Do you like Jr Smith?

[AmazingJason]

so where are all JR Smith haters? Cause all I see is love toward JR in this topic and it was really brutal during the season

He came on in the 2nd half. As long as he's in the correct role and his strengths are maximized, he is a contributor.

Exactly. But folks can't get pass the "oh but he should be able to do so much more if he wasn't a knucklehead, so he must be useless" train of thought. Just because he hasn't done what one with a full set of brain cells would have done with the physical and basketball tools he has doesn't mean he's not a contributor.

That would be more appropriate in his 3rd-5th year, but the guy's entering his 11th season. He is what he is.

[moocow007]

He came on in the 2nd half. As long as he's in the correct role and his strengths are maximized, he is a contributor.

Exactly. But folks can't get pass the "oh but he should be able to do so much more if he wasn't a knucklehead, so he must be useless" train of thought. Just because he hasn't done what one with a full set of brain cells would have done with the physical and basketball tools he has doesn't mean he's not a contributor.

That would be more appropriate in his 3rd-5th year, but the guy's entering his 11th season. He is what he is.

Yep.

[dakomish23]

I think overall Smith has good intentions on the court, and probably even off the court. There are a lot more cold and calculating and diabolical players out there that should be hated (if you had to hate) than Smith. You just don't see it cause most of those types hide it better. Smith never talks bad about other players, he never shies away from taking blame, sure his sentences are sometimes slurred and he may not have the greatest command of the English language and of course he can do some childish things but if that was the criteria for hating someone, my guess is a lot of guys on this board would be hated as well. Hard to really hate someone that tries even if sometimes it results in embarrassment or mistakes.

You'll never question if he gave it his all out there. What you question is the "all" he gave. He plays the game the way a 9 year old plays 2K15. Chuck 3's, let one person dribble the ball for 15 seconds, waive away picks to do foolish crossovers, and throw down some of the nicest dunks you'll see in a game.

He isn't a champion, he's a novelty act. He belongs in the And 1 tour, not the NBA. Maybe PJax and DFish get his head right and teach him how to tap into his potential and use his natural abilities for the betterment of the team. But he's 30. At some point the words "potential" and "natural abilities" have to be removed and we have to solely judge him on the output we see on the court.

And we've seen it "all" out there.

A novelty act? A guy (name George Karl) once said that JR Smith is a potent weapon that needs to be wielded correctly. How is that a novelty act? You are, overreacting and letting emotions and your general dislike for the guy take over rational thought. And no one said anything about "potential" or "natural abilities". Output? Where were you for the 2012-2013 season and the 2nd half of the 2013-2014 season when JR Smith's play was one of the few things that kept the Knicks going and kept them competitive? Was that all an "act"? Was his play in Denver (where he was an important part of Karl's rotation that spawned 50+ win seasons) all an act to? What is the devilish plot that JR Smith is planning or that fate has burdened Knick fans with? Just because Smith isn't the type of mature player that most of us wish he was doesn't mean that he's a piece of crap (which is what you are implying). He's an extremely useful player if he can be used correctly (see most of his career where he was actually utilized correctly). Just because he can't live up to what one would expect someone with his skills can do doesn't again mean he's useless. Folks for some odd reason cannot differentiate one from the other.

So now we're only using the good and ignoring the bad. He choked against LAL in the WCF. He choked against MIA in 2012. He choked against Indy in 2013. When the stakes are raised JR doesn't measure up.

Maybe if you took the rose colored glasses off youd see a high volume shooter with an extremely poor shot selection who's pros do not out way the cons. If he's so great, why is he getting paid 6 million a year? Why wasn't there one offer sheet in 2013? Just answer that question. Or answer why he got kicked out of China. And when he did, how come only we and the Clippers inquired? There's a reason why, and it has nothing to do with perception. This guy is a super talented head case who will never take the next step in his career. You're better off getting a less talented guard who's game is more conducive to the team outlook.

No one's denying the potential for all star talent. Where did I say he was a piece of crap? He's got game but it's more sizzle than steak. That's why I consider him a novelty act. He is who he is. And if he wasn't a NYK player, a lot of ppl supporting him would be bashing him.

And since you brought Karl up:

"It seems like he wants to have a little bit of an immature mockery of some of the standards," said Karl, an ESPN analyst.

"He's going to wake up someday and he's going to realize that he's thrown away some great opportunities and great years because of this mockery that he brings to the game," Karl said.

[NYKAL]

^

[Knicksfan1992]

You'll never question if he gave it his all out there. What you question is the "all" he gave. He plays the game the way a 9 year old plays 2K15. Chuck 3's, let one person dribble the ball for 15 seconds, waive away picks to do foolish crossovers, and throw down some of the nicest dunks you'll see in a game.

He isn't a champion, he's a novelty act. He belongs in the And 1 tour, not the NBA. Maybe PJax and DFish get his head right and teach him how to tap into his potential and use his natural abilities for the betterment of the team. But he's 30. At some point the words "potential" and "natural abilities" have to be removed and we have to solely judge him on the output we see on the court.

And we've seen it "all" out there.

