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Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach

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Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#1 » by Red Vines » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:37 pm

This is a great summary of what a lot of us have been thinking:

Fisher needs to decide what players he wants to use late in games. Obviously, Anthony needs to be on the floor, and so does Porzingis. Galloway’s shooting and defense on quicker guards makes him an obvious addition as well. The other two players can rotate between Calderon, Afflalo, Lopez and even Grant depending on matchups. There’s no reason for Amundson, Seraphin, or Thomas to be playing over any of the players above. They just aren’t as good. Twice in recent games Fisher has given Thomas the responsibility of inbounding in key end-of-game situations, and twice he has thrown bad passes.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/knicks-derek-fisher-john-schmeelk-carmelo-anthony/
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#2 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:42 pm

Red Vines wrote:This is a great summary of what a lot of us have been thinking:

Fisher needs to decide what players he wants to use late in games. Obviously, Anthony needs to be on the floor, and so does Porzingis. Galloway’s shooting and defense on quicker guards makes him an obvious addition as well. The other two players can rotate between Calderon, Afflalo, Lopez and even Grant depending on matchups. There’s no reason for Amundson, Seraphin, or Thomas to be playing over any of the players above. They just aren’t as good. Twice in recent games Fisher has given Thomas the responsibility of inbounding in key end-of-game situations, and twice he has thrown bad passes.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/knicks-derek-fisher-john-schmeelk-carmelo-anthony/


Yeah, it is so obvious some of us know this like we know how to breathe, yet we're stuck with Fisher so WTF are we gonna do about it? Apparently, the defenders of the realm believe he can be a good coach and it is our duty as loyalist troops to stick up for him. Call them experiments, but he does it in crunch time, so he's basically less intelligent when it comes to coaching than the average fan so far.

As of now, some of the players seem to be figuring each other out, but assuming that Fisher is responsible for that is an exercise in optimism mostly.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#3 » by j4remi » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:47 pm

It definitely co-signs a lot of our thoughts, but Imho say BY's thread on the subject is better coverage of the same topics and then some than this guy's article.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#4 » by F N 11 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:49 pm

Lance Thomas love is just dumb.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#5 » by JXL » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:49 pm

Red Vines wrote:This is a great summary of what a lot of us have been thinking:

Fisher needs to decide what players he wants to use late in games. Obviously, Anthony needs to be on the floor, and so does Porzingis. Galloway’s shooting and defense on quicker guards makes him an obvious addition as well. The other two players can rotate between Calderon, Afflalo, Lopez and even Grant depending on matchups. There’s no reason for Amundson, Seraphin, or Thomas to be playing over any of the players above. They just aren’t as good. Twice in recent games Fisher has given Thomas the responsibility of inbounding in key end-of-game situations, and twice he has thrown bad passes.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/knicks-derek-fisher-john-schmeelk-carmelo-anthony/


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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#6 » by moocow007 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:56 pm

Red Vines wrote:This is a great summary of what a lot of us have been thinking:

Fisher needs to decide what players he wants to use late in games. Obviously, Anthony needs to be on the floor, and so does Porzingis. Galloway’s shooting and defense on quicker guards makes him an obvious addition as well. The other two players can rotate between Calderon, Afflalo, Lopez and even Grant depending on matchups. There’s no reason for Amundson, Seraphin, or Thomas to be playing over any of the players above. They just aren’t as good. Twice in recent games Fisher has given Thomas the responsibility of inbounding in key end-of-game situations, and twice he has thrown bad passes.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/knicks-derek-fisher-john-schmeelk-carmelo-anthony/


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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#7 » by islanders11040 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:20 pm

So no one sees the positive of having lance thomas out there at the end. Hes been a fantastic defender who can actually defend 1-4. With the way we switch at times, its very usefull
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#8 » by NOOB77 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:21 pm

islanders11040 wrote:So no one sees the positive of having lance thomas out there at the end. Hes been a fantastic defender who can actually defend 1-4. With the way we switch at times, its very usefull



