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Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn

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Post#1 Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:50 pm by N Ireland Nets

I've been growing more and more frustrated by Hump and Evans making it very difficult for us to score and even defend well for a long time now and I believe a big chance is needed outside of any possible trade going down.

I'm going to show examples of why Teletovic should start for us and first thing I'm going to do is look at the difference it makes to the team on the floor when Teletovic is in the game.



1ST POSSESSION





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This first picture is the very 1st possession since Tele entered the game in the 2nd quarter. The first thing you can notice is how Lopez is now very much on his own with room to work in the paint 1 vs 1.

The next thing you notcie is Nelson is wary of D Will on the perimeter and is trying to cut out any potential pass to Lopez but doesn't want to leave Williams on an island so he has to make a decision.

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The ball then goes to Joe Johnson who has the entire paint to attack due to Lopez dropping off. Now Nelson is stuck as to whether he should help Harkless out or stay with D Will on the perimeter.

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Johnson drives on Harkless, Davis doesn't want to leave Tele on the perimeter so he reaches on JJ while Nelson is caught in no mans land as D Will moves to the corner for a potential open look.

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Now Harkless has stayed well with Johnson but due to him attacking the paint, Nelson has collapsed along with Davis to support Harkless on defence with Vucevic moving across the paint on potential help d. Now if Johnson wanted to pass he has a wide open Teletovic, a wide open skip pass to Williams or a risky but perfectly possible pass into Lopez available or to take the contested shot.

Johnson takes the contested shot and makes it but this possession shows how the spacing looked with Teletovic in there. This is a good set to look at because it isn't a normal clearout isolation which leaves both the defender and attacking player on an island to let Joe go to work. This is great because it lets Joe go one vs one while also giving him options to pass to open team mates if he needs or chooses to do so.

VIDEO:







2ND POSSESSION






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Wallace is in the game and as Williams walks up court Wallace clears out from the corner in front of the bench to the near side corner with Lopez and Vucevic again 1 on 1. Williams decides to call a little two man game between himself and Johnson who can be seen running around Tele towards Williams.

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Johnson runs the pick and pop with D Will who begins to drive the lane and pulls up to find an open Johnson. Notice how Davis is still wary of Teletovic's outside threat on the perimeter which keeps him out of the paint.

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Johnson has the open look like seen in the last picture but he decides to drive to get closer to the basket which forces Vucevic to cross the paint to stop Joe's drive and contest the shot with Nelson trying to get back to defend Joe Also. Notice Harkless on this play having to leave Wallace to go help cover Lopez and realise thats a 6'8 guy in Harkless trying to guard a legit 7footer in Lopez while Davis had to stay at home with Tele on the perimeter.

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Johnson misses the shot but Lopez easily grabs the rebound over Harkless with Davis trying to get back to help Harkless out.

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Lopez takes the rebounds and drives back up for the easy put back basket before Davis can alter the shot on the help defence.

VIDEO








3RD POSSESSION





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This play starts with Wallace taking the ball up the floor and passing it off to Teletovic at the top of the 3 point line. Lopez sets a pick on Nelson to try and free up Williams. Notice again the spacing on the floor and how each man has a good deal of room.


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The first pick by Lopez doesn't free up Williams so he spins around to throw a pick on Vucevic to attempt to free up Lopez down low in the paint while again Davis is pre occupied by Tele on the perimeter and Reddick aware and watching what Wallace is doing.

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Lopez then shouts and shows for the ball down low in the paint which makes Nelson and Vucevic battle for position down low ready to stop any entry pass into the post while Williams spins out towards the perimeter with Teletovic moving off the 3 point line

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Williams gets a good pass from Johnson in rhythm just as he gets to the 3 point line, while Teletovic stops his run and adjusts to set a screen stopping Nelson from closing on Williams for the wide open 3 because Reddick can't close the space due to being worried about Wallace in the corner. Once again great spacing, a well ran play which leads to.....

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Splash!!! a perfect 3 point play with Davis having to attempt to close the gap on Williams, Teletovic moves to get great position in case the shots misses.

An all around great play with very good spacing all around.

VIDEO








4TH POSSESSION




This is where it gets interesting. Basically the exact same play as prior is used (thanks a lot Avery) where everything is ran the same up until this point below:

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Williams sets the pick on Vucevic who realises its coming along with Nelson (well of course they would, we just ran the play 30 seconds earlier :lol: ). This time Vucevic gets in a good position so Lopez can't get the entry pass in the low post while Nelson stays with Williams.

