Game Thread: Nets @ Celtics - 10/29/14 Season Opener 7:30pm

[Trader_Joe]

Hollins isn't changing the line up after 1 game other than to mix up who starts with KG and hopefully that is Mirza. Overall, I was disgusted by the game and stopped watching at half time. I doubt there was anything to take away in the second.

Plumlee looked terrible as did KG.
Guard wise at least JJ was aggressive and Jack played well.
D.Will looked like he was trying...he's just not the player he should be. Bogdanovic needs to wake up or Jack, AA or AK need to start. All are better players for the foreseeable future.

I definitely think Lopez would have been a big difference maker. Olynyk and Sullinger were killing us early where as Lopez might have gotten them in foul trouble and kept us in the game early on as it was over by the half. His rim protection would have been infinitely better than KG or Plumlee as well. He also would have opened things up for the perimeter players as the Cs had no reason to be in the paint.

If Lopez doesn't play in Detroit (not expecting him to) there is another loss.

Also..I was watching lots of other games last night and the biggest difference is the quickness and athleticism of other teams vs. us. You actually hear their sneakers squeak. Hopefully KG would be willing to waive his NTC and we can get anything for him as an expiring contract with intangibles. He should be playing 12-15m a night as a back up C.

i dont think lopez would have made a difference... our issues werent as big on offense or inside.... there points in the paint werent like on post ups... they got their points in the paint by beating us off the diblle, killing us on back cuts and destroying us in the pick and roll. olynck and sullinger lived at the 3 point line. lopez isnt really suited to gaurd those guys 25 feet from the hoop. lopez protects inside well vs bigs in man up situations, he is really poor protecting it against driving gaurds, wings, and especially vs the pick and roll.

maybe he picks up some fouls on those guys, but really their entire roster was doing the same thing. prime olojuwon isnt going to help when the entire 5 on the other team gets to the hoop at will

Of course you don't, we have Plumlee to save us and you hate Lopez and will never praise him.
Meanwhile let's see how we do against the Cs with Lopez.
Also weren't we undefeated this PS with Lopez while all our losses without him?

Fact is Lopez could have offered much better rim protection that what we had. He also has that first quarter dominance ability no one else has and could have gotten their bigs in foul trouble. Either way he offers a post presence on offense and defense no one can come close to matching on this team.

This team is doomed if Lopez goes down again. This isn't last year's team with Kidd, SL and PP. This is much closer to two years ago where we had a 25 PER AS C that lead us to 49 wins. Trade Plumlee for Lopez on that team and we are sub .500.

[F3LON]

Hollins isn't changing the line up after 1 game other than to mix up who starts with KG and hopefully that is Mirza. Overall, I was disgusted by the game and stopped watching at half time. I doubt there was anything to take away in the second.

Plumlee looked terrible as did KG.
Guard wise at least JJ was aggressive and Jack played well.
D.Will looked like he was trying...he's just not the player he should be. Bogdanovic needs to wake up or Jack, AA or AK need to start. All are better players for the foreseeable future.

I definitely think Lopez would have been a big difference maker. Olynyk and Sullinger were killing us early where as Lopez might have gotten them in foul trouble and kept us in the game early on as it was over by the half. His rim protection would have been infinitely better than KG or Plumlee as well. He also would have opened things up for the perimeter players as the Cs had no reason to be in the paint.

If Lopez doesn't play in Detroit (not expecting him to) there is another loss.

Also..I was watching lots of other games last night and the biggest difference is the quickness and athleticism of other teams vs. us. You actually hear their sneakers squeak. Hopefully KG would be willing to waive his NTC and we can get anything for him as an expiring contract with intangibles. He should be playing 12-15m a night as a back up C.

i dont think lopez would have made a difference... our issues werent as big on offense or inside.... there points in the paint werent like on post ups... they got their points in the paint by beating us off the diblle, killing us on back cuts and destroying us in the pick and roll. olynck and sullinger lived at the 3 point line. lopez isnt really suited to gaurd those guys 25 feet from the hoop. lopez protects inside well vs bigs in man up situations, he is really poor protecting it against driving gaurds, wings, and especially vs the pick and roll.

maybe he picks up some fouls on those guys, but really their entire roster was doing the same thing. prime olojuwon isnt going to help when the entire 5 on the other team gets to the hoop at will

Of course you don't, we have Plumlee to save us and you hate Lopez and will never praise him.
Meanwhile let's see how we do against the Cs with Lopez.
Also weren't we undefeated this PS with Lopez while all our losses without him?

Fact is Lopez could have offered much better rim protection that what we had. He also has that first quarter dominance ability no one else has and could have gotten their bigs in foul trouble. Either way he offers a post presence on offense and defense no one can come close to matching on this team.

