OT: NFL 23-24 Season thread 2

[Deeeez Knicks]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

[DOT]

Any WRs with Rd 2 grades that catch your attention?

It depends on what you're looking for

Now, I'll preface by saying I haven't done a ton of film watching, but from what I have seen, there's a good amount of WR talent

Like, I think initially I overrated Quentin Johnston last year because he was the only real big, tall, fast WR worth a 1st round pick, pretty much all the other guys were smaller guys who were more slot archetypes. It's sort of the opposite this year, most of the top guys are all big and fast

I've mostly been looking at those guys, cause I think the area where the Jags are good at is slot types, like Kirk obviously but also Engram operates for us in that same area and I'm really high on Parker Washington who is much the same as Kirk

I think any intriguing list has to start with Johnny Wilson, just cause you never see 6'7 receivers. He just looks different out there, like I don't know if he'll translate it to the NFL, but it's hard to not see the appeal. The big concern for me with him is he isn't a contested catch guy, like he's just okay at it, but he really should be elite at that size

It's also not hard to think about Brenden Rice because of his dad, like he's not on the same level as MHJ but you can absolutely tell he's been coached from a young age. You can see him win by knowing where to go and making little adjustments, so he should be good but I don't know about great. The top WRs aren't always the freakiest athletes though

I'd put Adonai Mitchell, Xavier Legette, and Keon Coleman all into the category of tools but raw, so like, the opposite of Rice. You get a good staff around them and play to their strengths, you can develop something, but they're definitely boom or bust

I hear Jermaine Burton has 1st round talent, but off field questions which may be severe enough to remove him from boards completely

Other than that, there's still a ton of quality guys, like I said I just haven't had time to really dig in yet lol

[TerrenceClarke]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

Nabers.

That LSU receiver Pedigree is real.

Its like the Kentucky Guard Pedigree in BBall.

[mpharris36]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

I heard a lot of rumors that Minny really wants Drake Maye...Josh McCown there new QB coach use to coach drake maye in high school. Seems like a lot of connections there.

[DOT]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

I heard a lot of rumors that Minny really wants Drake Maye...Josh McCown there new QB coach use to coach drake maye in high school. Seems like a lot of connections there.

It's probably just me not being a huge McCarthy guy, but I can't see a team trading up to get him

Like, he's just not that level of prospect. Maye at least you can sell me on his traits, that he has the physical tools to be an elite QB

But I think they're one of the better situations for a QB in that they have a good line and great weapons. So whoever they get should have a higher chance of success than most rookie QBs.

[mpharris36]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

I heard a lot of rumors that Minny really wants Drake Maye...Josh McCown there new QB coach use to coach drake maye in high school. Seems like a lot of connections there.

It's probably just me not being a huge McCarthy guy, but I can't see a team trading up to get him

Like, he's just not that level of prospect. Maye at least you can sell me on his traits, that he has the physical tools to be an elite QB

But I think they're one of the better situations for a QB in that they have a good line and great weapons. So whoever they get should have a higher chance of success than most rookie QBs.

I certainly am not a QB whisperer...in terms of evaluating these guys. I think my best call recently was when a lot of people were on Josh Rosen and I wanted not part of him because he didn't love football...can't trust a guy that doesn't love the sport he's playing they have to be all in.

But JJ certainly has some traits that make him a safer prospect than someone like Maye. Maye certainly has more wow plays and arm strength and more prototypical size you want for the position.

But JJ from all accounts is more accurate, better at reading coverages, and while a lot is because he played with better players but he also is a winner/leader...I know tough to quantify that but its still a valuable trait to have.

Maye certainly is much better with a cleaner pocket...but there is something to a QB playing well against pressure. And JJM certainly could entice a team to buy in...all its takes for one or two teams to fall in love.

[Deeeez Knicks]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

I heard a lot of rumors that Minny really wants Drake Maye...Josh McCown there new QB coach use to coach drake maye in high school. Seems like a lot of connections there.

