Just in case "anyone" has missed this article

[prophet_of_rage]

PJax has surrounded Melo with shooters (in theory) and defenders (in theory). Melo isn't the type of player you can throw on with anyone as the main piece. There's a specific blueprint you have follow. That's a knock on him. But there are so few players you put with anyone and any system that will just produces W'S.

Just glad we have someone to build around. Glad we've decided to try to build around him. Whether that produces a playoff spot this year, idk. I'll vote yes because I've seen him drag way worse into the playoffs. testament to his greatness

What worse cast did he drag to the playoffs? Denver teams have been deep with a high pressure style. He's taken average to good teams to the playoffs not bad teams.


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[N Y K]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/8/26/9204611/Suns-Markieff-Morris-Pacers-Paul-George-trade-scenario

Fun trade scenario

[dakomish23]

PJax has surrounded Melo with shooters (in theory) and defenders (in theory). Melo isn't the type of player you can throw on with anyone as the main piece. There's a specific blueprint you have follow. That's a knock on him. But there are so few players you put with anyone and any system that will just produces W'S.

Just glad we have someone to build around. Glad we've decided to try to build around him. Whether that produces a playoff spot this year, idk. I'll vote yes because I've seen him drag way worse into the playoffs. testament to his greatness

What worse cast did he drag to the playoffs? Denver teams have been deep with a high pressure style. He's taken average to good teams to the playoffs not bad teams.


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That 11-12 roster once Lin & Amare went down. It was him, Tyson, a rookie Shump, an inconsistent JR, a one skill Novak and I don't even remember who was the PG. Melo was unstoppable the end of the season.

[Capn'O]

But Lebron did miraculously win without Love and Irving in the playoffs this past year. I don't think that Melo would've done the same with the same team, which is not necessarily a knock on Melo. He's just not Lebron. Though, interestingly, when matched up head to head, Melo does seem to get the better of him. Go figure.

But I agree with you and br7 that we have a team that should make the playoffs if the team remains reasonably healthy. We shall see.

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

I remember the Cavs winning two games. That's two games more than Melo would've won with that same squad. Melo would've never put that team on his back and done what Lebron did and you know it.

But if you don't believe, maybe you'll believe JVG:

"If you flipped LeBron James to Golden State and you flipped [Stephen] Curry to Cleveland, what would the series be?" Van Gundy asked. "It'd be a sweep. It'd be a sweep, and that's not knocking Curry; Curry's had an unbelievable year ... But there's no doubt who's the MVP of this series."

Van Gundy continued by saying, "What other player could have two wins and two other competitive losses — and I'd even say Game 4 was competitive until the start of the fourth, right? Who else could have pulled this off? Anyone?"

Lowe then wondered where the Cavs would be if an elite forward like Carmelo Anthony was in LeBron's place. Lowe said he didn't think the Cavs would be a playoff team, and if they were, they'd be knocked out of the first round. Van Gundy replied:

"Oh, they don't win 30 games. That's no knock on Carmelo Anthony ... I think he's an outstanding player, and his season where he led the Knicks to the division title and they won 54, I think spoke to just how great he was or is. But that being said, this team, with this rotation, this lack of depth, you couldn't go on and win enough games to make the playoffs. I just don't see how. Listen, let's just say you took James off this team, and the rest of the guys were left to play a regular season. Would they win 15 games in a regular season? ... No, they couldn't average — they wouldn't be able to average 80 points."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-had-to-carry-cavaliers-in-nba-finals-2015-6#ixzz3k2PG3WZR

I presume he's talking about the team without Irving and Love?

