Coaching Change Thread (Nets Hire Lionel Hollins)

[Prokorov]

You do know Livingston was our backup PG this year right? Why are you bringing up Gutierrez (3rd string) and Teague (5th string)? Or did you not watch last year?

did livingston not start? who played the 20 or so minutes when livingston was on the bench? again, dwill being better then 2 dleague scrubs and livingston having moved over to PG after finishing a big shift with the starters isnt saying much. he is better then 2 d-leaguers and a combo gaurd who wouldnt start at PG for any team in the league

If you think JJ's primary job was creating for others, handling the ball and managing the game - I don't know what to say. He was pretty clearly regulated to mostly spotting up or posting up.

our entire offense ran through him. he created TONS of offense in the post and drew a ton of double teams. he certainly created more offense and managed things. much more then dwill coming down court, getting nowhere near the paint, then passing it back out.

Deron's scoring was average (not terrible or trash like you make it seem) - but I don't think his playmaking, assists or game managing were average. Feel free to disagree but I'm not arguing this with you or MDB anymore.

you need to stop it with this... YOU are the one making it out like dwill was playing at some high level. i never said he was terrible. i said he was AVERAGE. YOU on the otherhand said he was a "HUGE PLUS"

me saying dwill wasnt great isnt the same as saying he sucked.

[NyCeEvO]

All this talk about Deron's confidence is BS. He hasn't been successful because he hasn't been able to get passed anyone with his two bum ankles. This may be the year he's finally fully healthy. While he'll never live up to his contract or be loved by the Fans, he has a chance to have an all star caliber season.

D-Will said several times last year that his confidence was really low and it was due to the fact that he was injured and couldn't really do anything out on the court.

[MrDollarBills]

Derons confidence stuff has been way overblown. To finish off the year he couldn't make open 3s. That's why he struggled. You're not going to succeed wen shooting 29% from 3 on open shots. I don't care how much effort you play with or how tough you are. Compare that to how he played 2nd half of last year - I expect a completely different player. I don't expect him to be dunking on people or getting to the line 7 times a game but last year he was a shooter that would get super hot. That never happened this year. Have to assume the ankles messed with his jumpshot. He was still overall a huge plus on offense due to his playmaking and ball handling.

"huge plus on offense" is going way overboard. the guy scored ZERO points in one of those playoff games and overall was an avg NBA PGs. there were a ton of nights where he was equalled out by a scrubby opposing gaurd

he never got in the lane, shot it inconsistent, and never got to the line.

Paul is a huge plus on offense. curry is a huge plus on offense. parker is a huge plus on offense.

dwill was barely average

You can define huge plus however you want - our teams offense was much much better with Deron on the floor whether he played with the 1st or 2nd unit. I'm not comparing him to Paul or Curry. In the context of our team, he was still a huge plus offensively. Which is very possible considering he was our best playmaker, ball handler, game manager. Our team didn't need him to be a big scorer with JJ, Pierce, Teletovic, Shaun, etc. although it would've been nice. I don't expect you or MDB to agree.

I'm talking about the whole year not just the playoffs.

Why do you exclude the playoffs? Because that just blows up your entire argument?

Deron Williams is arguably the worst contract in basketball. Please stop this nonsense. The dude has done nothing positive for this franchise since he's been here.

[Keith Van Horn]

"huge plus on offense" is going way overboard. the guy scored ZERO points in one of those playoff games and overall was an avg NBA PGs. there were a ton of nights where he was equalled out by a scrubby opposing gaurd

he never got in the lane, shot it inconsistent, and never got to the line.

Paul is a huge plus on offense. curry is a huge plus on offense. parker is a huge plus on offense.

dwill was barely average

You can define huge plus however you want - our teams offense was much much better with Deron on the floor whether he played with the 1st or 2nd unit. I'm not comparing him to Paul or Curry. In the context of our team, he was still a huge plus offensively. Which is very possible considering he was our best playmaker, ball handler, game manager. Our team didn't need him to be a big scorer with JJ, Pierce, Teletovic, Shaun, etc. although it would've been nice. I don't expect you or MDB to agree.

I'm talking about the whole year not just the playoffs.

Why do you exclude the playoffs? Because that just blows up your entire argument?

Deron Williams is arguably the worst contract in basketball. Please stop this nonsense. The dude has done nothing positive for this franchise since he's been here.