This team is doomed if Lopez goes down again. This isn't last year's team with Kidd, SL and PP. This is much closer to two years ago where we had a 25 PER AS C that lead us to 49 wins. Trade Plumlee for Lopez on that team and we are sub .500.

Why do you say he's hating, he made very strong points.

Lopez is a terrible defender. His stat's at defending the rim are comical because just about every team focuses on getting Lopez in PnR. The sample size difference is extensive Im sure. It's like saying the Jets have the best run defense. Of course they do, why run the ball against them when their secondary is terrible.

[Trader_Joe]

i dont think lopez would have made a difference... our issues werent as big on offense or inside.... there points in the paint werent like on post ups... they got their points in the paint by beating us off the diblle, killing us on back cuts and destroying us in the pick and roll. olynck and sullinger lived at the 3 point line. lopez isnt really suited to gaurd those guys 25 feet from the hoop. lopez protects inside well vs bigs in man up situations, he is really poor protecting it against driving gaurds, wings, and especially vs the pick and roll.

maybe he picks up some fouls on those guys, but really their entire roster was doing the same thing. prime olojuwon isnt going to help when the entire 5 on the other team gets to the hoop at will

Of course you don't, we have Plumlee to save us and you hate Lopez and will never praise him.
Meanwhile let's see how we do against the Cs with Lopez.
Also weren't we undefeated this PS with Lopez while all our losses without him?

Fact is Lopez could have offered much better rim protection that what we had. He also has that first quarter dominance ability no one else has and could have gotten their bigs in foul trouble. Either way he offers a post presence on offense and defense no one can come close to matching on this team.

This team is doomed if Lopez goes down again. This isn't last year's team with Kidd, SL and PP. This is much closer to two years ago where we had a 25 PER AS C that lead us to 49 wins. Trade Plumlee for Lopez on that team and we are sub .500.

Why do you say he's hating, he made very strong points.

Lopez is a terrible defender. His stat's at defending the rim are comical because just about every team focuses on getting Lopez in PnR. The sample size difference is extensive Im sure. It's like saying the Jets have the best run defense. Of course they do, why run the ball against them when their secondary is terrible.

He simply mimicked your points so I see why you agree.

BTW..he was defending about 14 FGA in the paint last year...one of the highest because the guards can't stop penetration which completely nullifies that point.

1st quarter scoring?
One of the best.

Paint protection by FG% and blocked shots?
One of the best.

Scoring efficiency?
One of the best.

Ability to get to the line? (And thus getting opposing bigs on foul trouble)
One of the best.

That is why I can't take any people that say we are better off without Lopez seriously and the proof is in the pudding.
Even last year during 10-21..we were still better when he played vs when he didn't.
Was he there for...
Kidd getting a clue
Deron playing better
Pierce not sucking
Teletovic coming alive
The team gelling in time
KG being played where he should
Livingston added to the line up
AK back from injury
Etc
Etc.
Nope..so who knows what would have happened...nor does it matter. This team is not like that team rather closer to the 2012 team based around one a C with a 25 PER. And that team was astronomically better with Lopez.

This team is awful without Lopez and considering he may not be back anytime soon best we realize that...not that I expect people who have reputations and agendas to admit that since it would kill their narrative.

Meanwhile I love the one argument...he can't defend PNR...well neither can KG, Plumlee or any if our bigs as evidenced the other night. Try again.

[MGrand15]

No one is saying Lopez is great at defense but if you don't he would've helped what happened in the opener, you're delusional. That game was a disaster on both ends of the floor.

He wouldn't have guarded Sullinger/Olynyk 28 feet from the rim like KG and Plumlee did but that's a good thing. Let those scrubs chuck 3s. We were giving up layups because our bigs were planted at the 3 point line. Lopez would've made a concerted effort to stay closer to the paint. That would've been a plus right off the bat.

Now consider the fact that no one on the Celtics can dream of guarding Lopez - it would've been a completely different ball game. Offense was a MAJOR, MAJOR problem yesterday. It's why Hollins brought it up in the press conference.

We scored 43 points in the first half. The Celtics scored 67. 43 sounds okay IF you play at a slow pace. The game was being played at a pace that allowed the Celtics to score nearly 70. That means we used a TON of possessions and only scored 43. There's no way you can win. Even if we defended okay, we would've been down at least 10.

Lopez would've also put Plumlee in his natural role off the bench. The guy is clearly still trying to get it together. Seems like his head is in the clouds after the Team USA thing. Maybe he thought he'd have a starting spot and a bigger role on offense. I don't know what the deal is but I'm not liking where his focus is AT ALL.

[Trader_Joe]

No one is saying Lopez is great at defense but if you don't he would've helped what happened in the opener, you're delusional. That game was a disaster on both ends of the floor.