I think it’ll be a lot tougher to get into the top 3 especially with all those teams wanting QBs. #5 might be more obtainable for them to jump in front of the giants and other teams. Unless NE or Wash is ok with moving back to #5 and it’s a multi team deal.

[mpharris36]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

I heard a lot of rumors that Minny really wants Drake Maye...Josh McCown there new QB coach use to coach drake maye in high school. Seems like a lot of connections there.

I think it’ll be a lot tougher to get into the top 3 especially with all those teams wanting QBs. #5 might be more obtainable for them to jump in front of the giants and other teams. Unless NE or Wash is ok with moving back to #5 and it’s a multi team deal.

yeah if I'm putting 2 and 2 together.

Bears - Caleb Williams is a lock
Commanders - Most have them zeroing in on Jayden Daniels

Pats - Wanted Daniels bad and now you are hearing trade out rumors because they aren't high on Maye which is interesting its coming at similar time a lot of new sources have Daniels pegged to Commanders at #2 and pats knowing he wont be there at #3.

Wild card is trade up but how many teams want to drop completely out of the top 10 for Minny to move up unless they send a godfather offer like #11, #23 in this draft and there future 2025 1st round pick might be too much to pass up.

Giants...clearly have been scouting QB heavily...they could just sit at #6 and see if any of the 4 qb's are on the board...or they can just pick the best WR on the board....or they could even consider trading down (which I don't find likely but if they really want a QB and 4 of them go into the top 5...and they think they can get talented WR's later then maybe that is an option as well.

[DOT]

But JJ from all accounts is more accurate, better at reading coverages, and while a lot is because he played with better players but he also is a winner/leader...I know tough to quantify that but its still a valuable trait to have.

This is just one guy's opinion, but not by all accounts is JJ more accurate or better at reading coverages

Watch on YouTube

If he's gonna succeed, it's like you say the dude is tough, he sticks it out under pressure, and because he throws over the middle. Put him in a Shanahan offense and he'll be fine

He just seems kinda mid to me. Like, I can see him being good, but I don't see a super high ceiling on him. And while that's fine if we're talking about a team in the middle to back end of the 1st, I wouldn't spend a top 10 pick on the guy or trade up to get him unless I was confident I had a great team to help him along.

[mpharris36]

But JJ from all accounts is more accurate, better at reading coverages, and while a lot is because he played with better players but he also is a winner/leader...I know tough to quantify that but its still a valuable trait to have.

This is just one guy's opinion, but not by all accounts is JJ more accurate or better at reading coverages

Watch on YouTube

If he's gonna succeed, it's like you say the dude is tough, he sticks it out under pressure, and because he throws over the middle. Put him in a Shanahan offense and he'll be fine

He just seems kinda mid to me. Like, I can see him being good, but I don't see a super high ceiling on him. And while that's fine if we're talking about a team in the middle to back end of the 1st, I wouldn't spend a top 10 pick on the guy or trade up to get him unless I was confident I had a great team to help him along.

ok I shouldn't have said all accounts...he does seem to be polarizing since a lot of people are high on his accuracy, ability to stand in pocket, and make throws into tight spots. He is also much younger than a lot of the QB's coming out so in terms of molding someone that could be interesting because he doesn't have the years under center that some of these other guys do.

At the end of the day I'm not paid to make these decisions...if Schoen and Daboll think he can be really good go get him. Thats all I gotta trust at this point. My brother in law went to michigan and said the kid just knows how to win...I don't know how to value that but certainly Eli Manning wasn't the best QB when he was playing but especially when the moments got bigger you just trusted him...I value that a lot even more than just raw physical talent.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I heard a lot of rumors that Minny really wants Drake Maye...Josh McCown there new QB coach use to coach drake maye in high school. Seems like a lot of connections there.

I think it’ll be a lot tougher to get into the top 3 especially with all those teams wanting QBs. #5 might be more obtainable for them to jump in front of the giants and other teams. Unless NE or Wash is ok with moving back to #5 and it’s a multi team deal.

yeah if I'm putting 2 and 2 together.