I laugh so hard every time I see your avatar.... his expression fits the picture so well

[MGrand15]

"huge plus on offense" is going way overboard. the guy scored ZERO points in one of those playoff games and overall was an avg NBA PGs. there were a ton of nights where he was equalled out by a scrubby opposing gaurd

he never got in the lane, shot it inconsistent, and never got to the line.

Paul is a huge plus on offense. curry is a huge plus on offense. parker is a huge plus on offense.

dwill was barely average

You can define huge plus however you want - our teams offense was much much better with Deron on the floor whether he played with the 1st or 2nd unit. I'm not comparing him to Paul or Curry. In the context of our team, he was still a huge plus offensively. Which is very possible considering he was our best playmaker, ball handler, game manager. Our team didn't need him to be a big scorer with JJ, Pierce, Teletovic, Shaun, etc. although it would've been nice. I don't expect you or MDB to agree.

I'm talking about the whole year not just the playoffs.

Why do you exclude the playoffs? Because that just blows up your entire argument?

Deron Williams is arguably the worst contract in basketball. Please stop this nonsense. The dude has done nothing positive for this franchise since he's been here.

Talking about an entire season does not equal excluding the playoffs. It means talking about regular season + playoffs... We also weren't talking about contracts at all.

Nothing will "blow up" my argument. You can disagree and that's fine. I'm not saying Deron was elite or a top flight PG. Just that he helped our offense a lot. Which he did.

[jeff1624]

All this talk about Deron's confidence is BS. He hasn't been successful because he hasn't been able to get passed anyone with his two bum ankles. This may be the year he's finally fully healthy. While he'll never live up to his contract or be loved by the Fans, he has a chance to have an all star caliber season.

D-Will said several times last year that his confidence was really low and it was due to the fact that he was injured and couldn't really do anything out on the court.

Yeah, but too much emphasis is being placed on his "mental issues." He was just in terrible shape and you would cringe when he tried to drive because he would either fail getting past his man or he would get destroyed by the front court. That's why he wasn't effective. Shooting wise he was fine. Beyond 16 feet he shot .523% which was a career high for him. And he shot 37% from three which is respectable. But you're never gonna put up good shots when you fail to get rid of your man which Deron was unable to do.

[jeff1624]

Talking about an entire season does not equal excluding the playoffs. It means talking about regular season + playoffs... We also weren't talking about contracts at all.

Nothing will "blow up" my argument. You can disagree and that's fine. I'm not saying Deron was elite or a top flight PG. Just that he helped our offense a lot. Which he did.

Deron deserves every criticism he receives, but I have no idea why people refuse to admit that we were better with him on the court. The advanced stats AND the eye test all prove it.

[SpeedyG]

All this talk about Deron's confidence is BS. He hasn't been successful because he hasn't been able to get passed anyone with his two bum ankles. This may be the year he's finally fully healthy. While he'll never live up to his contract or be loved by the Fans, he has a chance to have an all star caliber season.

D-Will said several times last year that his confidence was really low and it was due to the fact that he was injured and couldn't really do anything out on the court.

Yeah, but too much emphasis is being placed on his "mental issues." He was just in terrible shape and you would cringe when he tried to drive because he would either fail getting past his man or he would get destroyed by the front court. That's why he wasn't effective. Shooting wise he was fine. Beyond 16 feet he shot .523% which was a career high for him. And he shot 37% from three which is respectable. But you're never gonna put up good shots when you fail to get rid of your man which Deron was unable to do.

Ah so that explains why he constantly deferred in clutch time in the playoffs, refusing to take an open shot while forcing guys like Alan Anderson to chuck it up as time expired?

Or how he split crunch time FTs in the playoffs, time and time again?

[MrDollarBills]

Talking about an entire season does not equal excluding the playoffs. It means talking about regular season + playoffs... We also weren't talking about contracts at all.

Nothing will "blow up" my argument. You can disagree and that's fine. I'm not saying Deron was elite or a top flight PG. Just that he helped our offense a lot. Which he did.

Deron deserves every criticism he receives, but I have no idea why people refuse to admit that we were better with him on the court. The advanced stats AND the eye test all prove it.

Look at my avatar. Explain to me how he made us better on the floor during the game where he scored zero points and played gutless.

[jeff1624]

D-Will said several times last year that his confidence was really low and it was due to the fact that he was injured and couldn't really do anything out on the court.