That's basically last year's Knicks... so yeah

[GYK]

there's never been a lack of players to praise Melo. they are rarely talked about but Dudley/Battier get front page news. because he's good enough to talk about but a lack of winning so they bash him.
there was a Patrick mention but the description was technically illegal defense. PnR not being that dominant during this era as well.
SVG right if its once Love/Kyrie go down. before the Moz/Shump/JR trade they probably wouldn't be as good but once together that still would be a Finals team. 15 Kyrie would be in the running for the best player Melo ever played with and probably top five for this version of Love. at this very point JR is one of the best players he's ever played with the others are post prime Billups/Iverson/Martin and Nene.
anyway the only way the Knicks or any team without Lebron/Mike/Shaq/Wilt/Kareem win a ring if the phrase "look at the team passing, this is beautiful basketball" is frequently said about them. we look to be building a deep team that will play a system, much like the Warriors/Spurs/Mavs. we have a couple quality players Melo/Lopez/Affalo/Quinn/Kevin and hoping for a resuragance of Jose(would be more confident with an upgrade like Hill or Collinson. would take a non-point like Bradley). we have young guys, KP/Grant/Williams being important. with 22.5% of cap room for next yea we can even get deeper. honestly the difference between being considered deep now and waiting for next year is Jose.
anyway Melo is pretty dominant.

[prophet_of_rage]

PJax has surrounded Melo with shooters (in theory) and defenders (in theory). Melo isn't the type of player you can throw on with anyone as the main piece. There's a specific blueprint you have follow. That's a knock on him. But there are so few players you put with anyone and any system that will just produces W'S.

Just glad we have someone to build around. Glad we've decided to try to build around him. Whether that produces a playoff spot this year, idk. I'll vote yes because I've seen him drag way worse into the playoffs. testament to his greatness

What worse cast did he drag to the playoffs? Denver teams have been deep with a high pressure style. He's taken average to good teams to the playoffs not bad teams.


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That 11-12 roster once Lin & Amare went down. It was him, Tyson, a rookie Shump, an inconsistent JR, a one skill Novak and I don't even remember who was the PG. Melo was unstoppable the end of the season.

That's a tough one because he was injured when the Knicks were winning, they were losing with him and Lin in the lineup and then they went on a tear with D'Antoni being replaced by Woodson. Baron Davis manned the point then and Bibby I think. That team was around 500 most of the year and then went on a long losin streak and then a longer winning streak. Mouth there more proven players than this years roster.


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[prophet_of_rage]

there's never been a lack of players to praise Melo. they are rarely talked about but Dudley/Battier get front page news. because he's good enough to talk about but a lack of winning so they bash him.
there was a Patrick mention but the description was technically illegal defense. PnR not being that dominant during this era as well.
SVG right if its once Love/Kyrie go down. before the Moz/Shump/JR trade they probably wouldn't be as good but once together that still would be a Finals team. 15 Kyrie would be in the running for the best player Melo ever played with and probably top five for this version of Love. at this very point JR is one of the best players he's ever played with the others are post prime Billups/Iverson/Martin and Nene.
anyway the only way the Knicks or any team without Lebron/Mike/Shaq/Wilt/Kareem win a ring if the phrase "look at the team passing, this is beautiful basketball" is frequently said about them. we look to be building a deep team that will play a system, much like the Warriors/Spurs/Mavs. we have a couple quality players Melo/Lopez/Affalo/Quinn/Kevin and hoping for a resuragance of Jose(would be more confident with an upgrade like Hill or Collinson. would take a non-point like Bradley). we have young guys, KP/Grant/Williams being important. with 22.5% of cap room for next yea we can even get deeper. honestly the difference between being considered deep now and waiting for next year is Jose.
anyway Melo is pretty dominant.

How was the Patrick reference illegal defence? He was playing the ball handler. He wasn't guarding an area or playing his man out of area. Utah didn't have pick and roll as a staple? It wasn't every single possession but lots of guards used it.

Melo had deep teams in Denver.

And teams with LEbron, Mike, Shaq, wilt, Kareem et al win exactly because of the passing. Every team wins with passing.


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[j4remi]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/8/26/9204611/Suns-Markieff-Morris-Pacers-Paul-George-trade-scenario

Fun trade scenario

Probably the wrong thread and the trade scenario is about as unlikely as they come...but I'd totally sign up for any scenario where we moved Calderon and got George Hill and a 2nd rounder.