Bears - Caleb Williams is a lock
Commanders - Most have them zeroing in on Jayden Daniels

Pats - Wanted Daniels bad and now you are hearing trade out rumors because they aren't high on Maye which is interesting its coming at similar time a lot of new sources have Daniels pegged to Commanders at #2 and pats knowing he wont be there at #3.

Wild card is trade up but how many teams want to drop completely out of the top 10 for Minny to move up unless they send a godfather offer like #11, #23 in this draft and there future 2025 1st round pick might be too much to pass up.

Giants...clearly have been scouting QB heavily...they could just sit at #6 and see if any of the 4 qb's are on the board...or they can just pick the best WR on the board....or they could even consider trading down (which I don't find likely but if they really want a QB and 4 of them go into the top 5...and they think they can get talented WR's later then maybe that is an option as well.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I was hearing some JJ to Minn rumors. Pats are real desperate for a QB too so hard to see them leaving the draft without one of the top QBs. The Chargers might be the most likely to trade down out of the top 5 teams, especially with Minn being desperate, and if the giants want JJ they would have to trade up a spot. But yea, a lot of guessing and trying to read between the lines.

[DOT]

My brother in law went to michigan and said the kid just knows how to win...I don't know how to value that but certainly Eli Manning wasn't the best QB when he was playing but especially when the moments got bigger you just trusted him...I value that a lot even more than just raw physical talent.

That's one of those euphemisms where like, if that's the first thing you say about a guy, it kinda signals to me that he ain't really that good

I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of it is my gut instinct against yours. Like, I watch the kid and I just see mid written all over him. I don't really have much to back that up, it's just what I see

The biggest positive is he's very young and I don't see a major deficiency in his game, I just don't see a major strength either. I just feel like all that intangibles talk is much the same as guys like Kenny Pickett and Mac Jones who yes, were older than McCarthy, but still.

[mpharris36]

I think it’ll be a lot tougher to get into the top 3 especially with all those teams wanting QBs. #5 might be more obtainable for them to jump in front of the giants and other teams. Unless NE or Wash is ok with moving back to #5 and it’s a multi team deal.

yeah if I'm putting 2 and 2 together.

Bears - Caleb Williams is a lock
Commanders - Most have them zeroing in on Jayden Daniels

Pats - Wanted Daniels bad and now you are hearing trade out rumors because they aren't high on Maye which is interesting its coming at similar time a lot of new sources have Daniels pegged to Commanders at #2 and pats knowing he wont be there at #3.

Wild card is trade up but how many teams want to drop completely out of the top 10 for Minny to move up unless they send a godfather offer like #11, #23 in this draft and there future 2025 1st round pick might be too much to pass up.

Giants...clearly have been scouting QB heavily...they could just sit at #6 and see if any of the 4 qb's are on the board...or they can just pick the best WR on the board....or they could even consider trading down (which I don't find likely but if they really want a QB and 4 of them go into the top 5...and they think they can get talented WR's later then maybe that is an option as well.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I was hearing some JJ to Minn rumors. Pats are real desperate for a QB too so hard to see them leaving the draft without one of the top QBs. The Chargers might be the most likely to trade down out of the top 5 teams, especially with Minn being desperate, and if the giants want JJ they would have to trade up a spot. But yea, a lot of guessing and trying to read between the lines.

there were rumors that the Pats if they didn't get Daniels like Bo Nix...so that is why they were potentially considering trading out.

[mpharris36]

My brother in law went to michigan and said the kid just knows how to win...I don't know how to value that but certainly Eli Manning wasn't the best QB when he was playing but especially when the moments got bigger you just trusted him...I value that a lot even more than just raw physical talent.

That's one of those euphemisms where like, if that's the first thing you say about a guy, it kinda signals to me that he ain't really that good

I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of it is my gut instinct against yours. Like, I watch the kid and I just see mid written all over him. I don't really have much to back that up, it's just what I see

The biggest positive is he's very young and I don't see a major deficiency in his game, I just don't see a major strength either. I just feel like all that intangibles talk is much the same as guys like Kenny Pickett and Mac Jones who yes, were older than McCarthy, but still.

