PG: Dick wasn't enough for the Raptors, Knicks win with a Precious facial to top it off!

[Clyde_Style]

One more reason I prefer Deuce to IQ:

Guys like Deuce and Donte are essential to a championship roster as these are the kinds of guys who can pour in 20-30 points with relatively low usage

IQ, even as a sixth man, would tend to dominate the ball. Maybe as a PG he is becoming more of a facilitator, but he is still high usage overall

IOW, I want my microwave players to be guys you plug into any rotation and if they're hot they can carry the team for a quarter or more without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like Deuce can give you an instant 10-15 points quickly when they're on.

And Deuce has proven to be pretty consistent as a shooter. He's not just a streak shooter

Having guys who can score in bunches while playing off the ball makes your team far more dangerous than having a roster where every scorer requires lots of touches to produce

There's a reason IQ is not here. He wanted to start. Personally, I wouldn't want the Knicks to be built around him as a starter. He really was ideal as a 6th man IMO

[KnicksGadfly]

The thing that stunted RJ was less about coaching and more about teammates. RJ can’t be the focus with Brunson and Randle being better players, plus RJ plays better on an offense without legit centers in the paint.

If Randle was injured before the trade maybe RJ would have increased his value a bit.

CB wriggling out of his RJ assessment.

What big things did IQ accomplish

We're talking about player development, aren't we.

IQ finished second in 6MOY voting in his 3rd season and scored high every year in impact metrics. It's a positive development arc, no matter how much energy you want to spend diminishing him.

This is pretty much real. I feel like most guys on this forum aren't talking about IQ, RJ or even Obi anymore. But when IQ gets brought up in a certain manner (basically any time he has a bad game), we can pretty much place bets on who at this point.

[Jalen Bluntson]

One more reason I prefer Deuce to IQ:

Guys like Deuce and Donte are essential to a championship roster as these are the kinds of guys who can pour in 20-30 points with relatively low usage

IQ, even as a sixth man, would tend to dominate the ball. Maybe as a PG he is becoming more of a facilitator, but he is still high usage overall

IOW, I want my microwave players to be guys you plug into any rotation and if they're hot they can carry the team for a quarter or more without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like Deuce can give you an instant 10-15 points quickly when they're on.

And Deuce has proven to be pretty consistent as a shooter. He's not just a streak shooter

Having guys who can score in bunches while playing off the ball makes your team far more dangerous than having a roster where every scorer requires lots of touches to produce

There's a reason IQ is not here. He wanted to start. Personally, I wouldn't want the Knicks to be built around him as a starter. He really was ideal as a 6th man IMO

Bottom line for me. Love the kid. I think he's a 6MOY candidate every year and that's his best role. I love the current team on paper more than the one we had. I am over it(and Grimes) already thanks to Deuce and DDV.

[nykballa2k4]

I prefer Deuce to IQ, especially because he is already so damn reliable. He's a bucket on one end and a disruptor on the other.

And my gut says Deuce will be clutch in ways IQ will not be. Deuce is steady under pressure which can result in him becoming a big time marquee player if he sustains his current production. His numbers right now are exceptional. We'll need a full season to know fully how far he can take this, but I see no reason to doubt him.

Love both guys, but I feel Deuce is a good role player whereas IQ is that star 6th man. IQ can create offense in ways Deuce has yet to. Deuce is very well able to make the open shot generated by teammates, but IQ is able to be the guy that MAKES Deuce be open.

Have to disagree with you on this. Deuce has been showing plenty of ability to create his own shot, probe and exploit the defense, drive to the rack and make opportunistic putbacks off the offensive boards. He also has better athletic ability than IQ and Deuce has good body control when airborne. For a 6'1'' guard he has decent hops.

A month ago people on this board were saying Deuce was a limited offensive player and he is proving otherwise.

And Deuce has much better shot selection than IQ. He mostly takes shots he is ready to make whereas IQ's shot selection as a Knick was sometimes quite random. Shot selection can be a big factor in a player's effectiveness and I feel Deuce is smarter in this way.

Finally, Deuce is great at taking care of the ball. He is not turnover prone. IQ could get reckless at times.

I don't follow TO so I don't know how IQ has evolved so take that into consideration as I'm comparing them based on their Knicks tenure.

