Let's try to end this thing about Melo a reasonable way

[MrProb]

First of all, mods please allow this, this is not because I don't want the Knicks to trade him, in fact, I think he should be traded since the arrival of Bargnani but I'm tired of seeing arguments about Melo in every single thread and I'm sure I'm not the only one, not to mentioned this kind of argument surely drove some posters off the board because how unproductive it is.

I kindly ask you Ibraheim, Sark, MP4LIFE, DAGAWD, Thugger and every other poster that doesn't like Melo's style of play, please, please be serious about your answer, please no green font or what so ever, try to be specific or maybe a counter argument from my post or you can even say you simply hate him if you're serious about it but please be serious about your answer.

**Please understand I'm not trying to call out certain posters, those names were just some that I remembered from the top of my head whom don't like Melo so every one else is welcome to chime in but again please be serious**

**Also I apologize for my English but I'll try my best**



So why the hate/blame towards Melo ?

Let's start with 2013 playoffs the furthest the Knicks ever been since Melo trade, our series against the Pacers, everyone knows we lost 2-4 but it was a closed series but it's just a knock to Melo for some posters while I think it's one of hell of a performance considered our team that time.

Carmelo was, by far, the best player in that serires, at 38.9 MPG (3rd highest) he averages 28.5/7.8/1.3 on .433 FG/.348 3FG/.868 FT
Second best was Paul George, at 43.1 MPG (highest in the series) he averages 19.5/7.0/5.0/1.7(steals) on .394/.267/.600

We only had 2 others players that averages over 10 PPG, JR Smith and Raymond Felton at 13.5 and 11.0 respectively but JR was shooting horribly, his FG% was about .29 and his 3FG% was .23 while Raymond Felton was shooting decently, he's Raymond Felton and he was our 2nd best player in that series, second-best-player, Raymond Felton, yes it's him.

Tyson Chandler, our supposedly 2nd best player on the team averages 6.8 PPG 6.0 RPG in 29.8 MPG, yep.

I don't think we need to talk about Amare.

**If you want to see more stats on every player in that series you can go to here : http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-pacers-vs-knicks.html**

If you check above, you can clearly see the difference between the Knicks starters and the Pacers', other than JR and Shump, I don't think none of them are in the league anymore other than Chandler. Kidd became a manager right after that (he averages 0 PPG at 14.8 MPG in the series by the way) everyone is else is out pretty much out of the league.


Do you still think it's Melo's fault for not getting through the Pacers all by himself ?(and He played that series with shoulder injury, KG yanked his arm and popped his shoulder in the first round, knee injury from Dwight in Dec. against the Lakers as well)

KG's foul : http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/05/kevin-garnett-tried-injuring-carmelo-anthony-gif

Dwight's foul happened at 2:44 :

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Now let's talk about seasons after that fun but a heart breaking year.

In 13-14, the Knicks acquired Andrea Bargnani as a "supposedly" to be our 2nd best player, yes Andrea Bargnani if you want to see how great our roster was see here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_New_York_Knicks_season

Regardless, we had 37 wins and missed the 8th seed by a single game even though we would most likely be swept by the Pacers if we got in but it would still be fun to be in the playoffs none the less.

But the question is what can you do with that kind of roster ?

(Let's just skip 14-15 and 15-16)

Some say the furthest he could bring us is the semi-final because that's who he is, that's Carmelo Anthony, that's how he plays and that's the best he could do but why ? was it really because of him ? I would like a reasonable answer other than simply saying it because that's what happened regardless of help and/or team we built around him.


Right now, he's not as good as before, he's not as healthy and can't run the floor like he could, he's old, his body clearly worn out from injuries and yes he has his flaws especially his defense commitment.

But has Melo really been the Knicks problem ?

Please tell me.

[NevaGivinKnixUp]

[Thugger HBC]

So basically you create a new thread that will likely lead to more arguing? The issue is some fans who love certain players more than the team they play for (some have admitted the became Knicks fans when Melo arrived) can't understand the critique of a player.

