2023-24 Trade Deadline Thread

[Netaman]

I don’t want you or anyone to think I’m personally campaigning for LaVine on some Joe Johnson, Billy King level shenanigans, but it’s also worth noting, my stance is the Bulls would not be amendable to adding huge value in the ilk of picks to dump him, if the only value returned was slight salary relief and B/C rate players like Cam J and DFS.


But that’s why Marks will probably focus on a different move, or just selling off everyone besides Bridges and probably Clax and Cam T for picks, because our own picks are sunken cost at this point.

I kind of liked Lavine last year at a point (think it was right after he dropped like 40 on us lol), I dont remember if it was before or after KD, so I'm not totally opposed. He is the dynamic scorer who can close games they need. But with where things have shifted over the course of this year and the way his value has tanked, and the new CBA restrictions, I think it's just a really really under water asset.

he's kind of like the modern day atlanta joe johnson, but since nets right now dont have a deron williams (at the time considered a franchise player) or billy king, there needs to be more incentive than just swapping $. also enough other options seemingly available that marks likely lands a different one.

You're right in that he's at a distressed level, however, that's why I think it could be a good direction. If all it takes is expiring contracts, why not? To wait on Mitchell? With a rising cap, if you can get all star level production from LaVine, his contract will actually be solid and will take you through all the years the Rockets control the picks.

imo in the league you have your generational stars (i.e. Bron, KD, Curry, Jokic, etc.), elite (i.e. Tatum, Davis, George) and then a semi-interchangeable group where team situation, roster, etc. affects their impact and perception. I don't think there is a ton separating LaVine and Mitchell. The former has actually been the more efficient scorer while the latter has been on far better teams where he's been mostly the second best player and it was really only until this year where he's had ultra impact.

I see a bigger difference between lavine and mitchell. i mean since garland went out mitchell has been a near 30ppg player and lavine is under 20ppg this year. mitchell made 3rd team all nba last year. and i dont think we've seen his best yet, i think he's a better version of brunson. obviously the top guys are 1st/2nd team all nba players that just arent available. i think we've probably seen lavine's best because his athleticism has probably already peaked and he's a more athleticism dependent player.

i think lavine and murray/herro are more closely comparable, but the latter 2 are paid 27-28m per year where lavine is 43m+ per year going forward.

[vincecarter4pres]

I kind of liked Lavine last year at a point (think it was right after he dropped like 40 on us lol), I dont remember if it was before or after KD, so I'm not totally opposed. He is the dynamic scorer who can close games they need. But with where things have shifted over the course of this year and the way his value has tanked, and the new CBA restrictions, I think it's just a really really under water asset.

he's kind of like the modern day atlanta joe johnson, but since nets right now dont have a deron williams (at the time considered a franchise player) or billy king, there needs to be more incentive than just swapping $. also enough other options seemingly available that marks likely lands a different one.

You're right in that he's at a distressed level, however, that's why I think it could be a good direction. If all it takes is expiring contracts, why not? To wait on Mitchell? With a rising cap, if you can get all star level production from LaVine, his contract will actually be solid and will take you through all the years the Rockets control the picks.

imo in the league you have your generational stars (i.e. Bron, KD, Curry, Jokic, etc.), elite (i.e. Tatum, Davis, George) and then a semi-interchangeable group where team situation, roster, etc. affects their impact and perception. I don't think there is a ton separating LaVine and Mitchell. The former has actually been the more efficient scorer while the latter has been on far better teams where he's been mostly the second best player and it was really only until this year where he's had ultra impact.

I see a bigger difference between lavine and mitchell. i mean since garland went out mitchell has been a near 30ppg player and lavine is under 20ppg this year. mitchell made 3rd team all nba last year. and i dont think we've seen his best yet, i think he's a better version of brunson. obviously the top guys are 1st/2nd team all nba players that just arent available. i think we've probably seen lavine's best because his athleticism has probably already peaked and he's a more athleticism dependent player.

i think lavine and murray/herro are more closely comparable, but the latter 2 are paid 27-28m per year where lavine is 43m+ per year going forward.

Going to have to agree with Netaman here, King.