Deuce is going to look more efficient because he is the beneficiary. There is a reason that IQ could extend leads when Brunson sat and Deuce is always sort of a "keep it close" kind of guy. I love Deuce -- what he brings and he and Mitch are the last of the home-grown rotation-level Knicks.

IQ can go 1:1 and get a bucket. Deuce isn't that guy. IQ might take an ill advised 35 foot shot, Deuce would never.
Both play elite defense. Both guys seem like great character guys. Both are easy to root for. People here swore IQ was developing as a passer/playmaker - I never saw it. Deuce is a 3-D wing in a point guard frame. He does handle well, but with him at the point, you can see the offense sputter/stagnate.

[KnicksGadfly]

One more reason I prefer Deuce to IQ:

Guys like Deuce and Donte are essential to a championship roster as these are the kinds of guys who can pour in 20-30 points with relatively low usage

IQ, even as a sixth man, would tend to dominate the ball. Maybe as a PG he is becoming more of a facilitator, but he is still high usage overall

IOW, I want my microwave players to be guys you plug into any rotation and if they're hot they can carry the team for a quarter or more without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like Deuce can give you an instant 10-15 points quickly when they're on.

And Deuce has proven to be pretty consistent as a shooter. He's not just a streak shooter

Having guys who can score in bunches while playing off the ball makes your team far more dangerous than having a roster where every scorer requires lots of touches to produce

There's a reason IQ is not here. He wanted to start. Personally, I wouldn't want the Knicks to be built around him as a starter. He really was ideal as a 6th man IMO

I think you hit on a good point. McBride's usage (15%) these past 10 games has been pretty impressive for the amount he's producing. However, one thing that's really important to note is that it's coincided with Brunson rising to 36%, which is probably not what we want long-term. The guy who has really stepped up in that instance is DDV, who has gotten to 22%. Ideally, we'd want guys who can do both -- step up when needed, fall back when needed. It would actually be nice if we can get DDV back to his normal role, for example.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/new-york-knicks-usage-rate-by-player-last-10-games
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/new-york-knicks-usage-rate-by-player-this-season

One thing that's pretty important to note, however, is that IQ was 4th in usage at 24% (similar to DDV's 22% now). He played pretty well off Brunson when he was paired together, but Thibs didn't feel comfortable doing that (he does feel more comfortable with McBride and Brunson though). At the same time, he was good enough that Thibs trusted him to run the offense when Brunson sat. This is not a bad thing -- it's versatility in my book. I'd argue that the bigger win for the Knicks was removing RJ, who was dominating the ball very inefficiently for us. Whatever he's doing in Toronto, he seriously wasn't doing here.

I think the bigger argument I'd make about whether a player can play off ball or not, because I really dislike guys who can't play off ball well, is that it's usually pretty easy to figure out. Imo, the skills that are often correlated with off-ball impact are: defense, shooting, rebounding some. It's basically some version of "If I give the ball to someone else like Brunson, can you gtfo the way and still have a strong impact?" IQ had all those in spades. That's why plus-minus was high on him. It's the same reason OG Anunoby could do so well as well. It's also why Deuce is good. You can stick those guys in the corner the whole game, and they can have an impact. In the end, IQ was not adding the most value with microwave offensive play...his defense was his strongest selling point.

I would actually argue that offball play is one of IQ's strengths.

[KnicksGadfly]

One more reason I prefer Deuce to IQ:

Guys like Deuce and Donte are essential to a championship roster as these are the kinds of guys who can pour in 20-30 points with relatively low usage

IQ, even as a sixth man, would tend to dominate the ball. Maybe as a PG he is becoming more of a facilitator, but he is still high usage overall

IOW, I want my microwave players to be guys you plug into any rotation and if they're hot they can carry the team for a quarter or more without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like Deuce can give you an instant 10-15 points quickly when they're on.

And Deuce has proven to be pretty consistent as a shooter. He's not just a streak shooter

Having guys who can score in bunches while playing off the ball makes your team far more dangerous than having a roster where every scorer requires lots of touches to produce

There's a reason IQ is not here. He wanted to start. Personally, I wouldn't want the Knicks to be built around him as a starter. He really was ideal as a 6th man IMO

Bottom line for me. Love the kid. I think he's a 6MOY candidate every year and that's his best role. I love the current team on paper more than the one we had. I am over it(and Grimes) already thanks to Deuce and DDV.