He wouldn't have guarded Sullinger/Olynyk 28 feet from the rim like KG and Plumlee did but that's a good thing. Let those scrubs chuck 3s. We were giving up layups because our bigs were planted at the 3 point line. Lopez would've made a concerted effort to stay closer to the paint. That would've been a plus right off the bat.

Now consider the fact that no one on the Celtics can dream of guarding Lopez - it would've been a completely different ball game. Offense was a MAJOR, MAJOR problem yesterday. It's why Hollins brought it up in the press conference.

We scored 43 points in the first half. The Celtics scored 67. 43 sounds okay IF you play at a slow pace. The game was being played at a pace that allowed the Celtics to score nearly 70. That means we used a TON of possessions and only scored 43. There's no way you can win. Even if we defended okay, we would've been down at least 10.

Lopez would've also put Plumlee in his natural role off the bench. The guy is clearly still trying to get it together. Seems like his head is in the clouds after the Team USA thing. Maybe he thought he'd have a starting spot and a bigger role on offense. I don't know what the deal is but I'm not liking where his focus is AT ALL.

It's not delusion, it's having an agenda and reputation to uphold and not admit being wrong or biased. One of these posters built his rep on hating Lopez and the other Teletovic..that will never change unless they make a new screen name.

[F3LON]

He simply mimicked your points so I see why you agree.

Because they make sense to anyone who have watched Lopez play. Lopez is NOT a good defensive player. Not even close. The Shaq's and Ewings of the old NBA dont exist anymore. Most teams dont have a true low post center and the ones that do dont run their offense through them. The only one I can even think of is Al Jefferson.

BTW..he was defending about 14 FGA in the paint last year...one of the highest because the guards can't stop penetration which completely nullifies that point.

How is that even calculated? Does that include PnR plays where Lopez gets burnt on (which is often) and his guy gets an easy score inside as the lead footed Lopez is still out on the perimeter? Yeah if Lopez can get back to the rim he will alter shots if not block them. But when Boston is running a 1-5 PnR out by the 3pt line I highly doubt Lopez would be able to cover that amount of floor.

Based on his overall Drtg/100 possession Lopez was one of the worst defenders out of all of our bigs last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2014.html

KG 101
Evans 104
Plumlee 104
Blatche 105
Lopez 108
Mirza 109

No shocks here as far as Im concerned. KG was by far our best defender. Lopez and Mirza are by far the worst.

This team is awful without Lopez and considering he may not be back anytime soon best we realize that...not that I expect people who have reputations and agendas to admit that since it would kill their narrative.

Meanwhile I love the one argument...he can't defend PNR...well neither can KG, Plumlee or any if our bigs as evidenced the other night. Try again.

I support my narrative with facts buddy. I provide video and stats. You call it an agenda I call it observation supported by data. I cant see how you refute my posts. Choosing cherry picked stats like % at the rim takes defense out of context. Teams dont attack your strength, they attack your weaknesses. Why challenge a 7'2" guy like Lopez inside where he wins due to his size when you can easily draw him away from the rim for easy buckets.

It's the same problem with Mirza. Teams target him when he is in the game. Players like Pattrick Petterson and Derrick Williams become stars vs his half-azz defense.

Im not going to argue with you regarding Lopez's offense, he is awesome. Everything you said about him offensively is true. He is pretty much unstoppable. But offense sells tickets, it doesnt win games. Players like Lopez, Mirza, Bogdanovic, DWill, Jack, DWill dont play defense and that's why we can lose to bad teams like Boston.

[Trader_Joe]

He simply mimicked your points so I see why you agree.

Because they make sense to anyone who have watched Lopez play. Lopez is NOT a good defensive player. Not even close. The Shaq's and Ewings of the old NBA dont exist anymore. Most teams dont have a true low post center and the ones that do dont run their offense through them. The only one I can even think of is Al Jefferson.

BTW..he was defending about 14 FGA in the paint last year...one of the highest because the guards can't stop penetration which completely nullifies that point.

How is that even calculated? Does that include PnR plays where Lopez gets burnt on (which is often) and his guy gets an easy score inside as the lead footed Lopez is still out on the perimeter? Yeah if Lopez can get back to the rim he will alter shots if not block them. But when Boston is running a 1-5 PnR out by the 3pt line I highly doubt Lopez would be able to cover that amount of floor.

Based on his overall Drtg/100 possession Lopez was one of the worst defenders out of all of our bigs last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2014.html

KG 101
Evans 104
Plumlee 104
Blatche 105
Lopez 108
Mirza 109

No shocks here as far as Im concerned. KG was by far our best defender. Lopez and Mirza are by far the worst.

This team is awful without Lopez and considering he may not be back anytime soon best we realize that...not that I expect people who have reputations and agendas to admit that since it would kill their narrative.