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With the play having broken down, D Will runs towards Johnson to receive the ball with Teletovic moving away to the far side of the 3 point line.

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Deron drives towards Teletovic who is going to set the pick for Williams but Nelson calls switch on the defensive side of the ball.

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Teletovic sets himself in position where Williams finds him for an open 3 point attempt with Nelson trying to put him under pressure.

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Teletovic takes the 3 point shot (he hit the rim) in which Nelson puts decent pressure on Teletovic but he still get's there late.

This set shows how the play broke down yet with Teletovic on the floor we ran a quick pick and pop 2 man play between D Will and Tele which led to a decent 3 point look, which normally would've turned into a D Will or JJ iso dribble pull up move.

VIDEO







5TH POSSESSION




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This time Lopez takes up position at the top of the 3 point line after Wallace takes the ball up the floor.

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Lopez dribbles to the left to hand off to Johnson and then screens Reddick.

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The screen doesn't give Johnson much room so he dribbles to the right where Lopez goes to set a pick but flashes towards the basket.

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Harkless collapses on Lopez to prevent the easy 2 point play with Davis also looking to move to protect the paint, so Johnson swings the ball to a wide open Wallace.

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Now its pick your poison time. The ball is in Wallace's hands with Vucevic struggling to get back to defend Lopez, Harkless charging to close the space on Wallace and Davis stuck in between defending Lopez or Teletovic.

This means Wallace has 3 fantastic options, he can shoot the wide open 3, can feed Teletovic for the wide open 3 or he can feed Lopez down low in the paint. So what does he do??

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He looks off Teletovic which sends Davis screaming towards Tele, Harkless is still charging trying to close Wallace's space with Vucevic unable to get back to defend Lopez and Nelson occupied by Williams in the corner leads to an easy dunk for Brook Lopez.

Which all comes about due to the fantastic spacing on the floor and every player being a real threat to score points. Was one of my favourite plays of the night personally.

VIDEO







6TH POSSESSION




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Johnson grabs the rebound and drives up the court. Wallace Teletovic and Williams move accordingly around the perimeter stretching the offence to leave Johnson 1 on 1 versus Reddick. While Lopez sets a minor pick on Nelson.

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Lopez after setting a small pick on Nelson has spun straight towards the basket. Johnson is going to work with Reddick struggling to contain him so Vucevic moves to double Johnson while Wallace, Teletovic and Williams are all set and ready for a possible pass around the perimeter which in turn has created huge space in the paint.

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Johnson spots Lopez steaming like a freight train towards the basket and throws a beautiful no look pass right into Lopez who goes up for the easy dunk. Notice how much space is around the floor with the perimeter all having legit threats on the outside which didn't allow the defence to collapse on the play for fear of a wide open 3 point. Another fantastic offensive set with brilliant play from Johnson and good movement from Lopez.

Straight after this play Orlando called a timeout, take of that what you will...

VIDEO







7TH POSSESSION





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D Will gets the ball from the inbounds, walks up the floor with players moving into position.

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Williams waits for Teletovic to reach the top of the 3 point line and simply passes the ball off to Wallace while changing his pace and sprinting towards the basket. Teletovic moves in behind Nelson to set a pick on him. Also notice Lopez's position just inside the 3 point line, making Vucevic move away from the basket leaving all that space yet again in the paint and all over the court.

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Wallace simply waits for Williams to get beyond Davis and makes a nice pass to the cutting Williams towards the basket with Nelson trying to recover but it's to late with a simple lay up for Williams. Vucevic is no where to be seen due to Lopez hanging around near the 3 point line.

Again another perfect example of space being created by 5 players being on the floor all capable of scoring points and being threats on the offensive side of the floor.

VIDEO




Throughout every possession I've shown, which were the first 7 straight after Teletovic came into the game, clearly show the increase space and room on the floor that each player receives due mainly to Teletovic being a legit threat while on the floor.

He sucked Davis (Orlando's starting PF) out of his comfort zone and to the perimeter which left Lopez along to get to work without being double teamed. The exact same space was afforded to Williams, Wallace and Johnson. Note Wallace who hasn't been playing well for us looking good with some great feeds to Lopez and Williams. Having that little bit more space on the floor clearly made things easier for Wallace and he benefited by getting two simple assists.

Teletovic really has an effect on our offence when he is on the floor without even getting the ball. It's as simple as Teletovic equals more space and bigger passing lanes for a smoother offence.

