Charlotte trades - Wallace
Charlotte receives - Murphy, Por 1st

(http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4dsbhpe)

#1 both players we are getting back would have expiring contracts going into next season, meaning roughly 19 mil expiring as DWill and CP3 hit FA.

#2 this would improve our team, probably make the playoffs next year, thereby making us a much more enviable location for a star in the 2012 offseason, especially with Brooklyn right there on the horizon. Miller is the exact kind of leader this team needs and the exact kind of PG that would help Lopez and Favors grow.

#3 despite the fact that we would be less inclined to go down that road, we would still be able to make the best offer for Melo assuming Denver comes crawling back (imagine Miller filling Chauncey's place in the deal and GW filling Rip's). Obviously if Denver comes back to us we will be in a much stronger negotiating position then the last time. If they have already made/make overtures at any point soon then we probably don't make this trade to begin with but assuming there is radio silence and we do this proposed trade even if they call us at the 12th hour of the trade deadline we still have enough expiring contracts between Hump, Sasha, and Ross to put together a major cap savings offer. Since we would be dealing from a stronger position I would make them take back one of Petro or Outlaw and I would make them choose between the NJN 2011 first and Favors. Not both. Who knows? Since they wanted AI maybe there is a way to send them GW as part of the package so they can stay somewhat competitive? Allows them to save a little face since they wouldn't be too terrible losing Melo. (Not sure what the restrictions would be on trading GW as a newly acquired player so that might throw a wrench into the plans). Bottomline - the options and assets are still there to get it done - though our front-court would likely feature both Melo and Wallace.

Anyways here's our roster proj going forward for the next few months if we do my proposed trade:

PG - Miller / Farmar
SG - Morrow / Vujacic
SF - Wallace / Outlaw / James
PF - Favors / Hump
C - Lopez / Petro

After the season Vujacic/Hump will be replaced by our 2 first round picks (we could go BPA with both). I would honestly try to trade Hump at the deadline because I think we could definitely get a top 25 pick for him (or an unrestricted pick next year) and I think it's highly likely he gets more then $20 mil in FA and I would not give that to him. In the offseason we could desperately try to get rid of Outlaw/Petro at all costs seeing as they would be the only significant contracts on our books beyond 2012 (come on new cba - give us a one time buyout clause!)

thoughts?

[vincecarter4pres]

Wallace is SO overrated.

Go ask the Charlotte fans what they think of him right now.

Besides their emotional attachment to him, if you read between the lines(or in some cases they say it blatantly)they would take an expiring and a late 1st for him because they said he's been that bad.

I've only seen him maybe 5 times this year and didn't realize he has fallen off that much, and it's hard to tell from box scores and his raw stat lines, but from what a lot of them say he's a shell of himself and if you look at his advanced stats they are just putrid for a player of his supposed caliber and the worst of his career.

Add to this, I would like to reiterate, IMHO, Wallace has always been epically overrated. He's a great complimentary guy, a great role player, but he's not even close to a star and he has been heavily overused his entire tenure in Charlotte.

Don't be fooled, this guy is fool's gold and shouldn't be more then your 4th option.

[Netaman]

that's a possibility. I haven't watched a Bobcat game outside of when they play the Nets...well, ever. I know he plays a ton of minutes which obviously inflates his stats. Against us he always seems to be pretty solid - not an all star level player by any means but a very good version of what we were all hoping for from Outlaw.

[vincecarter4pres]

Well, I would say he's a very good player, but he's not a star and not a leader.

He makes absolutely zero sense for this team right now as is.

Players of his skill level and caliber become available 10 times a season, there's no reason to rush into band aid fixes to senselessly pile up wins until we go from a likely top 5 pick to the 10th and stick ourselves dead into no man's land for the future.

An absolute hell no to Crash!

[Netaman]

We're already in dead man's land, along with every other team that doesn't have bonafide an elite player.

I know I sound like a broken record but the best chance at getting an elite player in the next 2 years is by convincing them to sign on the line - not through the draft. The draft is way too much of a crapshoot. Many drafts don't have any elite players, and the ones that do typically see elite players off the board by the second pick.

Deron Williams, CP3, and the player who will remain nameless in this thread are/going to be available over these next 18 months. The commonality between all of them is a desire to go to a team that can give them an opportunity to win. The key is going to be assembling a roster that gives off the appearance of competitiveness without being financially inflexible. That will be a far bigger draw then an accumulation of young assets - or having the 5th pick as opposed to the 10th.