I see you cats, somebody could be in a game thread and say "bad shot melo", and here y'all come ready to defend when the player himself doesn't defend at all.

Secondly, calling out posters isn't gonna end well, especially if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Please understand I'm not trying to call out certain posters, those names were just some that I remembered from the top of my head whom don't like Melo so every one else is welcome to chime in but again please be serious**

Even though I know those others guys stand, I'm only gonna speak for myself. I don't hate Melo, never have, never will. I've likely been a fan of Melo longer than you've been born. Difference is.....I'm not jaded. I critique every player, including the ones I like.

Melo at this point is best suited as a third option of a ship team, second on a team trying to qualify for postseason play. Could be the best sixth man ever if he dropped his ego.

Up until he did his free agency thing and found out teams weren't that interested (Dallas offered no contract, Bulls didn't even try to make space, Melo totally goes against Morey's analytics), Melo had my overall support as a player, even though I knew he was falling out of his prime rather quickly and was a mistake to resign, especially with an NTC.

As a side note, that some are aware of...I don't support the player on the court as much primarily because my younger kids at the time have moved on in their fandom. They used to attend his basketball camp every year since he's been here, but they couldn't sign up for that year because it was postponed, so they went to Clyde's camp. From there my kids don't like Melo.

Now from a business standpoint I support Melo 100%, have met him personally and his family. For instance I own all of Melo's Jordan branded shoes, including some black history month variants. imo, his shoe line is the best from the Jordan line, and I'll continue to make that investment.

But overall, it's time to move on. Not because of hate, which is a word youngsters have no idea what they're talking about, but business and the overall health of the Knicks.

[JXL]

Everyone knew the Pacers series was difficult for us because most of our best either was injured (Sheed, Camby, Kurt), slumped (J.R, J-Kidd, Felton), or wasn't even used (Novak, Copeland). Melo virtually shouldered that team to even get to 2 wins.

Fast forward to next season, and everyone admitted mid-season that the trade for Bargnani was the lowest of the lows that the Knicks organization would do. Even when we were close to a playoff spot, no one thought we would make it, and even if we did, we would get our doors blown off by the Pacers. It was just a misconstructed team, and Melo did everything that he could to get this team to the playoffs.

Melo is loyal to this franchise for all of its faults, and vice versa, but its time to move on because of the treadmill he keeps putting us on. This organization needs a fresh start, and he needs to contend before he doesn't have that offensive skill anymore. Its for the best for him and his career, and its the best for this organization.

[Greenie]

As a well known Melo supporter I think it's two things. Fans now have KP whose the new guy and fans are fatigued. The Knicks stay being garbage. How can a mofo drop 25 in a single quarter and we still lose? We suck is how.

This is no different from the days when Melo would come out Blazing give a a nice lead and once he sat the lead disappeared. Anyone remember that Sacramento game that was 4 years ago. That's right, ain't **** change in 4 years but Melo's age.

Maybe fans see the light at the end of the tunnel with KP and want to accelerate that process. I see more bullsh*t ahead. It's a change though.

Ehh

[drekwins]

So basically you create a new thread that will likely lead to more arguing? The issue is some fans who love certain players more than the team they play for 9soome have admitted the became Knicks fans when Melo arrived) can't understand the critique of a player.

I see you cats, somebody could be in a game thread and say "bad shot melo", and here y'all come ready to defend when the player himself doesn't defend at all.

Secondly, calling out posters isn't gonna end well, especially if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Please understand I'm not trying to call out certain posters, those names were just some that I remembered from the top of my head whom don't like Melo so every one else is welcome to chime in but again please be serious**

Even though I know those others guys stand, I'm only gonna speak for myself. I don't hate Melo, never have, never will. I've likely been a fan of Melo longer than you've been born. Difference is.....I'm not jaded. I critique every player, including the ones I like.

Melo at this point is best suited as a third option of a ship team, second on a team trying to qualify for postseason play. Could be the best sixth man ever if he dropped his ego.