[GYK]

there's never been a lack of players to praise Melo. they are rarely talked about but Dudley/Battier get front page news. because he's good enough to talk about but a lack of winning so they bash him.
there was a Patrick mention but the description was technically illegal defense. PnR not being that dominant during this era as well.
SVG right if its once Love/Kyrie go down. before the Moz/Shump/JR trade they probably wouldn't be as good but once together that still would be a Finals team. 15 Kyrie would be in the running for the best player Melo ever played with and probably top five for this version of Love. at this very point JR is one of the best players he's ever played with the others are post prime Billups/Iverson/Martin and Nene.
anyway the only way the Knicks or any team without Lebron/Mike/Shaq/Wilt/Kareem win a ring if the phrase "look at the team passing, this is beautiful basketball" is frequently said about them. we look to be building a deep team that will play a system, much like the Warriors/Spurs/Mavs. we have a couple quality players Melo/Lopez/Affalo/Quinn/Kevin and hoping for a resuragance of Jose(would be more confident with an upgrade like Hill or Collinson. would take a non-point like Bradley). we have young guys, KP/Grant/Williams being important. with 22.5% of cap room for next yea we can even get deeper. honestly the difference between being considered deep now and waiting for next year is Jose.
anyway Melo is pretty dominant.

How was the Patrick reference illegal defence? He was playing the ball handler. He wasn't guarding an area or playing his man out of area. Utah didn't have pick and roll as a staple? It wasn't every single possession but lots of guards used it.

Melo had deep teams in Denver.

And teams with LEbron, Mike, Shaq, wilt, Kareem et al win exactly because of the passing. Every team wins with passing.


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Chasing. You either step up and actively double or switch. There's no chasing. Chasing implies a lag.

Those teams were ok. They weren't deep by any means. They weren't top heavy and Karl didn't go deep. So by no means were they deep.

Uh huh.

[prophet_of_rage]

there's never been a lack of players to praise Melo. they are rarely talked about but Dudley/Battier get front page news. because he's good enough to talk about but a lack of winning so they bash him.
there was a Patrick mention but the description was technically illegal defense. PnR not being that dominant during this era as well.
SVG right if its once Love/Kyrie go down. before the Moz/Shump/JR trade they probably wouldn't be as good but once together that still would be a Finals team. 15 Kyrie would be in the running for the best player Melo ever played with and probably top five for this version of Love. at this very point JR is one of the best players he's ever played with the others are post prime Billups/Iverson/Martin and Nene.
anyway the only way the Knicks or any team without Lebron/Mike/Shaq/Wilt/Kareem win a ring if the phrase "look at the team passing, this is beautiful basketball" is frequently said about them. we look to be building a deep team that will play a system, much like the Warriors/Spurs/Mavs. we have a couple quality players Melo/Lopez/Affalo/Quinn/Kevin and hoping for a resuragance of Jose(would be more confident with an upgrade like Hill or Collinson. would take a non-point like Bradley). we have young guys, KP/Grant/Williams being important. with 22.5% of cap room for next yea we can even get deeper. honestly the difference between being considered deep now and waiting for next year is Jose.
anyway Melo is pretty dominant.

How was the Patrick reference illegal defence? He was playing the ball handler. He wasn't guarding an area or playing his man out of area. Utah didn't have pick and roll as a staple? It wasn't every single possession but lots of guards used it.

Melo had deep teams in Denver.

And teams with LEbron, Mike, Shaq, wilt, Kareem et al win exactly because of the passing. Every team wins with passing.


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Chasing. You either step up and actively double or switch. There's no chasing. Chasing implies a lag.

Those teams were ok. They weren't deep by any means. They weren't top heavy and Karl didn't go deep. So by no means were they deep.

Uh huh.

Chasing the ball handler has always been legal. Chasing means what it means you go after the ball handler. Even if you lagged that wasn't illegal defence. You could always sag. What made defence illegal is if you weren't actively guarding the ball or your man in your area. So if your man was above the three point line you couldn't help into the paint without double teaming the ball. But on the pick and roll you could definitely step out and chase the ballhandler while your guard recovered either over or under the screen and then you could run back to your man or stay and double. There was never anything illegal about that.

