Game Thread: Nets @ Warriors 11/13/14 10:30pm TNT

[Prokorov]

This looks eerily similar to the knicks last season.... opinion was they were a playoff lock, but just kept get exposed more and more until they became the joke of the league.

[MGrand15]

Welp.

2 games since JJ blasted us for selfishness. 2 games where our offense goes in the TANK for long stretches. I think it's made everyone more hesitant.

More hesitant? guys are jacking up shots like nobodies business. shot jacking has been at an all time high the last 6 quarters.

I'm okay with bad defense. We have personnel issues and bad defenders. We're going to do NOTHING if we can't score at an average rate.

we are top 5 in the league in FG percentage and oRTG... even WITH how poor weve been. we arent beating anyone playing defense like this. our defense isnt bad, its embarassing.

no one should be ok with bad defense, especially since its more effort and focus then it is personel. we shouldnt be allowing 40 and 50 points in the paint every night and giving so many wide open layups

I don't care about top 5 in the league. We played the Knicks, OKC, Detroit and Boston to pad up our offensive stats.

3 of our 4 losses involved us not being able to score for a half or more. The Minnesota loss was also a bad offensive showing against that type of defense.

Our bad offense has been just as much because of focus and effort. It's not like we're just missing great looks out there.

[Prokorov]

I don't care about top 5 in the league. We played the Knicks, OKC, Detroit and Boston to pad up our offensive stats.

3 of our 4 losses involved us not being able to score for a half or more. The Minnesota loss was also a bad offensive showing against that type of defense.

Our bad offense has been just as much because of focus and effort. It's not like we're just missing great looks out there.

We are scoring 105 points a game. i understand what you are getting at, but the bottom line is we arent going to score 110 or 115 consistently... and if we play the way we are playing that is what is going to be required to win.

We cant possibly play good enough offense to overcome how bad our defense is right now. you cant give up 40-50 points in the paint and expect to win games. our offense is ugly but our defense is so far and away a bigger problem that it isnt even worth discussing if the D cant improve in a major way.

Look at how many wide open layups we give up, how many offensive rebounds, how many open 3s, how often we send teams to the line. you simply cant win like that, even with a 92 dream team type offense

[kerry kittles]

Also, very impressed by Bogut's stat line and overall impact throughout the game.

11 point on 4/7 3/5, 14 rebounds, 5 assists, 4 blocks

Bogut had 5 times as many assists tonight as Lopez has had all season. Brook's forcing on offense, not getting teammates involved, and that's not to mention defense/rebounding.

The offense is flowing through Bogut. He's find guys in positions where they can score, anchoring a defense, and getting his team extra possessions.

[Prokorov]

watching the second half again... our defense from our bigs is as bad as it can possibly get... regardless of 1 on 1, post D, help D, pick and roll D. all just non exsistant.

so many weakly contested layups, and just slow to move which put us out of rebounding position. KG man i really dont know what was up with him.. maybe the back to backs but he was awful. plumlee was just lost out there... its like he is so scared to pick up fouls that he doesnt even try and get in good position. Brook was just super soft and and too slow to react

the big issue is no one is scared to attack our bigs. and they do it with frequency

[NyCeEvO]

This looks eerily similar to the knicks last season.... opinion was they were a playoff lock, but just kept get exposed more and more until they became the joke of the league.

Some of us *cough cough* had us barely making the playoffs, if at all.

[Prokorov]

This looks eerily similar to the knicks last season.... opinion was they were a playoff lock, but just kept get exposed more and more until they became the joke of the league.

Some of us *cough cough* had us barely making the playoffs, if at all.

i still think we win 43ish games and get in... there are just too many bad teams and we still have joe and deron. which is enough to get by the phillys and milwaukees of the world.

but its gonna be ugly and painful like it was 2 years ago

[Paradise]

Yes, expressing frustration after a win... to the media...before talking to any of your teammates...and then the next day repeat the same thing without talking your teammates yet again.

And being useless two games after you call everyone else out.

I thought he was doing the right thing but I quickly take that back. It ruined our rhythm.

I'm fine if you think it was bad going public liek joe did... i disagree but i can see that opinion...

but "ruined our rhythm"? what rhythm, we were playing awful vs awful teams. the wolves and magic games were 2 of our worst efforts in a long time

We weren't falling apart in halfs before his selfish comments and he wasn't shots until he made those comments.

The whole 'against bad teams' argument is also inaccurate. We can score with ease on Phoenix and Golden State but completely abandon the things that worked to build a significant lead. Deron scores 29 vs the Knicks, Bojan scores 20 vs the Magic and now both have deferred to Joe since Sunday.

Those comments ruined the natural flow and growth the team built. He could've addressed his concern about lazy effort without saying 'selfish' or any other colorful words.

