2016-17 Season: disappointments/surprises

[NYKHardKnock]

Now that we have all of one game left of the season. Let's discuss this season, if it's even worth discussing.

Busts/Disappointments:
The Knicks in general. - I had them winning 50+ games and finishing top 3 in the east.

Derrick Rose. - After the trade I had him helping the Knicks significantly, little did we know Bulls fans were correct all along. His scoring ability is obviously still there, but everything else is nothing but subpar.

Joakim Noah - Joke Noah (nothing else to say here)

Carmelo Anthony - on the decline. And not being able to trade him. Dealing him probably would give us a top 5 pick.

Surprises:
Willy Hernangomez - what a stud this kid is. Has all star written all over him. If he can develop a mid range and a decent 3 point game, like Brook Lopez he'll be a top 5 center. We had no first round picks last season, he certainly makes up for that big time.

Justin Holliday - Didn't get that many chances but he makes for an nice backup role. Perfect 3 and D player.

Neutral:
Kristaps Porzingis - had a good season overall, his numbers increased. Needs to work on his shot to be more consistent and needs to get stronger. Obviously we're aware how good he can be.

Courtney Lee - what else can we say, he's an absolutele gem especially on a contender. He was the most consistent player all season.


Keepers: KP, Willy, Lee, Holliday

[Deeeez Knicks]

[NBA Fan 1234]

Watch on YouTube

[Thugger HBC]

Not disappointed since I wanted a rebuild. My only surprise isnt about the team itself, but the .001% that rep the Knicks.

Some of y'all have written KP off in only his second season. Thats really surprising.

[Fat]

disappointments - not getting higher pick

surprises - willy

[xNewYorkMadex]

Disappointments:

Melo-Had arguably his best all around season in 15-16. Career high in assist, defense was actually average to above average, Thought he would build on that with higher efficiency. Started off the year inconsistently, improved offensively in the middle of the season, fell off at the beginning of March but it doesnt even matter since we needed him to perform badly at that point for the tank. His defense really took a big step back though. His defense and efficiency from the floor are my biggest gripes with him.

Noah-I initially didnt mind signing Noah (although I did dislike the amount of $ and years we gave him from the jump), I knew he wouldnt be the strong defender that he was in Chicago. But I did expect more fire and a little bit more of an impact.

Rose-Rose inspired me to dig in deeper into advanced stats. Terrible playmaker and defender. 18-4-4 with a 48% FG wouldve easily fooled me in the past. Not anymore.

Surprises:
Willy-Had no expectations from him. Great at attacking the glass, obviously solid creating his shot in the paint. Have my doubts whether he can be an NBA starter, C's these days need to be more of a defensive force and know how how to guard the PnR. But either way I like what we have from him.

Justin-Bulls fans liked this kid, and I could see why. Solid backup all season long. Good defender and can space the floor. We should bring him back. I would actually like to see this kid possibly enter the starting lineup and see how he can handle it.

Neutral:
Lee-Overrated defender. Was looking at defensive stats from past years, and Lee was never this lockdown defender. He ranges from average to below average defensively. Definitely expected more of an impact on that end of the floor. Offensively he was solid, would like him to look for his shot a little more. Hes a serviceable backup at this stage of his career.

KP-I expected these type of stats. Had a strong start to the season, then struggled big time in the middle of the season. Needs to be more consistent as he matures. Liked that he improved his efficiency, but he did take a slight step back on the defensive end. Also needs to attack the boards more, see him too often just stare at the ball. Go after it. Also needs to learn how to use his body and stay out of foul trouble.

[robillionaire]

I pretty much agree with OP analysis, can't make final opinion until after the draft.

My expectations for the season was a playoff appearance and best case scenario to get out of the first round. Needless to say that didn't happen, but the silver lining is that instead of being stuck on the mediocrity treadmill, we should get a nice draft pick for having been outright terrible.

[Floozenheimen]

Disappointment

Melo: I expected him to decline, but it's happening faster than I thought. He has not been able to supplement his losses physically with things one would expect from a veteran, such as leadership, yielding others, defensive effort and overall play-style. He's just a sad version of his former self and it has no place on our team anymore.

Rose: I was really expecting a game changer here, considering we had Jose Freakin Calderon last year. Rose was worse overall than Calderon. For all the penetration he gave us on offense, he provided absolutely nothing else in every other aspect of the game. His defense was inexcusably bad. His vision was laughable, with the drive, jump then decide what to do with the ball nonsense. His poor shooting led to bad spacing, especially if he didn't have the ball in his hands. His off court distractions led him to starting the season slow, then he had a mental breakdown and had to go see his mother at one point. He's a bad basketball player. Glad we didn't Dolan it up and extend him for 4 years after a big game.