Melo in Denver played with Camby, Martin, Smith, Kleiza, Nene, Miller, Iverson, Billups, Carter, Boykins, Evans, Patterson and Najera for multiple seasons. Those were deep teams. They had very very good roleplayers around Anthony with a second star in the Iverson years and some frontcourt star power in Camby, Hilario and Martin who could defend and score enough to occupy the front court bruisers. I'd argue those Nuggets teams were deeper top to bottom than anything Melo has had in NY. His best point guard here has been injured Billups. I'd argue that Camby at the time and NY Chandler were a push. Amar'e was as capable a scorer and as bad a fit as Iverson. Smith cancels himself out but they never had a front court bruiser like Evans, a backcourt bully like Patterson, guards ever as good as Boykins or Miller or Carter.

[Sark]

I don't believe you meant to say Melo had a decent supporting cast last year. I'm hoping, like you, that the current team is enough to make it to the playoffs. I don't ever think that one superstar, whether it's Melo or Lebron, can win by himself. That's why Lebron created the Big 3 in Miami, why he needs Love and Irving in Cleveland. Kobe wins nothing without the team he used to have,even though he's still a player. Let's hope the team Phil built is enough to give us some excitement and make it to the playoffs, where their depth should help.

But Lebron did miraculously win without Love and Irving in the playoffs this past year. I don't think that Melo would've done the same with the same team, which is not necessarily a knock on Melo. He's just not Lebron. Though, interestingly, when matched up head to head, Melo does seem to get the better of him. Go figure.

But I agree with you and br7 that we have a team that should make the playoffs if the team remains reasonably healthy. We shall see.

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

36/13/9, and getting FMVP votes on the losing team, is getting your ass handed to you?

[prophet_of_rage]

But Lebron did miraculously win without Love and Irving in the playoffs this past year. I don't think that Melo would've done the same with the same team, which is not necessarily a knock on Melo. He's just not Lebron. Though, interestingly, when matched up head to head, Melo does seem to get the better of him. Go figure.

But I agree with you and br7 that we have a team that should make the playoffs if the team remains reasonably healthy. We shall see.

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

36/13/9, and getting FMVP votes on the losing team, is getting your ass handed to you?

If it suits the narrative then yes.

[Greenie]

But Lebron did miraculously win without Love and Irving in the playoffs this past year. I don't think that Melo would've done the same with the same team, which is not necessarily a knock on Melo. He's just not Lebron. Though, interestingly, when matched up head to head, Melo does seem to get the better of him. Go figure.

But I agree with you and br7 that we have a team that should make the playoffs if the team remains reasonably healthy. We shall see.

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

36/13/9, and getting FMVP votes on the losing team, is getting your ass handed to you?

They LOST! L. O. S. T!

LLLLLOOOOSSSSTTTT.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOST.

[GYK]

How was the Patrick reference illegal defence? He was playing the ball handler. He wasn't guarding an area or playing his man out of area. Utah didn't have pick and roll as a staple? It wasn't every single possession but lots of guards used it.

Melo had deep teams in Denver.

And teams with LEbron, Mike, Shaq, wilt, Kareem et al win exactly because of the passing. Every team wins with passing.


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Chasing. You either step up and actively double or switch. There's no chasing. Chasing implies a lag.

Those teams were ok. They weren't deep by any means. They weren't top heavy and Karl didn't go deep. So by no means were they deep.

Uh huh.

Chasing the ball handler has always been legal. Chasing means what it means you go after the ball handler. Even if you lagged that wasn't illegal defence. You could always sag. What made defence illegal is if you weren't actively guarding the ball or your man in your area. So if your man was above the three point line you couldn't help into the paint without double teaming the ball. But on the pick and roll you could definitely step out and chase the ballhandler while your guard recovered either over or under the screen and then you could run back to your man or stay and double. There was never anything illegal about that.

Melo in Denver played with Camby, Martin, Smith, Kleiza, Nene, Miller, Iverson, Billups, Carter, Boykins, Evans, Patterson and Najera for multiple seasons. Those were deep teams. They had very very good roleplayers around Anthony with a second star in the Iverson years and some frontcourt star power in Camby, Hilario and Martin who could defend and score enough to occupy the front court bruisers. I'd argue those Nuggets teams were deeper top to bottom than anything Melo has had in NY. His best point guard here has been injured Billups. I'd argue that Camby at the time and NY Chandler were a push. Amar'e was as capable a scorer and as bad a fit as Iverson. Smith cancels himself out but they never had a front court bruiser like Evans, a backcourt bully like Patterson, guards ever as good as Boykins or Miller or Carter.