Up until he did his free agency thing and found out teams weren't that interested (Dallas offered no contract, Bulls didn't even try to make space, Melo totally goes against Morey's analytics), Melo had my overall support as a player, even though I knew he was falling out of his prime rather quickly and was a mistake to resign, especially with an NTC.

As a side note, that some are aware of...I don't support the player on the court as much primarily because my younger kids at the time have moved on in their fandom. They used to attend his basketball camp every year since he's been here, but they couldn't sign up for that year because it was postponed, so they went to Clyde's camp. From there my kids don't like Melo.

Now from a business standpoint I support Melo 100%, have met him personally and his family. For instance I own all of Melo's Jordan branded shoes, including some black history month variants. imo, his shoe line is the best from the Jordan line, and I'll continue to make that investment.

But overall, it's time to move on. Not because of hate, which is a word youngsters have no idea what they're talking about, but business and the overall health of the Knicks.

There were two points that you made that explain the disconnect between Knicks fans:

1) You root for the jersey more than any of the individual players.
2) Young fans seem to struggle with the concept of criticism. Criticism does not mean that you don't like a player. I love the Knicks but I'm going to be unbiased and objective. If we suck, if Melo sucks, I'd Phil sucks, etc., I'm going to call a spade a spade. We all hope that they improve and turn it around but we're not going to hold on to false hope either.

[AmazingJason]

It all started from the trade. That polarized the fanbase from the get-go, and saw the exile of one of this board's greatest posters in TKF. Keep in mind that Melo is not a homegrown player. He was a mercenary that we traded the entire farm for. I knew from the instant we traded for Melo that we were f*cked because he was a flawed player that was difficult to build around and that trade gave us zero margin for error to ever adequately do so. That wasn't Melo's fault, but the fault of Dolan and the front office. We should have held strong and hoped he signed with us in FA, or if he choose Brooklyn, then so be it. Acquiring him the way we did placed obscene expectations on his shoulders, and he was never going to be able to fulfill them.

In a way, Melo is the anti-LeBron. Not in terms of basketball, but the decisions he's made. Melo cared more about financial security than the legacy of winning (there's absolutely nothing with that). The Big 3 on the Heat was originally supposed to be LeBron-Wade-Melo, and he forgoed that with a long extension to stay in Denver. Then, when he was an FA, he chose us - a non-contender- for close to the max with a NTC, so he could stay here and build his brand with winning being nice, but secondary. Again, that's his prerogative; there's nothing wrong with financial security, but those are the choices he's made and he's completely fine with it.

[Nazrmohamed]

That was the funniest **** I've seen in a long time

[god shammgod]

oh good, another melo thread....also, nobody gonna read all that. i know i'm not.

[blueNorange]

i don't hate melo, i'm banned from the general forum because i've defended him.

this thing isn't working, he's old. it's time to go
in a new direction with the 21 year old.

[thebuzzardman]

I have an idea, all the Melo sucks/is god can go in this topic, and all the trade ideas and rumors in the other trade Melo topic.

Or, I'm afraid this discussion will start talking about Kyle, so in keeping with a new tradition of mine:

In before the KOQ

[MrProb]

So basically you create a new thread that will likely lead to more arguing? The issue is some fans who love certain players more than the team they play for (some have admitted the became Knicks fans when Melo arrived) can't understand the critique of a player.

I see you cats, somebody could be in a game thread and say "bad shot melo", and here y'all come ready to defend when the player himself doesn't defend at all.

Secondly, calling out posters isn't gonna end well, especially if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Please understand I'm not trying to call out certain posters, those names were just some that I remembered from the top of my head whom don't like Melo so every one else is welcome to chime in but again please be serious**

Even though I know those others guys stand, I'm only gonna speak for myself. I don't hate Melo, never have, never will. I've likely been a fan of Melo longer than you've been born. Difference is.....I'm not jaded. I critique every player, including the ones I like.

Melo at this point is best suited as a third option of a ship team, second on a team trying to qualify for postseason play. Could be the best sixth man ever if he dropped his ego.