Front Office: I think we should have been aggressively seeking trade partners at the deadline for KOQ, Melo, Rose & Jennings. We easily could have gotten 1-2 more first rounders, which could have been flipped to get us another lottery pick this year. Instead, we sat on our hands. There's still some wiggle room at the draft to trade players, but the trade deadline is where you can push role players on teams desperate to make a playoff push.

KP: His defense and lack of off season training left much to be desired this year. I noticed he spent some time working on a cross over. Yay? He needs to hit the weight room hard this summer and get serious. Go to Hakeem's house and train with him this summer. Learn the necessary footwork to work down low. Strength, Stamina & post moves should be his entire focus IMO.

Jennings: Just bad. Shame we couldn't have gotten a 2nd rounder for him.

Noah: Good lord he's bad. His D is average. His offense is the worst I have ever seen from an NBA player. His only redeeming quality is he could serve as a player/coach for our rebuild going forward. An expensive one at that. SMH.


Surprises

Willy: This guy is more polished in the post than I ever could have expected. He is literally years ahead of the game in that category. He needs to learn proper defensive positioning and schemes to round out his game. Developing some range to his shot, though not necessary, would make him a damn all star. That can be accomplished with coaching, as he certainly appears to have to motor to put forth the effort. Dare I say he could be better overall player than KP in 2-3 years?

Cheese: He has a future as a role player. I like him in small doses, as he can't guard athletic wings, but he creates great spacing and knows the fundamentals of the game. Solid addition who I can definitely see as a part of our rotation going forward.

Ron Baker: He's a glue guy. He's all heart. He's a winner. He screams Dellavadova to me. A guy that hustles night in night out and will do anything under the sun to improve his game and contribute. He may never become starter material, but I think a player like him is crucial to the locker room and team's overall success. Great find by the team.

Overall Season Outcome: I'm very happy this experiment of Rose/Melo imploded. Had it panned out and we made it to the playoffs, we were certain to be booted early, only to re-up for another year or two before Rose/Melo were completely washed up, digging the hole deeper. Been there, done that, no thanks.

This was Melo's last chance to force our hand. Whether he stays or goes this summer, our direction forward is with KP/Willy/Draft and not Melo. This makes me very happy. We will have 3 studs under 23 in our starting lineup next year. And after another successful tank season, we're looking at 4 young players that will form our core for us to grow with. Something we have never done as a franchise. Aside from KP's regression on D, this season has turned out pretty damn fantastic.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Disappointments:
- None, at least with respect to the team we put together - literally expected everything that happened this year, from Rose being **** (yeah, I told everyone this would happen) to Noah getting hurt (another thing I told everyone would happen), to Holiday being a good 3/D guy who is great cutting (which was why I didn't want us to sign Lee...), to the team not blending with Melo + KP + Rose...I was right. I was hoping KP would take a step forward in his development, which he did so I'm not disappointed per se, but I was hoping it'd be more...but...again...saw this happening with Rose as our starting "point guard."
- Surprised we kept Plumlee and Ndour on the team year round, while we let guys like Quinn Cook, Gary Payton II, and others fall through the cracks.

Surprises:
- Kuz - I didn't expect much out of him. He is still a **** defender, but he moves damn well off the ball cutting.
- Phil still thinks he's being sly using Rosen as a mouthpiece and using Twitter to subtweet the **** out of Melo.
- Surprised we didn't end up trading at least one of Lee or KOQ.

General thoughts:
- I wonder when people will start realizing I'm right WAYYYYYYY more often than I'm wrong.
- Knew Melo wouldn't be traded, because, as I said multiple times, he didn't want to leave, teams didn't want him, and it's much easier to put a high USG player into an offense in the offseason than it is during the regular season.
- We should have done nothing this past offseason, kept RoLo and Jose, and simply tanked from the beginning. But no...of course that couldn't happen.

[poeman]

Start of the season:



End of the season:

[NBA Fan 1234]

Disappointments:

Melo-Had arguably his best all around season in 15-16. Career high in assist, defense was actually average to above average, Thought he would build on that with higher efficiency. Started off the year inconsistently, improved offensively in the middle of the season, fell off at the beginning of March but it doesnt even matter since we needed him to perform badly at that point for the tank. His defense really took a big step back though. His defense and efficiency from the floor are my biggest gripes with him.