Your taking what you know of today's game and placing it on the wrong era. Next week Shaq week. Sure it's lots of Orlando. You can watch it on NBA TV. You didn't chase. Actively doubled, bumped or switched. I didn't quote you for a reason I didn't want to call you out.

Why is that considered deep to you? Nene/Martin weren't healthy players. Nene never reached anything special in any era. Iverson/Billups didn't play together. Smith was the most consistent. Boykins/Carter were backups. Carter a third string backup that Karl just loved. Camby was also injury prone and an offensive liability. The others weren't there long and not together. This isn't a deep team. We just seen one win that legitamley went ten deep every game. Nuggets didn't.

[BKlutch]

But Lebron did miraculously win without Love and Irving in the playoffs this past year. I don't think that Melo would've done the same with the same team, which is not necessarily a knock on Melo. He's just not Lebron. Though, interestingly, when matched up head to head, Melo does seem to get the better of him. Go figure.

But I agree with you and br7 that we have a team that should make the playoffs if the team remains reasonably healthy. We shall see.

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

36/13/9, and getting FMVP votes on the losing team, is getting your ass handed to you?

Lebron played great. (Although by the 4th quarters, he wore down a little bit.) What was left of his team didn't match his level of play.

[MrProb]

It's pretty underwhelmed when you compared players that Melo has been playing with to LeBron's, Wade's or Durant's.

I've been watching Melo since he entered the league, he turned a freaking ugly franchise at the time (iirc they were pretty horrible, if not, dead last in the whole league) into a playoff team in the first year he came with "very little change" to the roster, yep he had that much impact on a **** team in the very tough Western conference and if you want to look it up go ahead and look it up between the 02/03 Nuggets and 03/04 Nuggets.

Talking about good players he ever played with, we start with an injury riddled Camby who spent a lot of time on the bench, Boykins...really ? you want to mention him here? do you want Earl Boykins as your starter? I mean he's a freaking fighter and a freak athlete but his size limited him very much and then Kenyon Martin, I like him a lot though his IQ is questionable but he's one of the best Melo ever played with. Nene also another one of the best, always liked him as a player. Iverson? as great as he is, I don't like him much but also undeniable one of the best he ever played with as well.Then come Mr.Big shots, floor general, excellent free throw shooters, mediocre jumpers and an ok 3pointers I don't know who gave him the nickname but one thing though Melo's FT % improved by a lot playing with Chauncey and he's also one of the best Melo ever played with as well but IMO he's an overrated player, he played in a completed team like Pistons that team with any decent PG could go very far, Prince, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace and Sheed ? that right there is an ultimate fighters/defender team.

You look at whom Melo played with in Denver and most of them were forgetable/old or washed up, he has never teamed up with a prime Westbrook or someone like DWade and Chris Bosh.

Enough babbling i gotta go back to work.

[Sark]

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

36/13/9, and getting FMVP votes on the losing team, is getting your ass handed to you?

They LOST! L. O. S. T!

LLLLLOOOOSSSSTTTT.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOST.

That's his team, not him. If Melo is gonna get a pass for missing the playoffs 2 straight years during his prime, then certainly Lebron should get a pass for losing to a historically great team with his top 2 teammates injured.

[dakomish23]

What worse cast did he drag to the playoffs? Denver teams have been deep with a high pressure style. He's taken average to good teams to the playoffs not bad teams.


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That 11-12 roster once Lin & Amare went down. It was him, Tyson, a rookie Shump, an inconsistent JR, a one skill Novak and I don't even remember who was the PG. Melo was unstoppable the end of the season.