I went to Pitt...now I didn't go when Kenny Pickett was there (im older) but I never saw it with him...not a really strong arm...it was just a weak QB class and people always try to find some QB's every year that will be good even if they aren't. Pickett wasn't even a draftable QB until his 5th year senior season...his numbers were pedestrian up until that time.

Mac Jones I guess people thought he was a leader but always came across a bit corny...JJM seems to have some swag to his game which is nice. He is also a really sneaky good athlete which Mac Jones could never.

Another thing JJM has going for him...played under harbough who is tough on his QB's and played in an NFL system...a lot of college football is a bit gimmicky

Read on Twitter

[GONYK]

My brother in law went to michigan and said the kid just knows how to win...I don't know how to value that but certainly Eli Manning wasn't the best QB when he was playing but especially when the moments got bigger you just trusted him...I value that a lot even more than just raw physical talent.

That's one of those euphemisms where like, if that's the first thing you say about a guy, it kinda signals to me that he ain't really that good

I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of it is my gut instinct against yours. Like, I watch the kid and I just see mid written all over him. I don't really have much to back that up, it's just what I see

The biggest positive is he's very young and I don't see a major deficiency in his game, I just don't see a major strength either. I just feel like all that intangibles talk is much the same as guys like Kenny Pickett and Mac Jones who yes, were older than McCarthy, but still.

I went to Pitt...now I didn't go when Kenny Pickett was there (im older) but I never saw it with him...not a really strong arm...it was just a weak QB class and people always try to find some QB's every year that will be good even if they aren't. Pickett wasn't even a draftable QB until his 5th year senior season...his numbers were pedestrian up until that time.

Mac Jones I guess people thought he was a leader but always came across a bit corny...JJM seems to have some swag to his game which is nice. He is also a really sneaky good athlete which Mac Jones could never.

Another thing JJM has going for him...played under harbough who is tough on his QB's and played in an NFL system...a lot of college football is a bit gimmicky

Read on Twitter

Harbaugh being a former QB, who is tough on QBs and who plays an NFL system is what worries me the most about JJM.

Harbaugh made the decision that the best way to win a championship is to keep the ball out of JJ's hands as much as possible.

His profile is very similar to Jones', IMO

[MrDollarBills]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

I think that Odunze is the guy. We already have Hyatt as our field stretcher and Robinson as the slot dirty work receiver. Give me someone that can be physical and win those jump balls in the endzone.

We need our new Plax/Nicks WR.

[MrDollarBills]

Any WRs with Rd 2 grades that catch your attention?

It depends on what you're looking for

Now, I'll preface by saying I haven't done a ton of film watching, but from what I have seen, there's a good amount of WR talent

Like, I think initially I overrated Quentin Johnston last year because he was the only real big, tall, fast WR worth a 1st round pick, pretty much all the other guys were smaller guys who were more slot archetypes. It's sort of the opposite this year, most of the top guys are all big and fast

I've mostly been looking at those guys, cause I think the area where the Jags are good at is slot types, like Kirk obviously but also Engram operates for us in that same area and I'm really high on Parker Washington who is much the same as Kirk

I think any intriguing list has to start with Johnny Wilson, just cause you never see 6'7 receivers. He just looks different out there, like I don't know if he'll translate it to the NFL, but it's hard to not see the appeal. The big concern for me with him is he isn't a contested catch guy, like he's just okay at it, but he really should be elite at that size

It's also not hard to think about Brenden Rice because of his dad, like he's not on the same level as MHJ but you can absolutely tell he's been coached from a young age. You can see him win by knowing where to go and making little adjustments, so he should be good but I don't know about great. The top WRs aren't always the freakiest athletes though

I'd put Adonai Mitchell, Xavier Legette, and Keon Coleman all into the category of tools but raw, so like, the opposite of Rice. You get a good staff around them and play to their strengths, you can develop something, but they're definitely boom or bust

I hear Jermaine Burton has 1st round talent, but off field questions which may be severe enough to remove him from boards completely

Other than that, there's still a ton of quality guys, like I said I just haven't had time to really dig in yet lol

Nice. Gonna do some tape watching.