Meanwhile I love the one argument...he can't defend PNR...well neither can KG, Plumlee or any if our bigs as evidenced the other night. Try again.

I support my narrative with facts buddy. I provide video and stats. You call it an agenda I call it observation supported by data. I cant see how you refute my posts. Choosing cherry picked stats like % at the rim takes defense out of context. Teams dont attack your strength, they attack your weaknesses. Why challenge a 7'2" guy like Lopez inside where he wins due to his size when you can easily draw him away from the rim for easy buckets.

It's the same problem with Mirza. Teams target him when he is in the game. Players like Pattrick Petterson and Derrick Williams become stars vs his half-azz defense.

Im not going to argue with you regarding Lopez's offense, he is awesome. Everything you said about him offensively is true. He is pretty much unstoppable. But offense sells tickets, it doesnt win games. Players like Lopez, Mirza, Bogdanovic, DWill, Jack, DWill dont play defense and that's why we can lose to bad teams like Boston.

How about the fact we have a better defensive rating with Lopez on the court vs. Off and have for years?
Again all you can point to is pick and roll.

Rim protection
Blocked shots
Opponent point per possession .
Opponent point per post up
Team defensive rating

All say otherwise.

But pick and roll....

[F3LON]

No one is saying Lopez is great at defense but if you don't he would've helped what happened in the opener, you're delusional. That game was a disaster on both ends of the floor.

He wouldn't have guarded Sullinger/Olynyk 28 feet from the rim like KG and Plumlee did but that's a good thing. Let those scrubs chuck 3s. We were giving up layups because our bigs were planted at the 3 point line. Lopez would've made a concerted effort to stay closer to the paint. That would've been a plus right off the bat.

Now consider the fact that no one on the Celtics can dream of guarding Lopez - it would've been a completely different ball game. Offense was a MAJOR, MAJOR problem yesterday. It's why Hollins brought it up in the press conference.

We scored 43 points in the first half. The Celtics scored 67. 43 sounds okay IF you play at a slow pace. The game was being played at a pace that allowed the Celtics to score nearly 70. That means we used a TON of possessions and only scored 43. There's no way you can win. Even if we defended okay, we would've been down at least 10.

Lopez would've also put Plumlee in his natural role off the bench. The guy is clearly still trying to get it together. Seems like his head is in the clouds after the Team USA thing. Maybe he thought he'd have a starting spot and a bigger role on offense. I don't know what the deal is but I'm not liking where his focus is AT ALL.

It's not delusion, it's having an agenda and reputation to uphold and not admit being wrong or biased. One of these posters built his rep on hating Lopez and the other Teletovic..that will never change unless they make a new screen name.

I love this.

I am DWill-of-the-GODZ. I never hid that.

I didnt chose to switch my name. I was banned for being anti-Mirza. You of all people should know that being a moderator and all.

And you keep calling it an agenda because it differs with your opinion. I give irrefutable evidence on my opinions. To say otherwise is disingenuous. You might not agree with my opinion but i expect you to respect it.

[Trader_Joe]

No one is saying Lopez is great at defense but if you don't he would've helped what happened in the opener, you're delusional. That game was a disaster on both ends of the floor.

He wouldn't have guarded Sullinger/Olynyk 28 feet from the rim like KG and Plumlee did but that's a good thing. Let those scrubs chuck 3s. We were giving up layups because our bigs were planted at the 3 point line. Lopez would've made a concerted effort to stay closer to the paint. That would've been a plus right off the bat.

Now consider the fact that no one on the Celtics can dream of guarding Lopez - it would've been a completely different ball game. Offense was a MAJOR, MAJOR problem yesterday. It's why Hollins brought it up in the press conference.

We scored 43 points in the first half. The Celtics scored 67. 43 sounds okay IF you play at a slow pace. The game was being played at a pace that allowed the Celtics to score nearly 70. That means we used a TON of possessions and only scored 43. There's no way you can win. Even if we defended okay, we would've been down at least 10.

Lopez would've also put Plumlee in his natural role off the bench. The guy is clearly still trying to get it together. Seems like his head is in the clouds after the Team USA thing. Maybe he thought he'd have a starting spot and a bigger role on offense. I don't know what the deal is but I'm not liking where his focus is AT ALL.

It's not delusion, it's having an agenda and reputation to uphold and not admit being wrong or biased. One of these posters built his rep on hating Lopez and the other Teletovic..that will never change unless they make a new screen name.

I love this.

I am DWill-of-the-GODZ. I never hid that.

I didnt chose to switch my name. I was banned for being anti-Mirza. You of all people should know that being a moderator and all.

