Trades and Transactions Ideas Thread

[Wildcat]

I normally don't get deep into this stuff until after the season is over. Then I find out cap hits and the rest. Just looking at a run it back scenario with Thibs as the HC.

Brunson/Deuce
DDV
OG/Hart
Randle/Bogs/Precious
iHart/Mitch/Sims

Who do we replace? We don't even know what the cap would look like after OG gets a deal. We know the most we can pay iHart. Precious might not make the cut depending on cap issues.

I have been saying since last summer that we might not make a star trade until next year's deadline if at all. Time will tell. I give this FO complete trust to make sense of it all and do what makes the most sense. We just went through the most winning in 4 consecutive years than we have during any stretch in the 20 previous years. They seem to know what they are doing, even with a few missteps. 4 seed 5 seed 2 seed three of the last four years. Let that sink in a minute. We won 21 games the year before that.

Those parts fit very nicely together.

I guess we could conceivably work out a trade of Randle for KAT but that would shock me. Thibs loves Julius.

Julius left CAA. Not mere coincidence. Follow the CAA trail.

Spidah
KAT
Embiid
Booker

If Randle is dealt, it's not because he left CAA.

[Richard4444]

What to do with Randle next season? Trade, try to extend for cheap, give him a year to prove himself. His max will be 190/4.

It's expected we offer Brunson his max 160/4 and a similar deal to OG (I hope a little less 140/4).

What does an All-NBA and All Star player have to prove?

1) Good playoff performance

2) He has to prove he is a good second or third option. He played superbly when he was the main offensive player on the team. Being not a great defender and not a great off-ball shooter, he does not strike as the second/third guy archetype.

3) Health; He used to be the iron man. It was used as his best selling point. Right now, he ended up injured for 2 consecutive seasons.

4) Age. He is entering his 30s. Getting more injured. Should we give him a huge contract?

5) Trading value: he is very underrated. His trade value is far lower than his production. We can get an untradable contrct and not great fit and lose the Brunson prime.

[KnixinSix]

What to do with Randle next season? Trade, try to extend for cheap, give him a year to prove himself. His max will be 190/4.

It's expected we offer Brunson his max 160/4 and a similar deal to OG (I hope a little less 140/4).

What does an All-NBA and All Star player have to prove?

1) Good playoff performance

2) He has to prove he is a good second or third option. He played superbly when he was the main offensive player on the team. Being not a great defender and not a great off-ball shooter, he does not strike as the second/third guy archetype.

3) Health; He used to be the iron man. It was used as his best selling point. Right now, he ended up injured for 2 consecutive seasons.

4) Age. He is entering his 30s. Getting more injured. Should we give him a huge contract?

5) Trading value: he is very underrated. His trade value is far lower than his production. We can get an untradable contrct and not great fit and lose the Brunson prime.

It definitely feels like Randle is the odd man out. Him leaving CAA only adds to the intrigue.

I would absolutely take KAT over him but prefer Spidah bc he is less injury prone and would be an absolute amazing backcourt duo with Brunson.

[Richard4444]

I don't see a need to try and extend him early unless he's willing to take another 4 year $114 million contract which he won't (see I'm not a Randle fanatic as some of you probably think). If he plays out next season and looks like a perfect Robin to Brunson's Batman then you give him whatever the market is worth. These are the Knicks so the money isn't an issue. And they will likely be capped out for quite the a long time once (and assuming if) OG and Hartenstein return on new contracts themselves.

Trade? I mean nobody's untouchable in the right deal. But we need to be careful and not fall into the "grass is greener on the other side, the other teams player is better" trap. We get to see all of Randle's faults and his inability to achieve what Brunson has doesn't mean that any other player that you bring in (whose faults we haven't seen up close and personal and who also hasn't achieved anything that Randle hasn't been able to on his own) is any better.

Randle failed to show up in the playoffs 3 times!!!! (a bad performance, another bad performance due to injury, and a no-show).

In addition to that, we keep the flow in the regular season after his injury. It looks like he is not essential to the team after all.

Besides, he is not a great defender and a poor outside shooter.

He doesn't strike as a 50M/y kind of player in any way.

He will demand a 200M contract in 2025. Hitting 30 years old, getting injured more often and possibly declining.

