OT: China-Japan dispute over island getting serious

[Starks1994]

Anyone keeping up with the story coming out of the South China Seas? China is sending over thousands "fishing boats" to the island today. All of these protests going on in the middle east and wall street are getting a lot of attention, but this island dispute has been steadily spiraling out of control for the past few weeks

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/1 ... de=1532967

[tjumper78]

i dont know all the details about this so i should not side with any one particular country.
however, seeing how japan is involved in similar disputes with other countries as well, most people should be able to tell who is in the wrong.
with their land sinking into ocean and getting polluted with nukes, shouldnt they be "taking over" bigger lands instead of these tiny islands?

[E86]

i dont know all the details about this so i should not side with any one particular country.
however, seeing how japan is involved in similar disputes with other countries as well, most people should be able to tell who is in the wrong.
with their land sinking into ocean and getting polluted with nukes, shouldnt they be "taking over" bigger lands instead of these tiny islands?

lolwut

[Starks1994]

i dont know all the details about this so i should not side with any one particular country.
however, seeing how japan is involved in similar disputes with other countries as well, most people should be able to tell who is in the wrong.
with their land sinking into ocean and getting polluted with nukes, shouldnt they be "taking over" bigger lands instead of these tiny islands?

I don't see how this can be resolved. Both countries make historic claims to an island and when it comes to ancient maps, i doubt any country can really lay claim to such a small island. From what I read when the Japanese Empire was defeated, they needed to give back all of their new territory. Since WW2 the Japanese held onto that island w/o any dispute from China. However, geologist discovered $17.5 trillion worth of natural gas and $20 billion worth of oil under the island. Since that discovery China has been trying to re-claim the island as their own.

[johnnywishbone]

i dont know all the details about this so i should not side with any one particular country.
however, seeing how japan is involved in similar disputes with other countries as well, most people should be able to tell who is in the wrong.
with their land sinking into ocean and getting polluted with nukes, shouldnt they be "taking over" bigger lands instead of these tiny islands?

I don't see how this can be resolved. Both countries make historic claims to an island and when it comes to ancient maps, i doubt any country can really lay claim to such a small island. From what I read when the Japanese Empire was defeated, they needed to give back all of their new territory. Since WW2 the Japanese held onto that island w/o any dispute from China. However, geologist discovered $17.5 trillion worth of natural gas and $20 billion worth of oil under the island. Since that discovery China has been trying to re-claim the island as their own.

Where did you see those numbers posted on the gas and oil? I really don't believe there is 17.5 trillion dollars worth of natural gas. I don't think there is that much natural gas in the United States.

But to the larger picture. I think the days of regional war between Japan and China were left behind in the 20th century. Much more likely this will be litigated in some venue. The Middle East is a different situation because they are still working on leaving the 9th century, never mind the 20th.

[king billing]

i dont know all the details about this so i should not side with any one particular country.
however, seeing how japan is involved in similar disputes with other countries as well, most people should be able to tell who is in the wrong.
with their land sinking into ocean and getting polluted with nukes, shouldnt they be "taking over" bigger lands instead of these tiny islands?

Japan has never had a good relationship with Korea or China. The younger generation is pretty naive to this stuff, but the old folks still hold resentment.

China is flexing it's muscles across the world. It teaches its people a lot of propoganda, and they didn't care about the islands until they found natural gases.

My question is why did China wait this long to make a fuss?

[DocZaius]

I mean seriously, please don't make China mad.....

[aq_ua]

My question is why did China wait this long to make a fuss?

What ever the reason, it has clearly nothing to do with it being an election year.

[J-Rich-]

Japan has no right to cry about this. They did in humane **** in the past and don't deserve any land except for Japan itself. If I were China I'd just nuke their ass and take the land by force if those cry babies keep on crying.

[aq_ua]

Japan has no right to cry about this. They did in humane **** in the past and don't deserve any land except for Japan itself. If I were China I'd just nuke their ass and take the land by force if those cry babies keep on crying.

Japan laid claim to the islands in 1895, they weren't taken as part of any bloody imperialist war movement. Do you consider them part of Japan now?

[DrKnick]

Still at it, huh?

[Starks1994]

The scary part of all this is that the United States is an official ally of Japan and recently installed missile defense batterys around Japan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19622514), so it looks like the US is reasserting its pact to defend Japan. No country could afford a conflict, especially a war at this point, but if China and Japan continue to provoke each other, the US will get dragged into it. China is claiming this century as "their century" and its only a matter of time before that kind of propaganda gets the nation fired up. The fact that the Chinese government is allowing these protests is pretty unsettling.

[juxtaposition]

So many ancient grudges to attend to and so little time!