[vincecarter4pres]

We're already in dead man's land, along with every other team that doesn't have bonafide an elite player.

I know I sound like a broken record but the best chance at getting an elite player in the next 2 years is by convincing them to sign on the line - not through the draft. The draft is way too much of a crapshoot. Many drafts don't have any elite players, and the ones that do typically see elite players off the board by the second pick.

Deron Williams, CP3, and the player who will remain nameless in this thread are/going to be available over these next 18 months. The commonality between all of them is a desire to go to a team that can give them an opportunity to win. The key is going to be assembling a roster that gives off the appearance of competitiveness without being financially inflexible. That will be a far bigger draw then an accumulation of young assets - or having the 5th pick as opposed to the 10th.

So let me get this straight, the draft is a crap shoot and the 5th pick isn't an improvement over the 10th pick as an asset to trade or increment of better chance to land either a franchise player or a more desirable one in trade, but collecting a bunch of overrated, glorified role players is going to seduce CP3 into coming to this storied franchise?

Give me a break.

Get Granger, LaMarcus Aldridge and O.J. Mayo, players like them, somehow keep the cap room and assets to deal on top of that and then maybe you persuade Chris Paul, or Deron Williams to come here.

Chris Paul isn't sitting around the dinner table with his wife saying, "Damn honey, things are so bad basketball wise here, but you know who I'm dying to play with? Gerald Wallace! Oh, and Andris Biedrins! I heard the Nyets are going to trade for them! Plus they have Travis Outlaw! I think you better call your cousin Lisa and start asking her about her neighborhood in Hunterdon County. Championship!"

Look at most elite teams in the league. Where has their franchise player come from more often then not?

You guessed it...

[Netaman]

We're already in dead man's land, along with every other team that doesn't have bonafide an elite player.

I know I sound like a broken record but the best chance at getting an elite player in the next 2 years is by convincing them to sign on the line - not through the draft. The draft is way too much of a crapshoot. Many drafts don't have any elite players, and the ones that do typically see elite players off the board by the second pick.

Deron Williams, CP3, and the player who will remain nameless in this thread are/going to be available over these next 18 months. The commonality between all of them is a desire to go to a team that can give them an opportunity to win. The key is going to be assembling a roster that gives off the appearance of competitiveness without being financially inflexible. That will be a far bigger draw then an accumulation of young assets - or having the 5th pick as opposed to the 10th.

So let me get this straight, the draft is a crap shoot and the 5th pick isn't an improvement over the 10th pick as an asset to trade or increment of better chance to land either a franchise player or a more desirable one in trade, but collecting a bunch of overrated, glorified role players is going to seduce CP3 into coming to this storied franchise?

Give me a break.

Get Granger, LaMarcus Aldridge and O.J. Mayo, players like them, somehow keep the cap room and assets to deal on top of that and then maybe you persuade Chris Paul, or Deron Williams to come here.

Chris Paul isn't sitting around the dinner table with his wife saying, "Damn honey, things are so bad basketball wise here, but you know who I'm dying to play with? Gerald Wallace! Oh, and Andris Biedrins! I heard the Nyets are going to trade for them! Plus they have Travis Outlaw! I think you better call your cousin Lisa and start asking her about her neighborhood in Hunterdon County. Championship!"

Look at most elite teams in the league. Where has their franchise player come from more often then not?

You guessed it...

Perhaps my talent judgement of Wallace as a player is off. As I stated before that's wholly possible because I don't see him play more then a couple times a year. Considering his contract is half that of Granger's I'd considered them somewhat close in value, though looking at that deeper it was obviously way off because Granger is that much better a player.

The premise of the point still remains. Chris Paul isn't sitting around anywhere discussing players, but if you think the Knicks haven't made themselves FAR MORE desirable as a destination based on their semi-success this year then your crazy. This is a perception league and the vision of most of the best players in this league rarely expands past tonight and tomorrow. Hence why we were almost forced to take on RIP. Forget the players names mentioned, being a competitive team on the rise is much more important to attract a big free agent then where our draft pick is.

As far as the draft goes obviously 5 is better then 10, my point is we're not getting a franchise player at either spot. We are already in dead man's land.

I agree with you that looking around the league, the top teams have acquired their top players through the draft. The problem is where are all the top players acquired?