Jermaine Burton...didn't he fight a woman after a game or something? Christ

[MrDollarBills]

That's one of those euphemisms where like, if that's the first thing you say about a guy, it kinda signals to me that he ain't really that good

I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of it is my gut instinct against yours. Like, I watch the kid and I just see mid written all over him. I don't really have much to back that up, it's just what I see

The biggest positive is he's very young and I don't see a major deficiency in his game, I just don't see a major strength either. I just feel like all that intangibles talk is much the same as guys like Kenny Pickett and Mac Jones who yes, were older than McCarthy, but still.

I went to Pitt...now I didn't go when Kenny Pickett was there (im older) but I never saw it with him...not a really strong arm...it was just a weak QB class and people always try to find some QB's every year that will be good even if they aren't. Pickett wasn't even a draftable QB until his 5th year senior season...his numbers were pedestrian up until that time.

Mac Jones I guess people thought he was a leader but always came across a bit corny...JJM seems to have some swag to his game which is nice. He is also a really sneaky good athlete which Mac Jones could never.

Another thing JJM has going for him...played under harbough who is tough on his QB's and played in an NFL system...a lot of college football is a bit gimmicky

Read on Twitter

Harbaugh being a former QB, who is tough on QBs and who plays an NFL system is what worries me the most about JJM.

Harbaugh made the decision that the best way to win a championship is to keep the ball out of JJ's hands as much as possible.

His profile is very similar to Jones', IMO

Oh hell no

[mpharris36]

That's one of those euphemisms where like, if that's the first thing you say about a guy, it kinda signals to me that he ain't really that good

I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of it is my gut instinct against yours. Like, I watch the kid and I just see mid written all over him. I don't really have much to back that up, it's just what I see

The biggest positive is he's very young and I don't see a major deficiency in his game, I just don't see a major strength either. I just feel like all that intangibles talk is much the same as guys like Kenny Pickett and Mac Jones who yes, were older than McCarthy, but still.

I went to Pitt...now I didn't go when Kenny Pickett was there (im older) but I never saw it with him...not a really strong arm...it was just a weak QB class and people always try to find some QB's every year that will be good even if they aren't. Pickett wasn't even a draftable QB until his 5th year senior season...his numbers were pedestrian up until that time.

Mac Jones I guess people thought he was a leader but always came across a bit corny...JJM seems to have some swag to his game which is nice. He is also a really sneaky good athlete which Mac Jones could never.

Another thing JJM has going for him...played under harbough who is tough on his QB's and played in an NFL system...a lot of college football is a bit gimmicky

Read on Twitter

Harbaugh being a former QB, who is tough on QBs and who plays an NFL system is what worries me the most about JJM.

Harbaugh made the decision that the best way to win a championship is to keep the ball out of JJ's hands as much as possible.

His profile is very similar to Jones', IMO

The one main difference I see and the stats seem to check this out is he is far better under pressure. Which I don't think is something to glance over. McCarthy under pressure stats are very positive.

Also Michigan won a championship yes they played through the run game more...but they won so it was the right decision...I think Michigan let it loose when they needed too. Its not an easy evaluation thats for sure...but Harbaugh was super complimentary of JJM he hasn't always been that was for all the the guys he coached.

[Deeeez Knicks]

A lot of smoke screens going around. But really seems like Minn will go in on trading up for JJ

Odunze vs Nabers…who you guys like better?

I think that Odunze is the guy. We already have Hyatt as our field stretcher and Robinson as the slot dirty work receiver. Give me someone that can be physical and win those jump balls in the endzone.

We need our new Plax/Nicks WR.

Odunze and Nabers both look like studs to me. I go back and forth but might go back to Nabers.

Feels like a great opportunity to get a legit top wr so think that’s where I would lean with one of those guys