I think that's fine. I like IQ and still think he has what it takes to develop into a strong supporting star for a 1A, but I also can't pretend this might be who he is (17 ppg, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, high 3 point percentage in Toronto). It's in his hands now. I just got an issue when people actively take satisfaction when the kid struggles (which he's been doing alright...not perfect, but it's not a bad start).

The truth is, out of the all of the recent draft picks we've had, RJ, Mitch, Obi, etc...IQ is the one who was most successful. He was the one who represented NYC the best. He played defense, overcame hardship, played hard, enjoyed being here. If we talk about development and potential, then IQ is the guy. Based on how hard he works and how he plays, why shouldn't he try to improve as much as he could?

[cgf]

You can't just look at percentages when there's a big disparity in the kinds of shots guys are taking. ~70% of DDV's shots are 3s, over 91% of which are assisted, and almost 60% of his 2s are assisted. 58% of Deuce's shots are 3s and 89% of those are assisted...though only 32% of his 2s are. As a knick 48.5% of IQ's shots these past two seasons were 3s, and only 72% of those were assisted, with 39.8% of his 2s this season being assisted and 26.3% last season.

This is like when folks just look at TS to compare a finisher like Lauri with a creator like Julius, you need to dig deeper into the numbers to put them in proper context...and IQ was creating way more of his own shots than either Deuce or Donte, so it's simply not an apples to oranges comparison. Those two's shot profile is much closer to Grimes' than IQ's.

[Clyde_Style]

Love both guys, but I feel Deuce is a good role player whereas IQ is that star 6th man. IQ can create offense in ways Deuce has yet to. Deuce is very well able to make the open shot generated by teammates, but IQ is able to be the guy that MAKES Deuce be open.

Have to disagree with you on this. Deuce has been showing plenty of ability to create his own shot, probe and exploit the defense, drive to the rack and make opportunistic putbacks off the offensive boards. He also has better athletic ability than IQ and Deuce has good body control when airborne. For a 6'1'' guard he has decent hops.

A month ago people on this board were saying Deuce was a limited offensive player and he is proving otherwise.

And Deuce has much better shot selection than IQ. He mostly takes shots he is ready to make whereas IQ's shot selection as a Knick was sometimes quite random. Shot selection can be a big factor in a player's effectiveness and I feel Deuce is smarter in this way.

Finally, Deuce is great at taking care of the ball. He is not turnover prone. IQ could get reckless at times.

I don't follow TO so I don't know how IQ has evolved so take that into consideration as I'm comparing them based on their Knicks tenure.

Deuce is going to look more efficient because he is the beneficiary. There is a reason that IQ could extend leads when Brunson sat and Deuce is always sort of a "keep it close" kind of guy. I love Deuce -- what he brings and he and Mitch are the last of the home-grown rotation-level Knicks.

IQ can go 1:1 and get a bucket. Deuce isn't that guy. IQ might take an ill advised 35 foot shot, Deuce would never.
Both play elite defense. Both guys seem like great character guys. Both are easy to root for. People here swore IQ was developing as a passer/playmaker - I never saw it. Deuce is a 3-D wing in a point guard frame. He does handle well, but with him at the point, you can see the offense sputter/stagnate.

You and I are seeing different things. Deuce can get anywhere he wants to get off his shot.

Deuce is now taking guys off the ball to get off a clean shot whether it is in the paint or at the rim.

While he does take a high proportion of shots from three he is drawing defenders in and going past them when they are too close to get off a good shot.

And, even then, Deuce is starting to get those threes off with less space (and making them). IOW, even though he is not a quick release shooter like Donte (Deuce has a catapult set-up in his shooting motion), he is so confident in his ability to make the shot now that he is shooting it as defenders rush him. And that gives him a Plan B to blow by them and he is doing that with increasing frequency.

[Clyde_Style]

You can't just look at percentages when there's a big disparity in the kinds of shots guys are taking. ~70% of DDV's shots are 3s, over 91% of which are assisted, and almost 60% of his 2s are assisted. 58% of Deuce's shots are 3s and 89% of those are assisted...though only 32% of his 2s are. As a knick 48.5% of IQ's shots these past two seasons were 3s, and only 72% of those were assisted, with 39.8% of his 2s this season being assisted and 26.3% last season.

