Leafs 2013-14 Regular Season Thread

[Turbo_Zone]

Not sure where to put this! So I crammed it here:

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[Brew666]

The fact that they aren't even considering canning Nonis because of his 5 year contract shows that winning is still not the first thing on the agenda. If contract length is preventing you from doing the moves you should, then that's not winning.

Extending Nonis to 5 years was absolutely the worst move of TL's tenure so far.

Why are you assuming it's the length of contract that's keeping him here? Or that his contract is a factor at all in retaining him?

From what I've heard, it was discussed whether it would be better to go on with him or without him and Shannahan and TL decided it would be best to move on with him. Why throw away his personal knowledge if you can still retain him but not have him as a decision maker? Having Nonis at the draft table in June will be a good thing. He's a hockey guy with experience and knowledge and is going to have good input regardless how much money he's making. Extending Nonis was a bad move but I don't think the contract was a factor in retaining him. I'd be cutting loose the Cliff Fletchers of Leafs mgmt before Nonis.

TL also retained BC when he hired Masai. TL didn't want BC going near basketball operations b/c they weren't on the same page about the team. If TL didn't want Nonis' opinion on the hockey team, I think he would've removed him from the equation.

[LLJ]

Why are you assuming it's the length of contract that's keeping him here? Or that his contract is a factor at all in retaining him?

If a team missed the playoffs and the GM mismanaged the team's cap room, wouldn't they at least CONSIDER replacing him? Forget that he has a 5 year contract and assume he only has 1 year left. The fact that there hasn't been one single rumbling of replacing him means that the rules have already been put in place even before Shanahan sat down for his press conference. It's pretty obvious his contract is a major factor.

[Brew666]

I think they did consider it but there aren't any better options for the time being. TL and Shanahan both said there were discussions about keeping Nonis and decided to keep him b/c he's the best available essentially.

I think it's Shanahan's decision whether Nonis stays and TL didn't want to make a hockey decision when he hired a new president to make these decisions. And Shanahan isn't going to fire the GM without working with him yet. I don't think it was a rule that was set out for Shanahan if he was to take the job. Bobcat may have even asked Shanahan this exact question. Whether Nonis was guaranteed to be the GM and the answer was no.

If Nonis wasn't extended and was kept on as interim GM, I wouldn't be surprised if it would end up being the same reporting structure but different titles

[GYBE]

From what I've heard, it was discussed whether it would be better to go on with him or without him and Shannahan and TL decided it would be best to move on with him. Why throw away his personal knowledge if you can still retain him but not have him as a decision maker? Having Nonis at the draft table in June will be a good thing. He's a hockey guy with experience and knowledge and is going to have good input regardless how much money he's making.

His input last offseason lead to disastrous results all over the place. His personal knowledge felt the team was better without MacArthur and Grabovski. He traded away a 2nd round pick for Peter Holland without seeming to care that Randy barely played him. Clarkson. His presence at the draft table resulted in Frederik Gauthier. Raymond was a solid pickup, but he's gone this summer anyways. Bernier was the only succesful move, but TL has been taking all the credit for that anyways. We need to get Nonis away from the franchise before he can inflict more damage.

This is a man who publicly said "the Corsi stat doesn't mean anything." Smart franchises like LA, Chicago, Boston and Detroit are enjoying sustained success by embracing analytics while our executives mock this illuminating data.

The only way for the Leafs to turn the page and look toward the future is a total purge of the current regime. Have Shanny fill every position with his own people, not the remnants of the Burke administration.

[Brew666]

His input last offseason lead to disastrous results all over the place. His personal knowledge felt the team was better without MacArthur and Grabovski. He traded away a 2nd round pick for Peter Holland without seeming to care that Randy barely played him. Clarkson. His presence at the draft table resulted in Frederik Gauthier. Raymond was a solid pickup, but he's gone this summer anyways. Bernier was the only succesful move, but TL has been taking all the credit for that anyways. We need to get Nonis away from the franchise before he can inflict more damage.

