The Official Ben Simmons Thread

[ecuhus1981]

Forgive me if I'm duplicating, I checked a few pages back on our board. I don't think we've ever created an official Ben Simmons thread. Lots of topics about him, but I figured it was time for a catch-all bucket.

It seems as though Ben's recovery, sound bytes and on court performance will be the loudest cannon of this Nets season. For better or worse, he is the face of the franchise from an outsider's perspective.

So, what do we make of his recent comments? He is not yet cleared for 5-on-5 drills, yet Simmons claims he is 100% and ready to dominate players. I hear the bravado, and maybe he's willing it into existence. I don't hear the leadership or the accountability to others, which concerns me.

Ben has always been a force of nature, a one man fast break, lock down 1v1 defender and instant offense creator. This is mostly due to his rare physical tools. However, the back injuries have taken that advantage from him. Even if he is 100%, there is a great risk of re-injury. Can he adapt his play style? Can he accept a subservient role, where he may not have the ball in his hands with the 1st unit?

Discuss.

[Rastas]

Its all wait and see.
But signs from multiple sources are suggesting he is back.
Not long now and we will all know.

[zimpy27]

I think Bens best chance to become an All-NBA player again is to be given the ball as the PG of the team.
Mikal, DFS, CamJ, Claxton are perfect players to allow him be the PG.

Taking him off ball reduces his effectiveness on offense. That's why it didn't look great with Durant and Kyrie even though he was not right fully.

You have to look at what GSW did with Draymond. They had this dynamic player in Draymond that was elite defensively. He was a poor fit offensively on GSW (Draymond was a scorer in college) and they had Curry who had great playmaking chops, elite ball handling and ATG shooting ability. They decided to keep their ATG defender on the court that they needed to run an efficient offense where he was onball and an integral playmaker, that meant taking Curry off ball.

Simmons needs to be on ball to stay relevant in the offense. Creating an efficient playoff offense with Simmons on ball is key IMO. That's the aim to unlocking Simmons and this Nets team.

[zimpy27]

As an aside. If Nets could get Lillard without giving up Mikal+Simmons then they could really go towards recreating a GSW-type system with Simmons, Mikal, Lillard.

[CalamityX12]

Wait n see.

Don't believe a damn word from Simmons, his camp, his social media nor our own organization

The court will do the talking

[Tha King]

If you look at his per 36 stats, his numbers beyond scoring were very comparable to his last season with the Sixers. His defense was also surprisingly good considering he clearly wasn't the same athletically. I say that to say, it wouldn't be a surprise to me if he could be a valuable contributor this season as he's further removed from his injury.

However, even when he was at his best in Philly he was too one dimensional of a player offensively to run an offense around. You also have to question the fit next to Claxton. So even if he's out there consistently, the best spot for him might be as the back up PG, at least early on and then take things from there. I actually think him leading the bench with Cam Thomas and spacers around him would be a great fit.

Din/Simmons
Bridges/Thomas
CJ/Walker
DFS/O'Neale
Clax/Sharpe

[Tha King]

I will say, if somehow Claxton and Simmons could play together effectively on offense, and Simmons gets closer to the defensive player he was on the Sixers, that has the makings of an incredible defensive duo. Would be two among the very few 1-5 defenders in the league on the same team. And you still have Bridges, DFS, O'Neale, etc.

[ecuhus1981]

If you look at his per 36 stats, his numbers beyond scoring were very comparable to his last season with the Sixers. His defense was also surprisingly good considering he clearly wasn't the same athletically. I say that to say, it wouldn't be a surprise to me if he could be a valuable contributor this season as he's further removed from his injury.

However, even when he was at his best in Philly he was too one dimensional of a player offensively to run an offense around. You also have to question the fit next to Claxton. So even if he's out there consistently, the best spot for him might be as the back up PG, at least early on and then take things from there. I actually think him leading the bench with Cam Thomas and spacers around him would be a great fit.

Din/Simmons
Bridges/Thomas
CJ/Walker
DFS/O'Neale
Clax/Sharpe

I feel similarly.

He might indeed be better than last season. Still, I really dislike the idea of kowtowing to Ben's best interests. "What's great for him without asking him to grow his game at all" is a recipe for all-around disappointment.

Ben can either collapse an opposing defense with his dribble drive, or he can't. We can't indulge him with a primary ball-handling role if he's tentative to drive or shoot. IF he can, he belongs with the starting unit. I would actually keep Spencer with him, and use him as a secondary creator. I like Mikal better at the 3 and Johnson at the 4 anyway.

BEST CASE SCENARIO DEPTH CHART

SImmons, DInwiddie, Bridges, Johnson, Claxton
Smith, Thomas, O'Neale, Finney-Smith, Sharpe

[ChuckS]

This is an interesting thread. But although it seems doubtful right now, does anyone else think that there is still a possibility of getting Herro? With Simmons starting, Tyler's defense would be offset by playing with four defenders, two of whom are also substantial perimeter scoring threats. Except for the exceptionalism of Curry, we could be something in the pattern of GSW. Of course it would probably mean losing DFS, but perhaps we could still keep Royce by using some combination of our new hires for salary matching purposes. And our bench would be stronger with Spencer as sixth man, potentially with Cam T, Royce, Sharpe, and any remaining newbies like DSJ and/or Walker, or rookies who prove to be playable.