[Prokorov]

We weren't falling apart in halfs before his selfish comments and he wasn't shots until he made those comments.

The whole 'against bad teams' argument is also inaccurate. We can score with ease on Phoenix and Golden State but completely abandon the things that worked to build a significant lead.

we certainly fell apart in the second half in other games. our second halfs vs the celtics and wolves were terrible. the entire 4th vs the wolves was as bad as it gets. alot of it was just masked because those teams are so bad.

we arent playing worse then earlier, we are just playing better teams who can exploit it.

Joe Johnson isnt the kind of guy to just make things up in order to stir up the locker room and upset people. CLEARLY there are issues. maybe he was wrong to call out the team in public, but lets not pretend there werent major issues

offense wasnt the issue the last 2 nights... the offense wasnt great, but it wasnt why we lost. we lost both of these games because of defense.

[MrDollarBills]

Those comments ruined the natural flow and growth the team built. He could've addressed his concern about lazy effort without saying 'selfish' or any other colorful words.

The team is god awful defensively. I don't think scoring is the problem here.

[MrDollarBills]

We weren't falling apart in halfs before his selfish comments and he wasn't shots until he made those comments.

The whole 'against bad teams' argument is also inaccurate. We can score with ease on Phoenix and Golden State but completely abandon the things that worked to build a significant lead.

we certainly fell apart in the second half in other games. our second halfs vs the celtics and wolves were terrible. the entire 4th vs the wolves was as bad as it gets. alot of it was just masked because those teams are so bad.

we arent playing worse then earlier, we are just playing better teams who can exploit it.

Joe Johnson isnt the kind of guy to just make things up in order to stir up the locker room and upset people. CLEARLY there are issues. maybe he was wrong to call out the team in public, but lets not pretend there werent major issues

offense wasnt the issue the last 2 nights... the offense wasnt great, but it wasnt why we lost. we lost both of these games because of defense.

Exactly. I don't think our offense is remotely bad.

If the Nets cannot get some semblance of team defense going here this will be a long year. We are going to lose against Portland as well.

So much for that good start!

[Keith Van Horn]

Didn't watch the game b/c of the late start, and was totally expecting a loss.

Still thinking it's going to take time for this team to fully realize who they are and how good they can be if they play defense. Hollins is still getting ahold of the reigns here I believe. I think they're going to improve defensively.... but a lot depends on Lopez IMO.

I'm just imagining if you swapped out Lopez (more skilled offensive center) for a guy like Noah/M. Gasol/Hibbert (more skilled defensive player).... I think overall our team would improve.

[Prokorov]

Didn't watch the game b/c of the late start, and was totally expecting a loss.

Still thinking it's going to take time for this team to fully realize who they are and how good they can be if they play defense. Hollins is still getting ahold of the reigns here I believe. I think they're going to improve defensively.... but a lot depends on Lopez IMO.

I'm just imagining if you swapped out Lopez (more skilled offensive center) for a guy like Noah/M. Gasol/Hibbert (more skilled defensive player).... I think overall our team would improve.

its alot more then lopez right now. all of our bigs are playing extremely poor defense. and our gaurds werent great defenders to begin with. its team wide major issue. defense and effort.

[CalamityX12]

I got to agree on Paradise with the JJ shoutout... I luv the guy even before he became a NET...

But right now, 0-2 after the "outburst" is really hard to ignore to connect the two together...

You can knock the opposition we were playing all you want but we were in a rhythm on both sides.... we were weak vs boston n minny cuz the team didn't take them lightly...

Plumlee is playing out of form for some reason(Hollins system?) KG was awful defensively IMO, Boogie got ignored offensively, Dwill playing the whole 3rd Qtr wasn't smart on Hollins IMO and Lopez is absolutely killing me right now... more n more soft, if he doesn't listen and tries to change it up then we have to consider a change.

Then theres JJ, who did not look good offensively but somehow has the #s and was poor defensively. Is that on the selfish team Joe?

[kerry kittles]

And being useless two games after you call everyone else out.

I thought he was doing the right thing but I quickly take that back. It ruined our rhythm.

I'm fine if you think it was bad going public liek joe did... i disagree but i can see that opinion...

but "ruined our rhythm"? what rhythm, we were playing awful vs awful teams. the wolves and magic games were 2 of our worst efforts in a long time

We weren't falling apart in halfs before his selfish comments and he wasn't shots until he made those comments.

The whole 'against bad teams' argument is also inaccurate. We can score with ease on Phoenix and Golden State but completely abandon the things that worked to build a significant lead. Deron scores 29 vs the Knicks, Bojan scores 20 vs the Magic and now both have deferred to Joe since Sunday.

Those comments ruined the natural flow and growth the team built. He could've addressed his concern about lazy effort without saying 'selfish' or any other colorful words.