Lebron - #1
Howard - #1
Rose - #1
CP3 - #3
DWill - #2
Duncan - #1
Melo - #3
Shaq - #1
Durant - #2
Kidd - #2

At first glance Kobe, Dirk, Wade, Nash, and KG are the only franchise players that were drafted outside the top 3 in the last decade+. Kobe & KG were HS players, Dirk was obviously one the first big international success stories. Wade was in perhaps the best draft ever. I don't know how many elite players will come out of the next 2 drafts. I do know that 3 will have the chance to change teams out of the above list.

*I might be missing some players b/c I chose the 'franchise' players I could think of off the top of my head.

[vincecarter4pres]

Perhaps my talent judgement of Wallace as a player is off. As I stated before that's wholly possible because I don't see him play more then a couple times a year. Considering his contract is half that of Granger's I'd considered them somewhat close in value, though looking at that deeper it was obviously way off because Granger is that much better a player.

Half of Granger's?
He's paid nearly the same per year.

The premise of the point still remains. Chris Paul isn't sitting around anywhere discussing players, but if you think the Knicks haven't made themselves FAR MORE desirable as a destination based on their semi-success this year then your crazy. This is a perception league and the vision of most of the best players in this league rarely expands past tonight and tomorrow. Hence why we were almost forced to take on RIP.

BS, BS, BS!!!
The Knicks are attractive because they have a bonafide star, pretty much a top ten player. They have a coach player's like to play for, cap space and are in one of the greatest cities in the world which provides unparalleled marketing opportunites.
The Knicks are not attractive because of Raymond Felton, Landry Fields and Turiaf.

And we were "almost forced to take on Rip" because of Leon Rose and satisfying soft ass Chauncey Billups from crying into his Iphone because he would have to fly his daughters out to NJ first class on weekends for two months of their life...

Who knows if Melo even approved of Rip's cap crippling deal?

Forget the players names mentioned, being a competitive team on the rise is much more important to attract a big free agent then where our draft pick is.

But those draft picks can be an end to a means.
So you trade for Wallace now, he's just good enough to take us to 31 wins instead of 25 and we go from the 5th pick to the 11.
Then Danny Granger becomes available on draft night and Bird won't take the 11th pick for him, but he would have taken the 5th and the GSW pick and add to this we would have $18 million locked up in Crash and Outlaw, making it impossible for us to reasonably deal for Granger anyway.
This is just one of a million examples as to why it's (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

As far as the draft goes obviously 5 is better then 10, my point is we're not getting a franchise player at either spot. We are already in dead man's land.

You keep saying this, but you're wrong.
No man's land is middling talent that occasionally makes the 8th seed after overachieving and winds up late lotto at the end of most seasons.
Top 5 gives a much better chance at jumping into top 3 and just an overall better chance at a franchise guy, plus an infinitely better trade asset.
You think Boston would have been able to acquire Ray Allen with the 11th pick that summer to form their Big 3?

I agree with you that looking around the league, the top teams have acquired their top players through the draft. The problem is where are all the top players acquired?

Lebron - #1
Howard - #1
Rose - #1
CP3 - #3 WRONG
DWill - #2 WRONG
Duncan - #1
Melo - #3
Shaq - #1
Durant - #2
Kidd - #2

At first glance Kobe, Dirk, Wade, Nash, and KG are the only franchise players that were drafted outside the top 3 in the last decade+. Kobe & KG were HS players, Dirk was obviously one the first big international success stories. Wade was in perhaps the best draft ever. I don't know how many elite players will come out of the next 2 drafts. I do know that 3 will have the chance to change teams out of the above list.

*I might be missing some players b/c I chose the 'franchise' players I could think of off the top of my head.

Brandon Roy - 6xth overall
Chris Paul - 4th overall
Russell Westbrook - 4th overall
Dwyane Wade - 5th overall
Ray Allen - 5th overall

There aren't too many franchise guys in the league anyway, every team does not have one.

But the point being, at this point in this franchise's life, this is not the time to abandon a shot at one for a bunch of role players so we can go for the even bigger crap shoot, the true crap shoot and that is hoping for one of literally 3 franchise players to sign here, who may or may not even make it to free agency in two years in the first place, who again, are not going to be wowed by overrated players like Gerald Wallace, they are going to want to play with other true stars.

Your thinking is completely backwards.

Add to this, what is the problem with most of them coming out of the top3 picks?

We just had a top 3 pick, who although raw, has shown immense flashes of potential... Oh, and guess what? His trade value is through the roof, other GM's pine for him and he was almost the centerpiece of a trade for... Guess what? A franchise player...