And you keep calling it an agenda because it differs with your opinion. I give irrefutable evidence on my opinions. To say otherwise is disingenuous. You might not agree with my opinion but i expect you to respect it.

Sorry I don't frequent these parts enough to know who is who.
Name sounds familiar and I think you were banned from ND too.
So if two major sites have banned you and don't respect your opinion, I should why exactly?

And I have no issue with disliking any Nets I have issue when it becomes your reputation and thus takes over every post or opinion. You lose objectivity and thus my respect at least.

BTW...there is nothing irrefutable about your points ..or mine.
To suggest otherwise further reinforces my lack of respect for your "opinion". Arrogance and ignorance are a dangerous mix.

[F3LON]

He simply mimicked your points so I see why you agree.

Because they make sense to anyone who have watched Lopez play. Lopez is NOT a good defensive player. Not even close. The Shaq's and Ewings of the old NBA dont exist anymore. Most teams dont have a true low post center and the ones that do dont run their offense through them. The only one I can even think of is Al Jefferson.

BTW..he was defending about 14 FGA in the paint last year...one of the highest because the guards can't stop penetration which completely nullifies that point.

How is that even calculated? Does that include PnR plays where Lopez gets burnt on (which is often) and his guy gets an easy score inside as the lead footed Lopez is still out on the perimeter? Yeah if Lopez can get back to the rim he will alter shots if not block them. But when Boston is running a 1-5 PnR out by the 3pt line I highly doubt Lopez would be able to cover that amount of floor.

Based on his overall Drtg/100 possession Lopez was one of the worst defenders out of all of our bigs last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2014.html

KG 101
Evans 104
Plumlee 104
Blatche 105
Lopez 108
Mirza 109

No shocks here as far as Im concerned. KG was by far our best defender. Lopez and Mirza are by far the worst.

This team is awful without Lopez and considering he may not be back anytime soon best we realize that...not that I expect people who have reputations and agendas to admit that since it would kill their narrative.

Meanwhile I love the one argument...he can't defend PNR...well neither can KG, Plumlee or any if our bigs as evidenced the other night. Try again.

I support my narrative with facts buddy. I provide video and stats. You call it an agenda I call it observation supported by data. I cant see how you refute my posts. Choosing cherry picked stats like % at the rim takes defense out of context. Teams dont attack your strength, they attack your weaknesses. Why challenge a 7'2" guy like Lopez inside where he wins due to his size when you can easily draw him away from the rim for easy buckets.

It's the same problem with Mirza. Teams target him when he is in the game. Players like Pattrick Petterson and Derrick Williams become stars vs his half-azz defense.

Im not going to argue with you regarding Lopez's offense, he is awesome. Everything you said about him offensively is true. He is pretty much unstoppable. But offense sells tickets, it doesnt win games. Players like Lopez, Mirza, Bogdanovic, DWill, Jack, DWill dont play defense and that's why we can lose to bad teams like Boston.

How about the fact we have a better defensive rating with Lopez on the court vs. Off and have for years?
Again all you can point to is pick and roll.

Rim protection
Blocked shots
Opponent point per possession .
Opponent point per post up
Team defensive rating

All say otherwise.

But pick and roll....

A healthy Lopez is our best player. His offensive production outweighs his defensive shortcomings. That's Proky who thinks he is a scrub. Mirza on the other hand hurts us more then he helps us in my opinion.

I dont think he is a good defender though. If blocks=good defense then Javale McGee would be one of the best defenders in the NBA. I listed Lopez's Drtg though and he was only better then Mirza so I dont know where you are getting your info from. i listed the link from source.

When you look at the team as a whole though moving Lopez impacts the team the most. We have a number of scoring options. What we dont have is a good defense. No position impacts defense more then center. Unless we make wholesale changes at the other 4 positions I dont see how we improve much with Lopez at center. You can blame BK because he built this team around DWill instead of Lopez. He should have went for players like Iggy and Josh Smith who can defend and play in transition to offset Lopez's lack of athleticism. Instead we have the slowest center (Lopez), SF (Johnson) and PG (DWill). This team is poorly constructed and needs to be blown up IMO.

[Trader_Joe]

As for offenwe only players and teams...Suns, Warriors Nuggets etc.. All have shown you can win in the RS with offense which is all I want and what we're talking about here. Meanwhile of those players only one can claim their offense can also be their defense...Lopez. He slows the game down which a slow team like us needs, he gets opposing bigs into foul trouble and keeps defenses humble and exhausted guarding him.

[F3LON]

It's not delusion, it's having an agenda and reputation to uphold and not admit being wrong or biased. One of these posters built his rep on hating Lopez and the other Teletovic..that will never change unless they make a new screen name.

I love this.

I am DWill-of-the-GODZ. I never hid that.