With Melo's early season focus on defending. AA defense. Gallo defense. KP defense. I think Thomas defense is un-needed at the end of the games.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#9 » by nykfan42 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:34 pm

I like Lance but can't argue that him and Lou Amundson should be playing over KOQ and RoLo. Especially in the 4th. KOQ and D Will seem to be out of the rotation lately.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#10 » by JohnStarksTheDunk » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Fisher needs to decide what players he wants to use late in games. Obviously, Anthony needs to be on the floor, and so does Porzingis. Galloway’s shooting and defense on quicker guards makes him an obvious addition as well. The other two players can rotate between Calderon, Afflalo, Lopez and even Grant depending on matchups. There’s no reason for Amundson, Seraphin, or Thomas to be playing over any of the players above. They just aren’t as good. Twice in recent games Fisher has given Thomas the responsibility of inbounding in key end-of-game situations, and twice he has thrown bad passes.


This is a pretty well-articulated version of what a lot of us having been saying in other threads. It's great that Lance, Lou, and Seraphin have been giving us quality minutes, but Fish seems to be over-inflating the impact of their over-achievement. Even when playing better than expectations, these guys just aren't as good as Lopez and Afflalo.

I actually don't have a problem with Lance or Seraphin being one of the final 5 occasionally, depending on matchups, foul trouble, or other game dynamics. But to be consistently going with Lance and/or Lou down the stretch in the important final moments of close games is foolish, especially if it's at the expense of someone like KP or Gallo (and eventually Afflalo, as he continues to get back into the swing of things), who are strong on both sides of the ball.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#11 » by AmazingJason » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:44 pm

John Schmeelk needs to GTFO and STFU.

Not for having an opinion. But for reading this forum and copying and pasting the f*ck out of it. That's why it sounds like an "articulate summary." Unfortunately, our writings are public domain and we have no control over use of the content, but this so-called "journalist" essentially plagiarized us. This isn't the first time, but it's just really, really pathetic.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#12 » by munchies » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:46 pm

islanders11040 wrote:So no one sees the positive of having lance thomas out there at the end. Hes been a fantastic defender who can actually defend 1-4. With the way we switch at times, its very usefull


our team is full of capable defenders. defense is there, its the offence that struggles. lance had one good game, i give him that. however, that doesnt mean he earned the spot over other starters
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#13 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:48 pm

AmazingJason wrote:John Schmeelk needs to GTFO and STFU.

Not for having an opinion. But for reading this forum and copying and pasting the f*ck out of it. That's why it sounds like an "articulate summary." Unfortunately, our writings are public domain and we have no control over use of the content, but this so-called "journalist" essentially plagiarized us. This isn't the first time, but it's just really, really pathetic.


Yeah and I still haven't gotten any Godzingis royalty checks in the mail. Petty theft at its finest!
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#14 » by CharlesOakley » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:58 pm

There are three things you need from an NBA coach:
1 - smart rotations and substitutions
2 - effective timeout plays
3 - creating an identity

I will say that Fisher is subpar on 1 and 2. On 3 I've liked what I've seen. Players are engaged, supporting one another and buying into the system. I'll give him credit for that but he needs to learn how to closeout games more than the players do.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#15 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:07 pm

Red Vines wrote:This is a great summary of what a lot of us have been thinking:

Fisher needs to decide what players he wants to use late in games. Obviously, Anthony needs to be on the floor, and so does Porzingis. Galloway’s shooting and defense on quicker guards makes him an obvious addition as well. The other two players can rotate between Calderon, Afflalo, Lopez and even Grant depending on matchups. There’s no reason for Amundson, Seraphin, or Thomas to be playing over any of the players above. They just aren’t as good. Twice in recent games Fisher has given Thomas the responsibility of inbounding in key end-of-game situations, and twice he has thrown bad passes.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/knicks-derek-fisher-john-schmeelk-carmelo-anthony/


We just need to have 4 other players who can shoot, along with Melo, on the court and then run our normal offense. Stop breaking up the flow just to hand it to Melo on a clear out ISO. It takes us out of our rhythm. Then as the game winds down, Fisher can go offense/defense with substitutions.