This is like when folks just look at TS to compare a finisher like Lauri with a creator like Julius, you need to dig deeper into the numbers to put them in proper context...and IQ was creating way more of his own shots than either Deuce or Donte, so it's simply not an apples to oranges comparison. Those two's shot profile is much closer to Grimes' than IQ's.

Deuce's game is morphing too rapidly now to peg him into the catch and shoot category. He's making shots for himself all over the court lately.

And his playmaking is expanding too. He's keeping his dribble active most of the time looking and probing for either his own shot or to find the open man.

Deuce is often spoken of in terms of how he was playing in the past. His current manifestation is quite different.

[Gravy]

You can't just look at percentages when there's a big disparity in the kinds of shots guys are taking. ~70% of DDV's shots are 3s, over 91% of which are assisted, and almost 60% of his 2s are assisted. 58% of Deuce's shots are 3s and 89% of those are assisted...though only 32% of his 2s are. As a knick 48.5% of IQ's shots these past two seasons were 3s, and only 72% of those were assisted, with 39.8% of his 2s this season being assisted and 26.3% last season.

This is like when folks just look at TS to compare a finisher like Lauri with a creator like Julius, you need to dig deeper into the numbers to put them in proper context...and IQ was creating way more of his own shots than either Deuce or Donte, so it's simply not an apples to oranges comparison. Those two's shot profile is much closer to Grimes' than IQ's.

IQ would be perfect for this team off the bench right now. They could really use his ability to get a shot for himself and his passing would help the other bench players. Brunson also wouldn't have to play as many minutes with another mini-offensive hub. Deuce has been great recently but he still has a way to go to match what IQ gave us, Deuce needs someone else on the court with him to help make plays.

[Clyde_Style]

One more reason I prefer Deuce to IQ:

Guys like Deuce and Donte are essential to a championship roster as these are the kinds of guys who can pour in 20-30 points with relatively low usage

IQ, even as a sixth man, would tend to dominate the ball. Maybe as a PG he is becoming more of a facilitator, but he is still high usage overall

IOW, I want my microwave players to be guys you plug into any rotation and if they're hot they can carry the team for a quarter or more without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like Deuce can give you an instant 10-15 points quickly when they're on.

And Deuce has proven to be pretty consistent as a shooter. He's not just a streak shooter

Having guys who can score in bunches while playing off the ball makes your team far more dangerous than having a roster where every scorer requires lots of touches to produce

There's a reason IQ is not here. He wanted to start. Personally, I wouldn't want the Knicks to be built around him as a starter. He really was ideal as a 6th man IMO

I think you hit on a good point. McBride's usage (15%) these past 10 games has been pretty impressive for the amount he's producing. However, one thing that's really important to note is that it's coincided with Brunson rising to 36%, which is probably not what we want long-term. The guy who has really stepped up in that instance is DDV, who has gotten to 22%. Ideally, we'd want guys who can do both -- step up when needed, fall back when needed. It would actually be nice if we can get DDV back to his normal role, for example.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/new-york-knicks-usage-rate-by-player-last-10-games
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/new-york-knicks-usage-rate-by-player-this-season

One thing that's pretty important to note, however, is that IQ was 4th in usage at 24% (similar to DDV's 22% now). He played pretty well off Brunson when he was paired together, but Thibs didn't feel comfortable doing that (he does feel more comfortable with McBride and Brunson though). At the same time, he was good enough that Thibs trusted him to run the offense when Brunson sat. This is not a bad thing -- it's versatility in my book. I'd argue that the bigger win for the Knicks was removing RJ, who was dominating the ball very inefficiently for us. Whatever he's doing in Toronto, he seriously wasn't doing here.

I think the bigger argument I'd make about whether a player can play off ball or not, because I really dislike guys who can't play off ball well, is that it's usually pretty easy to figure out. Imo, the skills that are often correlated with off-ball impact are: defense, shooting, rebounding some. It's basically some version of "If I give the ball to someone else like Brunson, can you gtfo the way and still have a strong impact?" IQ had all those in spades. That's why plus-minus was high on him. It's the same reason OG Anunoby could do so well as well. It's also why Deuce is good. You can stick those guys in the corner the whole game, and they can have an impact. In the end, IQ was not adding the most value with microwave offensive play...his defense was his strongest selling point.