[NoLayupRule]

this is as old a grudge as france / germany and weve seen how well that worked out for the world last century

[nykballa2k4]

The scary part of all this is that the United States is an official ally of Japan and recently installed missile defense batterys around Japan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19622514), so it looks like the US is reasserting its pact to defend Japan. No country could afford a conflict, especially a war at this point, but if China and Japan continue to provoke each other, the US will get dragged into it. China is claiming this century as "their century" and its only a matter of time before that kind of propaganda gets the nation fired up. The fact that the Chinese government is allowing these protests is pretty unsettling.

Lemme get this right:

USA owes China a ton of $
USA is an ally of Japan
Japan has 20 billion dollars under their mattress.

USA helps Japan, Japan kicks us some money, we clear some of our debt with China.

[Starks1994]

The scary part of all this is that the United States is an official ally of Japan and recently installed missile defense batterys around Japan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19622514), so it looks like the US is reasserting its pact to defend Japan. No country could afford a conflict, especially a war at this point, but if China and Japan continue to provoke each other, the US will get dragged into it. China is claiming this century as "their century" and its only a matter of time before that kind of propaganda gets the nation fired up. The fact that the Chinese government is allowing these protests is pretty unsettling.

Lemme get this right:

USA owes China a ton of $
USA is an ally of Japan
Japan has 20 billion dollars under their mattress.

USA helps Japan, Japan kicks us some money, we clear some of our debt with China.

We actually owe about the same amount of money to Japan.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/5-unite ... lders9.htm

[nykballa2k4]

The scary part of all this is that the United States is an official ally of Japan and recently installed missile defense batterys around Japan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19622514), so it looks like the US is reasserting its pact to defend Japan. No country could afford a conflict, especially a war at this point, but if China and Japan continue to provoke each other, the US will get dragged into it. China is claiming this century as "their century" and its only a matter of time before that kind of propaganda gets the nation fired up. The fact that the Chinese government is allowing these protests is pretty unsettling.

Lemme get this right:

USA owes China a ton of $
USA is an ally of Japan
Japan has 20 billion dollars under their mattress.

USA helps Japan, Japan kicks us some money, we clear some of our debt with China.

We actually owe about the same amount of money to Japan.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/5-unite ... lders9.htm

well chit

[barborous]

The scary part of all this is that the United States is an official ally of Japan and recently installed missile defense batterys around Japan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19622514), so it looks like the US is reasserting its pact to defend Japan. No country could afford a conflict, especially a war at this point, but if China and Japan continue to provoke each other, the US will get dragged into it. China is claiming this century as "their century" and its only a matter of time before that kind of propaganda gets the nation fired up. The fact that the Chinese government is allowing these protests is pretty unsettling.

Lemme get this right:

USA owes China a ton of $
USA is an ally of Japan
Japan has 20 billion dollars under their mattress.

USA helps Japan, Japan kicks us some money, we clear some of our debt with China.

Also Japan's own debts make ours look like peanuts.

[adrenaLINe]

The scary part of all this is that the United States is an official ally of Japan and recently installed missile defense batterys around Japan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19622514), so it looks like the US is reasserting its pact to defend Japan. No country could afford a conflict, especially a war at this point, but if China and Japan continue to provoke each other, the US will get dragged into it. China is claiming this century as "their century" and its only a matter of time before that kind of propaganda gets the nation fired up. The fact that the Chinese government is allowing these protests is pretty unsettling.

Lemme get this right:

USA owes China a ton of $
USA is an ally of Japan
Japan has 20 billion dollars under their mattress.

USA helps Japan, Japan kicks us some money, we clear some of our debt with China.

Also Japan's own debts make ours look like peanuts.

Japans debt is largely internal debt so its not so bad... as its people hold its debt




but only problem is... Japan is a literally dying country...

its population is expected to decrease from 127 million to 95 million by 2050

and its elderly as a percentage of the population will push up around 38% of the population by 2050

the only way Japan could have reversed that was open up their doors to migration 10 years ago letting 10 million people in a year...

only way Japan stops its decline is to open up its borders... and the only way it fills those quotas is to allow Chinese migration...

[adrenaLINe]

here is the way I look at it

the Chinese...weather it be the Taiwanese or PRC have a claim on the Islands since the 1400s

and im pretty sure China has wanted the Islands back since then... especially after WWII

problem was... in 1830s Britain and 7 other countries (USA, and Japan included) fought wars with China... to continue selling China Opium in return for its treasures...

control/influence over China continued until the late 1930s and early 1940s when Japan pushed the other nations out...

then China fought a civil war... where the losers ran to Taiwan...

my view is yes the land originally belongs to the Chinese... Taiwan probably having a stronger claim...

but tough luck because Japan now controls the land...

might is right may not happen much these days.... but it happened in the past... and thats when the dispute and control over these Islands took place...

however it should be cautioned these days... China claims almost the entire South China sea.... from a historical basis...

and when it comes to a might is right basis... these days I am reading even the USA cannot match China in a conventional arms race...