Money can not be a huge concern to the Knicks after this season. But he can turn into an albatross contract in 2025 and be untradable. This season, he can still be an easy contract to be moved because he is expiring and relatively low.

In 2020-2021 Randle was arguably on one of the least talented teams in the NBA (and we're talking about including lottery teams). He was the main reason they even made it to the playoffs in the first place. The Hawks head coach said quite openly and honestly when asked about what their game plan was to beat the Knicks was "throw everything at Randle and force someone else on that team to beat us". Seriously that's what he basically said without thinking and interspersed with a chuckle. So him failing when the Hawks basically threw 3 guys at him whenever he touched the ball isn't exactly a glowing reason to condemn him.

But ok, do you honestly believe that if the Knicks had Bridges instead of Randle that the Knicks would have even made the playoffs with that crap team Randle was surrounded with? If so then why didn't Bridges lead the Nets to a playoffs when he was there as their "best player"? What has Bridges done there in Brooklyn? Does Bridges have excuses for why not but Randle not?

Last season Randle was injured. As it came out, many have said that he probably shouldn't have even been playing. So are you going to blame him for intentionally getting injured last season and then intentionally coming back when not healthy so he look bad rather than just not playing and cashing his check? So we want to demonize him for wanting to try and help his team instead of just staying home and enjoying the time off like many other players probably would have? Because he couldn't pull a Willis Reed he's crap? The team could have said no.

EVERY PLAYER has weaknesses. Love how people only focus on Randle's weak points but not his strengths while simultaneously focusing only on the other teams players strengths and not their weaknesses. This is exactly what the "grass is greener" theory is for. The other guy always has the better thing...until you get that thing and see their weaknesses up close and personal. If Randle was a good defender and outside shooter he'd be a superstar. Which means there'd have been no way he'd ever had gotten on this team to begin with. So, no, he's not Lebron James, he's not Giannis, he's not Jokic, he's not any of those elite players. But that doesn't mean he's crap nor does it mean that Mikal Bridges is one or that they should trade Randle for him.

As far as money demands and that argument? The "fear" that Randle will be worth too much? If he plays at a level where he's worth the max then what's the problem? And why would that be different if Bridges was here instead? Because Bridges is willing to take less money? If so, what makes you believe that? He's making more money than Randle right now. So if he does better than Randle in NY (which is what you are basically guaranteeing) why wouldn't he ask for the super max as well? Why would he ask for less? Are you assuming that because Brunson took pocket change that, because Bridges knows Brunson and is a Nova boy that Bridges would also take less? I'm pretty sure if Brunson was a free agent at the end of this season that he would neither accept the same contract he signed with the Knicks nor would he have any problem getting just about any other team in the NBA interested in either signing him for the max or trading for him at the max.

As far as overall value, it's not hard to argue that Bridges hasn't shown he's worth a lot either.

I usually defend Randle. But the situation has changed.

1) Randle may have his reasons for not performing in the playoffs until now. However, it does not change the fact that he never played well in a playoff game. You can say he never failed because he did not have a fair chance. But you also can say he never passed.

2) Randle is going to be a UFA in 2025. A cap-spaced team can max/near max him. Randle can be useful in a rebuilding team to help the young guys, And his salary can not be a huge concern considering the rookies' lower salaries.

[Wildcat]

What does an All-NBA and All Star player have to prove?

1) Good playoff performance

2) He has to prove he is a good second or third option. He played superbly when he was the main offensive player on the team. Being not a great defender and not a great off-ball shooter, he does not strike as the second/third guy archetype.

3) Health; He used to be the iron man. It was used as his best selling point. Right now, he ended up injured for 2 consecutive seasons.

4) Age. He is entering his 30s. Getting more injured. Should we give him a huge contract?

5) Trading value: he is very underrated. His trade value is far lower than his production. We can get an untradable contrct and not great fit and lose the Brunson prime.

It definitely feels like Randle is the odd man out. Him leaving CAA only adds to the intrigue.

I would absolutely take KAT over him but prefer Spidah bc he is less injury prone and would be an absolute amazing backcourt duo with Brunson.

How does leaving an agency makes him the odd man out? Players loves him, coaches loves him, front office loves him.

Are you comfortable seeing KAT get paid 50/53/57/60 over the next 4 years? I'm not.

