What was the point of firing Vaughn?

[bubonicphoniks]

The team seems to now be in a directionless free fall. Vaughn was far from perfect but is anyone happier now?

The team ceiling was already pretty low I honestly don't understand why everyone was pointing the finger at JV for lack of success when the roster was clearly always the issue.

Partly I believe JV was a victim of the teams early success and was penalized for it instead of rewarded.

Nets already have acquired themselves a bad reputation as an unstable franchise. A mid year firing on a coach to me will do that no favors.

What was the point? So the team could rise up and win the division now free of Vaughns management? Clearly that isn't going to happen and never was.

Again, with a roster that was never going to be anything past a play in team, why was Vaughn fired for the team performing arguably better than projected?

[Stone]

You could be right about the early success.

My guess is that JV was not going to be retained for next season and the brass figured why not see what Kevin Ollie can do as the interum coach.

[ecuhus1981]

I will say, of the little live Nets basketball I've watched recently, we do look more tactically sound against a variety of opponents. That was one of the biggest criticisms of Vaughn, and was a strong suit of Ollie back at Uconn. That has been nice.

But, at still lack "hunters". Ben, even at full strength, was never going to fit that description. Cam T is fighting hard, but he is not a smart lead guard, just a gifted scorer. Mikal is going through the motions, and, I suspect, nursing an injury. Cam J is a brilliant 7th man, but cannot shoulder any consistent defensive attention as a 3rd option, and chokes in the clutch. Nic is not making people around him better, perhaps because no one is around anymore to do that for him. He's auditioning for his next team. Sharpe is a limited energy dude. DFS, Dennis, Dennis, Lonnie and others are just role players, they cannot do anything without true stars around them.

[Karate Diop]

At least we know it's more than the coach now...

[NetsJets]

Someone had to be the fall guy. This team had expectations and those expectations were not met. Coaching is/was a problem but so is the talent on this team. Last years run to the playoffs post KD and Kyrie trades were fools gold. I knew going into this year that this was not a playoff team.

[vincecarter4pres]

The bottom line is this team needs a major shakeup this summer, whether that’s to recklessly spend the cache of picks on an available lead star and a supporting player, or to completely blow it up.

Vaughn was a bad coach, there’s no way around it.

Great beard, terrible coach.

Ollie doesn’t seem much better.

But that just distracts from the reality that this roster needs not one, but two star type players, while retaining Bridges, and a couple of the role guys, hopefully Walker and at least two of Clax, Clowney, Wilson and Whitehead.


Once again, the smarter, most obvious path should be to find a killer deal for Bridges, and just tank with a developmental coach. But as much as some of us fans and some in the media will keep beating that drum, it seems highly unlikely Tsai swallows his pride and does the right thing.

[Eatgreenz]

We are getting star or 2 100% guaranteed. Nets moving like they have this happening for sure.

[vincecarter4pres]

We are getting star or 2 100% guaranteed. Nets moving like they have this happening for sure.

Do not doubt it at all, just hope it’s the right ones.

Nothing is guaranteed in the NBA and so as fans we just hope for a contending team that is fun to watch.

But in the NBA you need the horses to be able to perennially compete. Let’s hope the main guy is an absolute stud and not a day over 28 when acquired and the second guy is at least an equal in talent and impact as Bridges, and not some old washed up guy, or a questionable numbers guy.

Like would a combo of Trae Young, Lauri Markkanen and Bridges with a supporting cast of athleticism, shooting and depth be good? Sure, but me personally, would still rather blow it up then go that specific route.

At minimum it needs to be Mitchell and another guy of Bridges/Markkanen’s caliber while retaining some youth and flexibility, or it’s like why?

[Eatgreenz]

We are getting star or 2 100% guaranteed. Nets moving like they have this happening for sure.

Do not doubt it at all, just hope it’s the right ones.

Nothing is guaranteed in the NBA and so as fans we just hope for a contending team that is fun to watch.

But in the NBA you need the horses to be able to perennially compete. Let’s hope the main guy is an absolute stud and not a day over 28 when acquired and the second guy is at least an equal in talent and impact as Bridges, and not some old washed up guy, or a questionable numbers guy.