I do think Lavine is a good player, but pretty much directly comparable to Murray and Herro, but he cost almost double per year and is more injury prone.

But I have thought about your sentiment myself often and referred to the similar thinking in the prior posts. Lavine could be a great stopgap to bridge the pick years if management isn’t keen on chasing a guy like Mitchell at high asset cost again.

Also I still stand by my comments from the past, Mitchell was the best player on the Jazz all those years.

[Netaman]

Piecing everything together Murray still makes by far the most sense for nets. If Lakers have been most aggressive (only 1 FRP to trade) but taking back Russell is a deal breaker for Hawks, then a Nets offer continues to be very easy to construct.

2 protected FRPs + some combo of filler either including or via 3rd team from Dinwiddie/DFS/Royce.

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[vincecarter4pres]

Piecing everything together Murray still makes by far the most sense for nets. If Lakers have been most aggressive (only 1 FRP to trade) but taking back Russell is a deal breaker for Hawks, then a Nets offer continues to be very easy to construct.

2 protected FRPs + some combo of filler either including or via 3rd team from Dinwiddie/DFS/Royce.

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Just realized Russell has a player option this summer, don’t like the idea of him at all anymore unless he came straight up for Dinwiddie.

[Netaman]

Just realized Russell has a player option this summer, don’t like the idea of him at all anymore unless he came straight up for Dinwiddie.

i just dont think he'd move the needle any more than dinwiddie. similarly negative value defender, probably a little better offensive creator. but i think LAL is right to not trade him for a lateral move like dinwiddie.

so i see little motivation to be the LAL 3rd wheel if they need to find an expiring contract instead of Russell to send to ATL. it's time to do better than the mediocrity we had pre-KD. they aren't 22/24 year olds with upside any more. it's crazy that Russell is still only the same age as Mitchell/Murray, but I think those guys clearly are a tier/tiers above him.

[vincecarter4pres]

Just realized Russell has a player option this summer, don’t like the idea of him at all anymore unless he came straight up for Dinwiddie.

i just dont think he'd move the needle any more than dinwiddie. similarly negative value defender, probably a little better offensive creator. but i think LAL is right to not trade him for a lateral move like dinwiddie.

so i see little motivation to be the LAL 3rd wheel if they need to find an expiring contract instead of Russell to send to ATL. it's time to do better than the mediocrity we had pre-KD. they aren't 22/24 year olds with upside any more. it's crazy that Russell is still only the same age as Mitchell/Murray, but I think those guys clearly are a tier/tiers above him.

I just like the idea of jettisoning Dinwiddie now. Something is up with him off the court to do with the front office, or lockerroom, or staff and he’s playing like a Southern fried bitch.


I get he’s a human being with emotions and loyalties and the such and he has been jerked around a lot in Brooklyn, so I’m not mad at Spencer the person, but if I’m Marks, I make sure to ship him out this deadline.

[Netaman]

Just realized Russell has a player option this summer, don’t like the idea of him at all anymore unless he came straight up for Dinwiddie.

i just dont think he'd move the needle any more than dinwiddie. similarly negative value defender, probably a little better offensive creator. but i think LAL is right to not trade him for a lateral move like dinwiddie.

so i see little motivation to be the LAL 3rd wheel if they need to find an expiring contract instead of Russell to send to ATL. it's time to do better than the mediocrity we had pre-KD. they aren't 22/24 year olds with upside any more. it's crazy that Russell is still only the same age as Mitchell/Murray, but I think those guys clearly are a tier/tiers above him.

I just like the idea of jettisoning Dinwiddie now. Something is up with him off the court to do with the front office, or lockerroom, or staff and he’s playing like a Southern fried bitch.


I get he’s a human being with emotions and loyalties and the such and he has been jerked around a lot in Brooklyn, so I’m not mad at Spencer the person, but if I’m Marks, I make sure to ship him out this deadline.

agreed. i've always hated the complaining to officials on every play but now that has appeared to enter into the equation with brooklyn. last summer there were rumors both sides were considering an extension. obviously the year hasnt gone the way anyone wanted it to go so it seems clear both sides should go their separate ways.

