Gallinari or Barrett?

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Gallo was a much better player.

More efficient, less selfish, better shooter, and better defender.

Injuries derailed his career but even with the injuries I'm taking Gallo over RJ any day of the week.

He was much more talented and had a much higher basketball IQ.

Knicks should right now trade RJ for Gallo (and either Gaff or Wright plus Davis to balance the salaries, so picks would have to go in the letter direction).

In fact I was extreme surprised in opening the thread that this wasn't the topic rather than who is likely to have the better career.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

This sadly brings up a very interesting thought that may be one of the root causes of why Knick fans are among the most dire fanbase in existence.

Other than Ewing (which was a no brainer once the frozen envelope did its job 28 years ago) what player that the Knicks have drafted has ever made an impact that altered the direction of this team and held it there for any length of relevance? And I’m not talking superstar level, any level.

And the Knicks have had plenty of lottery picks.

Anyone?

Anyone?

Probably will end up being Mitch.

[Bob Ross]

I wonder what team has the most misses in terms of players drafted in the lotto. It legit has to be the Knicks right? They blow every lotto pick except Porzingis, and even then he was an arrogant diva

[nedleeds]

Gallo was a much better player.

More efficient, less selfish, better shooter, and better defender.

Injuries derailed his career but even with the injuries I'm taking Gallo over RJ any day of the week.

He was much more talented and had a much higher basketball IQ.

Knicks should right now trade RJ for Gallo (and either Gaff or Wright plus Davis to balance the salaries, so picks would have to go in the letter direction).

In fact I was extreme surprised in opening the thread that this wasn't the topic rather than who is likely to have the better career.

I would trade RJ for Kevin Knox just to get off the money.

[nedleeds]

I wonder what team has the most misses in terms of players drafted in the lotto. It legit has to be the Knicks right? They blow every lotto pick except Porzingis, and even then he was an arrogant diva

They blow them and have the fewest. Teams like the Suns, 76ers and Cavs have blown way more but they've had so many more top 5 picks they can afford to miss.

Since 1980 Knicks have had the least top 5 picks in the league, even including franchises that came into being way later. Knicks also have no championships.

[Chanel Bomber]

Gallo was a much better player.

More efficient, less selfish, better shooter, and better defender.

Injuries derailed his career but even with the injuries I'm taking Gallo over RJ any day of the week.

He was much more talented and had a much higher basketball IQ.

Knicks should right now trade RJ for Gallo (and either Gaff or Wright plus Davis to balance the salaries, so picks would have to go in the letter direction).

In fact I was extreme surprised in opening the thread that this wasn't the topic rather than who is likely to have the better career.

I would trade RJ for Kevin Knox just to get off the money.

Jesus you two

[Guano]

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Knicks should right now trade RJ for Gallo (and either Gaff or Wright plus Davis to balance the salaries, so picks would have to go in the letter direction).

In fact I was extreme surprised in opening the thread that this wasn't the topic rather than who is likely to have the better career.

I would trade RJ for Kevin Knox just to get off the money.

Jesus you two

Ok. But my trades are possible under salary rules and would (arguably) improve the Knicks.

[Richard4444]

Right now, Gallo is a heavy player who is shooting poorly from deep and can not get rebounds or properly protect the rim. I am not sure he can play PF anymore and he is not the kind of Center that Thibs like.

If he gets bought out, we could risk getting him. He could improve. But he is not worth to trade for.

[Richard4444]

This sadly brings up a very interesting thought that may be one of the root causes of why Knick fans are among the most dire fanbase in existence.

Other than Ewing (which was a no brainer once the frozen envelope did its job 28 years ago) what player that the Knicks have drafted has ever made an impact that altered the direction of this team and held it there for any length of relevance? And I’m not talking superstar level, any level.

And the Knicks have had plenty of lottery picks.

Anyone?

Anyone?

KP - We went for a rebuilding trading Melo and we were building the team around KP. It had a great impact.

Mitch - The team suffers when he can not play.

[Chanel Bomber]

Gallo was a much better player.

More efficient, less selfish, better shooter, and better defender.

Injuries derailed his career but even with the injuries I'm taking Gallo over RJ any day of the week.

He was much more talented and had a much higher basketball IQ.

And It’s not even close!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before the ill advised back surgery Gallo was looking like a freak point forward.

Watch on YouTube

6' 10" SHREWD, CLEVER, SLICK with the Pete Maravich (actually a shamgod)

Watch on YouTube

Shaq with the lore

Watch on YouTube

Yeah he had some flair in his game.

I think I've mentioned it before but I remember when he pulled the shammgod again in one of his rookie preseason games (before they shut him down for the first couple months of the season) and the camera panned to D'Antoni who had this proud dad smile on his face.