I didnt chose to switch my name. I was banned for being anti-Mirza. You of all people should know that being a moderator and all.

And you keep calling it an agenda because it differs with your opinion. I give irrefutable evidence on my opinions. To say otherwise is disingenuous. You might not agree with my opinion but i expect you to respect it.

Sorry I don't frequent these parts enough to know who is who.
Name sounds familiar and I think you were banned from ND too.
So if two major sites have banned you and don't respect your opinion, I should why exactly?

And I have no issue with disliking any Nets I have issue when it becomes your reputation and thus takes over every post or opinion. You lose objectivity and thus my respect at least.

BTW...there is nothing irrefutable about your points ..or mine.
To suggest otherwise further reinforces my lack of respect for your "opinion". Arrogance and ignorance are a dangerous mix.

At one point my opinion was respected enough to meet with the Nets front office. Can you say the same? I have had dinner with Bobby Marks, have you?

You are trying to use guilt by association. Does this validate me now? SMH

[Trader_Joe]

Because they make sense to anyone who have watched Lopez play. Lopez is NOT a good defensive player. Not even close. The Shaq's and Ewings of the old NBA dont exist anymore. Most teams dont have a true low post center and the ones that do dont run their offense through them. The only one I can even think of is Al Jefferson.



How is that even calculated? Does that include PnR plays where Lopez gets burnt on (which is often) and his guy gets an easy score inside as the lead footed Lopez is still out on the perimeter? Yeah if Lopez can get back to the rim he will alter shots if not block them. But when Boston is running a 1-5 PnR out by the 3pt line I highly doubt Lopez would be able to cover that amount of floor.

Based on his overall Drtg/100 possession Lopez was one of the worst defenders out of all of our bigs last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2014.html

KG 101
Evans 104
Plumlee 104
Blatche 105
Lopez 108
Mirza 109

No shocks here as far as Im concerned. KG was by far our best defender. Lopez and Mirza are by far the worst.




I support my narrative with facts buddy. I provide video and stats. You call it an agenda I call it observation supported by data. I cant see how you refute my posts. Choosing cherry picked stats like % at the rim takes defense out of context. Teams dont attack your strength, they attack your weaknesses. Why challenge a 7'2" guy like Lopez inside where he wins due to his size when you can easily draw him away from the rim for easy buckets.

It's the same problem with Mirza. Teams target him when he is in the game. Players like Pattrick Petterson and Derrick Williams become stars vs his half-azz defense.

Im not going to argue with you regarding Lopez's offense, he is awesome. Everything you said about him offensively is true. He is pretty much unstoppable. But offense sells tickets, it doesnt win games. Players like Lopez, Mirza, Bogdanovic, DWill, Jack, DWill dont play defense and that's why we can lose to bad teams like Boston.

How about the fact we have a better defensive rating with Lopez on the court vs. Off and have for years?
Again all you can point to is pick and roll.

Rim protection
Blocked shots
Opponent point per possession .
Opponent point per post up
Team defensive rating

All say otherwise.

But pick and roll....

A healthy Lopez is our best player. His offensive production outweighs his defensive shortcomings. That's Proky who thinks he is a scrub. Mirza on the other hand hurts us more then he helps us in my opinion.

I dont think he is a good defender though. If blocks=good defense then Javale McGee would be one of the best defenders in the NBA. I listed Lopez's Drtg though and he was only better then Mirza so I dont know where you are getting your info from. i listed the link from source.

When you look at the team as a whole though moving Lopez impacts the team the most. We have a number of scoring options. What we dont have is a good defense. No position impacts defense more then center. Unless we make wholesale changes at the other 4 positions I dont see how we improve much with Lopez at center. You can blame BK because he built this team around DWill instead of Lopez. He should have went for players like Iggy and Josh Smith who can defend and play in transition to offset Lopez's lack of athleticism. Instead we have the slowest center (Lopez), SF (Johnson) and PG (DWill). This team is poorly constructed and needs to be blown up IMO.

You can't build around Lopez because he's not reliable.
You can't blow up this team until 2016 since we have toxic contracts.
We have to rely on what we have, which are slow players. Adding speed is somewhat counter productive.

[Trader_Joe]

I love this.

I am DWill-of-the-GODZ. I never hid that.

I didnt chose to switch my name. I was banned for being anti-Mirza. You of all people should know that being a moderator and all.

And you keep calling it an agenda because it differs with your opinion. I give irrefutable evidence on my opinions. To say otherwise is disingenuous. You might not agree with my opinion but i expect you to respect it.

Sorry I don't frequent these parts enough to know who is who.
Name sounds familiar and I think you were banned from ND too.
So if two major sites have banned you and don't respect your opinion, I should why exactly?