[vincecarter4pres]

It would be ideal if this FO and scouting team could figure out who the next Murray, or White, or Dinwiddie, Lowry, etc. is.

Somewhere in the league there is the next guy in his second or third underperforming, underwhelming season on the verge of a breakout, and maybe his team doesn’t know it, or can’t afford him the playing time or next contract when he does, and maybe would deal said player for DFS, or the Philly pick.

[TheNetsFan]

It would be ideal if this FO and scouting team could figure out who the next Murray, or White, or Dinwiddie, Lowry, etc. is.

Somewhere in the league there is the next guy in his second or third underperforming, underwhelming season on the verge of a breakout, and maybe his team doesn’t know it, or can’t afford him the playing time or next contract when he does, and maybe would deal said player for DFS, or the Philly pick.

Jaden Ivey please.

[Netaman]

It would be ideal if this FO and scouting team could figure out who the next Murray, or White, or Dinwiddie, Lowry, etc. is.

Somewhere in the league there is the next guy in his second or third underperforming, underwhelming season on the verge of a breakout, and maybe his team doesn’t know it, or can’t afford him the playing time or next contract when he does, and maybe would deal said player for DFS, or the Philly pick.

brunson basically. pre-knicks he was basically dinwiddie, then in a feature role he busted out.

im not a super scout but i think herro/murray are the 2 id roll dice on from whats been rumored 'getable'.

simmons was such a big whiff. i was all for it and totally wrong.

[vincecarter4pres]

It would be ideal if this FO and scouting team could figure out who the next Murray, or White, or Dinwiddie, Lowry, etc. is.

Somewhere in the league there is the next guy in his second or third underperforming, underwhelming season on the verge of a breakout, and maybe his team doesn’t know it, or can’t afford him the playing time or next contract when he does, and maybe would deal said player for DFS, or the Philly pick.

Jaden Ivey please.

Is he a point guard?

Regardless if he’s a good buy low Marks should be on it, but I don’t watch any Pistons basketball to even know much about him.

[vincecarter4pres]

It would be ideal if this FO and scouting team could figure out who the next Murray, or White, or Dinwiddie, Lowry, etc. is.

Somewhere in the league there is the next guy in his second or third underperforming, underwhelming season on the verge of a breakout, and maybe his team doesn’t know it, or can’t afford him the playing time or next contract when he does, and maybe would deal said player for DFS, or the Philly pick.

brunson basically. pre-knicks he was basically dinwiddie, then in a feature role he busted out.

im not a super scout but i think herro/murray are the 2 id roll dice on from whats been rumored 'getable'.

simmons was such a big whiff. i was all for it and totally wrong.

Forgot about Brunson entirely, another great example.

The more I think about it, the more I like Murray. Watched him tonight and was fairly impressed. He makes a lot of winning plays, a lot of smart plays, and gives good effort on D. Had some silly mistakes in transition D, but Luka was cooking dudes and Atlanta’s defense is discombobulated when doubling or chasing down the break.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

agree that herro could break out in a bigger, better role.

[vincecarter4pres]

Did anyone see the tweet last night from that Atlanta media/fan account?

It was from months ago, but the kid made a tweet about Murray and Dejounte took offense to it and insta-dm’ed him this crazy toxic wall of text going off on the Hawks organization, teammates and coaching staff about his role and all this other nonsense. It was mildy incoherent and self absorbed, really concerning stuff tbh. Like noon time stamp too, not a drunk rant.

The kid was hanging onto it and said he was probably going to release it after he got traded, but DeJounte’s father made some stupid tweet last night too, and it incensed the kid and he posted it. The media begun running with it shortly after.

The dad deleted his tweet shortly after he posted it, but afaik before the fan account exposed Murray.

Murray also deleted his Twitter account like days after he sent that DM, but the kid had immediately screenshot it.

He’s wanted out pretty much since the summer.

Idk how to feel about it though. Sure pros get upset with their roles and stuff, and yes his role would be way expanded somewhere like here, but it also shows he seems like a delusional diva who can’t play nice with others.

Atlanta is in a bit of a pickle, feels like Trae will be dealt by next deadline at latest.

[Netaman]

Did anyone see the tweet last night from that Atlanta media/fan account?