Up until he did his free agency thing and found out teams weren't that interested (Dallas offered no contract, Bulls didn't even try to make space, Melo totally goes against Morey's analytics), Melo had my overall support as a player, even though I knew he was falling out of his prime rather quickly and was a mistake to resign, especially with an NTC.

As a side note, that some are aware of...I don't support the player on the court as much primarily because my younger kids at the time have moved on in their fandom. They used to attend his basketball camp every year since he's been here, but they couldn't sign up for that year because it was postponed, so they went to Clyde's camp. From there my kids don't like Melo.

Now from a business standpoint I support Melo 100%, have met him personally and his family. For instance I own all of Melo's Jordan branded shoes, including some black history month variants. imo, his shoe line is the best from the Jordan line, and I'll continue to make that investment.

But overall, it's time to move on. Not because of hate, which is a word youngsters have no idea what they're talking about, but business and the overall health of the Knicks.

Thanks for the answer, respect that the only thing I don't really agree with is that bold part.

[MrProb]

It all started from the trade. That polarized the fanbase from the get-go, and saw the exile of one of this board's greatest posters in TKF. Keep in mind that Melo is not a homegrown player. He was a mercenary that we traded the entire farm for. I knew from the instant we traded for Melo that we were f*cked because he was a flawed player that was difficult to build around and that trade gave us zero margin for error to ever adequately do so. That wasn't Melo's fault, but the fault of Dolan and the front office. We should have held strong and hoped he signed with us in FA, or if he choose Brooklyn, then so be it. Acquiring him the way we did placed obscene expectations on his shoulders, and he was never going to be able to fulfill them.

In a way, Melo is the anti-LeBron. Not in terms of basketball, but the decisions he's made. Melo cared more about financial security than the legacy of winning (there's absolutely nothing with that). The Big 3 on the Heat was originally supposed to be LeBron-Wade-Melo, and he forgoed that with a long extension to stay in Denver. Then, when he was an FA, he chose us - a non-contender- for close to the max with a NTC, so he could stay here and build his brand with winning being nice, but secondary. Again, that's his prerogative; there's nothing wrong with financial security, but those are the choices he's made and he's completely fine with it.

I respected that Jason but as much as the Knicks gave up for Melo, isn't he the only player ever produced ? who else could you say did the same by getting paid a lot of $.

Amare ? obviously not.
Tyson ? just a short span.
Lin and Cope was probably the best bang for your buck we ever had.
Novak too I guess but he was pretty much the product of a system/team he's a noone before and after becoming a Knicks.

[MrProb]

i don't hate melo, i'm banned from the general forum because i've defended him.

this thing isn't working, he's old. it's time to go
in a new direction with the 21 year old.

I can agree with you on that.

[MrProb]

So basically you create a new thread that will likely lead to more arguing? The issue is some fans who love certain players more than the team they play for 9soome have admitted the became Knicks fans when Melo arrived) can't understand the critique of a player.

I see you cats, somebody could be in a game thread and say "bad shot melo", and here y'all come ready to defend when the player himself doesn't defend at all.

Secondly, calling out posters isn't gonna end well, especially if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Please understand I'm not trying to call out certain posters, those names were just some that I remembered from the top of my head whom don't like Melo so every one else is welcome to chime in but again please be serious**

Even though I know those others guys stand, I'm only gonna speak for myself. I don't hate Melo, never have, never will. I've likely been a fan of Melo longer than you've been born. Difference is.....I'm not jaded. I critique every player, including the ones I like.

Melo at this point is best suited as a third option of a ship team, second on a team trying to qualify for postseason play. Could be the best sixth man ever if he dropped his ego.

Up until he did his free agency thing and found out teams weren't that interested (Dallas offered no contract, Bulls didn't even try to make space, Melo totally goes against Morey's analytics), Melo had my overall support as a player, even though I knew he was falling out of his prime rather quickly and was a mistake to resign, especially with an NTC.