[KnixinSix]

1) Good playoff performance

2) He has to prove he is a good second or third option. He played superbly when he was the main offensive player on the team. Being not a great defender and not a great off-ball shooter, he does not strike as the second/third guy archetype.

3) Health; He used to be the iron man. It was used as his best selling point. Right now, he ended up injured for 2 consecutive seasons.

4) Age. He is entering his 30s. Getting more injured. Should we give him a huge contract?

5) Trading value: he is very underrated. His trade value is far lower than his production. We can get an untradable contrct and not great fit and lose the Brunson prime.

It definitely feels like Randle is the odd man out. Him leaving CAA only adds to the intrigue.

I would absolutely take KAT over him but prefer Spidah bc he is less injury prone and would be an absolute amazing backcourt duo with Brunson.

How does leaving an agency makes him the odd man out? Players loves him, coaches loves him, front office loves him.

Are you comfortable seeing KAT get paid 50/53/57/60 over the next 4 years? I'm not.

Prefer Spida. And I dont hate Randle at all but KAT makes us a better team too.

[Richard4444]

1) Good playoff performance

2) He has to prove he is a good second or third option. He played superbly when he was the main offensive player on the team. Being not a great defender and not a great off-ball shooter, he does not strike as the second/third guy archetype.

3) Health; He used to be the iron man. It was used as his best selling point. Right now, he ended up injured for 2 consecutive seasons.

4) Age. He is entering his 30s. Getting more injured. Should we give him a huge contract?

5) Trading value: he is very underrated. His trade value is far lower than his production. We can get an untradable contrct and not great fit and lose the Brunson prime.

It definitely feels like Randle is the odd man out. Him leaving CAA only adds to the intrigue.

I would absolutely take KAT over him but prefer Spidah bc he is less injury prone and would be an absolute amazing backcourt duo with Brunson.

How does leaving an agency makes him the odd man out? Players loves him, coaches loves him, front office loves him.

Are you comfortable seeing KAT get paid 50/53/57/60 over the next 4 years? I'm not.

Randle might ask for a KAT salary to re-sign.

Getting a neutral agency means he wants to play hardball in Free Agency and he is not willing to be nice with the Front Office.

[KnixinSix]

It definitely feels like Randle is the odd man out. Him leaving CAA only adds to the intrigue.

I would absolutely take KAT over him but prefer Spidah bc he is less injury prone and would be an absolute amazing backcourt duo with Brunson.

How does leaving an agency makes him the odd man out? Players loves him, coaches loves him, front office loves him.

Are you comfortable seeing KAT get paid 50/53/57/60 over the next 4 years? I'm not.

Randle might ask for a KAT salary to re-sign.

Getting a neutral agency means he wants to play hardball in Free Agency and he is not willing to be nice with the Front Office.

Almost every CAA client has coincidentally signed an extremely friendly team deal. IQ and RJ not CAA . OG swapped and become CAA. Hart CAA.

[JayTWill]

The organization needs to make a decision about what to do with Randle this offseason. This postseason was going to be critical in evaluating his fit with the team going forward. His playoff struggles will always be held over him until he proves he can step up in the biggest moments. They can run it back again and give him another opportunity to prove himself next year but it will be the last year of his deal before he can opt out.

If he struggles again they will be stuck with a decision to re-sign an ill-fitting player from age 31 to 35 or letting him walk without having cap space to make a big addition to the team. If they don't think he is the right player for the team going forward they should use his salary in a trade to find a better fit for the team.

I would look to move him as i'm not really excited about the idea of possibly re-signing Randle until the age of 35 to a big contract while he is past his physical prime and needs to rely more on things other than his physical gifts. Maybe if he was held more accountable for his bad moments but Thibs hasn't done that since his arrival so I don't expect certain things to change with him.

The team has shown it can have regular season success without Randle and he has not proven that he can take the team to a higher level in the postseason. He played a part in turning the team around after the bubble season but I would have no issue from moving on from him.

[KnixinSix]

The organization needs to make a decision about what to do with Randle this offseason. This postseason was going to be critical in evaluating his fit with the team going forward. His playoff struggles will always be held over him until he proves he can step up in the biggest moments. They can run it back again and give him another opportunity to prove himself next year but it will be the last year of his deal before he can opt out.