It was from months ago, but the kid made a tweet about Murray and Dejounte took offense to it and insta-dm’ed him this crazy toxic wall of text going off on the Hawks organization, teammates and coaching staff about his role and all this other nonsense. It was mildy incoherent and self absorbed, really concerning stuff tbh. Like noon time stamp too, not a drunk rant.

The kid was hanging onto it and said he was probably going to release it after he got traded, but DeJounte’s father made some stupid tweet last night too, and it incensed the kid and he posted it. The media begun running with it shortly after.

The dad deleted his tweet shortly after he posted it, but afaik before the fan account exposed Murray.

Murray also deleted his Twitter account like days after he sent that DM, but the kid had immediately screenshot it.

He’s wanted out pretty much since the summer.

Idk how to feel about it though. Sure pros get upset with their roles and stuff, and yes his role would be way expanded somewhere like here, but it also shows he seems like a delusional diva who can’t play nice with others.

Atlanta is in a bit of a pickle, feels like Trae will be dealt by next deadline at latest.

i saw some of that and yes, not ideal, but i think all these guys have done it. kd obviously did it (i know murray isn't kd's talent). jaylen brown would have come with worse distractions (imo). remember that was one of the big reasons DLo left LAL originally, and off court he hasnt seem like a problem anywhere since.

one of the biggest appeals to mitchell (and bridges for that matter) is that he seems more in the brunson mold of a winning player. herro too for that matter. so those types along with the right coach/org seem very key to how miami has maintained and nyk have rebuilt (though they did also take a gamble on randle that's paid off).

i feel pretty confident marks will have a pretty good read on knowing what he's getting with murray w/ the SAS history. so if they are in fact interested as windhorts/ND have mentioned, and they do eventually get him, ill trust that they think he's more correctable like DLo and not another Kyrie/Harden disaster waiting to happen situation.

btw one check mark in murrays favor is that he's been willing to play out of position and defer to Trae reasonably quietly. Not everyone would do that, especially if it's impacting their performance as it has with Murray. Clearly when Trae was out and he moved back to lead guard he thrived and yet at least publicly he hasnt asked out or seemed to dog it.

[Netaman]

Atlanta is in a bit of a pickle, feels like Trae will be dealt by next deadline at latest.

figured this was worth considering its' own reply.

trae has 2 years after this one, plus an option year (ETO). so things go well and he exercises that either to get a raise or hit FA. if things arent going well with him by next trade deadline and the trade window opens since they will want to maximize his return and it will be hard to do that in the possible walk year before the ETO. he will have a lot more control in where he goes. if things go bad enough the rest of this year, the summer is a possible trae trade window, especially if someone is offering them a 2nd top 10 pick and there are 2 players they like (though i'd call that doubtful since this seems like a weak draft).

they will likely keep their pick this year since they are in top 10 and then i think their next 3 picks (25-27) will be out the door twice unprotected to SAS and once protected to SAC. maybe 4 bc i think SAS gets 2 unprotected + a swap. for the rest of this year though their best outcome is getting as high of a pick as possible.

so net/net this summer is kind of their alamo if they going to try to build a roster and make a run around Trae. They have a top 10 pick plus whatever they can get for Murray. Sndyer is entering year 3. Same with Fields. if things go south again then they have a diminishing asset in trae approaching FA and no picks. their path to continued employment is obviously winning or entering a conscious rebuild asap, at least while quinn has as much protection from his 5 year contract as possible.

on the positive side, jalen johnson looks like a stud and they have some other movable parts (bogs, hunter). So at the draft they should be in position to add something meaningful if they want, or if they love a young guy add another high end young asset that hopefully comes together with trae to keep them out of the lotto and building forward.

now how does all that impact murray?

id imagine their perfect world is to recapture 2 FRPs in the years where they owe their picks outright to SAS, not just swap, which would be 2025/2027 i think. obviously they don't have any takers at 2 FRPs yet so they will ultimate take the best of what they can get.