One point of disagreement with Schmeelk, who I like. I'd play Seraphin more. Then bring in Lopez on defense.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#16 » by Nazrmohamed » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:23 pm

I think Fish has done a fine job with rotations. Obviously we all write in stone our desired lineups and think they always give us the best chance to win but let's face it. We've been wrong.

Bash Lance and next day he plays great
Bash Seraphin and then he plays great

I think Fish has simply employed a strategy that unless your name is Melo, Kristaps or Calderon your minutes in gcrunch time will be based on the hot hand and so far it's worked. The times that it hasn't worked have pretty much been when one of those protected players I mentioned **** the bed. Its a long season. O'Quinn and Williams will work themselves back in.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#17 » by Iron Mantis » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:28 pm

Proper utilization of rotations would have us looking at a 9-3 record instead of 6-6.

Fisher may not think these early games are important, but they are EXTREMELY important. Sitting at .500 isn't good enough for a playoff spot in the east anymore.

These unnecessary losses from "tinkering" will bite him in the butt later, book it.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#18 » by moocow007 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:30 pm

islanders11040 wrote:So no one sees the positive of having lance thomas out there at the end. Hes been a fantastic defender who can actually defend 1-4. With the way we switch at times, its very usefull


At the end of the day, it's not about preventing the other team from scoring, it's about scoring more than the other team.

Using the popular analogy "defense wins championships" as a point of reference, the actual reality is "scoring more points than the other team wins championships". It's about optimizing offense and defense, not just defense over offense. The Knicks defense has actually been pretty good. The problem has been scoring in the 4th. Lance Thomas is simply not an offensive player. If the problem is scoring, a defensive player probably isn't the best idea to have especially with time ticking down and baskets needing to be made. Lance Thomas can't pass (as we've seen), he can't create shots, he can't shoot consistently. Hoping that he can grab a rebound here and there and put it back is not an ideal option when you offense is floundering and you need points.

And believe me this isn't to discredit Thomas' contributions...it's meant to cast doubt in Fisher's rotations and when to use whom.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#19 » by JXL » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:32 pm

moocow007 wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:So no one sees the positive of having lance thomas out there at the end. Hes been a fantastic defender who can actually defend 1-4. With the way we switch at times, its very usefull


At the end of the day, it's not about preventing the other team from scoring, it's about scoring more than the other team. Folks keep saying defense wins championships when the reality is scoring more points than the other team wins championships. So there's got to be a balance. The Knicks defense has actually been pretty good. The problem has been scoring in the 4th. Lance Thomas is simply not an offensive player. If the problem is scoring, a defensive player probably isn't the best idea to have especially with time ticking down and baskets needing to be made.

And believe me this isn't to discredit Thomas' contributions...it's meant to cast doubt in Fisher's rotations and when to use whom.


It's simple: Lance Thomas shouldn't be in the game in the latter parts of the 4th quarter. Zero scoring.
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Re: Schmeelk: Knicks Players Are Figuring Things Out Faster Than Their Coach 

Post#20 » by moocow007 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:35 pm

JXL wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:So no one sees the positive of having lance thomas out there at the end. Hes been a fantastic defender who can actually defend 1-4. With the way we switch at times, its very usefull


At the end of the day, it's not about preventing the other team from scoring, it's about scoring more than the other team. Folks keep saying defense wins championships when the reality is scoring more points than the other team wins championships. So there's got to be a balance. The Knicks defense has actually been pretty good. The problem has been scoring in the 4th. Lance Thomas is simply not an offensive player. If the problem is scoring, a defensive player probably isn't the best idea to have especially with time ticking down and baskets needing to be made.

And believe me this isn't to discredit Thomas' contributions...it's meant to cast doubt in Fisher's rotations and when to use whom.


It's simple: Lance Thomas shouldn't be in the game in the latter parts of the 4th quarter. Zero scoring.


Yes, this is the Cliff Notes version of my long blurb. :D

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