As a side note, that some are aware of...I don't support the player on the court as much primarily because my younger kids at the time have moved on in their fandom. They used to attend his basketball camp every year since he's been here, but they couldn't sign up for that year because it was postponed, so they went to Clyde's camp. From there my kids don't like Melo.

Now from a business standpoint I support Melo 100%, have met him personally and his family. For instance I own all of Melo's Jordan branded shoes, including some black history month variants. imo, his shoe line is the best from the Jordan line, and I'll continue to make that investment.

But overall, it's time to move on. Not because of hate, which is a word youngsters have no idea what they're talking about, but business and the overall health of the Knicks.

There were two points that you made that explain the disconnect between Knicks fans:

1) You root for the jersey more than any of the individual players.
2) Young fans seem to struggle with the concept of criticism. Criticism does not mean that you don't like a player. I love the Knicks but I'm going to be unbiased and objective. If we suck, if Melo sucks, I'd Phil sucks, etc., I'm going to call a spade a spade. We all hope that they improve and turn it around but we're not going to hold on to false hope either.

1. for me I wasn't born American I really have no feelings towards any certain city, I started watching NBA since I was very young when I was still in Thailand, now I live in San Francisco I never want to be a fan of Warriors since I'm here. I'm always a fan of players.

2. Criticism does not mean you don't like player, I totally agree but unreasonable bash and blame on him is very unfair.

[kane2021]

His style of play has helped opposing defenses and hurts our own offensive continuity. Not just this year but in past years too.

I don't mind isolating a scorer. In fact I think it's a smart idea in the right spots. But when you make that your entire offense you create problems for your team.

Melo is a jump shooter. He isolates and takes his time to find his rhythm. He'll fake. Jab step jab step. One two dribble move step back pop. That's his timing mechanism. You can even say it in rhythm.

There are two things that happen. One no one of the offensive side of the ball knows what melo is going to do. Including melo himself. So everything kinda gets suspended.

The second thing it does is it puts the defense in the position it wants to be in. And that's stopping ball movement and forcing long jump shots.

A 20 foot plus, jump shot off the dribble is a low percentage shot. Granted melo hits those. But as a defense you'll take that all night. Just deny others, protect the paint, and be ready to rebound.

So the defense is saving energy. They're also keeping others from being involved for free. So if another player does get a pass, he's almost caught off guard. He has to THINK, rather than react. Because it's unusual. And you see this on the floor.

That's my opinion of how his presence hurts the team on the floor. I have opinions of how I think he could be hurting them off. But I'm not going to get into that. You talking ball so I'll keep it ball.

As far as not liking his game. I really not a fan of jump shooters. Unless they're strictly catch and shoot. Off screens and stuff. Melo more often than not is taking his time to pop off long jump shots.

I don't find him exciting or entertaining. Even when he used to drive to the basket. The first thing he does when he gets there is stop. And pump fake. He has no lift. So there's never exciting finishes to get pumped up about. I just find him boring to watch. With this steep decline he's taken its become cringe worthy for me.

I don't hate the dude. I just don't like his game and explained a little as to why.

I don't blame him solely for the knicks problems. However I do think he is contributing to them some. And explained why.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[3toheadmelo]

i don't hate melo, i'm banned from the general forum because i've defended him.

this thing isn't working, he's old. it's time to go
in a new direction with the 21 year old.

how do you say that but have that sig?

[Oscirus]

I think most people's problem with Melo is that we spent so much time building around him to get us to the promised land and we haven't had the results that we'd like. Is that all on Melo? No, it's not. Our front office has been a mess. But at the same time, he's not completely blameless either.

Since Phil's got here, drafting Porzingis was the first thing that Phil has done without Carmelo in mind ( He was supposed to be a three year project which definitely didn't line up with Melo's timeline). KP's sudden emergence has pretty much fed into the anger towards Melo, because even though it's not fair towards Melo, every bad, must win move that Phil makes is seen as a move towards more of the same and Melo has become the face of the futility of the Knicks. People want to move towards the future. This thought that fans won't live through a rebuild is nonsense. It's just that they don't want to rebuild for the sake of rebuilding. Now that we have a direction, I think that fans would be more patient.

