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GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST

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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#61 » by JoseRizal » Tue Jan 30, 2024 7:25 am

Decipher wrote:
JoseRizal wrote:
Netaman wrote:
dont forget walker in there. if din/thomas were traded for murray, wouldnt hate to see walker get a shot at starting.


What's the fixation in trading Cam T? Geez...


It’s weird

Kid is 22, averaging 21ppg while being paid $2.2 million per season for the next 2 seasons

What’s more, the team is starting to win with him as a starter

He’s just about the least of our concerns and there’s no way he should be traded unless we’re receiving something special in return imo


Exactly! He's only 22 yo and already an elite 3-level scorer. While his D and playmaking still leaves a lot to be desired, I don't think this is his final form. There's a reason a player's prime is around 27-28 yo, and Cam still has a lot of years to fix his issues.

Are we already in the position to contend to start shipping our young players? There's absolutely no need to trade CT in any potential Murray deal. Heck, I doubt if one of our valued FRPs would turn out to be as good as Cam.

Also, Murray is not the type of player who'd bring us to contention. We'll still be a middle of the pack team. So, no need to blow your load for a crack at additional 5-10 wins...
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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#62 » by NetsJets » Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:59 am

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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#63 » by TheNetsFan » Tue Jan 30, 2024 11:44 am

JoseRizal wrote:
Decipher wrote:
JoseRizal wrote:
What's the fixation in trading Cam T? Geez...


It’s weird

Kid is 22, averaging 21ppg while being paid $2.2 million per season for the next 2 seasons

What’s more, the team is starting to win with him as a starter

He’s just about the least of our concerns and there’s no way he should be traded unless we’re receiving something special in return imo


Exactly! He's only 22 yo and already an elite 3-level scorer. While his D and playmaking still leaves a lot to be desired, I don't think this is his final form. There's a reason a player's prime is around 27-28 yo, and Cam still has a lot of years to fix his issues.

Are we already in the position to contend to start shipping our young players? There's absolutely no need to trade CT in any potential Murray deal. Heck, I doubt if one of our valued FRPs would turn out to be as good as Cam.

Also, Murray is not the type of player who'd bring us to contention. We'll still be a middle of the pack team. So, no need to blow your load for a crack at additional 5-10 wins...

Thomas would be a very awkward fit with Trae. Unless they plan a full tear down, Trae included, I don't think they'd have interest in Thomas.
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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#64 » by Netaman » Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:12 pm

JoseRizal wrote:
Decipher wrote:
JoseRizal wrote:
What's the fixation in trading Cam T? Geez...


It’s weird

Kid is 22, averaging 21ppg while being paid $2.2 million per season for the next 2 seasons

What’s more, the team is starting to win with him as a starter

He’s just about the least of our concerns and there’s no way he should be traded unless we’re receiving something special in return imo


Exactly! He's only 22 yo and already an elite 3-level scorer. While his D and playmaking still leaves a lot to be desired, I don't think this is his final form. There's a reason a player's prime is around 27-28 yo, and Cam still has a lot of years to fix his issues.

Are we already in the position to contend to start shipping our young players? There's absolutely no need to trade CT in any potential Murray deal. Heck, I doubt if one of our valued FRPs would turn out to be as good as Cam.

Also, Murray is not the type of player who'd bring us to contention. We'll still be a middle of the pack team. So, no need to blow your load for a crack at additional 5-10 wins...


his true shooting% is 55%. that is hardly elite. 36% from 3 and 44% from field. both are league average numbers.

he is a competent volume scorer but needs extremely high usage to do it. he's at 31% right now. in 140+ games as a net kyrie had slightly lesser usage (30%) but a 60% ts% (49% overall, 39% from 3). He was an elite jackass but also an elite scorer.

and on top of that Cam Thomas' defense is really bad. by almost every metric he's one of the worst defenders in the nba.

the counter argument to this is that his defense could improve and his efficiency could improve, especially if he didnt have to ball handle as much and could do more catch/shoot. both of those things are true. if simmons stays healthy cam will have a much better chance to be an effective player taking positive steps forward. we just dont know how long that will last with simmons.

cam t = rj barrett. i think id rather sell him as high as possible while he's cheap than be the team that overpays on an extension that quickly becomes hard to move.
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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#65 » by Netaman » Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:23 pm

1 last followup on cam t - most recently i've been suggesting trading him for murray (earlier in the season it was mitchell when it looked like the cavs might sell). obviously mitchell is on another level.