That's a tough one because he was injured when the Knicks were winning, they were losing with him and Lin in the lineup and then they went on a tear with D'Antoni being replaced by Woodson. Baron Davis manned the point then and Bibby I think. That team was around 500 most of the year and then went on a long losin streak and then a longer winning streak. Mouth there more proven players than this years roster.


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Disagree. He had 1 guy - TC. And Melo went nova the final 17 or so games

[HarthorneWingo]

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

I remember the Cavs winning two games. That's two games more than Melo would've won with that same squad. Melo would've never put that team on his back and done what Lebron did and you know it.

But if you don't believe, maybe you'll believe JVG:

"If you flipped LeBron James to Golden State and you flipped [Stephen] Curry to Cleveland, what would the series be?" Van Gundy asked. "It'd be a sweep. It'd be a sweep, and that's not knocking Curry; Curry's had an unbelievable year ... But there's no doubt who's the MVP of this series."

Van Gundy continued by saying, "What other player could have two wins and two other competitive losses — and I'd even say Game 4 was competitive until the start of the fourth, right? Who else could have pulled this off? Anyone?"

Lowe then wondered where the Cavs would be if an elite forward like Carmelo Anthony was in LeBron's place. Lowe said he didn't think the Cavs would be a playoff team, and if they were, they'd be knocked out of the first round. Van Gundy replied:

"Oh, they don't win 30 games. That's no knock on Carmelo Anthony ... I think he's an outstanding player, and his season where he led the Knicks to the division title and they won 54, I think spoke to just how great he was or is. But that being said, this team, with this rotation, this lack of depth, you couldn't go on and win enough games to make the playoffs. I just don't see how. Listen, let's just say you took James off this team, and the rest of the guys were left to play a regular season. Would they win 15 games in a regular season? ... No, they couldn't average — they wouldn't be able to average 80 points."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-had-to-carry-cavaliers-in-nba-finals-2015-6#ixzz3k2PG3WZR

I presume he's talking about the team without Irving and Love?

That's basically last year's Knicks... so yeah

Yep, whether Melo could do the same thing that LBJ did with that team minus Irving and Love.

[HarthorneWingo]

I remember LeBron getting his ass handed to him in the finals.

I remember the Cavs winning two games. That's two games more than Melo would've won with that same squad. Melo would've never put that team on his back and done what Lebron did and you know it.

But if you don't believe, maybe you'll believe JVG:

"If you flipped LeBron James to Golden State and you flipped [Stephen] Curry to Cleveland, what would the series be?" Van Gundy asked. "It'd be a sweep. It'd be a sweep, and that's not knocking Curry; Curry's had an unbelievable year ... But there's no doubt who's the MVP of this series."

Van Gundy continued by saying, "What other player could have two wins and two other competitive losses — and I'd even say Game 4 was competitive until the start of the fourth, right? Who else could have pulled this off? Anyone?"

Lowe then wondered where the Cavs would be if an elite forward like Carmelo Anthony was in LeBron's place. Lowe said he didn't think the Cavs would be a playoff team, and if they were, they'd be knocked out of the first round. Van Gundy replied:

"Oh, they don't win 30 games. That's no knock on Carmelo Anthony ... I think he's an outstanding player, and his season where he led the Knicks to the division title and they won 54, I think spoke to just how great he was or is. But that being said, this team, with this rotation, this lack of depth, you couldn't go on and win enough games to make the playoffs. I just don't see how. Listen, let's just say you took James off this team, and the rest of the guys were left to play a regular season. Would they win 15 games in a regular season? ... No, they couldn't average — they wouldn't be able to average 80 points."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-had-to-carry-cavaliers-in-nba-finals-2015-6#ixzz3k2PG3WZR

Not reading that. What I remember is two games won with Bron on GOD mode and cats like Delly and TT playing out of their minds. One of those games a dude named Kyrie played(and damn well) but got hurt in overtime.

Keep the agenda up though Wingo.

Take away Kyrie and Love for a full season and make JR the #2 and Iman the #3 and see how far Bron will get.

Of course you didn't read it. Why educate yourself?

Yes, that's JVG, Lowe and I are talking about ... could Melo do what Lebron did on a Cavs team without Kyrie and Love? And the answer is a resounding "No." Just deal with it.