If we also lose O'Neale, of course, our depth would be more uncertain. But this hasn't seemed like a Marks summer to me, in spite of our excitement about a timeline. We've picked up some bigs, but truthfully not what I expected. I still hope that before it is all over, he will slip one, more proven, into our larger exception, which will still avoid the luxury tax.

Of course much depends on Ben. But if I'm being too optimistic, we could just switch Ben with Spencer. And if we do not get Herro, some of the proposed lineups above with DFS and Royce, should still be competitive, if IMO somewhat less so if we do not already have another potential scoring talent already onboard.

[ecuhus1981]

This is an interesting thread. But although it seems doubtful right now, does anyone else think that there is still a possibility of getting Herro? With Simmons starting, Tyler's defense would be offset by playing with four defenders, two of whom are also substantial perimeter scoring threats. Except for the exceptionalism of Curry, we could be something in the pattern of GSW. Of course it would probably mean losing DFS, but perhaps we could still keep Royce by using some combination of our new hires for salary matching purposes. And our bench would be stronger with Spencer as sixth man, potentially with Cam T, Royce, Sharpe, and any remaining newbies like DSJ and/or Walker, or rookies who prove to be playable.

If we also lose O'Neale, of course, our depth would be more uncertain. But this hasn't seemed like a Marks summer to me, in spite of our excitement about a timeline. We've picked up some bigs, but truthfully not what I expected. I still hope that before it is all over, he will slip one, more proven, into our larger exception, which will still avoid the luxury tax.

Of course much depends on Ben. But if I'm being too optimistic, we could just switch Ben with Spencer. And if we do not get Herro, some of the proposed lineups above with DFS and Royce, should still be competitive, if IMO somewhat less so if we do not already have another potential scoring talent already onboard.

So, here's my reservation about Herro.

1, he's not as good as Spencer right now. Maybe he will be better than Dinwiddie by the end of the season or next, but we don't have the leeway to get worse temporarily and still make the playoffs. Anyway, if we're keeping Ben and Mikal, we're probably gonna need to trade Spence to match salary. If we don't, I don't love pairing the two of them.

2, Miami is asking for a kings ransom for him. No thank you. I'm not high on Kevin Porter Jr, but he's more of the PoA defender, P&R creator that we need.

[Stone]

Latest word is that Ben is cleared for 5 on 5 contact. No restrictions. The injury aside, he has not put that much wear and tear on himself over the last two plus seasons. So that should be in his favor long term.

There is some pressure on Ben. Our success or failure this upcoming season is hinged on him one way or another. With Ben saying he wants to be our point guard he is already accepting the responsibility of the floor general.

I really hope Bridges "Iron man" mentality rubs off on Ben.

[djsunyc]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[ecuhus1981]

I've seen a clip of him dunking, and I've seen him running and dribbling without wincing. His shot form is still Joakim level bad, but the rest is promising.

Let's all hope for a stress free, drama free transition back to greatness for Simmons. I'm still holding my breath, waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Papi_swav]

*yawn* I believe it when I see it

[MGrand15]

I'm not buying into Ben buzz. I think he'll be a bit better but I'm not expecting Philly Ben.

If his explosion was really back, I think the team would be going crazy. Talking about how he's dunking everything and going off in training. What I'm hearing now from players sounds like guys trying to be nice and build up his confidence.

Would love to be wrong.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm not buying into Ben buzz. I think he'll be a bit better but I'm not expecting Philly Ben.

If his explosion was really back, I think the team would be going crazy. Talking about how he's dunking everything and going off in training. What I'm hearing now from players sounds like guys trying to be nice and build up his confidence.

Would love to be wrong.

I’m not buying yet either, but athletes are often also very superstitious and they’re also probably over Ben’s bull lol, so it could also be that.

[3pt_chucker]

One thing about the discourse around Ben that I feel like is never discussed is that fully healthy =/= great player.

His game is still severely flawed. Yes he can be healthy and be 90% as explosive as he was in Philly but has he been able to work on his game along with his body? For some reason it's a given that healthy Ben = All-Star which I really don't think is the case.

Questions I still have for him healthy or not:
1) Has he worked on his FTs? Idc what hand he uses. I just want him to shoot in the +70% range
2) Will he stay aggressive when/if he's not shooting FT's and take contact?
3) How can he score other that drives to the rim? How is is float game, midrange jumper/jump hook, posting midget guards?
4) Can he get back to being elite defensively possession by possession? Less dumb fouls?
5) Will/Can he defensively rebound in traffic defensively to help the team on the boards?

Those are my 5 biggest concerns. Yes, we all want him healthy but he still needs to be viable basketball player and with the contract he's on, he needs to provide at a minimum net positive play.

