OT: NFL 23-24 Season thread 2

[TerrenceClarke]

sounds like there are starting to be some smoke around the Giants trading up to potential 3 for Drake Maye.

Could be a 3 team trade (Giants, Pats, and Cardinals involved) to basically box out Minnesota from trading up for a QB.

Sounds like:

Giants target is Drake Maye
Pats like JJM but ideally want to trade down and still pick him (without fear a team will trade back up in front of them)
Cardinals want one of the top WR (but don't mind getting a package to move down but don't want to go past 6)

Basically Giants move from 6 to 3
Pats move from 3 to 4 (with the agreement that Giants wont pick JJM)
Cardinals move from 4 to 6 knowing all the 4 QB's are going in the top 4 and they will be left with a WR the covet.

Not saying this is def happening but seems like there is smoke behind this and it does make sense for all parties assuming they get what they want. This is based on two things...do the Pats prefer JJM to Maye. And the Cardinals don't want to trade down too far to like 11 to Minnesota because they won't be able to get any of the 3 top WRs.

ACC QBs are usally Buns in the NFL. Smh

I am no QB guru...at this point with all the evaluations and extension research they have done you just have to hope that two of the main guys part of the Josh Allen process hopefully can make the right call on our future QB.

At this point its all we can hope for.

Maye has a lot of physical gifts...he is young and probably needs to sit for a year but so did a Jordan Love...can't deny his arm talent, size, and athleticism...and most say he's the best pocket passer in the class but there are holes but no prospect is perfect.

At this point we just hope they know what they are doing...and if they don't they will be out of a job soon enough.

Read on Twitter

in the last 24 years they had about 5 QBs that were good i think with the last being TL. One of the worst conferences for QB play overall.

I guess Im jaded from Basketball with UNC, but saying your QB is from UNC just doesn't sit right

[mpharris36]

ACC QBs are usally Buns in the NFL. Smh

I am no QB guru...at this point with all the evaluations and extension research they have done you just have to hope that two of the main guys part of the Josh Allen process hopefully can make the right call on our future QB.

At this point its all we can hope for.

Maye has a lot of physical gifts...he is young and probably needs to sit for a year but so did a Jordan Love...can't deny his arm talent, size, and athleticism...and most say he's the best pocket passer in the class but there are holes but no prospect is perfect.

At this point we just hope they know what they are doing...and if they don't they will be out of a job soon enough.

Read on Twitter

in the last 24 years they had about 5 QBs that were good i think with the last being TL. One of the worst conferences for QB play overall.

I guess Im jaded from Basketball with UNC, but saying your QB is from UNC just doesn't sit right

Thats fair and certainly understandable to have a recency bias especially at schools. But I think you have to look beyond that because I kinda always thought that with Ohio State QB's...and then imagine passing on CJ Stroud because of that?

He's def the most boom/bust QB from the top 4 from what I hear...but I also can't blame the Giants for having conviction and trying to find there QB of the future. And he would be in a situation he wouldn't have to play right away which should benefit him.

[MrDollarBills]

Uh, what is going on with Darren Waller?

Read on Twitter

I hope dude is alright, football aside something is definitely up with him and knowing his history I hope it isn't what I think it is.

[KOA]

Just say no to Drake.
Dude has regressed even when his team finally developed a run game.

[GONYK]

Dan Graziano of ESPN reported the Giants' favorite quarterback in the 2024 class is North Carolina's Drake Maye, but they could target Washington's Michael Penix Jr. if they're unable to land Maye—perhaps as high as No. 6 overall.

Reports the Giants favor Michigan's J.J. McCarthy, by contrast, are reportedly no longer true.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10118305-nfl-rumors-giants-may-draft-michael-penix-jr-at-6-amid-drake-maye-mccarthy-buzz

Uhh...I sincerely doubt we'd take Penix at 6. That screams trade down.

[moocow007]

Dan Graziano of ESPN reported the Giants' favorite quarterback in the 2024 class is North Carolina's Drake Maye, but they could target Washington's Michael Penix Jr. if they're unable to land Maye—perhaps as high as No. 6 overall.