If he struggles again they will be stuck with a decision to re-sign an ill-fitting player from age 31 to 35 or letting him walk without having cap space to make a big addition to the team. If they don't think he is the right player for the team going forward they should use his salary in a trade to find a better fit for the team.

I would look to move him as i'm not really excited about the idea of possibly re-signing Randle until the age of 35 to a big contract while he is past his physical prime and needs to rely more on things other than his physical gifts. Maybe if he was held more accountable for his bad moments but Thibs hasn't done that since his arrival so I don't expect certain things to change with him.

The team has shown it can have regular season success without Randle and he has not proven that he can take the team to a higher level in the postseason. He played a part in turning the team around after the bubble season but I would have no issue from moving on from him.

We just line up really well for Spida, KAT or Embiid. All CAA . The latter two though are much bigger health risks with monstrous contracts. Once again Embiid is hobbling into the postseason and he is getting older not younger. Its likely going to worsen. KAT isnt quite as injury prone at least. But that contract is a beast and Minny cant afford his just about 50M next year having to pay both Edwards and Gobert 40+ M with other decent size contracts around them as well.

If Randle is in the deal , KAT is not going to cost us a ton of picks because Minny doesn't have a ton of leverage AND getting Randle is a big piece in a star trade.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The organization needs to make a decision about what to do with Randle this offseason. This postseason was going to be critical in evaluating his fit with the team going forward. His playoff struggles will always be held over him until he proves he can step up in the biggest moments. They can run it back again and give him another opportunity to prove himself next year but it will be the last year of his deal before he can opt out.

If he struggles again they will be stuck with a decision to re-sign an ill-fitting player from age 31 to 35 or letting him walk without having cap space to make a big addition to the team. If they don't think he is the right player for the team going forward they should use his salary in a trade to find a better fit for the team.

I would look to move him as i'm not really excited about the idea of possibly re-signing Randle until the age of 35 to a big contract while he is past his physical prime and needs to rely more on things other than his physical gifts. Maybe if he was held more accountable for his bad moments but Thibs hasn't done that since his arrival so I don't expect certain things to change with him.

The team has shown it can have regular season success without Randle and he has not proven that he can take the team to a higher level in the postseason. He played a part in turning the team around after the bubble season but I would have no issue from moving on from him.

I think they've already made the decision on Randle to be honest, the rationale is simple too, if you look at this team the two positions they can upgrade at are SG and C. You may be saying, well what about PF, can't we upgrade there? I mean they would obviously trade for Giannis if they got a chance to do it, but that would require trading Randle anyway. The team loves OG, he is proving that he can play the 4 right now too, mainly because Josh moves into the starting lineup next to him and whatever rebounding you lose with OG at the 4 instead of Randle you gain it back with Josh doing it at the 3, which is harder for wings to stop.


I think OG at the 4 with Josh at the 3 is giving Tom more defensive versatility, and they'll look to replace Randle's offense at other spots on the floor.

[KnixinSix]

The organization needs to make a decision about what to do with Randle this offseason. This postseason was going to be critical in evaluating his fit with the team going forward. His playoff struggles will always be held over him until he proves he can step up in the biggest moments. They can run it back again and give him another opportunity to prove himself next year but it will be the last year of his deal before he can opt out.

If he struggles again they will be stuck with a decision to re-sign an ill-fitting player from age 31 to 35 or letting him walk without having cap space to make a big addition to the team. If they don't think he is the right player for the team going forward they should use his salary in a trade to find a better fit for the team.

I would look to move him as i'm not really excited about the idea of possibly re-signing Randle until the age of 35 to a big contract while he is past his physical prime and needs to rely more on things other than his physical gifts. Maybe if he was held more accountable for his bad moments but Thibs hasn't done that since his arrival so I don't expect certain things to change with him.

The team has shown it can have regular season success without Randle and he has not proven that he can take the team to a higher level in the postseason. He played a part in turning the team around after the bubble season but I would have no issue from moving on from him.

I think they've already made the decision on Randle to be honest, the rationale is simple too, if you look at this team the two positions they can upgrade at are SG and C. You may be saying, well what about PF, can't we upgrade there? I mean they would obviously trade for Giannis if they got a chance to do it, but that would require trading Randle anyway. The team loves OG, he is proving that he can play the 4 right now too, mainly because Josh moves into the starting lineup next to him and whatever rebounding you lose with OG at the 4 instead of Randle you gain it back with Josh doing it at the 3, which is harder for wings to stop.