Like would a combo of Trae Young, Lauri Markkanen and Bridges with a supporting cast of athleticism, shooting and depth be good? Sure, but me personally, would still rather blow it up then go that specific route.

At minimum it needs to be Mitchell and another guy of Bridges/Markkanen’s caliber while retaining some youth and flexibility, or it’s like why?

Same man just hoping its right guy, which im leaning it will be. Marks could have got dame we were on his list. If dame was 26-27 100% believe his a net. Which shows Marks has your thinking stars that are in their beginning prime age or younger is the goal. Im thinking its either spida or trae, with an out of nowhere one like zion always being a possibility. But the main star has to be guy who can play mvp type level ball.

And watch out for ty lue if the clippers let him go, Marks gotta go all in on him.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Vaughn was a scapegoat. This team just sucks.

Bringing in a different coach was not going to change the results.

Simmons doesn't play. Bridges is nothing more than a role player. Claxton/Johnson have not really improved.

What else do we expect?

[vincecarter4pres]

Vaughn was a scapegoat. This team just sucks.

Bringing in a different coach was not going to change the results.

Simmons doesn't play. Bridges is nothing more than a role player. Claxton/Johnson have not really improved.

What else do we expect?

Don’t strongly disagree with any of the latter, but scape goat or not, Vaughn is a bad coach. Ollie probably is too.

[ChuckS]

Vaughn was a scapegoat. This team just sucks.

Bringing in a different coach was not going to change the results.

Simmons doesn't play. Bridges is nothing more than a role player. Claxton/Johnson have not really improved.

What else do we expect?

Don’t strongly disagree with any of the latter, but scape goat or not, Vaughn is a bad coach. Ollie probably is too.

Your last sentence, and a recent internet article, have me wondering if a couple of my biggest JV complaints were really his own ideas. I remember reading a Steve Kerr article praising the importance of Mike Brown's skills in the early GS dynasty years. So assistants can be influential.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/nets_wing_speaks_out_after_head_scratching_head_coach_critique/s1_17201_40156966

In fairness it is probably too early to tell, but before I devalue every important player on the team, I'd like to further consider the massive and somewhat abrupt total collapse. Mikal dropped 5.7 PPG this year, Spencer 3.9, Cam J 2.9, and Nic 0.5. When I mentioned this previously it was suggested that CamT's 10.6 PPG improvement could be a factor. But what does it profit a team to gain that 10.6 PPG and lose 13 from the other starters? Shouldn't a good team augment its offense in such a case and not become worse? Should we blame every player, or mismanagement, for what appears to be the significant loss of morale and confidence? I've long suspected that it was "the end justifying the means" situation. That is -- painfully escaping the repeater tax is a necessity for improving. But perhaps it is just the reality that crap just happens.

[ArksNetsSince99]

At least we know it's more than the coach now...

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

[vincecarter4pres]

At least we know it's more than the coach now...

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

I still don’t understand the beef with Marks.

Outside the putrid return on the Harden to Sixers trade, he’s been really good.

Do people think even if he wanted to, that he can override Tsai and just have traded Bridges to Houston?

[ChuckS]

At least we know it's more than the coach now...

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

I still don’t understand the beef with Marks.

Outside the putrid return on the Harden to Sixers trade, he’s been really good.

Do people think even if he wanted to, that he can override Tsai and just have traded Bridges to Houston?

I agree about Marks. I'll even (I know unpopularly) say the same about Tsai. I'll begin with the latter. Usually one does not become a billionaire by being stupid. In my opinion, paying the repeater tax, or actually even the luxury tax, for this current product would be stupid. Marks, on the other hand, is paying for being the instrument for resolving that problem. I have disagreements with how the "big three" were handled, and even some of the moves to extricate ourselves from the mess less painfully, but have to admit that it seems to have worked with what I believe will be this one season of putrid play. I could be being naively optimistic but, if it is, it could one day be viewed as masterfully handled.

IMO the prime cause of our current status was the trade for Ben. But I cannot fault anyone for not foreseeing such a player and team tragedy. This will be resolved in 2025, and how it is done will determine the length of our suffering. I'm, personally, comfortable in also entrusting that to Marks.