Reports the Giants favor Michigan's J.J. McCarthy, by contrast, are reportedly no longer true.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10118305-nfl-rumors-giants-may-draft-michael-penix-jr-at-6-amid-drake-maye-mccarthy-buzz

Uhh...I sincerely doubt we'd take Penix at 6. That screams trade down.

Giants interested now that the Patriots are rumored to have Penix high up on their list at QB?

[mpharris36]

Dan Graziano of ESPN reported the Giants' favorite quarterback in the 2024 class is North Carolina's Drake Maye, but they could target Washington's Michael Penix Jr. if they're unable to land Maye—perhaps as high as No. 6 overall.

Reports the Giants favor Michigan's J.J. McCarthy, by contrast, are reportedly no longer true.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10118305-nfl-rumors-giants-may-draft-michael-penix-jr-at-6-amid-drake-maye-mccarthy-buzz

Uhh...I sincerely doubt we'd take Penix at 6. That screams trade down.

Its lying season.

remember I mentioned a potential trade up scenario with the pats the other day.

Lot of rumors they like JJM and we like Maye...and Pats were opened for business but a report the other day came out saying Pats didn't like the trade offers.

I think this is now a rumor being leaked by the Giants saying we are comfortable picking whoever drops to 6 if the pats don't want to work out a trade.

The pats though are worried if they do a #3 to #6 trade with Giants...vikings could be in play to trade up with ARZ or LAC to move up in front of them for JJM. So I think a 3 team trade is needed where the Pats then can trade back up to 4 with ARZ to guarantee JJM.

That way all teams would get what they want.

[MrDollarBills]

Nabers please.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Has a 3 team trade like that ever happened before? I know it’s really common in the nba but don’t think I’ve seen an nfl trade go down like that. I’m still leaning towards just drafting a wide receiver but if you can pull something like that off and have it not cost as much that be a big win.

[mpharris36]

Has a 3 team trade like that ever happened before? I know it’s really common in the nba but don’t think I’ve seen an nfl trade go down like that. I’m still leaning towards just drafting a wide receiver but if you can pull something like that off and have it not cost as much that be a big win.

all depends on what the Pats do at #3...if they pick Maye...I think the Giants are going to trade back out of #6.

If Maye gets passed the Pats I think the Giants will try to trade up to #4. Or if the Giants and Pats know they both like different QB's that is where that trade scenario makes sense.

I think the Giants don't want to give up the farm for JJM. I think the Vikings are more likely to trade up.

In that case I understand some people saying just sit there and take the WR...but the Giants have so many holes and this WR glass is very good...they can get a good WR later and accumulate some draft capital which they need.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Has a 3 team trade like that ever happened before? I know it’s really common in the nba but don’t think I’ve seen an nfl trade go down like that. I’m still leaning towards just drafting a wide receiver but if you can pull something like that off and have it not cost as much that be a big win.

all depends on what the Pats do at #3...if they pick Maye...I think the Giants are going to trade back out of #6.

I think the Giants don't want to give up the farm for JJM. I think the Vikings are more likely to trade up.

In that case I understand some people saying just sit there and take the WR...but the Giants have so many holes and this WR glass is very good...they can get a good WR later and accumulate some draft capital which they need.

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

[mpharris36]

Has a 3 team trade like that ever happened before? I know it’s really common in the nba but don’t think I’ve seen an nfl trade go down like that. I’m still leaning towards just drafting a wide receiver but if you can pull something like that off and have it not cost as much that be a big win.

all depends on what the Pats do at #3...if they pick Maye...I think the Giants are going to trade back out of #6.

I think the Giants don't want to give up the farm for JJM. I think the Vikings are more likely to trade up.

In that case I understand some people saying just sit there and take the WR...but the Giants have so many holes and this WR glass is very good...they can get a good WR later and accumulate some draft capital which they need.

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

Also I'm not saying move down like into the 20's or something like that. There is a situation you can move down a few spots and still get Rome Odunze...I think people are trying to either trade up for JJM if he gets past the pats or Joe Alt...That is the recent rumors that teams want to secure the top rated LT.

[TerrenceClarke]

all depends on what the Pats do at #3...if they pick Maye...I think the Giants are going to trade back out of #6.

I think the Giants don't want to give up the farm for JJM. I think the Vikings are more likely to trade up.

