Thibs' Future Post Potential Superstar Acquisition

[Montmorencie]

In my humble opinion, Thibodeau seems ideal for the current situation. However, envision a scenario where we successfully acquire players of the caliber of Embiid, Giannis, or Luka, propelling us into instant contention. This analysis has me contemplating the possibility of parting ways with Thibs immediately in light of such transformative prospects.

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[moocow007]

I’m pretty sure that the Thibs lead Bulls actually was among the league leaders in not just defensive rating but also offensive rating. And the their net rating differential were among the best. I do think the narrative that Thibs teams only play defense and is more or less inept offensively is a bit overstated.

As a coach you are limited to how well a team can do offensively or defensively to the players you have. This Knicks team? Up until the arrival of Jalen Brunson their best PG was a power forward. Their best offensive player and shot creator (something critical to being a top tier offensive team in today’s NBA) was again that same power forward. Outside of Lebron James in his prime, what team has managed to be successful when their starting PF is both the best PG and the no.1 option and primarily shot creator?

But even know with Brunson on the team it is still clear that when you compare the Knicks offensive talent to the other top teams in the NBA they are still back of the pack. Nor has this team been chuck full of defensive studs for much of his tenure (they have one defensive stud in the starting lineup that regularly gets injured and one coming off the bench). And yet the Knicks are rated a top 10 team (arguably despite having the talent of a bottom 10 team).

As far as players not wanting to play for Thibs? I don’t know about that. A lot of these players are familiar with Thibs from USA basketball and by most accounts like him. And also a lot of these superstars want the freedom to create which Thibs system has shown it relies on.

I think superstar players want to be on teams that are stable, that are competitive and that are very good already. Teams that have strong secondary and supporting players. If you look across the landscape of the NBA the Knicks currently qualify in all those areas. They are winning. They are coached by a well known and respected coach that coaches up the supporting cast well. They have arguably one of the best “Robins” in the league in the likeable, mature and impactful Jalen Brunson and a player that can easily be considered one of the best 3rd options in the league (talking Randle) if they were to sign on with the Knicks (especially how well Randle has adjusted to being more of the second fiddle to Brunson).

So no I don’t think Thibs will be an issue with the Knicks landing a superstar. Thats all right now on the skills of this front office to trade for one. That would be where I’d be more concerned about. That and luck/timing (which could be an even bigger hurdle).

[cgmw]

Maybe Thibs is just trying to rehab his own reputation when he blatantly enables and coddles Randle.

[HarthorneWingo]

Maybe Thibs is just trying to rehab his own reputation when he blatantly enables and coddles Randle.

Bro, it's not "Randle complaining time" right now. He's playing pretty good basketball.

[stuporman]

I'm still of the skeptical belief that with some expiring deals and ballooning cap the Knicks will add Mitchell as a FA so Thibs will ride into the sunset of an executive coaching position in the org and Bryant takes over.

Say what you will about fit and such but Spyda is coming home...cue the music.

If there is any consolidation deals it probably will be for a wing that fits the scheme but I don't have much of an inkling who that can turn out to be.

Either way, I think Thibs is done as head coach once his deal is up and he moves up to the FO.

[Clyde_Style]

Maybe Thibs is just trying to rehab his own reputation when he blatantly enables and coddles Randle.

Bro, it's not "Randle complaining time" right now. He's playing pretty good basketball.

Randle's lack of effort on defense is enabled by Thibs.

CGMW questioning Thibs lack of accountability for select players is fair game at any time regardless of Randle's recent production.

If Thibs is such a great defensive coach he sure bends the rules for Randle.

[Jeffrey]

You know why star players don't complain about Thibs when they actually play for him? Thibs will give them their freedom to cook on the offensive end. Thibs wants you to focus on defense and communication on that side of the ball where usually star players do not care about.

[Capn'O]

He's not going anywhere

[cgmw]

Maybe Thibs is just trying to rehab his own reputation when he blatantly enables and coddles Randle.

Bro, it's not "Randle complaining time" right now. He's playing pretty good basketball.

Randle's lack of effort on defense is enabled by Thibs.

CGMW questioning Thibs lack of accountability for select players is fair game at any time regardless of Randle's recent production.

If Thibs is such a great defensive coach he sure bends the rules for Randle.

Well, specifically i suspect Thibs treatment of Randle is in direct response to criticism that he can’t handle superstars or that superstars don’t want to play for him.

And in fairness, I’m not complaining with the results. Thibs can enable and coddle Randle all he wants if he can help coax the kind of production we’ve seen the past few years. Problem is, it’s such terrible behavior (by both coach and player) that they will both lose favor the minute that production falls off. It’s horrible and ugly, but it’s working so I’m not complaining.

Bottom line is other star players see how Thibs lets Randle do whatever he wants and maybe that will be enough to lure one of them?

[Adelheid]

Its the FO's fault for selecting a guy to lead the franchise, happens to only want to play one side of the ball

Its all on them. Suppose they dont fancy the likes of SGA et al

Thibs only does the cuddling because it is less catastrophic than if the lead guy were to go berserk on the team; he will lose the entire roster if that happens. As hideous as it may sound, Thibs just chose to do the lesser evil

Again, its the FO's fault. They made the bed and they should lie on it

[Clyde_Style]

Bro, it's not "Randle complaining time" right now. He's playing pretty good basketball.