Noah-I initially didnt mind signing Noah (although I did dislike the amount of $ and years we gave him from the jump), I knew he wouldnt be the strong defender that he was in Chicago. But I did expect more fire and a little bit more of an impact.

Rose-Rose inspired me to dig in deeper into advanced stats. Terrible playmaker and defender. 18-4-4 with a 48% FG wouldve easily fooled me in the past. Not anymore.

Surprises:
Willy-Had no expectations from him. Great at attacking the glass, obviously solid creating his shot in the paint. Have my doubts whether he can be an NBA starter, C's these days need to be more of a defensive force and know how how to guard the PnR. But either way I like what we have from him.

Justin-Bulls fans liked this kid, and I could see why. Solid backup all season long. Good defender and can space the floor. We should bring him back. I would actually like to see this kid possibly enter the starting lineup and see how he can handle it.

Neutral:
Lee-Overrated defender. Was looking at defensive stats from past years, and Lee was never this lockdown defender. He ranges from average to below average defensively. Definitely expected more of an impact on that end of the floor. Offensively he was solid, would like him to look for his shot a little more. Hes a serviceable backup at this stage of his career.

KP-I expected these type of stats. Had a strong start to the season, then struggled big time in the middle of the season. Needs to be more consistent as he matures. Liked that he improved his efficiency, but he did take a slight step back on the defensive end. Also needs to attack the boards more, see him too often just stare at the ball. Go after it. Also needs to learn how to use his body and stay out of foul trouble.

Re: Rose and advanced stats. One piece of advice, which I'm sure you already know - they aren't the be all, end all. Be sure to use it in conjunction with the eye test and player tracking statistics (which can also be misleading if used incorrectly).

[knickstape21]

Disappointment - Just the way they fell off again. We were playing pretty well and then boom...Knicks mayhem happened.

Surprises - Definitely Hernangomez and the fact that we have the 6th overall pick at the moment. Hernangomez struggled in Olympic ball. Showed some flashes of the summer, but just to sum up, he got a lot better in less than a year. A lot better. Great sign moving forward.

Off topic - Know it alls are the worst.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Off topic - Know it alls are the worst.

Sorry for ruining everyone's fun.

[br7knicks]

I wasn't disappointed with the knicks, I had them winning less than 30 games.

I was disappointed the knicks couldn't unload Melo for a younger player or pick.

Kuz and willy were nice surprises. I hope they stick around.

I liked holiday and lee.

I was hoping to see more consistency out of porzingis

[captvict]

Surprises
Willy. Didn't think he had the mobility. I was wrong

Baker. Didn't think he could run an offense. I was wrong

Disappointments

KP. Regressed a bit

Melo. Really thought he would change. I was wrong

[dakomish23]

Surprises

- WHG contributing right away. His passing and rebounding are a much welcome sight
- Holiday showing he should be a rotation player. Thought he'd be better suited as the 5th wing who can slide between the 2/3 slots.
- Baker's defense
- Melo able to score at the rate he was in the middle of the season
- KP showing how good he could be facing up or off the ball screens

Disappointments

- DRose unable or unwilling to be an adequate playmaker for others
- Jennings wanting a buyout after all this talk of him dying to be here
- Noah unable to even give anything in the 1 year you could hope he would
- Melo not building upon his best all around year
- lee disappearing in way too many games offensively and not being as lock down a defender as I hoped
- KP unable to post up anybody who wasn't a big man
- Kuz defense
- Baker shooting
- LFT impact
- KOQ still up and down from game to game

[battabing10]

disappointments:
1) rose huge mistake but all in order to accommodate
2) melo and his effing window who is overrated as hell and should never been given a ntc by
3) dolan who is still breaking his toy like any spoiled brat

hopefuls:
1)very happy with whg and baker who i hope stick around because they are ballers who will get better
2)lee is pretty good in flashes but don't make anybody better. he play badly with rose nd melo, much better without them two cramping his game. he especially can't be out there with selfish players.

neutrals:
1)kuzminskas
2)o'quinn
3)holiday

biggest question marks:
1) porzingis is the closest thing to a franchise player and so much is riding on him blossoming next season, with or without melo and for sure with no rose clogging things up. the keys are footwork, balance, patience in shot creation, unselfishness. i have ?? but believe
2) whoever we draft
3) hornacek will he commit to the triangle

[BKlutch]

Disappointment:
Noah. I thought he could play.