I think OG at the 4 with Josh at the 3 is giving Tom more defensive versatility, and they'll look to replace Randle's offense at other spots on the floor.

It certainly seems that way. Good post. The thing about Spidah is not only does he play the 2 well he would be an elite ball handler/distributor at the 1 when Brunson is off the floor. Or you go with KAT is is an elite stretch 5 that can rebound and has some inside game as well. You complement him with the elite defensive C in Mitch and/or IHart and KAT can play some 4 minutes too.

[Wildcat]

What to do with Randle next season? Trade, try to extend for cheap, give him a year to prove himself. His max will be 190/4.

It's expected we offer Brunson his max 160/4 and a similar deal to OG (I hope a little less 140/4).

What does an All-NBA and All Star player have to prove?

1) Good playoff performance

2) He has to prove he is a good second or third option. He played superbly when he was the main offensive player on the team. Being not a great defender and not a great off-ball shooter, he does not strike as the second/third guy archetype.

3) Health; He used to be the iron man. It was used as his best selling point. Right now, he ended up injured for 2 consecutive seasons.

4) Age. He is entering his 30s. Getting more injured. Should we give him a huge contract?

5) Trading value: he is very underrated. His trade value is far lower than his production. We can get an untradable contrct and not great fit and lose the Brunson prime.

There's context to these playoff performances. Who was expecting Randle to carry a lineup of Rose, Bullock, a fresh RJ, and Gibson? Sorry, man, but that roster underachieved tremendously. And I too was calling for Randle to be be traded after last year's playoff performance, but when it came out that he came back too soon and needed surgery on that ankle, it wasn't in his control.

I feel like we've been watching different Knick teams this year. Particularly in January when RJ was traded. He was playing some of his best basketball in January. He was finally running pick and rolls with JB (started before that, but with Robinson before his injury and obviously with RJ before the trade, it wasn't efficient because of the redundant pieces. Randle seems like the perfect 2nd option and he was indeed the second option in January. Being an off-ball shooter certainly doesn't make you a 2nd option.

Those injuries are huge asterisks. He missed 5 games last season. He's not injury prone by any stretch of the imagination. It's called BS luck.

Now, I'll be honest, I don't know what Randle's price tag will be. A lot of things factor into it, like, if he's making 40-45 per, but the salary cap jumped to the 160/170, which I think it's suppose to in the next 2 or 3 years. I think that's a bargain deal for someone who can take over a game.

[KnixinSix]

What does an All-NBA and All Star player have to prove?

1) Good playoff performance

2) He has to prove he is a good second or third option. He played superbly when he was the main offensive player on the team. Being not a great defender and not a great off-ball shooter, he does not strike as the second/third guy archetype.

3) Health; He used to be the iron man. It was used as his best selling point. Right now, he ended up injured for 2 consecutive seasons.

4) Age. He is entering his 30s. Getting more injured. Should we give him a huge contract?

5) Trading value: he is very underrated. His trade value is far lower than his production. We can get an untradable contrct and not great fit and lose the Brunson prime.

There's context to these playoff performances. Who was expecting Randle to carry a lineup of Rose, Bullock, a fresh RJ, and Gibson? Sorry, man, but that roster underachieved tremendously. And I too was calling for Randle to be be traded after last year's playoff performance, but when it came out that he came back too soon and needed surgery on that ankle, it wasn't in his control.

I feel like we've been watching different Knick teams this year. Particularly in January when RJ was traded. He was playing some of his best basketball in January. He was finally running pick and rolls with JB (started before that, but with Robinson before his injury and obviously with RJ before the trade, it wasn't efficient because of the redundant pieces. Randle seems like the perfect 2nd option and he was indeed the second option in January. Being an off-ball shooter certainly doesn't make you a 2nd option.

Those injuries are huge asterisks. He missed 5 games last season. He's not injury prone by any stretch of the imagination. It's called BS luck.

Now, I'll be honest, I don't know what Randle's price tag will be. A lot of things factor into it, like, if he's making 40-45 per, but the salary cap jumped to the 160/170, which I think it's suppose to in the next 2 or 3 years. I think that's a bargain deal for someone who can take over a game.