And I have no issue with disliking any Nets I have issue when it becomes your reputation and thus takes over every post or opinion. You lose objectivity and thus my respect at least.

BTW...there is nothing irrefutable about your points ..or mine.
To suggest otherwise further reinforces my lack of respect for your "opinion". Arrogance and ignorance are a dangerous mix.

At one point my opinion was respected enough to meet with the Nets front office. Can you say the same? I have had dinner with Bobby Marks, have you?

You are trying to use guilt by association. Does this validate me now? SMH

At one point...so what happened?
No one cares who you like or don't like. Critical thinking is needed. Clearly people's opinion of you changed or you changed. Which is it and why?
Why when I think of you or Prok do immediate stereotypes of your opinions come to mind?
Why don't I have these same presumptions about others?
IMO it's because others are dynamic in their opinions and I can't pigien hole them.

[F3LON]

As for offenwe only players and teams...Suns, Warriors Nuggets etc.. All have shown you can win in the RS with offense which is all I want and what we're talking about here. Meanwhile of those players only one can claim their offense can also be their defense...Lopez. He slows the game down which a slow team like us needs, he gets opposing bigs into foul trouble and keeps defenses humble and exhausted guarding him.

The difference between those teams and ours is they can all play fast.

The Nets pace is that of a defensive team. We get ZERO points in transition because we are lousy at rebounding and slow.

Our offense is methodical. Lopez and JJ are very deliberate with their offense. We make it easy to defend. The common factor on all of those teams is a PG who can penetrate. Bledsoe/Thomas, Curry/Thompson, Lawson. We have DWill who never pushes pace and never drives to the rim.

[F3LON]

Sorry I don't frequent these parts enough to know who is who.
Name sounds familiar and I think you were banned from ND too.
So if two major sites have banned you and don't respect your opinion, I should why exactly?

And I have no issue with disliking any Nets I have issue when it becomes your reputation and thus takes over every post or opinion. You lose objectivity and thus my respect at least.

BTW...there is nothing irrefutable about your points ..or mine.
To suggest otherwise further reinforces my lack of respect for your "opinion". Arrogance and ignorance are a dangerous mix.

At one point my opinion was respected enough to meet with the Nets front office. Can you say the same? I have had dinner with Bobby Marks, have you?

You are trying to use guilt by association. Does this validate me now? SMH

At one point...so what happened?
No one cares who you like or don't like. Critical thinking is needed. Clearly people's opinion of you changed or you changed. Which is it and why?
Why when I think of you or Prok do immediate stereotypes of your opinions come to mind?
Why don't I have these same presumptions about others?
IMO it's because others are dynamic in their opinions and I can't pigien hole them.

Why would my opinion change if the player doesnt?

I think it would be great if Mirza played defense or if Lopez moved his feet faster. It would make the Nets a much better team. I dont surcome to group think. I form my own opinions based on what I see. I see the same faults and mistakes over and over. I'll still follow the team and root for their success but I hope the team makes changes. I use to have season tickets just when the Nets got good with Kidd/Kenyon/Kittles/RJ/etc. That team was a joy to watch. This team is hard to root for when you have guys give half hearted effort like they did in Boston. It's one thing to lose to a better team, it's another to lose because we are unprepared, players come to camp out of shape, and players miss assignments.

[Prokorov]

dont mind TJ, he is just an enormous lopez homer. its not worth your breath.... lopez is apperantly some great rim protector now.

[Trader_Joe]

dont mind TJ, he is just an enormous lopez homer. its not worth your breath.... lopez is apperantly some great rim protector now.

Just because I don't try to trade him away for meaningless 2015 cap space and bash him every chance I get doesnt means I'm a Lopez homer. He's in my avy since he's one of our few drafted players whose been here for a long while and always wanted to be here despite the all the trade rumors. Unfortunately we don't really have a ton of likable players who are about the team.

And yes the stats show he is a great rim protector (blocked shots, opponent FG% at the rim) but more importantly he's our best (only) rim protector which is kind of important given how terrible our guards are at letting players go to the rim. Funny how opposing announcers even recognize it as do 90% of the fans, but you see something we don't.

But yeah...this team is much better without him and Plumlee in his place.

Anyway I'll stop arguing with the PBPs.

[Prokorov]

dont mind TJ, he is just an enormous lopez homer. its not worth your breath.... lopez is apperantly some great rim protector now.

Just because I don't try to trade him away for meaningless 2015 cap space and bash him every chance I get doesnt means I'm a Lopez homer. He's in my avy since he's one of our few drafted players whose been here for a long while and always wanted to be here despite the all the trade rumors. Unfortunately we don't really have a ton of likable players who are about the team.