In that case I understand some people saying just sit there and take the WR...but the Giants have so many holes and this WR glass is very good...they can get a good WR later and accumulate some draft capital which they need.

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

Also I'm not saying move down like into the 20's or something like that. There is a situation you can move down a few spots and still get Rome Odunze...I think people are trying to either trade up for JJM if he gets past the pats or Joe Alt...That is the recent rumors that teams want to secure the top rated LT.

I been saying this for Months. WR is almost turning into RB Position where there is value later. The majority of the top cats were not even top 10.

WR is not QB. you can pass on alot of them if you have other pressing needs and still get a stud later.

[mpharris36]

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

Also I'm not saying move down like into the 20's or something like that. There is a situation you can move down a few spots and still get Rome Odunze...I think people are trying to either trade up for JJM if he gets past the pats or Joe Alt...That is the recent rumors that teams want to secure the top rated LT.

I been saying this for Months. WR is almost turning into RB Position where there is value later. The majority of the top cats were not even top 10.

WR is not QB. you can pass on alot of them if you have other pressing needs and still get a stud later.

Another key factor is if the Giants aren't going QB with there 1st pick they might want to accumulate some draft ammo so that they can trade back into round 1 for a Pennix or someone like that.

Nabers/MHjr/Nabers could end up all being studs. You know who also was a stud...OBJ. How many times did the Giants finish with a winning record with OBJ? Once in 5 years? And Odell was at the top of the sport at the time pre-injury.

Thats not taking anything away from OBJ's greatness...but if you don't have the a future QB situation figured out or the rest of the roster you just have a really good to great WR wasting away on your roster.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

sounds like Maye to the pats...

[Deeeez Knicks]

all depends on what the Pats do at #3...if they pick Maye...I think the Giants are going to trade back out of #6.

I think the Giants don't want to give up the farm for JJM. I think the Vikings are more likely to trade up.

In that case I understand some people saying just sit there and take the WR...but the Giants have so many holes and this WR glass is very good...they can get a good WR later and accumulate some draft capital which they need.

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

I think that’s a flawed way to look at hits and misses. Daniel Jones is considered a hit and he is a bust.

No disagreement that you can find wrs later in the draft too but that also applies to all positions. You can find QBs and other positions later in draft too.

I would just look at it independently and each player independently. WRs are immensely valuable especially stud ones so if you have a chance to get one could be a great pick.

[TerrenceClarke]

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

Also I'm not saying move down like into the 20's or something like that. There is a situation you can move down a few spots and still get Rome Odunze...I think people are trying to either trade up for JJM if he gets past the pats or Joe Alt...That is the recent rumors that teams want to secure the top rated LT.

I been saying this for Months. WR is almost turning into RB Position where there is value later. The majority of the top cats were not even top 10.

WR is not QB. you can pass on alot of them if you have other pressing needs and still get a stud later.

Another key factor is if the Giants aren't going QB with there 1st pick they might want to accumulate some draft ammo so that they can trade back into round 1 for a Pennix or someone like that.

Nabers/MHjr/Nabers could end up all being studs. You know who also was a stud...OBJ. How many times did the Giants finish with a winning record with OBJ? Once in 5 years? And Odell was at the top of the sport at the time pre-injury.

Thats not taking anything away from OBJ's greatness...but if you don't have the a future QB situation figured out or the rest of the roster you just have a really good to great WR wasting away on your roster.

facts.

Its why Im not pressed for a WR over QB. Plus Real talented WRs usually start causing fits when their QB is not up to par...we dont need that type energy right now. Considering what we working with at this moment.

A young QB and WR drafted this year would know they will grow up together

[Deeeez Knicks]

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

Also I'm not saying move down like into the 20's or something like that. There is a situation you can move down a few spots and still get Rome Odunze...I think people are trying to either trade up for JJM if he gets past the pats or Joe Alt...That is the recent rumors that teams want to secure the top rated LT.

I been saying this for Months. WR is almost turning into RB Position where there is value later. The majority of the top cats were not even top 10.

WR is not QB. you can pass on alot of them if you have other pressing needs and still get a stud later.