Here is Teletovic's 5 points he scored last night just to finish off the Teletovic segment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7i8YT3G24


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Now lets compare the previous plays to a few with Hump and Evans. I'll only do a couple from each because Hump is a more athletic version of Evans because they are both offensive liabilities that are just garbage men really on offence.

With them in the game it lets the defence double up on different players leaving either Evans or Hump wide open because they aren't a threat to the defence which in turn lets both center and power forward camp in the paint, decreases the space on the offensive end and decreases the size of the passing lane which leads to increased turn overs.

We'll start with Reggie Evans.


1ST POSSESSION



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So Williams brings the ball up the floor and Johnson moves over towards Williams. Notice Evans camped just outside the paint with Lopez basically in the corner completely out of the play. Wallace is moving towards the 3 point line but doesn't seem involved.


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The play seems to be a bit of a 2 man game between Williams and Johnson to take advantage of the Nets clear advantage size wise at the guard position.

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As soon as the ball is passed to Johnson and he catches the ball, Vucevic jumps out on the double team. Due to the absolutely horrible spacing with Evans standing beside Lopez, Orlando is able to cover Lopez & Evans easily with Wallace open but Harkless waiting to jump across the passing lane. In short it looks like trouble.

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Johnson does well to get the ball back to Williams. Again notice Evans standing without an Orlando player covering him, they have Davis in between Evans and Lopez daring Williams to throw it to Evans due to him not being a threat.

Harkless is in between Wallace and Lopez ready to cut out a pass to Lopez and also close the space on Wallace if the ball is swung to him on the perimeter. What does D Will do??

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Williams forces the pass into Lopez, with Harkless jumping across passing line to deflect the pass, Davis jumped to the right of Lopez in case the pass gets through to defend Lopez, Vucevic is trying to recover to the paint while easily getting across the passing lane blocking any potential pass that could've gone to Evans.

Just an awful possession with little ball movement or player movement in general. The floor spacing was terrible which led to the easy steal. For the entire possession there was never a player in the bottom right corner so we failed to spread the floor and make bigger passing lanes, everything just is cramped down low in the paint.

VIDEO






2ND POSSESSION


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Williams brings the ball up the floor and then gives it to Johnson while setting off. Lopez sets a pick on Nelson to try and free Williams.

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After setting the pick Lopez receives the pass from Johnson. Williams runs a long arc round towards Lopez the ball handler with Evans trying to set a pick on Nelson. Wallace is cutting to the basket to attempt to create space for Williams while also attempting to get an open look running towards the basket. AGAIN, notice the spacing here and so far, not a single player had been in either corner yet, everything is tight and compact.

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Lopez hands the ball off to Williams and immediately sets a pick and flashes towards the rim. Wallace is heading towards the far corner and Evans is standing pat.

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Williams makes a very good pass to Lopez, Davis closes the space down on Lopez forcing him to make a decision. Harkless is thinking about moving into the paint to cover Evans but holds his ground so Evans is currently unguarded.

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Lopez catches the ball an immediately makes a bounce pass to the wide open Evans. Harkless has to close Evans down now to force Evans to make a decision. Reddick steps off Johnson and moves between Johnson and Wallace to attempt to cover both players, he seems in a good position. As you can see our entire team is basically in one side of the floor so passing lanes aren't great right now.

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Evans makes the big skip pass to Johnson, with Reddick now closing JJ down, Harkless begins to rotate towards Wallace. Again all the Nets are still only using half the floor right now with Williams 5 yards outside the 3 point line just out of screenshot.

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Johnson instantly makes the pass to Wallace in the air because the skip pass was quite high so Johnson had to jump. Looking at the situation now, you can see Lopez near the 3 point line, Evans in the paint, Williams outside the 3 point line and everyone pretty much covered.

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Wallace jab steps and tries to drive base line with Harkless staying close by. Vucevic rotates off Evans and sets his feet to take the charge forcing Wallace to try and pass the ball. He attempts to find Williams but it goes straight to Nelson leading to the 2nd turnover in a row straight after the half.

Notice again the awful spacing and lack of floor actually used through out the play.

VIDEO






3RD POSSESSION



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After a fast break and Johnson 3 point miss, Wallace collects the rebound and fires it out to Williams to start the next possession.