You gotta love the senseless stereotyping of JR because he's covered in tattoos and gives off the vibe that he's a gangster. Tell me when J.R. has waived off picks.... Or done all of these crossovers that you claim he does? Funny thing is that one of J.R'S weaknesses coming into the league was his suspect ball handling which he has worked very hard to fix while in the league. So he belongs in And 1 street ball because of average handles? Clearly you're argument is just a convenient way to say you don't like JR. Which is fine but, don't make up things he does on the court just because he "portrays an image" of someone you want him to be to justify your hate.

I usually stay away from JR arguments because they lack rationality because of his "strong" personality which in turn brings out string feelings about him. Sure, JR has his weaknesess. He does have a poor shot selection when put in iso situations and is inconsistent with his effort on defense. Some of that has to do with coaching not having a clear offensive system and letting a relatively low IQ player run isos too many times. But saying one of the best catch and shoot 3 point shooters takes too many 3's is a dumb argument. And also if he performed those dunks you mentioned more often that would mean he is driving and getting to the lane more which would be a good thing for JR.

First off, you're dead **** wrong about me judging JR based on his appearance or vibe. I work in Flatbush at KCHC where there's a new gun shot victim everyday. I grew up in a black neighborhood. And when I wasn't there, I was in upstate New York. If you know anything about New York, you'd know there are some pretty ghetto areas in Albany, Binghamton and Troy. This is what I've always been around. A lot of my good friends are project dudes. So why the fuq would I judge a fake wanksta from the suburbs in Jersey based on his appearance? He like to party and get tore up. Who doesn't? Drugs? Everyone I know does coke. Drinking? When alcohol does it's taxes it files me as a dependent. I do not give a flying **** about any of that because I wasn't much different. Beyond foolish that you'd assume something like that.

2nd, you're blind if you don't see JR's penchant to take step back long 2's off crossovers. His signature is the reverse between the legs for a long 2. He takes 3's off the dribble after dribbling in a circle till the shot clock is at 2. That's his game. He makes it sometimes and fans like you bust a but over "his talent". If you elite talent, that elite talent will show more often then once every 5 games.

Below is his shot chart. 50% of his shots are from 3. 31% of his shots are from 2 outside the paint. 81% of his field goals are outside the paint. And the huge majority are not catch and shoot opportunities. So no this fool does not drive enough even though he's over 50% when he does.

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/playe ... 3-2014-REG

You got an actual basketball argument or are you gonna make some more **** up?

I'm sorry for branding you as someone who stereotypes people. Wasn't my intention. I was saying that on more of a macro scale. Came out of my mouth wronng. My Bad.

But, According to NBA.com player tracking stats J.R. Smith attempted 1.6 pull up 3's per game. Which is defined as a player taking 1 dribble before shooting the ball. And 5.2 pull up shots per game. J.R. Smith also averaged 4.7 3pt. catch and shoot field goal attempts and 5.1 total catch and shoot opportunities per game. Like I said... does J.R. make bad decisions in iso situations? Absolutely. is his game predicated around dribbling around and chucking shots when the clock hits two? No. It's actually quite the opposite. Does he take too many 1 on 1 contested shots? Yes 5 per game is too much for a guy of J.R.'s talent level but, I think that's a mixture of Woody and Smith. Woody was one of the bad J.R. enablers. Hopefully JR responds to the triangle well because he can be a beast in it. And am i still making things up?

[BodyCount]

He's getting 6 mil a year. For that money we aren't getting a better SG.

[dakomish23]

You gotta love the senseless stereotyping of JR because he's covered in tattoos and gives off the vibe that he's a gangster. Tell me when J.R. has waived off picks.... Or done all of these crossovers that you claim he does? Funny thing is that one of J.R'S weaknesses coming into the league was his suspect ball handling which he has worked very hard to fix while in the league. So he belongs in And 1 street ball because of average handles? Clearly you're argument is just a convenient way to say you don't like JR. Which is fine but, don't make up things he does on the court just because he "portrays an image" of someone you want him to be to justify your hate.

I usually stay away from JR arguments because they lack rationality because of his "strong" personality which in turn brings out string feelings about him. Sure, JR has his weaknesess. He does have a poor shot selection when put in iso situations and is inconsistent with his effort on defense. Some of that has to do with coaching not having a clear offensive system and letting a relatively low IQ player run isos too many times. But saying one of the best catch and shoot 3 point shooters takes too many 3's is a dumb argument. And also if he performed those dunks you mentioned more often that would mean he is driving and getting to the lane more which would be a good thing for JR.

First off, you're dead **** wrong about me judging JR based on his appearance or vibe. I work in Flatbush at KCHC where there's a new gun shot victim everyday. I grew up in a black neighborhood. And when I wasn't there, I was in upstate New York. If you know anything about New York, you'd know there are some pretty ghetto areas in Albany, Binghamton and Troy. This is what I've always been around. A lot of my good friends are project dudes. So why the fuq would I judge a fake wanksta from the suburbs in Jersey based on his appearance? He like to party and get tore up. Who doesn't? Drugs? Everyone I know does coke. Drinking? When alcohol does it's taxes it files me as a dependent. I do not give a flying **** about any of that because I wasn't much different. Beyond foolish that you'd assume something like that.