I would actually argue that offball play is one of IQ's strengths.

IQ is a very good player and now Deuce is in the same conversation which is why we tend to do comparisons.

IQ would remain an excellent piece for us if he was still here.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Deuce's temperament and presence. I think he brings the same grit as IQ, but, for me, the edge goes to Deuce in terms of confidence. IQ is not lacking in confidence at all, but the vibe I get from Deuce is on another level. He feels like a clutch guy in the making, someone who can take that last shot for you. Over time, that's a quality you'll be able to objectify statistically. For now, it's a feeling I have that he's going to be one of those guys who will bring us a championship because of the plays he makes at crunch time.

This steady quality Deuce has is actually what Grimes lacked. When a player has a real fire in the belly, but a steady hand, you may have a killer on your hands.

[cgf]

You can't just look at percentages when there's a big disparity in the kinds of shots guys are taking. ~70% of DDV's shots are 3s, over 91% of which are assisted, and almost 60% of his 2s are assisted. 58% of Deuce's shots are 3s and 89% of those are assisted...though only 32% of his 2s are. As a knick 48.5% of IQ's shots these past two seasons were 3s, and only 72% of those were assisted, with 39.8% of his 2s this season being assisted and 26.3% last season.

This is like when folks just look at TS to compare a finisher like Lauri with a creator like Julius, you need to dig deeper into the numbers to put them in proper context...and IQ was creating way more of his own shots than either Deuce or Donte, so it's simply not an apples to oranges comparison. Those two's shot profile is much closer to Grimes' than IQ's.

Deuce's game is morphing too rapidly now to peg him into the catch and shoot category. He's making shots for himself all over the court lately.

And his playmaking is expanding too. He's keeping his dribble active most of the time looking and probing for either his own shot or to find the open man.

Deuce is often spoken of in terms of how he was playing in the past. His current manifestation is quite different.

Sure, but that cuts both ways. If people are going to talk about his current #s, we should put those #s in their current context. And Deuce's achieving those percentages on a lot more assisted 3s than IQ did, so it's unfair to simply compare their efficiency without noting that difference in the kind of shots they took to achieve that efficiency.

IQ's shot profile was closer to Brunson's than it was McBride, Grimes, or DiVincenzo's...so far. If Deuce creates more & more of his own shots moving forward, then those %s will change and comparing his efficiency to Quickley's will be a more fair exercise, but to this point the #s are what they are.

That doesn't mean that's all he'll be, just that it's disingenuous for people to claim McBride's #s prove we didn't need IQ...sorry if I'm oversimplifying your argument with that summation. Moving IQ + RJ for OG + Precious was a great trade, but IQ did bring something to this team that we haven't yet replaced.

[Clyde_Style]

You can't just look at percentages when there's a big disparity in the kinds of shots guys are taking. ~70% of DDV's shots are 3s, over 91% of which are assisted, and almost 60% of his 2s are assisted. 58% of Deuce's shots are 3s and 89% of those are assisted...though only 32% of his 2s are. As a knick 48.5% of IQ's shots these past two seasons were 3s, and only 72% of those were assisted, with 39.8% of his 2s this season being assisted and 26.3% last season.

This is like when folks just look at TS to compare a finisher like Lauri with a creator like Julius, you need to dig deeper into the numbers to put them in proper context...and IQ was creating way more of his own shots than either Deuce or Donte, so it's simply not an apples to oranges comparison. Those two's shot profile is much closer to Grimes' than IQ's.

Deuce's game is morphing too rapidly now to peg him into the catch and shoot category. He's making shots for himself all over the court lately.

And his playmaking is expanding too. He's keeping his dribble active most of the time looking and probing for either his own shot or to find the open man.

Deuce is often spoken of in terms of how he was playing in the past. His current manifestation is quite different.

Sure, but that cuts both ways. If people are going to talk about his current #s, we should put those #s in their current context. And Deuce's achieving those percentages on a lot more assisted 3s than IQ did, so it's unfair to simply compare their efficiency without noting that difference in the kind of shots they took to achieve that efficiency.