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Evans sets a pick and flashes towards the rim which causes nobody to move and everything is as is with Reddick still guarding Williams. Notice Lopez camping out near the 3 point line due to the traffic in the paint. We a pass for Johnson available and Lopez for a long two available.

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Williams pump fakes, Reddick bits but Williams chooses to attempt and quick give and go with Lopez. Lopez goes to pass the ball back to Williams but Vucevic, Reddick and even Davis are focused on stopping Williams from getting the ball and scoring. No passing lanes are really available apart from the high risk skip pass in the air to Johnson. Poor spacing again.

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Lopez decides with the defence backing off him to try the long two, which he misses by hitting the nearside of the rim. A very poor possession with poor spacing and little options.

VIDEO





Just for the record I used the 1st 3 possession's of the 2nd half for the 3 possession's I used for Evans.

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Humps turn now.


1ST POSSESSION


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Williams brings the ball up the floor and passes it to Blatche who sets a pick on Nelson with Williams running towards the basket.

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Williams arcs back around to receive the ball off Blatche with Hump and Johnson attempting to screen Nelson to create space for Williams.

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Williams receives the pass and gives it straight away to Hump open at the top of the key. Notice again the lack of space in the paint and on the floor in general.

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Hump immediately gives the ball to Blatche with the paint completely clogged full of traffic.

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Blatche takes 1 dribble towards the basket and attempts a tough shot which rims out. Hump follows the play looking for the put back but doesn't get it.

Again notice that every single Magic player is inside or near the paint. There isn't any room in there or down low. Things are clogged and we're lucky the magic can't hold onto the ball

VIDEO






2ND POSSESSION


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Ball is inbounded to Blatche by Williams who gets it back off Blatche who looks to set a pick on Nelson.

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Instead of going through with the pick Blatche flashes into space looking to go toward the basket. Notice Davis's starting position on Hump on the weak side of the basket but at the edge of the paint with Hedo heading towards Blatche as Williams releases the ball.

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Hedo reaches for the ball as Blatche drives for the hoop with Davis rotating over to attempt to stop Blatche going up to score. There are 3 defenders around Blatche that have collapsed on him but he still gets to the basket for the finish and foul for the & 1.

Blatche made a very good player here but the spacing again wasn't great.

VIDEO






3RD POSSESSION

There were a couple of poor fast breaks between the 2nd Hump attacking possession and the 3rd possession (this one) just in case are looking at it on NBA Online or anything wondering why I skipped to this.

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So Williams is dribbling it across court with Hump and Blatche setting high screens with Bogans and Brooks on both wings.

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Blatche heads towards the rim with Hump down low in the paint. Williams sends a pass, I think intending for Brooks due to Brooks's position but Blatche takes it anyway heading towards the basket direction. Notice again how clogged the paint is right now with limited passing lanes.

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Davis leaves the man he was covering (Hump) under the basket to double Blatche. Again there is poor passing lanes and angles with little space inside the arc.

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Blatche fakes a pass to Brooks which Reddick bites on, moving out towards Brooks. Blatche then drives towards the basket with Davis forcing him wide he forces a tough shot which misses but Hump is called for a 3 second violation.

VIDEO






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Just to be clear, I took the first 7 offensive possession for Teletovic that he was in the game. It was in the 2nd period with 6 minutes left for 7 possessions which took time down to 2 minutes left.

Then I used the next set of minutes Evans was on the floor which was from the start of the 2nd half. After 3 offensive sets I moved onto Hump.

I used the 1st 3 offensive sets Hump had in the 2nd half which started with around 2mins 30sec left in the 3rd. I took the 1st 3 clear offensive sets that weren't fast breaks and thats what they produced.


To also make my position clear, I like Evans and he has a place on our roster as a garbage energy guy who gives us 10-15mins of pure energy with the backups but he shouldn't under any circumstances be starting for us.

Hump is a more athletic version of Evans who falls in love with his very poor jump shot.

I believe the evidence shows when we he a legit offensive threat on the floor our passing lanes get bigger, our spacing improves and we look a much better team. With Evans or Hump in the game the paint gets clogged up with Evans and Hump having zero outside shot which forces Lopez out of the paint into trying more long 2 point shots.

I believe Teletovic should be our starter and helping our starting unit run more smoothly. With the increased space and bigger passing lanes, our better players find it easier to run plays and score baskets.

Where as everything becomes more difficult with Hump and Evans in the game.