Ultimately, Melo has to go because he's been contaminated by the previous regimes, also because, he's too much of a safety net for KP. As long as he's here, KP will be able to hide behind Melo and we won't know what the kid is truly capable of until it's too late.

I truly do appreciate everything that Melo's done for us. I'd even be willing to support his jersey being hung from the rafters. But at this point in his career, I think it's best for both him and the Knicks to part ways asap.

[MrProb]

I think most people's problem with Melo is that we spent so much time building around him to get us to the promised land and we haven't had the results that we'd like. Is that all on Melo? No, it's not. Our front office has been a mess. But at the same time, he's not completely blameless either.

Since Phil's got here, drafting Porzingis was the first thing that Phil has done without Carmelo in mind ( He was supposed to be a three year project which definitely didn't line up with Melo's timeline). KP's sudden emergence has pretty much fed into the anger towards Melo, because even though it's not fair towards Melo, every bad, must win move that Phil makes is seen as a move towards more of the same and Melo has become the face of the futility of the Knicks. People want to move towards the future. This thought that fans won't live through a rebuild is nonsense. It's just that they don't want to rebuild for the sake of rebuilding. Now that we have a direction, I think that fans would be more patient.

Ultimately, Melo has to go because he's been contaminated by the previous regimes, also because, he's too much of a safety net for KP. As long as he's here, KP will be able to hide behind Melo and we won't know what the kid is truly capable of until it's too late.

I truly do appreciate everything that Melo's done for us. I'd even be willing to support his jersey being hung from the rafters. But at this point in his career, I think it's best for both him and the Knicks to part ways asap.

Can you really say the Knicks built something around him though ? all I've seen were bad players after bad players that basically ended up being a reserve, out of the league or starting for a bottom feeder after they're off the Knicks.

But yes Melo is not blameless that is a fact that can't be denied

[MrProb]

His style of play has helped opposing defenses and hurts our own offensive continuity. Not just this year but in past years too.

I don't mind isolating a scorer. In fact I think it's a smart idea in the right spots. But when you make that your entire offense you create problems for your team.

Melo is a jump shooter. He isolates and takes his time to find his rhythm. He'll fake. Jab step jab step. One two dribble move step back pop. That's his timing mechanism. You can even say it in rhythm.

There are two things that happen. One no one of the offensive side of the ball knows what melo is going to do. Including melo himself. So everything kinda gets suspended.

The second thing it does is it puts the defense in the position it wants to be in. And that's stopping ball movement and forcing long jump shots.

A 20 foot plus, jump shot off the dribble is a low percentage shot. Granted melo hits those. But as a defense you'll take that all night. Just deny others, protect the paint, and be ready to rebound.

So the defense is saving energy. They're also keeping others from being involved for free. So if another player does get a pass, he's almost caught off guard. He has to THINK, rather than react. Because it's unusual. And you see this on the floor.

That's my opinion of how his presence hurts the team on the floor. I have opinions of how I think he could be hurting them off. But I'm not going to get into that. You talking ball so I'll keep it ball.

As far as not liking his game. I really not a fan of jump shooters. Unless they're strictly catch and shoot. Off screens and stuff. Melo more often than not is taking his time to pop off long jump shots.

I don't find him exciting or entertaining. Even when he used to drive to the basket. The first thing he does when he gets there is stop. And pump fake. He has no lift. So there's never exciting finishes to get pumped up about. I just find him boring to watch. With this steep decline he's taken its become cringe worthy for me.

I don't hate the dude. I just don't like his game and explained a little as to why.

I don't blame him solely for the knicks problems. However I do think he is contributing to them some. And explained why.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Can totally respect that, not every one is a fan of jump shooters.

But the answer I wanted is more of a "why do we put most blame on him when he's the only one that took us there or actually produced"

He took that team to 2nd round that is amazing to me.