IQ's shot profile was closer to Brunson's than it was McBride, Grimes, or DiVincenzo's...so far. If Deuce creates more & more of his own shots moving forward, then those %s will change and comparing his efficiency to Quickley's will be a more fair exercise, but to this point the #s are what they are.

That doesn't mean that's all he'll be, just that it's disingenuous for people to claim McBride's #s prove we didn't need IQ...sorry if I'm oversimplifying your argument with that summation. Moving IQ + RJ for OG + Precious was a great trade, but IQ did bring something to this team that we haven't yet replaced.

I'm not being disingenuous. Just pointing out that posters here have tried to peg Deuce as a limited player all season long and he keeps evolving past the ceiling many set for him.

[RHODEY]

Deuce's game is morphing too rapidly now to peg him into the catch and shoot category. He's making shots for himself all over the court lately.

And his playmaking is expanding too. He's keeping his dribble active most of the time looking and probing for either his own shot or to find the open man.

Deuce is often spoken of in terms of how he was playing in the past. His current manifestation is quite different.

Sure, but that cuts both ways. If people are going to talk about his current #s, we should put those #s in their current context. And Deuce's achieving those percentages on a lot more assisted 3s than IQ did, so it's unfair to simply compare their efficiency without noting that difference in the kind of shots they took to achieve that efficiency.

IQ's shot profile was closer to Brunson's than it was McBride, Grimes, or DiVincenzo's...so far. If Deuce creates more & more of his own shots moving forward, then those %s will change and comparing his efficiency to Quickley's will be a more fair exercise, but to this point the #s are what they are.

That doesn't mean that's all he'll be, just that it's disingenuous for people to claim McBride's #s prove we didn't need IQ...sorry if I'm oversimplifying your argument with that summation. Moving IQ + RJ for OG + Precious was a great trade, but IQ did bring something to this team that we haven't yet replaced.

I'm not being disingenuous. Just pointing out that posters here have tried to peg Deuce as a limited player all season long and he keeps evolving past the ceiling many set for him.

He's definitely evolving. Handle is steadily getting better, and ofcourse the jumper has been elite lately.

[Jalen Bluntson]

You can't just look at percentages when there's a big disparity in the kinds of shots guys are taking. ~70% of DDV's shots are 3s, over 91% of which are assisted, and almost 60% of his 2s are assisted. 58% of Deuce's shots are 3s and 89% of those are assisted...though only 32% of his 2s are. As a knick 48.5% of IQ's shots these past two seasons were 3s, and only 72% of those were assisted, with 39.8% of his 2s this season being assisted and 26.3% last season.

This is like when folks just look at TS to compare a finisher like Lauri with a creator like Julius, you need to dig deeper into the numbers to put them in proper context...and IQ was creating way more of his own shots than either Deuce or Donte, so it's simply not an apples to oranges comparison. Those two's shot profile is much closer to Grimes' than IQ's.

IQ would be perfect for this team off the bench right now. They could really use his ability to get a shot for himself and his passing would help the other bench players. Brunson also wouldn't have to play as many minutes with another mini-offensive hub. Deuce has been great recently but he still has a way to go to match what IQ gave us, Deuce needs someone else on the court with him to help make plays.

I would love IQ instead of Burks too!

Does Deuce have a better defensive impact than IQ?

[KnicksGadfly]

After all the complaining on the last post game thread about how we don't care about victories, Knicks fans have turned around the narrative by writing about Dick and sharing low IQ opinions

[GONYK]

One more reason I prefer Deuce to IQ:

Guys like Deuce and Donte are essential to a championship roster as these are the kinds of guys who can pour in 20-30 points with relatively low usage

IQ, even as a sixth man, would tend to dominate the ball. Maybe as a PG he is becoming more of a facilitator, but he is still high usage overall

IOW, I want my microwave players to be guys you plug into any rotation and if they're hot they can carry the team for a quarter or more without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like Deuce can give you an instant 10-15 points quickly when they're on.