Discuss....
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Post#2 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:58 pm by vincecarter4pres

RealGM just notified me that they would like $2 from each of us to cover the bandwidth of this post.
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Post#3 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:55 pm by vincecarter4pres

On the real, this is a really good read man. Everyone here should take 15 or 20 minutes to really go through this and get an appreciation for how badly Evans and Hump stifle the offense and how much skill Tele brings and really how much he opens things up for everyone else in a variety of ways whether he's bricking shots or hitting them.

Just his mere presence out there forces them to commit a defender to him and dramatically effects the spacing in a positive manner, let alone his ability to pass the ball, get out in transition, put it on the floor a little, some post game and his sick guard like ability to run around crazy off screens and setting screens whether up top pick and roll, back screens, etc.

And it's not even just about starting, it's that Evans and Hump's minutes really need to be limited. And when you have two guys who duplicate so much of their games, mainly negative, it magnifies it ten fold. Then when PJ throws them out there together, often for extended minutes?! Ridiculous.

But great job NI, I know this took you forever. Very thorough and a great conversation topic. Great presentation with all the pics and video as well.
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Post#4 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:26 pm by therealbig3

Fantastic post, one of the best I've ever read, really. I agree 100%.

Teletovic with the starters makes too much sense for our coaching staff though, so they'll still start Evans against Miami, and considering that their players are not only incredibly smart, but incredibly skilled at rotating and covering space, they'll eat us alive as long as Evans is in the game. We won't be able to score effectively AT ALL.
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Post#5 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:27 pm by nycefnl

Humphries and Lopez are just not good...I don't they can dominate even in the D-league....I cringe when they're in the game...Their team defense is always bad...and I've never seen so many missed shots in the paint from players....I think those two are the worst starting PF tandem in the league by far...pitfull that we signed and traded for those two.
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Post#6 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:31 pm by bobbyc

I think everyone including P.J understands how Teletovic is a better offensive player and makes our offense better. That is not why he is on the bench though.

You have to look at his defense and rebounding as well as effort.

We most likely have one of the worst defenses of all the playoff teams. As a team, our defensive rating is the worst of all the playoff teams (which is a stat that is generally credible). Our defense is a BIG problem.

We need to be a better defensive team to be a contender. P.J is looking for defense, rebounding, and effort from the PF which are things Hump and Evans are better at than Teletovic.
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Post#7 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:38 pm by therealbig3

bobbyc wrote:I think everyone including P.J understands how Teletovic is a better offensive player and makes our offense better. That is not why he is on the bench though.

You have to look at his defense and rebounding as well as effort.

We most likely have one of the worst defenses of all the playoff teams. As a team, our defensive rating is the worst of all the playoff teams (which is a stat that is generally credible). Our defense is a BIG problem.

We need to be a better defensive team to be a contender. P.J is looking for defense, rebounding, and effort from the PF which are things Hump and Evans are better at than Teletovic.


Evans and Hump are NOT better than Teletovic defensively. They are frikin terrible, and I actually don't see anything that horrible with Teletovic's defense. Big Baby tried to attack him when Teletovic was in the game, and didn't really have much success at all. Teletovic moves pretty well for a big man too.

Yes, Evans and Hump are better rebounders than Teletovic...but we've been getting killed on the glass recently with Evans and Hump playing a ton of minutes...what's the point of playing them if they're going to suck on both sides of the ball and they're not allowing us to at least break even on the boards?

And you don't play one guy over another solely based on the fact that they're good rebounders, especially when the other guy is a FAR superior offensive player and is less of a defensive liability to boot.
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Post#8 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:44 pm by serp

nycefnl wrote:Humphries and Lopez are just not good...I don't they can dominate even in the D-league....I cringe when they're in the game...Their team defense is always bad...and I've never seen so many missed shots in the paint from players....I think those two are the worst starting PF tandem in the league by far...pitfull that we signed and traded for those two.


You hopefully mean Evans and not Lopez ....




@ N.I.NETS Great job for must've been ALOT of work searching for all this and creating his long post. Sadly i don't think the coaching staff would agree ... . We're stuck with this non-sense rotation unless there's a trade/new coaching staff.

Btw wasn't this on the general board a while ago ? Last time i checked i thought it was there . Now i check the Nets boards and it's here.
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Post#9 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:02 am by NyCeEvO

Props to NIN for putting in the time and effort to make this post.

It just confirmed what we all have been saying: a stretch 4 would do wonders for our offense, even though the offense isn't that bad to begin with.