Gallo would also take some deep 3s starting from his second season that you saw only occasionally in the league back in the day.

I'd say he was my favorite Knick draftee with Mitch. They were both just fun to follow (to me). Both with that extra charisma that made them endearing. It also doesn't hurt they were both good at some things. KP was better of course but he didn't resonate with me on the same level. Granted, this is purely subjective.

[Capn'O]

Unfortunately our best draftees both sustained early injuries and hit peak on other teams. That's the thing about building through the draft. You have to kiss a lot of frogs and we've never really committed like that, trading picks and moving on early.

[dakomish23]

Stats no context 5th season

Gallo 71 games 32.5 MPG age 24
16.2 PPG 5.2 RPG 2.5 APG 0.9 SPG 0.5 BPG
41.8% on 12.3 FGA
37.3% on 5.1 3PA
82.2% on 4.9 FTA
EFG 49.5% TS 56.1%

RJ 24 games (so far) 29.2 MPG age 23
18.4 PPG 4.2 RPG 2.4 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG
42.6% on 14.9 FGA
34.7% on 4.9 3PA
85.0% on 4.7 FTA
EFG 48.3% TS 54.2%

[Buttah304]

Stats no context 5th season

Gallo 71 games 32.5 MPG age 24
16.2 PPG 5.2 RPG 2.5 APG 0.9 SPG 0.5 BPG
41.8% on 12.3 FGA
37.3% on 5.1 3PA
82.2% on 4.9 FTA
EFG 49.5% TS 56.1%

RJ 24 games (so far) 29.2 MPG age 23
18.4 PPG 4.2 RPG 2.4 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG
42.6% on 14.9 FGA
34.7% on 4.9 3PA
85.0% on 4.7 FTA
EFG 48.3% TS 54.2%

Gallinari 5th Season:

USG% 21.0
Plus/Minus: +334
Defensive Rating: 107

RJ 5th Season:

USG% 27.0
Plus/Minus: +14
Defensive Rating: 118.2

[Chanel Bomber]

Stats no context 5th season

Gallo 71 games 32.5 MPG age 24
16.2 PPG 5.2 RPG 2.5 APG 0.9 SPG 0.5 BPG
41.8% on 12.3 FGA
37.3% on 5.1 3PA
82.2% on 4.9 FTA
EFG 49.5% TS 56.1%

RJ 24 games (so far) 29.2 MPG age 23
18.4 PPG 4.2 RPG 2.4 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG
42.6% on 14.9 FGA
34.7% on 4.9 3PA
85.0% on 4.7 FTA
EFG 48.3% TS 54.2%

Gallinari 5th Season:

USG% 21.0
Plus/Minus: +334
Defensive Rating: 107

RJ 5th Season:

USG% 27.0
Plus/Minus: +14
Defensive Rating: 118.2

The thing is that league-average in TS% has increased exponentially since the Gallo days (53.5% in 2012-13 to 58.0% this season).

So while their raw 5th-season TS% aren't worlds apart, Gallo was a 105 in league-adjusted TS+ (meaning comfortably above league-average) while RJ is a 94 (well below average though an improvement over the last two years).

Gallo was more efficient because a higher ratio of his shots were free throws and 3s, which he both shot well. RJ takes a lower ratio of both in his shot diet. RJ's shot diet consists of a lot of inefficient 2-point FGAs, which he shoots at a league-worst 46.0% among players taking 9 or more 2FGAs a game (9.8 for RJ).

There was a significant gap on defense too, as you alluded to. Not that Gallo was All-NBA, but he was solid.

[Buttah304]

Stats no context 5th season

Gallo 71 games 32.5 MPG age 24
16.2 PPG 5.2 RPG 2.5 APG 0.9 SPG 0.5 BPG
41.8% on 12.3 FGA
37.3% on 5.1 3PA
82.2% on 4.9 FTA
EFG 49.5% TS 56.1%

RJ 24 games (so far) 29.2 MPG age 23
18.4 PPG 4.2 RPG 2.4 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG
42.6% on 14.9 FGA
34.7% on 4.9 3PA
85.0% on 4.7 FTA
EFG 48.3% TS 54.2%

Gallinari 5th Season:

USG% 21.0
Plus/Minus: +334
Defensive Rating: 107

RJ 5th Season:

USG% 27.0
Plus/Minus: +14
Defensive Rating: 118.2

The thing is that league-average in TS% has increased exponentially since the Gallo days (53.5% in 2012-13 to 58.0% this season).

So while their raw 5th-season TS% aren't worlds apart, Gallo was a 105 in league-adjusted TS+ (meaning comfortably above league-average) while RJ is a 94 (well below average).

Gallo was more efficient because a higher ratio of his shots were free throws and 3s, which he both shot well. RJ takes a lower ratio of both in shot diet. RJ's shot diet consists of a lot of inefficient 2-point FGAs, which he shoots at a league-worst 46.0% among players taking 9 or more 2FGAs a game (9.8 for RJ).