Neutral:
DRose - I thought he would fall apart by mid season. I was impressed with his ability to drive on the hoop, and really disappointed by his inability to run the offense or pass to an open man. His knee injury seems minor, so he did hold up mostly.
KP - I thought he'd get a little bit better, and he did. For this year, that's fine. But he has to keep on improving or he will disappoint.
Just Holla - shows some flashes of being good and some flashes of being only adequate. I'm neutral because he's not a rookie who should get better every year, but I still like the way he plays.

Surprises:
1. Billy is more than a second string center. He could be an actually good center. Scoring a double double against good teams for quite a few games lately is very much more than I anticipated. His defense is beginning to improve. His attitude is great, and his contract is the anti-Noah. Could be the best contract in the NBA.
2. Baker - he can run a team and might be a good point guard off the bench. He will need to improve his 3 point shooting, but I loved seeing him dunk on the break today.
3. Courtney Lee is a great value
4. What about KOQ? Nobody mentioned he has a great contract and has become a good backup 5 since losing weight last summer. He's a new man -- not good enough to start, but how many teams have a guy who's as good at the 5 off the bench? If Noah and Plumbum are backup-ready at the 5, we could trade him for something useful. But that's a big "If".
5. Jose Calderon - it has been a delight not seeing him in a Knicks uniform every game. So good! I love it.

Weird:
1. Sasha is still hanging around
2. Chasson Randle doesn't seem to have caught on, but we tried hard to sign him, and he may be better next year.
3. Plumbum (the chemical name for lead) is still on the team one night out of 3. The other two he's in the D league. ⅓ NBA is more than I thought he'd be. I'm always shocked when he can run the length of the floor so easily. If only he could play offense or defense.
4. NDour is showing signs of contributing now that he's getting minutes in the garbage part of our season. Before that, he seemed to be a poor man's Derrick Williams, which is not saying much. So is he good enough to return?
5. Lance Thomas was injured and played like shyt. Then he was healthy and played surprisingly well. Then he was injured again.
6. Brandon I forgot his name Jennings - I forgot him already. Did he do something good or bad for us? I don't think so.
7. Melo - a class act who is able to give a lot to a team that needs his kind of scorer. Sadly, he won't win anything here in NY and he won't help our long range goals. Still an excellent scorer, and I love to see him go somewhere that he's happy and has a chance to win.
8 The Knicks - I thought they'd win more, and I thought that when we had a winning record in the first quarter of the season. Then all the reasons for not winning took over. That triangle - was it in or out? Was Jeff really D'Antoni lite, or is he a three sided guy who has at times shown us one or another of those 3 sides? Does he talk with Rambis? Does either teach D? Where is Abby Hornacek - why don't we see her more? And is Phil a crazy Zen genius we just don't understand, or a doddering old phool?

RealGM:
What happened to CJackson? KnicksMentality?
Did one of our guys, er, members really get self-banned and then resurrected?
Did we argue politics and everybody was wrong?
If Putin controls Trump, will he make Prokhorov replace Silver while he's still owner of the Nyets?
Did Wingo and I really get another year closer to being hung on the wall like they do with retired NBA greats, except we'll be on the wall in some downtown Models?
Will the Mods be able to continue their work despite the kind of craziness where we divide into opposing groups that can't learn to agree on anything, just like the Senate and House?

Will our last game thread break the record for shortest, or was that the last game?
After all the pessimism, will we all come back next season to argue and cuss because we once again think our Knicks mean something?

And the Number One Question: Do the basketball deities want to see millions of fans in NY delighted with their pick, or will we spend another summer of angst like we did 2 years ago when we drafted the only guy guaranteed to make grown men and kids cry? (at least until we saw him play) And can we have a sleeper like Billy, who is way better than what we thought we got?

[AmazingJason]

I was going to put down Jonathan Isaac under my list of disappointments, but I realized the thread title said 2016-17 and not 2017-18

[Jalen Bluntson]

I cautiously(and foolishly) overly optimistic about this team. I was hoping for best case scenario but, knew worst case was possible if not inevitable.

Most of the bench guys played the way I expected. Want more defensively from Kuz but, I like him off the bench. Want to see better range from Baker but, I love this kid as a bench guard as well. Billy was by far the best of the bunch. Needs to improve defensively but, great offensive game and a great rebounder. Holiday also played really well. N'dour and Plumlee? Whatever.

Jennings blows. Rose blows. Melo needs to go. Lee needs to go. Sasha will be back! LOL KILL ME NOW!