[3pt_chucker]

At least we know it's more than the coach now...

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

I still don’t understand the beef with Marks.

Outside the putrid return on the Harden to Sixers trade, he’s been really good.

Do people think even if he wanted to, that he can override Tsai and just have traded Bridges to Houston?

To me it makes more sense that Marks wants to keep Bridges than it being a Tsai mandate.

As for Marks, there is only so many excuses and things going wrong around you, that the accountability doesn't fall on his lap.

So much has gone wrong over the last 2-3 seasons under his watch and he keeps getting a pass. This season culminating in a total s*** show product on the floor, should be the last straw(for most competent franchises).

For ex. how many GMs in the history of the NBA get to hire and fire 4 head coaches?

[Eatgreenz]

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

I still don’t understand the beef with Marks.

Outside the putrid return on the Harden to Sixers trade, he’s been really good.

Do people think even if he wanted to, that he can override Tsai and just have traded Bridges to Houston?

I agree about Marks. I'll even (I know unpopularly) say the same about Tsai. I'll begin with the latter. Usually one does not become a billionaire by being stupid. In my opinion, paying the repeater tax, or actually even the luxury tax, for this current product would be stupid. Marks, on the other hand, is paying for being the instrument for resolving that problem. I have disagreements with how the "big three" were handled, and even some of the moves to extricate ourselves from the mess less painfully, but have to admit that it seems to have worked with what I believe will be this one season of putrid play. I could be being naively optimistic but, if it is, it could one day be viewed as masterfully handled.

IMO the prime cause of our current status was the trade for Ben. But I cannot fault anyone for not foreseeing such a player and team tragedy. This will be resolved in 2025, and how it is done will determine the length of our suffering. I'm, personally, comfortable in also entrusting that to Marks.

I truly believe their is a plan in place almost to the point. Mark knows which star or stars his getting. If he wanted a quick fix or splash move could of got dame we were on his list. But he didnt because of the ages. So he's looking for young to prime star/stars. Loading up on draft capital and got max capspace in 2025. Nobody moving this way without have master plan in place. The coach targeted this offseason will tell us more.

[ArksNetsSince99]

At least we know it's more than the coach now...

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

I still don’t understand the beef with Marks.

Outside the putrid return on the Harden to Sixers trade, he’s been really good.

Do people think even if he wanted to, that he can override Tsai and just have traded Bridges to Houston?

What ???

1 for some reason Kyrie is a model citizen in Dallas , mishandled Kyrie here big time , with decision about not playing away games then changed his mind , Tsais stupid 7 points to do list , all of this was one big ****

2 never took a time to talk to Bruce Brown about extension and possible trade, all while corpses of Blake and Patty was still on the team

3 extending Vaughn while several better coaches was available in that very offseason

4 not protecting the picks in Harden incoming deal ( Billy King 2.0 )

5 not performing medical in Simmons trade

Marks is as terrible as they come , he made you believe in Brooklyn culture , so far this Brooklyn culture amounts to loosing season without a picks , without any promising young talent

All we got is

Terrible HC and staff

Mishandled Cam Thomas

Heavily underperforming Bridges, DFS

Overpaid Johnson

One foot out the door Claxton

and few miserable role players

Really well done Marks

[vincecarter4pres]

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

I still don’t understand the beef with Marks.

Outside the putrid return on the Harden to Sixers trade, he’s been really good.

Do people think even if he wanted to, that he can override Tsai and just have traded Bridges to Houston?

What ???

1 for some reason Kyrie is a model citizen in Dallas , mishandled Kyrie here big time , with decision about not playing away games then changed his mind , Tsais stupid 7 points to do list , all of this was one big ****

2 never took a time to talk to Bruce Brown about extension and possible trade, all while corpses of Blake and Patty was still on the team

3 extending Vaughn while several better coaches was available in that very offseason

4 not protecting the picks in Harden incoming deal ( Billy King 2.0 )

5 not performing medical in Simmons trade

Marks is as terrible as they come , he made you believe in Brooklyn culture , so far this Brooklyn culture amounts to loosing season without a picks , without any promising young talent

All we got is

Terrible HC and staff

Mishandled Cam Thomas

Heavily underperforming Bridges, DFS

Overpaid Johnson

One foot out the door Claxton

and few miserable role players

Really well done Marks

We’re not going to agree here on most any of this, and I again feel most of this falls on orders from Tsai.