And yes the stats show he is a great rim protector (blocked shots, opponent FG% at the rim) but more importantly he's our best (only) rim protector which is kind of important given how terrible our guards are at letting players go to the rim. Funny how opposing announcers even recognize it as do 90% of the fans, but you see something we don't.

But yeah...this team is much better without him and Plumlee in his place.

Anyway I'll stop arguing with the PBPs.

not only is lopez not a good rim protector, he is one of the worst you'll find. he is super slow and his low bbiq leads to him not even challenging alot of plays. gaurds finish past him or at him with regularity. he alters very few shots.

The stats you use for rim protection are pretty poor:

Blocks: This really doesnt tell you anything about how good of a rim protector you are. the best shot blockers block 2 or 3 shots a game. there are like 50-80 FGA per game per team. 2 or 3 is irrelevant to how you protect the rim over the course of your 30-40 minutes. there are plenty of shot blockers who are great defenders and plenty who are bad defenders.

opponent FG% at the rim: probably the most worthless stat for rim protection. first off, it doesnt include plays where you foul someone on an attempt at the rim. which is pretty frequent, as fouls down count as shot attempts even though you get a trip to the FT line.... thats why we use stuff like TS% and not raw FG% when evaluating offense..... also the end result is whats more important then how long it took to get there. if you for a miss but the guy just corralls it and throws it down it still counts as 2 points.... and it really gives 0 context on how many shots at the rim you allow in the first place.



ill take a guy who allows 100% FG at the rim but only allows 2 or 3 attempts a game over a guy who allows 40% FG at the rim but allows 12 or 14 attempts a game. being a rim protect isnt just about stopping FG attempts at the rim, its about preventing guys from being in position to even take those shots.

either way, anyone with a set of eyeballs who doesnt have a perscription for rose colored glass knows lopez isnt very good defensively, especially at protecting the rim. no gaurds fear him, and anyone with a head of steam has an automatic 2 points. he had 2 blocks last night, great.... his defense probably cost us the game

[Trader_Joe]

dont mind TJ, he is just an enormous lopez homer. its not worth your breath.... lopez is apperantly some great rim protector now.

Just because I don't try to trade him away for meaningless 2015 cap space and bash him every chance I get doesnt means I'm a Lopez homer. He's in my avy since he's one of our few drafted players whose been here for a long while and always wanted to be here despite the all the trade rumors. Unfortunately we don't really have a ton of likable players who are about the team.

And yes the stats show he is a great rim protector (blocked shots, opponent FG% at the rim) but more importantly he's our best (only) rim protector which is kind of important given how terrible our guards are at letting players go to the rim. Funny how opposing announcers even recognize it as do 90% of the fans, but you see something we don't.

But yeah...this team is much better without him and Plumlee in his place.

Anyway I'll stop arguing with the PBPs.

not only is lopez not a good rim protector, he is one of the worst you'll find. he is super slow and his low bbiq leads to him not even challenging alot of plays. gaurds finish past him or at him with regularity. he alters very few shots.

The stats you use for rim protection are pretty poor:

Blocks: This really doesnt tell you anything about how good of a rim protector you are. the best shot blockers block 2 or 3 shots a game. there are like 50-80 FGA per game per team. 2 or 3 is irrelevant to how you protect the rim over the course of your 30-40 minutes. there are plenty of shot blockers who are great defenders and plenty who are bad defenders.

opponent FG% at the rim: probably the most worthless stat for rim protection. first off, it doesnt include plays where you foul someone on an attempt at the rim. which is pretty frequent, as fouls down count as shot attempts even though you get a trip to the FT line.... thats why we use stuff like TS% and not raw FG% when evaluating offense..... also the end result is whats more important then how long it took to get there. if you for a miss but the guy just corralls it and throws it down it still counts as 2 points.... and it really gives 0 context on how many shots at the rim you allow in the first place.



ill take a guy who allows 100% FG at the rim but only allows 2 or 3 attempts a game over a guy who allows 40% FG at the rim but allows 12 or 14 attempts a game. being a rim protect isnt just about stopping FG attempts at the rim, its about preventing guys from being in position to even take those shots.

either way, anyone with a set of eyeballs who doesnt have a perscription for rose colored glass knows lopez isnt very good defensively, especially at protecting the rim. no gaurds fear him, and anyone with a head of steam has an automatic 2 points. he had 2 blocks last night, great.... his defense probably cost us the game

Points per post up?
He was elite there too.
So Blocked Shots, Opponent FG% in the paint and PPP all were among the leaders last year.
What other stats are there to use? Any that support your argument?

Funny (sad actually) how you probably hoped and waited all night for him to have a bad game so you could reply to me like you always do. He's played 57 minutes since last December.. and yeah he's looked awful on O and D so far. Shocking. He's not in game shape, he's lost weight and he's out of rhythm. Maybe we should judge him after 10 games or so?