RBs lose value because they are way more plug and play and don’t impact the game as much as an elite wr. Chase, Jefferson, Lamb, Hill, etc are all game changers that open things up. Not disagreeing that you can find one later. In this draft where we are picking in the 2nd round, we could see 9 or 10wrs go before our pick in the 2nd round so it will be tougher. A lot of teams are gonna be targeting wrs in that range so they will be flying off the board. So it will be tough to find a legit stud wr later in the draft….not impossible, but odds are lower for sure compared to the top 3 guys.

Also, I just think the top 3 guys are special talent. Can have a legit stud wr locked up for awhile and plug and major hole.

Otherwise, the other positions just look dicey at #6.

[DOT]

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

I think that’s a flawed way to look at hits and misses. Daniel Jones is considered a hit and he is a bust.

No disagreement that you can find wrs later in the draft too but that also applies to all positions. You can find QBs and other positions later in draft too.

I would just look at it independently and each player independently. WRs are immensely valuable especially stud ones so if you have a chance to get one could be a great pick.

Here's another way to look at it, still flawed though:

Spoiler:

Top 5 WRs by draft in terms of AV:

2022:
Olave (11)
Pickens (52)
London (8)
Wilson (10)
Watson (34)

1st rounders not in the top 5:
Jameson Williams (12)
Jahan Dotson (16)
Treylon Burks (18)

2021:
Sun God (112)
Chase (5)
Smith (10)
Waddle (6)
Collins (89)

1st rounders not in the top 5:
Toney (20)
Bateman (27)

2020:
Lamb (17)
Jefferson (22)
Aiyuk (25)
Pittman (34)
Higgins (31)

1st rounders not in the top 5:
Ruggs (12)
Jeudy (15)
Reagor (21)

2019:
Brown (51)
Metcalf (64)
Deebo (36)
McLaurin (76)
Brown (25)

1st rounders not in the top 5:
N'Keal Harry (32)

2018:
Moore (24)
Kirk (47)
Ridley (26)
Sutton (40)
Gallup (81)

1st rounders not in the top 5:
none

So that's 5 years of drafts, I think my takeaway would be that while you might not get the best receiver in the class if you're picking top 10, they've been pretty consistently one of the top WRs when taken. Frankly, the last time I would say there were outright busts in the top 10 was 2017 when you had Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross go, and you can make the case they didn't bust due to talent but because of injuries

Taking a WR high has been pretty safe the past several years, but yeah there are always great WRs later. However, it's more a case of 1 person vs the field, same reason why even though the worst team in the NBA is the most likely of any individual team to get the #1 pick, they're still overall unlikely to get it.

[mpharris36]

I would still just rather take one of the top 3 wrs. IMO there’s a big drop off and more risk in trading down. One of those guys has the best chance to be a legit difference maker. More so then just trying to plug holes, get someone that can be a transcendent talent.

I don't really agree with that take TBH

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As much as I think these WR's are super talented (and they are very highly regarded prospects). Whats a good WR with your QB situation still in flux and you so many other holes on the roster. Also good WR do get found all over the place.

Armon-Ra St. Brown just got paid and is the highest paid WR and he was a 4th round pick.

I think that’s a flawed way to look at hits and misses. Daniel Jones is considered a hit and he is a bust.

No disagreement that you can find wrs later in the draft too but that also applies to all positions. You can find QBs and other positions later in draft too.

I would just look at it independently and each player independently. WRs are immensely valuable especially stud ones so if you have a chance to get one could be a great pick.

Its not "perfect" logic but its also not terrible logic (otherwise bust or hit becomes subjective - so there will be outliers for sure in any objective statistic). Which, I also don't consider Daniel Jones a bust pick. A QB taking your team to the playoffs and winning a playoff game in your rookie contract is considered a bust? Yes now his injuries have put us in a position we really can't 100% move forward with him. But thats football sometimes.

Ryan Leaf, Jamarcas Russell, Akili Smith are busts.

And yes I'm not saying picking a WR absolutely is a no go, but trading down isn't necessarily "filling" holes...if you get the picks right you can get multiple impactful players. But Diggs gets traded, Brandon Aiyuk is likely to be traded. Tee Higgins could eventually be traded. I think its also the easiest position to trade for an impactful player if you really are ready to make the jump.