And Deuce has proven to be pretty consistent as a shooter. He's not just a streak shooter

Having guys who can score in bunches while playing off the ball makes your team far more dangerous than having a roster where every scorer requires lots of touches to produce

There's a reason IQ is not here. He wanted to start. Personally, I wouldn't want the Knicks to be built around him as a starter. He really was ideal as a 6th man IMO

IQ is a better overall player than Deuce, but if I have to choose between which guard I would like as my super 6th man/spot starter, it would be the one that I'm paying $4M over the one who is going to get $25M

[Gravy]

You can't just look at percentages when there's a big disparity in the kinds of shots guys are taking. ~70% of DDV's shots are 3s, over 91% of which are assisted, and almost 60% of his 2s are assisted. 58% of Deuce's shots are 3s and 89% of those are assisted...though only 32% of his 2s are. As a knick 48.5% of IQ's shots these past two seasons were 3s, and only 72% of those were assisted, with 39.8% of his 2s this season being assisted and 26.3% last season.

This is like when folks just look at TS to compare a finisher like Lauri with a creator like Julius, you need to dig deeper into the numbers to put them in proper context...and IQ was creating way more of his own shots than either Deuce or Donte, so it's simply not an apples to oranges comparison. Those two's shot profile is much closer to Grimes' than IQ's.

IQ would be perfect for this team off the bench right now. They could really use his ability to get a shot for himself and his passing would help the other bench players. Brunson also wouldn't have to play as many minutes with another mini-offensive hub. Deuce has been great recently but he still has a way to go to match what IQ gave us, Deuce needs someone else on the court with him to help make plays.

I would love IQ instead of Burks too!

Does Deuce have a better defensive impact than IQ?

I miss Allonzo Trier over this version of Burks lol.

Deuce and IQ are both good defensively, not sure who is better

[Clyde_Style]

One more reason I prefer Deuce to IQ:

Guys like Deuce and Donte are essential to a championship roster as these are the kinds of guys who can pour in 20-30 points with relatively low usage

IQ, even as a sixth man, would tend to dominate the ball. Maybe as a PG he is becoming more of a facilitator, but he is still high usage overall

IOW, I want my microwave players to be guys you plug into any rotation and if they're hot they can carry the team for a quarter or more without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like Deuce can give you an instant 10-15 points quickly when they're on.

And Deuce has proven to be pretty consistent as a shooter. He's not just a streak shooter

Having guys who can score in bunches while playing off the ball makes your team far more dangerous than having a roster where every scorer requires lots of touches to produce

There's a reason IQ is not here. He wanted to start. Personally, I wouldn't want the Knicks to be built around him as a starter. He really was ideal as a 6th man IMO

IQ is a better overall player than Deuce, but if I have to choose between which guard I would like as my super 6th man/spot starter, it would be the one that I'm paying $4M over the one who is going to get $25M

IQ has a much bigger sample size so I think the question of who is a better player will be determined over the coming seasons, not today. Deuce is only starting to get the kind of minutes IQ has had for a while. And IQ was kind of sketchy as a PG initially and now he is getting the experience he needs to perform those duties better.

I understand why anyone would say currently IQ is a better player because he has a much bigger resume up to now. Salaries aside I think they both bring quality defense and scoring punch and facilitation.

Salaries included, yes Deuce is a much better choice. The FO played out this scenario with great skill.

While others may not agree, I actually think Deuce may be a better modular roster player than IQ in that he can play off anyone with the same ease. IQ as a Knick would have very frustrating stretches where he was ball hogging and jacking bad shots. Deuce has been pretty elite about taking care of the ball. IQ could get very sloppy. People may not remember that because when IQ was hot he was phenomenal and could carry the team. I find Deuce more consistent and a more malleable piece in our rotation.

[KnicksGod]

CB wriggling out of his RJ assessment.

What big things did IQ accomplish

We're talking about player development, aren't we.

IQ finished second in 6MOY voting in his 3rd season and scored high every year in impact metrics. It's a positive development arc, no matter how much energy you want to spend diminishing him.

This is pretty much real. I feel like most guys on this forum aren't talking about IQ, RJ or even Obi anymore. But when IQ gets brought up in a certain manner (basically any time he has a bad game), we can pretty much place bets on who at this point.

I think it's a pretty interesting subject, actually, which is why I've become obsessed with IQ, who I think is good. It's stats, eye test, and compensation all rolled into one. Plus he's about to become an RFA.

And it's not like I think he sucks, again. Just that it's a pretty fascinating case study.