Yeah, but too much emphasis is being placed on his "mental issues." He was just in terrible shape and you would cringe when he tried to drive because he would either fail getting past his man or he would get destroyed by the front court. That's why he wasn't effective. Shooting wise he was fine. Beyond 16 feet he shot .523% which was a career high for him. And he shot 37% from three which is respectable. But you're never gonna put up good shots when you fail to get rid of your man which Deron was unable to do.

Ah so that explains why he constantly deferred in clutch time in the playoffs, refusing to take an open shot while forcing guys like Alan Anderson to chuck it up as time expired?

Or how he split crunch time FTs in the playoffs, time and time again?

I didn't say there weren't confidence issues, but it wasn't the main/only reason for his struggles.

[SpeedyG]

Yeah, but too much emphasis is being placed on his "mental issues." He was just in terrible shape and you would cringe when he tried to drive because he would either fail getting past his man or he would get destroyed by the front court. That's why he wasn't effective. Shooting wise he was fine. Beyond 16 feet he shot .523% which was a career high for him. And he shot 37% from three which is respectable. But you're never gonna put up good shots when you fail to get rid of your man which Deron was unable to do.

Ah so that explains why he constantly deferred in clutch time in the playoffs, refusing to take an open shot while forcing guys like Alan Anderson to chuck it up as time expired?

Or how he split crunch time FTs in the playoffs, time and time again?

I didn't say there weren't confidence issues, but it wasn't the main/only reason for his struggles.

The ankles are supposedly being fixed by surgery. That was the other reason for him struggling right? So that should go away this season when he's healthy.

Now, is he going to have a heart transplant also? Like I said, the dude was terrified to take...and make a meaningful shot in the playoffs.

It's no coincidence that Hollins talked openly about Deron's "confidence" and how he wants to make sure his players are not "afraid to fail".

Those are clear words for Deron, because they surely don't apply to Joe, KG, and Pierce.

[MrDollarBills]

Ah so that explains why he constantly deferred in clutch time in the playoffs, refusing to take an open shot while forcing guys like Alan Anderson to chuck it up as time expired?

Or how he split crunch time FTs in the playoffs, time and time again?

I didn't say there weren't confidence issues, but it wasn't the main/only reason for his struggles.

The ankles are supposedly being fixed by surgery. That was the other reason for him struggling right? So that should go away this season when he's healthy.

Now, is he going to have a heart transplant also? Like I said, the dude was terrified to take...and make a meaningful shot in the playoffs.

It's no coincidence that Hollins talked openly about Deron's "confidence" and how he wants to make sure his players are not "afraid to fail".

Those are clear words for Deron, because they surely don't apply to Joe, KG, and Pierce.

Hollins won me over with his mentality and philosophy. If you play hard and fail I can accept that over being scared and not trying at all. Deron flat out quit on the team and Hollins knows that he's going to have to change his loser mentality.

[SpeedyG]

I wouldn't say he quit. I think it is as Hollins said. Deron felt the pressure on him (as the supposed franchise player), and was afraid to take shots in fear of not living up to them.

Contrast that with other players, regardless on their capabilities, who relish at the opportunity to take those shots.

[Prokorov]

I wouldn't say he quit. I think it is as Hollins said. Deron felt the pressure on him (as the supposed franchise player), and was afraid to take shots in fear of not living up to them.

Contrast that with other players, regardless on their capabilities, who relish at the opportunity to take those shots.

for me it was 1% confidence and 99% effort. the dude didnt play hard the majority of the time on the court. and he had way to many games were he was outplayed or matched by the roberts and pressy's of the world.

and not just on the court. not putting in the effort to be in shape for all 82 games.

im not sure we saw 100% effort from him 1 game last season

[Paradise]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KBergCBS/status/486977059127058432[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KBergCBS/status/486977412195184641[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/486969172094898178[/tweet]

[Rich Rane]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KBergCBS/status/486977059127058432[/tweet]

[MrDollarBills]

Awesome hire.

edit: Dude is the Joe Wolf that we're hiring the former player?? That dude was awesome, his mullet was ungodly

[Born_Ready]

So what does this mean for Lawrence Frank?

[NyCeEvO]

So what does this mean for Lawrence Frank?

Upgraded to the role of clubhouse janitor?

[RainDrops]

I think it's fair to question Deron's effort and confidence, but at the same time, don't underestimate how those two things can be affected by bum ankles.