This topic reminded me of Ray Allen, because of half of the reason Ray attracts so much attention is because of the threat of him shooting a 3. Not only is he good at what he does, but he's such an effective decoy that it really makes the opposition feel uneasy whenever he's in the game.

Obviously Tele is no Ray Allen, but I have the feeling that if Tele gets more playing time and more of an opportunity to get used to the game, he'll improve even more on offense.

You can't expect a guy who never played in the NBA to instantly be acclimated to the system and do things perfectly.

We already know the talent is there, but his comfortability level is what's holding him back. We should be steadily giving him more playing time and see if he can manage it without too drawbacks.

In the beginning of the season, his defense was horrific. Right now, it's not really that good, but it's way better than at the start of the season. If he gets more PT and at least be average defensively, he'll be a great player for our system. Someone just needs to tell him to not be so stiff on defense lol...
Reporter: "So your team has so much talent and yet they seem so lost. Are you trying to lose games?"

Jason Kidd: "Yes, we are...It's a process..." :-?
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Post#10 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:40 am by Jersey Generals

NI, you've really improved your posting over the past few months. Well done, man. I mean, damn, this must have taken you forever.
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Post#11 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:09 am by N Ireland Nets

Jersey Generals wrote:NI, you've really improved your posting over the past few months. Well done, man. I mean, damn, this must have taken you forever.


Thanks man, I appreciate it. I think because I've never really got into the x's & o's of basketball until this season due to living in the UK so not many people to talk about the game with, I'm really just a complete novice picking things up over time. It's hard to build up any knowledge what so ever.

It's funny though how the similarity between football (soccer) movements & basketball is eerily similar. The triangle for instance is a concept straight out of the football rule book on possession, movement & creating space for opportunities on goal through several options at any one time. I find that aspect utterly fascinating.

For anyone wondering I used NBA international league pass to take screenshots & my iPhone 4 for the videos to upload to YouTube.

Last point ill make because this is a rambling post, this wasnt intended to be a bastion of hope or proclamation of Teletovic being the saviour but more so to highlight the huge difference it makes to our system to have a PF on the floor who A) is an offence threat so can't be left unguarded B) Is a capable passer & lastly C) Has good basketball iq.

What this should help show is that a trade for the likes of Millsap dramatically improves our starting unit because of the reasons I've tried to highlight in my opening posts.

Then our second unit should be greatly improved by having Teletovic play 15-20 mins off the bench, giving the same benefit to the likes of Watson, Brooks, Bogans & Blatche as he did to our starters.

I feel like spacing on offence is hugely overlooked & by stretching the defence it makes recovery or rotations that much hardly & places huge stress ins defence.

For example, the Magic couldn't adjust to the change of play with Tele on the floor & after a great offensive spurt the Magic called timeout after JJ's great no look pass.

They obviously wouldve talked about how to stop Brooklyn from scoring & rotations etc. But straight from that time out, Tele puts a nice pick on Nelson, Williams gives the ball to Wallace who made a well times pass that hits Williams in stride for the easy open layup.

I can't say I've seen Williams cutting much at all to the basket open off the ball. From what I saw making this thread it backed up my thoughts with proof. Having any sort of threat at the PF position gives more space, more time and bigger passing lanes for our guys to exploit.

That is why Teletovic with 0 points, 0 rebounds & 1 foul in the 2nd quarter stretch he played up to half time was great smart basketball. It showed how big an impact someone can have just being on the floor and so long as you have a high basketball iq your going to help the team.

I deliberately didnt include the 8th possession because that one was great ball movement that found Tele open on the 3 point line. A magic player ran to close him down, he pump faked and drove to the basket, committed Vucevjc and slipped a beautiful pass to Lopez who tried to put the ball straight up but got fouled and went to the line.

I thought by not turning it into a "look how good Tele looks" presentation it highlighted the benefits of competent PF play.
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Post#12 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:30 am by therealbig3

BTW, Teletovic has played double-digit minutes in 6 games so far...in those 6 games:

15.3 mpg, 9.0 ppg, 64.0% TS (47.5% FG, 48.0% 3PT, 80.0% FT)

For the season, it's a super small sample size obviously, but our ORating with him on the court vs him off the court is +1.1, and that's including his erratic playing time and adjustment period early on.

In terms of +/-, in his 6 double-digit minute games, he's a total +29...per game, that's +4.8.