Back to the above point, that being we are in a GREAT position to have another top 3 pick and another shot at a franchise guy, whether that be Kyrie Irving, Perry Jones, or trading that top pick for Chris Paul and then trading for another straight up star using Favors and then filling out the roster with high level role players like Gerald Wallace with a plethora of future picks.

All that is compromised if we deal for middling players now, gain meaningless wins and lose desperately needed draft position, no matter how the pick is ultimately used.

Get it now?

[Jersey Generals]

Trading for a middling player right now would be the same thing as trading for Troy Murphy last summer. The cap space is more important, as long as its not blown on Travis Outlaw again. Now, that's not to say you don't make a trade if its an absolute homerun, but Gerald Wallace is nowhere near that kind of player.

[vincecarter4pres]

Trading for a middling player right now would be the same thing as trading for Troy Murphy last summer. The cap space is more important, as long as its not blown on Travis Outlaw again. Now, that's not to say you don't make a trade if its an absolute homerun, but Gerald Wallace is nowhere near that kind of player.

Footnotes FTW.

[Netaman]

Half of Granger's?
He's paid nearly the same per year.

Half in total, you know exactly what I meant. Wallace is off the cap the year CP3 and Dwill go into free agency. I have already agreed with you that Wallce is not the player that is worth pursuing. I incorrectly viewed his ability as a player in the class of borderline stars like Granger.

I'm not advocating trading for role players in any way. The more I looked at Wallace the more I realized he is a lot like Devin Harris, in the sense that if you don't watch him a lot you could perceive him to be a borderline all star when he is really a glorified role player.

BS, BS, BS!!!
The Knicks are attractive because they have a bonafide star, pretty much a top ten player. They have a coach player's like to play for, cap space and are in one of the greatest cities in the world which provides unparalleled marketing opportunites.
The Knicks are not attractive because of Raymond Felton, Landry Fields and Turiaf.

Agreed. I am not advocating making a deal for Felton, Fields or Turiaf. In fact that's EXACTLY what I want to avoid. I'm advocating trading for a borderline star who's contract allows us to maintain flexibility to get one of the 3 stars out there.

Obviously nobody as good as Amare is available. Iguadala's deal is too long but Granger is good enough to fit the bill. I know you're an advocate for trading for him so if you could just get the name "Gerald Wallace" out of your head we're saying the same thing.

And we were "almost forced to take on Rip" because of Leon Rose and satisfying soft ass Chauncey Billups from crying into his Iphone because he would have to fly his daughters out to NJ first class on weekends for two months of their life...

Who knows if Melo even approved of Rip's cap crippling deal?

I think we can assume that Melo's agent's desires are an extension of his. I'd be willing to bet that Melo probably thought it would be better to have Rip playing next to him then Vujacic or Morrow and certainly not in favor of just having more cap flexibility. Obviously assuming his opinion is pure speculation but I'd be willing to bet that if he didn't want to play with Rip, that part of the trade would not have been in discussion.

But those draft picks can be an end to a means.
So you trade for Wallace now, he's just good enough to take us to 31 wins instead of 25 and we go from the 5th pick to the 11.
Then Danny Granger becomes available on draft night and Bird won't take the 11th pick for him, but he would have taken the 5th and the GSW pick and add to this we would have $18 million locked up in Crash and Outlaw, making it impossible for us to reasonably deal for Granger anyway.
This is just one of a million examples as to why it's (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

The draft picks can be a means to an end. I don't disagree there, nor am I saying we should blow them all for no reason. Again I'm looking to do a deal for the right player, not just anyone, and Gerald Wallace was a miscalculation.

You keep saying this, but you're wrong.
No man's land is middling talent that occasionally makes the 8th seed after overachieving and winds up late lotto at the end of most seasons.
Top 5 gives a much better chance at jumping into top 3 and just an overall better chance at a franchise guy, plus an infinitely better trade asset.
You think Boston would have been able to acquire Ray Allen with the 11th pick that summer to form their Big 3?

Brandon Roy - 6xth overall
Chris Paul - 4th overall
Russell Westbrook - 4th overall
Dwyane Wade - 5th overall
Ray Allen - 5th overall

There aren't too many franchise guys in the league anyway, every team does not have one.

But the point being, at this point in this franchise's life, this is not the time to abandon a shot at one for a bunch of role players so we can go for the even bigger crap shoot, the true crap shoot and that is hoping for one of literally 3 franchise players to sign here, who may or may not even make it to free agency in two years in the first place, who again, are not going to be wowed by overrated players like Gerald Wallace, they are going to want to play with other true stars.