there isn't a ton of upside to keeping Murray. his value isnt likely change meaningfully, it delays their ability to make follow-up moves that they need to make, and contradicts their likely desire to get a top 5-10 pick this year. If they truly dont have any interest in Russell as a return asset thats interesting, as it would seem to me like the biggest negative is that he might help them win too many games. if he opts in, as an expiring at the draft you would think he's a pretty good trade piece. so that tells me maybe their preference is to do a pseudo rebuild around trae and not go all in with him looking to trade for a 2nd star. which would probably be a smart hedge and save them $. the list of potential stars to add around trae is probably super depressing (jerami grant?).

i dont know their financial situation other than the obvious that it seems like they have been trying to trim costs for a while. so net/net with Murray, it seems like it's time to move on. it didnt work out and every game he helps them win actually possibly hurts their draft capital. so every game they win with him is almost like it's lowering the return they get. which for a few games doesnt matter but if they kept him past the deadline and turned a lotto pick into no pick would be almost more value lost than whatever he brings back. dinwiddie playing like crap is actually probably a positive for them as a filler piece lol.

if im nets and they do in fact like murray (which idk for sure) i think my max offer is the 2025 phoenix pick lotto protected and maybe the 2027 philly pick + dinwiddie. and im thinking DFS can probably bring back a comparable pick to either of those in a separate trade. more ideally it would be just 1 pick and a bunch of seconds. or maybe even Cam T + a first + Dinwiddie. the 2 teams are really good fits for each other because there are a lot of combinations and 3rd team flexibilities that could come into play. if the nets want murray, which they probably should.

[Netaman]

herro vs murray is an interesting debate, and it may be no debate if miami has no interest in trading herro, but if they would trade him for say DFS + Royce, then which player do we like better?

im tempted to lean herro there. i think the shooting is better, he's probably the better culture fit, and he's 3 years younger. i think they are both similarly talented "closer" upgrades for nets, murray the better playmaker/defender.

murray is more of a position fit for what they need and seemingly a lot more available.

for miami, they have jimmy to close, bam, rozier, and robinson. it is possible they are willing to trade herro's offense for some extra defense thinking elite defense is their key to advancing. also saves them $. possible but i wouldnt say probable.

[Netaman]

full article below from post is gated but sounds like lewis is saying nets wont be full sellers (bridges).

royce is interesting because depending on other moves, i could see them wanting to keep him and extend him if they plan to try to win as much as they can and pursue mitchell in the future. his value is probably just 2nds and salary match, though if i could get someone like obi toppin for him id probably do that.

royce would seemingly be solid fit next to Murray, especially if dfs moves elsewhere and Cam Thomas is in the murray deal (which along with the PHI 2027 pick is probably my ideal trade for Murray, but im an avowed cam t doubter).

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[Netaman]

this was 10 days ago but lewis had already reported nets eyeing murray:

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fire it up! cam t seems a bit of a malcontent with his role anyway.



Murray
Royce/Walker
Bridges
CamJ
Clax/Sharpe

DFS offloaded to replace the FRP they send to ATL (replaced by nova Bey off bench).

[vincecarter4pres]

full article below from post is gated but sounds like lewis is saying nets wont be full sellers (bridges).

royce is interesting because depending on other moves, i could see them wanting to keep him and extend him if they plan to try to win as much as they can and pursue mitchell in the future. his value is probably just 2nds and salary match, though if i could get someone like obi toppin for him id probably do that.

royce would seemingly be solid fit next to Murray, especially if dfs moves elsewhere and Cam Thomas is in the murray deal (which along with the PHI 2027 pick is probably my ideal trade for Murray, but im an avowed cam t doubter).

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Member only article so couldn’t read it.

I’m a big Royce fan, especially if DFS is traded, if they can extend him cheaply they should. He’s a well rounded player with good defense and high IQ, if the team improves around him he’s even better when not overburdened as well.

On one hand I think it’s foolish if they didn’t send Bridges to Houston for something like all our picks returned and maybe Cam Whitmore.

On the other hand, that makes me think they know they’re pairing him with an A- tier stud and another guy below him, like a Murray.

Truthfully, I’d so much rather we bottom out with our own picks and Phoenix/Dallas’ picks if that opportunity presented itself. And I’m a huge Mitchell and Bridges fan. But for whatever reasons they will probably never do this…