The guy is having a very real impact out there, and his production when he actually gets solid playing time has been fantastic.
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Post#13 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:42 am by Paradise

Great post. What makes it even more hilarious at him not getting playing time or even given a chance is the fact, PJ has said he is the hardest worker in practice and getting better on both ends of the floor. Yet, he's still riding the bench.

He spaces the floor beautifully and although Orlando did not have a stretch 4, Reggie and Hump cannot guard stretch 4s, Mirza will always have an advantage there. Which means we probably don't get blown out by leaving Marcus Morris and Patterick Patterson open for multiple 3s.

Someone needs to tell PJ to get over his "old school" bullsh*t and give him a chance in a steady rotation. What the hell was the point of wanting a stretch 4 if he won't be used properly?
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Post#14 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:06 am by serp

What could be even sadder is i could see Billy trading for somone like Ilyasova only to have PJ sit him right next to Mirza on the bench.
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Post#15 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:07 am by SpeedyG

Great job with the post. I understand what you are saying with spacing, and I am a big proponent of Mirza getting more burn with the starters. However, I will play devil's advocate on this. The first possession with Evans, when Joe got the ball and Vucevic doubling with Reddick. In this instance, Joe decided to pass out to Deron with Wallace waiting out at the 3. I don't know if this is by design (which if it is, then is a problem with the design).

What SHOULD happen at this point is a hard CUT by Wallace inside. Vucevic was doubling over the top, so Joe should be able to get the ball over Redick and into the cutting Wallace. Notice how wide open that middle of the floor is. Cut by Crash, gets the ball. Will force Harkless to step up to him. Leaving Baby to cover both Lopez and Evans.

The play SHOULD have resulted in a drive and dish if Wallace cuts towards the basket rather than waiting for the ball at the 3, which isn't his game anyway. So either bad recognition of Crash, or bad play design (at least for this personnel).

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The 2nd possession is an issue, and highlights the deficiencies of Evans' play. Rather than attacking inside as soon as Lopez got the ball, Evans drifts towards the baseline. If he crashes hard towards the basket rather than drifting, Brook would have been able to get him the ball instead of having to bounce it allowing the defense time to rotate, he would have had a layup or a foul. Of course, a foul for Evans is hardly a guarantee for a point.

The 3rd illustrates the huge difference though. That pick and roll? NOBODY paid attention to Evans as he rolled. Which meant Deron saw the same look, rendering the pick ineffective.

4th play...ugh. OK, it is harder and harder to defend. What have a lot of us said about how to use Blatche effectively? DO NOT GIVE HIM THE BALL IN THE PERIMETER. What do we do here? We GIVE THE BALL TO BLATCHE IN THE PERIMETER.

Now the last play.

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See this right here? That's an assist. That's an alley-oop that Hump is capable of finishing. But Blatche decides to pass on the pass and drives instead.

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This is the next screen. OK, so you don't want to make the pass earlier. So Blatche drives as the two defenders gets sucked into him. Notice below, where Hump has Hedo sealed? DISH instead of taking the fadeaway!

In closing, I agree that the spacing is better with Mirza. It gives us a completely different dynamic than with Hump and Evans on the floor. That being said, even if that was the case, we saw that there were still opportunities there in the other possessions even with those two doofus in at PF. I'm sure the coaches are looking at those plays and telling the players the same thing.
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Post#16 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:49 am by N Ireland Nets

Speedy, great reply.

That shows that Hump should be ahead of Evans in the rotation but my point is offence becomes much more difficult with either Hump or Evans in the game.

Your talking about making some tough enough plays like putting the ball in the air for a Hump alley op but that's not a high percentage pass.

The same when JJ gets doubled, he easy out pass was Williams so he passes it to Williams rather than force a pass.

Evans is so bad it's scary. That play where Lopez makes the bounce pass leaves Evans with a wide open look under the basket but he's not good enough to finish so swings a big pass out to Johnson.

This was all against one of the worst teams in the NBA as well.
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Post#17 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:00 am by jerseyjac

N Ireland Nets wrote:
Jersey Generals wrote:NI, you've really improved your posting over the past few months. Well done, man. I mean, damn, this must have taken you forever.


Thanks man, I appreciate it. I think because I've never really got into the x's & o's of basketball until this season due to living in the UK so not many people to talk about the game with, I'm really just a complete novice picking things up over time. It's hard to build up any knowledge what so ever.