Your thinking is completely backwards.

Add to this, what is the problem with most of them coming out of the top3 picks?

The part of your post that I bolded is what I think is irrelevant to this discussion. We are not talking about a long term plan to build a team from square 1. We have 2 massive foundation pieces at the 4 and 5. We are talking about a plan for the next 18 months. You continue to ignore the main point of my argument. There are 3 star players who will be deciding their futures via trade/free agency over the course of time where there will be 2 drafts conducted. We currently have as many or more assets built up then any other team to get one of them - more important then that we need 1 of them to WANT to be here.

As we are seeing with Melo their desires will hold a massive influence over their final destination.

We just had a top 3 pick, who although raw, has shown immense flashes of potential... Oh, and guess what? His trade value is through the roof, other GM's pine for him and he was almost the centerpiece of a trade for... Guess what? A franchise player...

Back to the above point, that being we are in a GREAT position to have another top 3 pick and another shot at a franchise guy, whether that be Kyrie Irving, Perry Jones, or trading that top pick for Chris Paul and then trading for another straight up star using Favors and then filling out the roster with high level role players like Gerald Wallace with a plethora of future picks.

All that is compromised if we deal for middling players now, gain meaningless wins and lose desperately needed draft position, no matter how the pick is ultimately used.

Get it now?

I know we have a guy who was top 3 pick and potential franchise player. I also know what it cost to get him and accept the fact that the current management team is not willing to pay that cost next year. We know what Billy King is capable of and he is not sitting by idly. He is going to try to make this team better and he is going to give out money to someone to try to win more games.

Nowhere have I advocated trading our pick this year (which is already a lock to be in the top 10). Nowhere is this draft projected to be particularly strong. My main disagreement here is that we are already outside of the top 3 (4) and in all likelihood will get further from Kyrie Irving, not closer.

And lastly again the fact that games lost doesn't even necessarily translate to draft pick because of a totally unjust lottery. Wasn't Philly 6th or 7th worst in the NBA last year yet ended up picking ahead of one of the worst teams ever? Washington won just 1 game less then Philly and ended up first. The draft lottery is a complete crapshoot.


BOTTOMLINE -

We can worry about getting as many assets as possible but the fact of the matter remains if players don't want to come here because we suck, we aren't going to get them no matter how good our offers are. It's that simple. This doesn't mean we need to do stupid things to get better. Doing stupid things is never good. We need to make smart deals, keep our financial flexibility, and start trying to become a better team. That is what will attract better players.

If we accept the fact that this year's draft pick is relatively decided, somewhere between 5-10 depending on the lottery, then we are talking about how we should approach 2011-2012.

My 3 primary goals going into next season would be
1- maintain cap space to acquire a max player
2- not trade any of our major assets (Favors, our top 10 pick this year) unless it's for said max player
3- try to win the most possible games under the above conditions

[Netaman]

Trading for a middling player right now would be the same thing as trading for Troy Murphy last summer. The cap space is more important, as long as its not blown on Travis Outlaw again. Now, that's not to say you don't make a trade if its an absolute homerun, but Gerald Wallace is nowhere near that kind of player.

Footnotes FTW.

god damn it. why couldn't I have seen this before I spent 45 minutes multi-quoting.

I agree with this post 100000000%.

[Preludepunk27]

Hey I live in NC. I love Gerald Wallace. I've been a huge fan of his for 5-6 years now. My friends and I still think he's the scariest looking dude in the NBA.

With that said, as much as I love how tough he plays, I don't want him on the Nets. He gets in this week long stretches where he is a damn chucker and it drives me wild. On a good team, Gerald should be the #3 or #4 scorer. You know you're in trouble when he is your #1 or #2 like he's been on Charlotte for the past half a decade.

Not trying to bash him too much cause I'm still a big fan of his, but he is what he is. He's a very athletic defender with ok offensive skills. Lets not get ahead of ourselves and talk about trading for him though hoping he'd make this team significantly better. If at all, he may win us 2-3 more games if we basically gave Charlotte ONLY cap space like Murphy.

I just don't think he's right for this team at all at this point. I'm more than happy right now going with the roster we got the rest of the season. Buy our Murphy or trade him for whatever you can get that doesn't kill our flexibility.

[8 Mile Ilic]

Let's get some OJ Mayo *****es