I don't see last season as an aberration though. It's the same story every year with this core. They have yet to put an entire season together. Letting MacArthur walk and using that money on Clarkson was a bad move but I don't think MacArthur would've been the difference to bring us into the playoffs. He wasn't going to single handily turn this team around. Grabo would've been competing for minutes with Kadri and Bolland. As soon as Bolland was brought in they had to either get rid of Kadri or Grabo. I don't know if I ended up I writing it but it may have been better to deal Kadri instead of Grabo but again I don't think that's what plagued the Leafs this year.

A 2nd for Peter Holland is a solid move and was completely caused by Bolland being injured. Holland was buried by a deep Anaheim team and he was also 20-21 years old when he played for Carlyle? The Leafs were rolling out lineups with Trevor Smith and Jerrod Smithson, Nonis addressed a need and I have nothing to complain about that deal.

I have nothing to complain about the Gauthier pick and wouldn't be ready to write off a 18 year old prospect either. He also drafted Connor Brown in the 5th and Veraeghe in the 3rd who already seem to be solid picks at those slots. If anything, the Burke regime has drafted well and the Leafs finally have a farm team worth using. I'd rather have Nonis and his scouting team over whatever the alternative might be. Shanahan has the final say but there is no way he knows the draft class like Nonis and his staff. Shanny has to rely on him b/c he's been doing discipline and it's not like he's been with a different team with a different set of scouting reports and such. Shanahan probably knows just about as much as us when it comes to this draft class coming into the position.

This is a man who publicly said "the Corsi stat doesn't mean anything." Smart franchises like LA, Chicago, Boston and Detroit are enjoying sustained success by embracing analytics while our executives mock this illuminating data.

The only way for the Leafs to turn the page and look toward the future is a total purge of the current regime. Have Shanny fill every position with his own people, not the remnants of the Burke administration.

Shanahan also addressed the use of analytics and said that you have to use all data available and you don't throw away data. It's stupid and ridiculous Nonis said that but now he answers to someone who does care about it. TL made it quite clear this team is moving forward with Shanahan's vision and if anyone isn't willing to change their opinion on analytics, I don't expect them to be there long.

I'm not against a complete purge of this team but not sure if the timing is right. I don't think Shanahan has any people yet b/c he's been in a league role and hasn't been involved in mgmt with a team before. Shanahan has only viewed this team from the external and I don't think he wants to make any knee jerk assumptions before understanding the complete situation with all the variables. I don't think firing an entire staff without any internal knowledge is not a good idea.

I don't think this team can win how it's currently constructed and I do want them to take a couple steps back and build a better team. I want Carlyle gone. But Shanahan has to come to that conclusion himself. He has to do the proper research and figure out what exactly the issue is. He has to make calculated decisions.

I'm thinking I'm not as concerned about this as others b/c I feel Nonis' balls have been chopped. Nonis can do the leg work but Shanahan gets the final say. Everything Nonis effed up is out his hands now. Just b/c he couldn't lead the team doesn't mean he's not an asset to the organization.

[GYBE]

I don't agree with everything there, but I appreciate the comprehensive response. I do think Carlyle is a bigger problem than Nonis, so as long as Shanny fires Randy I'll probably be content with this offseason.

[Brew666]

Thanks. I know I'm optimistic when it comes to Toronto sports, which is pretty ludicrous, but it's in my nature. I"m drawing a lot of conclusions that not everyone will agree on but with the information available, it's how I'm making sense of it.

I tend to read the boards more than participate but just hope to add to the conversation.

[whysoserious]

So the Leafs are considering offers on Phaneuf now. How stupid is this organization? I mean come on, they should have never signed him to that deal. Should have let him hit the market and if the numbers got crazy, walk away or trade him if you're afraid of losing him for nothing.

I don't even hate Phaneuf and think he can be very good if you had a few better players around him without the pressure of being captain. They put him in a position to never live up their hype and now they want out.

And in typical Leafs fashion, they overpaid the player and included a partial non-trade clause in which Phaneuf has to give them 12 teams should they decide to trade him. This team just adds more stupidity in the way it negotiates contracts, they negotiate against themselves and take it up the a$$ from agents.