It's funny though how the similarity between football (soccer) movements & basketball is eerily similar. The triangle for instance is a concept straight out of the football rule book on possession, movement & creating space for opportunities on goal through several options at any one time. I find that aspect utterly fascinating.


So true...

For anyone wondering I used NBA international league pass to take screenshots & my iPhone 4 for the videos to upload to YouTube.

Last point ill make because this is a rambling post, this wasnt intended to be a bastion of hope or proclamation of Teletovic being the saviour but more so to highlight the huge difference it makes to our system to have a PF on the floor who A) is an offence threat so can't be left unguarded B) Is a capable passer & lastly C) Has good basketball iq.

What this should help show is that a trade for the likes of Millsap dramatically improves our starting unit because of the reasons I've tried to highlight in my opening posts.

Then our second unit should be greatly improved by having Teletovic play 15-20 mins off the bench, giving the same benefit to the likes of Watson, Brooks, Bogans & Blatche as he did to our starters.

I feel like spacing on offence is hugely overlooked & by stretching the defence it makes recovery or rotations that much hardly & places huge stress ins defence.

For example, the Magic couldn't adjust to the change of play with Tele on the floor & after a great offensive spurt the Magic called timeout after JJ's great no look pass.

They obviously wouldve talked about how to stop Brooklyn from scoring & rotations etc. But straight from that time out, Tele puts a nice pick on Nelson, Williams gives the ball to Wallace who made a well times pass that hits Williams in stride for the easy open layup.

I can't say I've seen Williams cutting much at all to the basket open off the ball. From what I saw making this thread it backed up my thoughts with proof. Having any sort of threat at the PF position gives more space, more time and bigger passing lanes for our guys to exploit.

That is why Teletovic with 0 points, 0 rebounds & 1 foul in the 2nd quarter stretch he played up to half time was great smart basketball. It showed how big an impact someone can have just being on the floor and so long as you have a high basketball iq your going to help the team.

I deliberately didnt include the 8th possession because that one was great ball movement that found Tele open on the 3 point line. A magic player ran to close him down, he pump faked and drove to the basket, committed Vucevjc and slipped a beautiful pass to Lopez who tried to put the ball straight up but got fouled and went to the line.

I thought by not turning it into a "look how good Tele looks" presentation it highlighted the benefits of competent PF play.


I was happy to see ESPN report Mirza had an illness causing the DNPs...nice post and you definitely can view some of those clips from different perspectives...Regardless, concentrating on what Tele does and does well and understanding what he can potentially do adequately (rebound and contain on the defensive side) though we really never get to see if he can sustain due to a lack of minutes...there is no reason that time is not now...

Get on with it...this is not like we are benching Pau Gasol...and purely for experimental purposes you could start Mirza keep his minutes locked @ 24min and let Evans and Hump split the rest with them both still able to contribute at high level, cause we all know they don't need a lot min. to have a big impact.

I believe there is belief in Mirza by the coaching staff and they obviously know the positives...I truly do not understand beyond a minor concern being a defensive liability why we won't pull the trigger on this...the mismatch Mirza creates on most nights almost offsets the potential defensive liability which I feel is a lot less than what we thought at the start of the season...

And I cannot believe Mario has not pushed the envelope with this one...considering the teams he has played for, those offensive systems and his role on those teams...

The time is NOW!
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Post#18 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:09 am by SpeedyG

The great thing here, is that King and Proky are meeting about PJ soon. Proky isn't your typical owner. He's a basketball fan, first and foremost. He's also used to the International game, which places value on floor spacing and ball movement. I hope that he's seeing these things and communicating this to Billy along the lines of "hey, why aren't we doing this?"
Bless the man if his heart and his land are one ~ FrancisM, R.I.P. 3/6/09

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Post#19 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:30 am by N Ireland Nets

To jerseyjac, you can definitely view some clips from a difference perspective. I think it's obvious that as my post got longer and longer I got more and more tired and basically picked a couple of things out of each image of Humps and Evans possessions rather than break it down a bit better like I did for Tele.

Reason being I had been writing this from about 7pm uk time till 1:20am or something so I basically was wrecked.

Next time I do something like this I would probably do it over a few days some time when the Nets have an extended break to give each player a fairer breakdown.
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Post#20 Re: Why Teletovic should start for Brooklyn
Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:31 am by serp

Something that probably also needs mentioning is what Hump does alot that goes beyond spacing . His tendency to take shots regularly that should only be a last resort in a shotclock or tries to go 1-1 with disastrous results in most of those cases .
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