1 is the most important, and squarely falls on Kyrie himself, and Tsai. And let’s not be fooled, Kyrie has burnt every bridge he’s collected a toll from. Maybe he’s finally learning, and tbh I’m still rooting for him in Dallas, though felt he had to be dealt.

2 again was a tax issue and a Tsai issue imho. Still, he didn’t bring much back in trade and isn’t a player we needed now.

3 once again, I don’t believe this is a Marks choice, hell he desperately wanted Udoka, but the optics around the league and Tsai and Silver put the kibosh on that.

4 I’ll semi-agree on this, but this is normally the cost of trading for a superstar, especially with the other two guys on the roster.

5 this is a big one, along with only getting two very mediocre picks for him, then watching him traded for better value to LAC years later after pulling another tantrum and showing up looking out of shape and old.

I truly don’t understand what he has to do with Cam Thomas and some of you guys are way too over the moon with him anyway imho.

And Bridges is not underperforming, he’s basically performing. Why people are mad at him for not keeping up his unsustainable play from the second half of last year is beyond me. He has improved vastly overall since Phoenix, and this is pretty much the type of raw numbers we should expect out of him on an actual contender, 20/5/3.5 stuff as a 2b/3a option, just on immensely better efficiency and with energy left to play his league leading defense. Of course he’s failing when being forced to be a first option and initiator, with suspect point guard play, or even as a 2nd to the ball stopping and inefficient Cam.

Cam Johnson was overpaid a bit, but he’s another overextended role guy and likely wouldn’t be hard to move for a playable expiring and a late first or decent prospect.

DFS has always kind of sucked, don’t understand the allure to him, at this point he’s neutral to positive value salary filler they need to hang onto though.


Marks isn’t without flaws, but he is absolutely not terrible, not even close, he’s in the top half of GM’s in the league and will be scooped up in a heartbeat if he’s fired.


Your main beef should be with Tsai, his ego and delusion is unmatched.

[vincecarter4pres]

It’s Marks and Tsai , they both sucks

I still don’t understand the beef with Marks.

Outside the putrid return on the Harden to Sixers trade, he’s been really good.

Do people think even if he wanted to, that he can override Tsai and just have traded Bridges to Houston?

To me it makes more sense that Marks wants to keep Bridges than it being a Tsai mandate.

As for Marks, there is only so many excuses and things going wrong around you, that the accountability doesn't fall on his lap.

So much has gone wrong over the last 2-3 seasons under his watch and he keeps getting a pass. This season culminating in a total s*** show product on the floor, should be the last straw(for most competent franchises).

For ex. how many GMs in the history of the NBA get to hire and fire 4 head coaches?

I’m not saying Marks should be absolved of all responsibility and criticism for the mess that has happened here, maybe that’s where we’re getting off track. He surely should be criticized, even chastised for some things, and definitely have all the moves as a collective picked apart, as long as all proper context and their domino effect be included.

And a lot of GM’s have been able to fire and hire coaches when things went the way they did here, start to finish.

But I’m not totally defending that stuff either.


The thing is, and this is legit important to me, I think as stupid as something like the Nash hire was in hindsight, it’s important to be honest with ourselves and realize there are maybe 10 legitimate difference making coaches in the NBA, and most of those are held onto dearly. It’s better to take shots in the dark on new blood, then a lot of these mediocre retreads.

Stability and consistency is a wonderful thing, and it should be discussed and criticized the number of bodies in Marks’ wake, but even a number of that slim group of difference makers are fired often enough(Ty Lue, Carlisle, Vogel, Udoka, Snyder for example), so given context, if you don’t get a guy like that, you shoot your shot on high risk/high reward guys imho.

Lastly, Nash was KD’s guy too for sure, right or wrong, there was a lot of placating there.