I like Randle quite a bit but a KAT, Spidah or Embiid would make this team better than Randle does.

[Wildcat]

It definitely feels like Randle is the odd man out. Him leaving CAA only adds to the intrigue.

I would absolutely take KAT over him but prefer Spidah bc he is less injury prone and would be an absolute amazing backcourt duo with Brunson.

How does leaving an agency makes him the odd man out? Players loves him, coaches loves him, front office loves him.

Are you comfortable seeing KAT get paid 50/53/57/60 over the next 4 years? I'm not.

Prefer Spida. And I dont hate Randle at all but KAT makes us a better team too.

Spida is not happening. I don't know where he ends up, but it isn't in cards anymore. Knicks are getting extreme value from Donte. I don't know what more you can ask from the position other than "superstar appeal". If you're worried about injury prone players, I don't understand how you're not worried about Spida or KAT's injury track record. KAT plays 50 games next year, you cool with hi making 50 mil?

[KnixinSix]

How does leaving an agency makes him the odd man out? Players loves him, coaches loves him, front office loves him.

Are you comfortable seeing KAT get paid 50/53/57/60 over the next 4 years? I'm not.

Prefer Spida. And I dont hate Randle at all but KAT makes us a better team too.

Spida is not happening. I don't know where he ends up, but it isn't in cards anymore. Knicks are getting extreme value from Donte. I don't know what more you can ask from the position other than "superstar appeal". If you're worried about injury prone players, I don't understand how you're not worried about Spida or KAT's injury track record. KAT plays 50 games next year, you cool with hi making 50 mil?

Spidah can play the combo guard role that we were clearly after Dejounte for. We dont have a true point behind Brunson. Spidah would take so much pressure off him in the backcourt. So it absolutely COULD happen.

The other guy besides KAT who is a bit injury prone but no where near as bad as Embiid would be Zion another CAA client who has clearly wanted to play in New York

[BKlutch]

Those parts fit very nicely together.

I guess we could conceivably work out a trade of Randle for KAT but that would shock me. Thibs loves Julius.

Looking at that list, the one place we are a bit short is SG. I know, Deuce can play both guard roles, but what if one of the other guards goes down for a month? Who do we play -- Charlie Brown, Shake? Could this board even tolerate Burks? We need to be stronger at that last guard backup position.

Exactly and thats where a combo guard like Spidah fits perfectly

Spida doesn't want to come here to play off the bench. We risk too much paying for him and disrupting the team chemistry.

[KnixinSix]

Looking at that list, the one place we are a bit short is SG. I know, Deuce can play both guard roles, but what if one of the other guards goes down for a month? Who do we play -- Charlie Brown, Shake? Could this board even tolerate Burks? We need to be stronger at that last guard backup position.

Exactly and thats where a combo guard like Spidah fits perfectly

Spida doesn't want to come here to play off the bench. We risk too much paying for him and disrupting the team chemistry.

Lol hes not playing off fhe bench I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend....

This is roughly what it would look like....


Line-up (Minutes):
Mitchell Robinson(30), Precious Achiwa (18)
OG (25), Hart(13), Achiwa (10)
Hart (20), OG (8), Okoro(20)
D-Mitch(20), DDV (28)
Brunson(35), D-Mitch(13)

Spidah and Brunson START on the floor together and then play together with JB at the 1 and DMitch at the 2 for like 20 out of a possible 48 minutes. Of those 20 minutes together Brunson can play off ball saving additional abuse on his body for like 10 of those 20 minutes.

Folks are being way too black and white on this. Its much more nuanced than just Brunson is a great point so another backcourt player would be useless. Brunson can still be the clear alpha of this team and main point guard. And they have the personalities to mesh well together. This team would be SIGNIFICANTLY better with Spidah added to it.

Secondly the other options almost all fit in the too old, too injury prone or simply not available bucket. Could a surprise guy pop up and become available? Possibly. But make no mistake Spida would be an incredible addition and I believe the fit would be excellent for the reasons mentioned above and on other posts.

[Spree2Houston]

RJ left CAA and got traded a few months later

[BKlutch]

RJ left CAA and got traded a few months later

It was probably the soonest we could get OG.