2nd, you're blind if you don't see JR's penchant to take step back long 2's off crossovers. His signature is the reverse between the legs for a long 2. He takes 3's off the dribble after dribbling in a circle till the shot clock is at 2. That's his game. He makes it sometimes and fans like you bust a but over "his talent". If you elite talent, that elite talent will show more often then once every 5 games.

Below is his shot chart. 50% of his shots are from 3. 31% of his shots are from 2 outside the paint. 81% of his field goals are outside the paint. And the huge majority are not catch and shoot opportunities. So no this fool does not drive enough even though he's over 50% when he does.

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/playe ... 3-2014-REG

You got an actual basketball argument or are you gonna make some more **** up?

I'm sorry for branding you as someone who stereotypes people. Wasn't my intention. I was saying that on more of a macro scale. Came out of my mouth wronng. My Bad.

But, According to NBA.com player tracking stats J.R. Smith attempted 1.6 pull up 3's per game. Which is defined as a player taking 1 dribble before shooting the ball. And 5.2 pull up shots per game. J.R. Smith also averaged 4.7 3pt. catch and shoot field goal attempts and 5.1 total catch and shoot opportunities per game. Like I said... does J.R. make bad decisions in iso situations? Absolutely. is his game predicated around dribbling around and chucking shots when the clock hits two? No. It's actually quite the opposite. Does he take too many 1 on 1 contested shots? Yes 5 per game is too much for a guy of J.R.'s talent level but, I think that's a mixture of Woody and Smith. Woody was one of the bad J.R. enablers. Hopefully JR responds to the triangle well because he can be a beast in it. And am i still making things up?

As someone who's game revolved around handle, shootin and decent hops because I didn't have a good first step, I know when I see someone who's dribbling without a purpose. Or better said, he rarely achieved the purpose he intended with his handle. He's a great catch and shoot player. I hated we didn't run shooter sets for him like they do for Ray Allen / Korver etc. especially with his ability to finish when he does go to the lane. His biggest weakness is shot selection. Tell me you don't see 3-4x per game he steps rt, brings the ball back between the legs to his left, and shoots a leaner. I hate that shot unless you're Kobe or Durant. And they have to take those type of shots because the entire defense is keyed in on them. JR has no need to settle for that. ISO plays for him are a failure IMO. Off the ball, running around screens, take the 3 or go toward the hoop and finish or dish it off to the open big whose man rotated.

It seems so simple, but his game hasn't evolved to the best way possible to stay within an offense and make a team win. Maybe that's coaching for putting the ball in his hands to make a play instead of running a play for him. And hopefully DFish and Pjax recognize that if he's still here. If he tries to go back to ISO 1 on 1 game, bench him. I won't shed any tears if / when he gets moved. I like THJ or Shump starting and the other backing him up and splitting the minutes.

All good on the other topic. Trust me I'm the last guy to care about anything not related to the sport unless he's committing crimes against humanity.

[yb90]

I agree about JR and his handle. He doesn't have a great first step. He needs to come off screens to get that head start and separation most times. His catch and shoot ability has always been top notch for the most part when it comes to threes. He should be used as a korver/redick/allen type but with the added dimension of transition ability.

I think the triangle maybe the best thing for him. He needs to be in a heavy movement system without the ball to get back to his high efficiency days. Designed plays with him coming off screens to get into the paint is going to help too.

[bballoctober]

JR Smith has starter talent and skills, is OK as a sixth man, but his best role should be as a rotation player that a team can do without if he's off like back in Denver.

[dakomish23]

JR Smith has starter talent and skills, is OK as a sixth man, but his best role should be as a rotation player that a team can do without if he's off like back in Denver.

Yep. I think he's great as the "break in case of emergency" guy. Otherwise I don't trust him.

[Fortune55]

I love watching JR Smith play. he makes a fair amount of stupid decisions when playing but he finds away to redeem himself later and he gets the crowd into it when he does. I wouldnt trade him unless we got something better. I can see him as a starter but i like him in the 6th man role.

[frogfood]

fuel for the haters: http://instagram.com/p/sJOixbNfCl

J.R. Smith: 'I'm on pace to be one of the best shooters the game [has] ever seen'

LMAO, really dude?

[Deeeez Knicks]

fuel for the haters: http://instagram.com/p/sJOixbNfCl

J.R. Smith: 'I'm on pace to be one of the dumbest chuckers the game [has] ever seen'

LMAO, really dude?

fixed

[GettinitDone]

fuel for the haters: http://instagram.com/p/sJOixbNfCl

J.R. Smith: 'I'm on pace to be one of the best shooters the game [has] ever seen'

LMAO, really dude?

Curry goes

[KnicksGod]

Not sure how anybody really could. Even if you think he's a better player than some/I do, how could you really like him? He's not funny to anybody but a sophomoric buffoon type. I guess he's a bit more genuine than some players. He's bottom of the barrel in just general IQ and smarts.

[blueNorange]

he's currently the worst.