Murray is shooting 47% from the field, 38% from 3, and scoring 21 ppg on lower usage (25%). he's also got better career shooting%'s. so if cam t is an elite scorer what is murray? he's also a clearly better playmaker and neutral/slightly positive impact defender. he has always been top 20 in steals per game and been as high as top 3. he and simmons are 2 of the few players in the nba to average 2+ steals per game over full seasons and if paired they might be one of the only backcourts with 2 such players.

so in the simple math, i think cam t is a fair cost to upgrade to murray from dinwiddie. murray + simmons would be one of the more disruptive defensive backcourts in the nba, without any scoring drop off from cam thomas. and when simmons isnt in the game murray can be a true lead guard/initiator.

i dont think i (or anyone else?) has suggest trading cam thomas in deals without an impact level player like murray coming back.

remember just about 2 years ago murray was traded for 4 FRPs. he's actually made an all star game. last year in the playoffs he averaged 23 ppg. he's a year older than brunson was when he went to the knicks and finally got his chance as a true lead guard but also a lot more accomplished. obviously you cant guarantee any projection like brunson who is this year averaging 10 points more than his career best in dallas, but i think murray similarly is currently in a situation where he has to defer to a higher usage player so there may be upside to unlock in the right new situation.

and his baseline is already better than cam t.
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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#66 » by JoseRizal » Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:36 pm

Netaman wrote:
JoseRizal wrote:
Decipher wrote:
It’s weird

Kid is 22, averaging 21ppg while being paid $2.2 million per season for the next 2 seasons

What’s more, the team is starting to win with him as a starter

He’s just about the least of our concerns and there’s no way he should be traded unless we’re receiving something special in return imo


Exactly! He's only 22 yo and already an elite 3-level scorer. While his D and playmaking still leaves a lot to be desired, I don't think this is his final form. There's a reason a player's prime is around 27-28 yo, and Cam still has a lot of years to fix his issues.

Are we already in the position to contend to start shipping our young players? There's absolutely no need to trade CT in any potential Murray deal. Heck, I doubt if one of our valued FRPs would turn out to be as good as Cam.

Also, Murray is not the type of player who'd bring us to contention. We'll still be a middle of the pack team. So, no need to blow your load for a crack at additional 5-10 wins...


his true shooting% is 55%. that is hardly elite. 36% from 3 and 44% from field. both are league average numbers.

he is a competent volume scorer but needs extremely high usage to do it. he's at 31% right now. in 140+ games as a net kyrie had slightly lesser usage (30%) but a 60% ts% (49% overall, 39% from 3). He was an elite jackass but also an elite scorer.

and on top of that Cam Thomas' defense is really bad. by almost every metric he's one of the worst defenders in the nba.

the counter argument to this is that his defense could improve and his efficiency could improve, especially if he didnt have to ball handle as much and could do more catch/shoot. both of those things are true. if simmons stays healthy cam will have a much better chance to be an effective player taking positive steps forward. we just dont know how long that will last with simmons.

cam t = rj barrett. i think id rather sell him as high as possible while he's cheap than be the team that overpays on an extension that quickly becomes hard to move.


Again, you're comparing a 27-30yo Irving (depending on what season) to Thomas who's only 22yo.

Efficiency is debatable. Granting, Cam takes and makes a lot of bad shots, part of his development is to learn how to pick his spots. It also doesn't help that he's been in and out of the starting lineup.

What I meant by elite is primarily his offensive skillset. He has a vast aray of ways to score and not just relies on catch & shoot. He's the only effective iso scorer in the team, he gets to the FT line at a respectable rate and opponents blitzes him 'cause they respect his ability to score.

Why sell high on a 3rd year player when we don't even have a chance to contend? Heck, if only we had our own picks we wouldn't be in NBA purgatory.