There was a significant gap on defense to, as you alluded to. Not that Gallo was All-NBA, but he was solid.

Gallo never got credit for being a solid defender which was always baffling to me. Sure as the injuries piled on he wasn’t as quick laterally but he was smart on that end. I also loved how efficient he became in his peak. He was the kind of player that would pour in 18-19 points on 12 FGA. That’s an absolute dream.

[dakomish23]

Stats no context 5th season

Gallo 71 games 32.5 MPG age 24
16.2 PPG 5.2 RPG 2.5 APG 0.9 SPG 0.5 BPG
41.8% on 12.3 FGA
37.3% on 5.1 3PA
82.2% on 4.9 FTA
EFG 49.5% TS 56.1%

RJ 24 games (so far) 29.2 MPG age 23
18.4 PPG 4.2 RPG 2.4 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG
42.6% on 14.9 FGA
34.7% on 4.9 3PA
85.0% on 4.7 FTA
EFG 48.3% TS 54.2%

Gallinari 5th Season:

USG% 21.0
Plus/Minus: +334
Defensive Rating: 107

RJ 5th Season:

USG% 27.0
Plus/Minus: +14
Defensive Rating: 118.2

You're using plus / minus for a whole season vs a quarter of the way in?

Go look at defensive rating in 12-13 vs 23-24 for teams. The worst def rating in 12-13 is 110.3. That would be the 3rd best in today's NBA.

Compare apples to apples

[Buttah304]

Stats no context 5th season

Gallo 71 games 32.5 MPG age 24
16.2 PPG 5.2 RPG 2.5 APG 0.9 SPG 0.5 BPG
41.8% on 12.3 FGA
37.3% on 5.1 3PA
82.2% on 4.9 FTA
EFG 49.5% TS 56.1%

RJ 24 games (so far) 29.2 MPG age 23
18.4 PPG 4.2 RPG 2.4 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG
42.6% on 14.9 FGA
34.7% on 4.9 3PA
85.0% on 4.7 FTA
EFG 48.3% TS 54.2%

Gallinari 5th Season:

USG% 21.0
Plus/Minus: +334
Defensive Rating: 107

RJ 5th Season:

USG% 27.0
Plus/Minus: +14
Defensive Rating: 118.2

You're using plus / minus for a whole season vs a quarter of the way in?

Go look at defensive rating in 12-13 vs 23-24 for teams. The worst def rating in 12-13 is 110.3. That would be the 3rd best in today's NBA.

Compare apples to apples

You put stats no context so all I did was add context.

I used plus/minus because you literally wrote (so far). And if we’re being fair plus/minus (historically) isn’t kind to RJ. Hes a -362 for his career and prior to this year he was a -208 across 170 games. For the Knicks sake I’m actually hoping his +/- gets to the likes of his sophomore year.

And again USG% is also important in this comparison. Gallo did more with less.

[dakomish23]

Gallinari 5th Season:

USG% 21.0
Plus/Minus: +334
Defensive Rating: 107

RJ 5th Season:

USG% 27.0
Plus/Minus: +14
Defensive Rating: 118.2

You're using plus / minus for a whole season vs a quarter of the way in?

Go look at defensive rating in 12-13 vs 23-24 for teams. The worst def rating in 12-13 is 110.3. That would be the 3rd best in today's NBA.

Compare apples to apples

You put stats no context so all I did was add context.

I used plus/minus because you literally wrote (so far). And if we’re being fair plus/minus (historically) isn’t kind to RJ. Hes a -362 for his career and prior to this year he was a -208 across 170 games. For the Knicks sake I’m actually hoping his +/- gets to the likes of his sophomore year.

And again USG% is also important in this comparison. Gallo did more with less.

i agree with the usage argument.

But you can't compare season totals for a whole season vs a quarter season. Would you compare total points or any other box score stat?

individual defense doesn't go back to 12-13 on the NBA site. The first year for Gallo is 14-15 (he missed 13-14). His DFG% was 47.8% vs 44.2% for a +3.6%. RJ's currently is at 45.9% vs 47.3% for -1.4%. That's as close as I get to comparing individual defense

[Chanel Bomber]

DFG% only measures a very small sample of defense, as contested shots by one player only account for a minuscule amount of defensive possessions a player's involved in.

It doesn't capture rotations, help, transition defense, defensive breakdowns leading to wide-open shots etc. Only a very selective outcome.

To measure defense, you need to encompass all defensive possessions.

The best way to do that is to use advanced defensive impact metrics driven by adjusted defensive +/- and on/off. Metrics like defensive RAPTOR, LEBRON, EPM do a fine job of measuring individual defense.