We fell apart before half last night - we actually outscored them in the 2nd half.

I said it at the time and ill repeat Joe should've called out our defensive efforts. Pinning these 2 losses on Joe is ridiculous. We haven't defended well this entire season and it's gotten exposed against good teams. You think if Joe hadnt said anything we'd be any better than 0-2 on this road trip?

As for Bojan he's a rookie and a role player - you have to expect inconsistency and him to struggle more - I think people are reaching big time and making Joe the scapegoat and refusing to look at big issues our team has had defensively

[kerry kittles]

And just to reiterate, y'all can keep talking offense all you want:

- 100 points given up to the Celtics in 3 quarters
- 20 plus points given up to Suns and Wolves in the final 6 minutes of those games
- 66 points given up to the Warriors at half and 14 offensive rebounds allowed. We gave the best offensive team so many 2nd-3rd chances.

How many teams do things like that and expect to win?

[jeff1624]

And just to reiterate, y'all can keep talking offense all you want:

- 100 points given up to the Celtics in 3 quarters
- 20 plus points given up to Suns and Wolves in the final 6 minutes of those games
- 66 points given up to the Warriors at half and 14 offensive rebounds allowed. We gave the best offensive team so many 2nd-3rd chances.

How many teams do things like that and expect to win?

The defense is a hot mess. We have bigs that are irrelevant down low. Brook is slower and seems more hesitant to push any pressure on his foot. Plumlee is just terrible, he has little to no defensive awareness whatsoever. KG is old. Mirza is well, mirza... can't expect tooo much defensively out of him.

Then you have the guards. Bogs is a rookie so there will be growing pains. Jack is sieve. Joe is slow. Deron isn't mch better.

We have no plus defender really.

[Paradise]

And just to reiterate, y'all can keep talking offense all you want:

- 100 points given up to the Celtics in 3 quarters
- 20 plus points given up to Suns and Wolves in the final 6 minutes of those games
- 66 points given up to the Warriors at half and 14 offensive rebounds allowed. We gave the best offensive team so many 2nd-3rd chances.

How many teams do things like that and expect to win?

I've been concerned about our defense since day 1. We don't get back in transition, Lopez and Plumlee don't contest anything at the rim or through PnR.

At least, Bojan and Deron competed hard on defense. Our bigs embarrassed themselves.

[Lamak]

Fell asleep before the game finished last night but caught the highlights. Nets started playing so terrible in the 2nd half.

Gonna quote from the Suns thread

I'm not sure what our best frontcourt lineup is. Mirza/KG seems good on paper, but Mirza literally doesn't protect the rim and also doesn't gobble up rebounds. KG/Lopez is far too slow to work. Plumlee/KG is no offense. Plumlee/Lopez is still a work in progress.

Seems like that's gonna be our problem the entire season until someone steps up.

[kerry kittles]

And just to reiterate, y'all can keep talking offense all you want:

- 100 points given up to the Celtics in 3 quarters
- 20 plus points given up to Suns and Wolves in the final 6 minutes of those games
- 66 points given up to the Warriors at half and 14 offensive rebounds allowed. We gave the best offensive team so many 2nd-3rd chances.

How many teams do things like that and expect to win?

The defense is a hot mess. We have bigs that are irrelevant down low. Brook is slower and seems more hesitant to push any pressure on his foot. Plumlee is just terrible, he has little to no defensive awareness whatsoever. KG is old. Mirza is well, mirza... can't expect tooo much defensively out of him.

Then you have the guards. Bogs is a rookie so there will be growing pains. Jack is sieve. Joe is slow. Deron isn't mch better.

We have no plus defender really.

I would flip Lopez for Hibbert in a second, a move most of this forum hasn't really been for. The pacers are 6th in drtg this year despite PG's abscence. It unfortunately won't like happen due to Brook's injury concerns and play, but the fit would be great for us as we have enough offensive fire power on the roster and the contracts align.

Yes, our defensive personnel isn't great. I just had higher hopes for Hollins as a coach and our players responding to him and playing with greater effort. You look at Thibs and I know it's huge having Noah to anchor the defense and butler on the wing. So yes, those 2 guys are the key cogs primarily responsible for the Bulls defensive play, but Thibs has elevated the defensive play of the other guys and got them to buy into what he's preaching.

Everyone said Gasol was a turnstyle going to adversely affect the Bulls D as he wasn't great with the Lakers, but has elevated his play with the Bulls. People questioned Dunleavy and how he'd hurt their D when Deng was shipped out and also when they signed him and he's now playing very solid D. Augustin - held his own last year without Rose. Thibs squeezes the most out of his players - I had higher hopes for our D under a defensive minded coach like Hollins thinking he'd squeeze everything out of these guys.