Trading Cam is a meaningless and senseless move. Call me again if he's a final trade piece for a Luka blockbuster...
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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#67 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:17 am

Netaman wrote:
JoseRizal wrote:
Decipher wrote:
It’s weird

Kid is 22, averaging 21ppg while being paid $2.2 million per season for the next 2 seasons

What’s more, the team is starting to win with him as a starter

He’s just about the least of our concerns and there’s no way he should be traded unless we’re receiving something special in return imo


Exactly! He's only 22 yo and already an elite 3-level scorer. While his D and playmaking still leaves a lot to be desired, I don't think this is his final form. There's a reason a player's prime is around 27-28 yo, and Cam still has a lot of years to fix his issues.

Are we already in the position to contend to start shipping our young players? There's absolutely no need to trade CT in any potential Murray deal. Heck, I doubt if one of our valued FRPs would turn out to be as good as Cam.

Also, Murray is not the type of player who'd bring us to contention. We'll still be a middle of the pack team. So, no need to blow your load for a crack at additional 5-10 wins...


his true shooting% is 55%. that is hardly elite. 36% from 3 and 44% from field. both are league average numbers.

he is a competent volume scorer but needs extremely high usage to do it. he's at 31% right now. in 140+ games as a net kyrie had slightly lesser usage (30%) but a 60% ts% (49% overall, 39% from 3). He was an elite jackass but also an elite scorer.

and on top of that Cam Thomas' defense is really bad. by almost every metric he's one of the worst defenders in the nba.

the counter argument to this is that his defense could improve and his efficiency could improve, especially if he didnt have to ball handle as much and could do more catch/shoot. both of those things are true. if simmons stays healthy cam will have a much better chance to be an effective player taking positive steps forward. we just dont know how long that will last with simmons.

cam t = rj barrett. i think id rather sell him as high as possible while he's cheap than be the team that overpays on an extension that quickly becomes hard to move.


Literally 22 years old and youre complaining that his numbers are not elite yet. Insane.

Try comparing him to his contemporaries and see how he stacks up.

Hes easily better than either Cade or Jalen Green.

Who is the history of the NBA has been super "efficient" at 22. Youre talking about all time greats and maybe.
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Re: GT: Jazz @ Nets - 1/29 - 7:30 EST 

Post#68 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:19 am

Netaman wrote:1 last followup on cam t - most recently i've been suggesting trading him for murray (earlier in the season it was mitchell when it looked like the cavs might sell). obviously mitchell is on another level.

Murray is shooting 47% from the field, 38% from 3, and scoring 21 ppg on lower usage (25%). he's also got better career shooting%'s. so if cam t is an elite scorer what is murray? he's also a clearly better playmaker and neutral/slightly positive impact defender. he has always been top 20 in steals per game and been as high as top 3. he and simmons are 2 of the few players in the nba to average 2+ steals per game over full seasons and if paired they might be one of the only backcourts with 2 such players.

so in the simple math, i think cam t is a fair cost to upgrade to murray from dinwiddie. murray + simmons would be one of the more disruptive defensive backcourts in the nba, without any scoring drop off from cam thomas. and when simmons isnt in the game murray can be a true lead guard/initiator.

i dont think i (or anyone else?) has suggest trading cam thomas in deals without an impact level player like murray coming back.

remember just about 2 years ago murray was traded for 4 FRPs. he's actually made an all star game. last year in the playoffs he averaged 23 ppg. he's a year older than brunson was when he went to the knicks and finally got his chance as a true lead guard but also a lot more accomplished. obviously you cant guarantee any projection like brunson who is this year averaging 10 points more than his career best in dallas, but i think murray similarly is currently in a situation where he has to defer to a higher usage player so there may be upside to unlock in the right new situation.

and his baseline is already better than cam t.


Murray is in his prime and Cam is going to get MUCH better. How can you compare the two at this point?

Also Murray has been a massive failure on the Hawks. They have basically gotten worse since trading for him and their defense sucks.

Hes not the guy I'm giving up assets for. Certianly not Cam T.

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