Not asking for All-Star Ben, just functionally useful Ben on both ends. Low bar but really hope he clears.

[vincecarter4pres]

One thing about the discourse around Ben that I feel like is never discussed is that fully healthy =/= great player.

His game is still severely flawed. Yes he can be healthy and be 90% as explosive as he was in Philly but has he been able to work on his game along with his body? For some reason it's a given that healthy Ben = All-Star which I really don't think is the case.

Questions I still have for him healthy or not:
1) Has he worked on his FTs? Idc what hand he uses. I just want him to shoot in the +70% range
2) Will he stay aggressive when/if he's not shooting FT's and take contact?
3) How can he score other that drives to the rim? How is is float game, midrange jumper/jump hook, posting midget guards?
4) Can he get back to being elite defensively possession by possession? Less dumb fouls?
5) Will/Can he defensively rebound in traffic defensively to help the team on the boards?

Those are my 5 biggest concerns. Yes, we all want him healthy but he still needs to be viable basketball player and with the contract he's on, he needs to provide at a minimum net positive play.

Not asking for All-Star Ben, just functionally useful Ben on both ends. Low bar but really hope he clears.

If he improved most of that even a little across the board he’d be a perennial All NBA level player.

I won’t worry about his contract, there is no restructuring in the NBA, he has two seasons left on it, is what it is.

90% of peak Philly Ben would be huge for this team tbh, if he could really achieve that and stay healthy.

This team still needs a true lead scorer, at least a 1a to Bridges 1b, to have any real deal aspirations, we shouldn’t ever expect Ben to become anything in that realm.

But if you add a Donovan Mitchell, a Ja, a Luka, etc., suddenly we’re stupid intriguing if we also had a 90% peak Philly Ben.

And if they don’t add a guy like that? Healthy Ben is an OK stopgap and a super nice player on average NBA starter money re-signed.

But healthy Ben, and more so healthy and motivated/mentally sound Ben is currently a fool me once dude.

Let’s get over that hump, then hopefully sustain that, then we can start looking for improvement.

Baby steps Bob, baby steps.

[TheNetsFan]

One thing about the discourse around Ben that I feel like is never discussed is that fully healthy =/= great player.

His game is still severely flawed. Yes he can be healthy and be 90% as explosive as he was in Philly but has he been able to work on his game along with his body? For some reason it's a given that healthy Ben = All-Star which I really don't think is the case.

Questions I still have for him healthy or not:
1) Has he worked on his FTs? Idc what hand he uses. I just want him to shoot in the +70% range
2) Will he stay aggressive when/if he's not shooting FT's and take contact?
3) How can he score other that drives to the rim? How is is float game, midrange jumper/jump hook, posting midget guards?
4) Can he get back to being elite defensively possession by possession? Less dumb fouls?
5) Will/Can he defensively rebound in traffic defensively to help the team on the boards?

Those are my 5 biggest concerns. Yes, we all want him healthy but he still needs to be viable basketball player and with the contract he's on, he needs to provide at a minimum net positive play.

Not asking for All-Star Ben, just functionally useful Ben on both ends. Low bar but really hope he clears.

A fully healthy Ben is a great player. People are so hyper-focused on his flaws, and seem to forget that in 4 seasons, he was Rookie of the Year, 3x All-star, 2x All-NBA Defensive Team, 1x All-NBA, and DPOY runner up. Beyond just awards, he is 7th in career triple doubles among all active players (ahead of Kidd's pace at this age) and 3x in VORP top-20. Those are the accolades of a great player.

[sweetlou23]

One thing about the discourse around Ben that I feel like is never discussed is that fully healthy =/= great player.

His game is still severely flawed. Yes he can be healthy and be 90% as explosive as he was in Philly but has he been able to work on his game along with his body? For some reason it's a given that healthy Ben = All-Star which I really don't think is the case.

Questions I still have for him healthy or not:
1) Has he worked on his FTs? Idc what hand he uses. I just want him to shoot in the +70% range
2) Will he stay aggressive when/if he's not shooting FT's and take contact?
3) How can he score other that drives to the rim? How is is float game, midrange jumper/jump hook, posting midget guards?
4) Can he get back to being elite defensively possession by possession? Less dumb fouls?
5) Will/Can he defensively rebound in traffic defensively to help the team on the boards?

Those are my 5 biggest concerns. Yes, we all want him healthy but he still needs to be viable basketball player and with the contract he's on, he needs to provide at a minimum net positive play.

Not asking for All-Star Ben, just functionally useful Ben on both ends. Low bar but really hope he clears.

A fully healthy Ben is a great player. People are so hyper-focused on his flaws, and seem to forget that in 4 seasons, he was Rookie of the Year, 3x All-star, 2x All-NBA Defensive Team, 1x All-NBA, and DPOY runner up. Beyond just awards, he is 7th in career triple doubles among all active players (ahead of Kidd's pace at this age) and 3x in VORP top-20. Those are the accolades of a great player.

what he said.