Randle's lack of effort on defense is enabled by Thibs.

CGMW questioning Thibs lack of accountability for select players is fair game at any time regardless of Randle's recent production.

If Thibs is such a great defensive coach he sure bends the rules for Randle.

Well, specifically i suspect Thibs treatment of Randle is in direct response to criticism that he can’t handle superstars or that superstars don’t want to play for him.

And in fairness, I’m not complaining with the results. Thibs can enable and coddle Randle all he wants if he can help coax the kind of production we’ve seen the past few years. Problem is, it’s such terrible behavior (by both coach and player) that they will both lose favor the minute that production falls off. It’s horrible and ugly, but it’s working so I’m not complaining.

Bottom line is other star players see how Thibs lets Randle do whatever he wants and maybe that will be enough to lure one of them?

Steph Curry is not a defensive maestro, but even he plays more defense than Randle does. Embiid plays more defense than Randle. Lots of good players are OK on defense, but don't give full effort. But they often do more than Randle does.

If Randle is a rung below the top guys I don't see how it will attract any alpha if we have double standards here. Sure superstars can coast on defense if they want to and they certainly do. But Randle's loafing is sometimes on a whole other scale.

I'm not confident that lack of accountability is the lure you're suggesting it is.

[Clyde_Style]

Its the FO's fault for selecting a guy to lead the franchise, happens to only want to play one side of the ball

Its all on them. Suppose they dont fancy the likes of SGA et al

Thibs only does the cuddling because it is less catastrophic than if the lead guy were to go berserk on the team; he will lose the entire roster if that happens. As hideous as it may sound, Thibs just chose to do the lesser evil

Again, its the FO's fault. They made the bed and they should lie on it

The FO gave the early extension despite the mood swings and emotional volatility. He may be on a chemical regimen. Sometimes they work well, sometimes they make you feel like trash. Randle seems to be a guy who goes on solid runs and then goes into a funk. That pattern on the court is consistent with a person going through mood stabilization issues.

They did make their bed with Randle knowing whatever there is to know about his condition.

[HarthorneWingo]

Maybe Thibs is just trying to rehab his own reputation when he blatantly enables and coddles Randle.

Bro, it's not "Randle complaining time" right now. He's playing pretty good basketball.

Randle's lack of effort on defense is enabled by Thibs.

CGMW questioning Thibs lack of accountability for select players is fair game at any time regardless of Randle's recent production.

If Thibs is such a great defensive coach he sure bends the rules for Randle.

I know what he's questioning, you big dummy.

Julius was the 6th best defensive PF in the league with a 113.9 defensive rating last season. And in fairness to Randle, he's a fcking BIG DUDE. Thibs's defense is tailored to protect the paint. Randle will be on a ventilator by the playoffs if he's required to close out on 3s every play. Plus, he's rebounding in double digits and giving us 5 assists each game. He's working out there, trust me.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2023

[Clyde_Style]

Bro, it's not "Randle complaining time" right now. He's playing pretty good basketball.

Randle's lack of effort on defense is enabled by Thibs.

CGMW questioning Thibs lack of accountability for select players is fair game at any time regardless of Randle's recent production.

If Thibs is such a great defensive coach he sure bends the rules for Randle.

I know what he's questioning, you big dummy.

Julius was the 6th best defensive PF in the league with a 113.9 defensive rating last season. And in fairness to Randle, he's a fcking BIG DUDE. Thibs's defense is tailored to protect the paint. Randle will be on a ventilator by the playoffs if he's required to close out on 3s every play. Plus, he's rebounding in double digits and giving us 5 assists each game. He's working out there, trust me.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2023

He played D on Giannis and he didn't collapse

I'll have to agree to disagree

Spoiler:

[HarthorneWingo]

Randle's lack of effort on defense is enabled by Thibs.

CGMW questioning Thibs lack of accountability for select players is fair game at any time regardless of Randle's recent production.

If Thibs is such a great defensive coach he sure bends the rules for Randle.

I know what he's questioning, you big dummy.

Julius was the 6th best defensive PF in the league with a 113.9 defensive rating last season. And in fairness to Randle, he's a fcking BIG DUDE. Thibs's defense is tailored to protect the paint. Randle will be on a ventilator by the playoffs if he's required to close out on 3s every play. Plus, he's rebounding in double digits and giving us 5 assists each game. He's working out there, trust me.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2023

He played D on Giannis and he didn't collapse

I'll have to agree to disagree

Spoiler:

So you're argument in response is that Randle played good defense against Giannis? Giannis doesn't hang out taking 3s all game. If he did, Randle wouldn't contest them by design. We'd gladly let him take that shot all night long. Randle bangs down low on defense usually. He also has to make sure he stays away from silly fouls because we need him on the court.

Randle is at 116.1 this season but that's just as good as Patrick Williams and better than Pascal Siakam.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2024

[Clyde_Style]

I know what he's questioning, you big dummy.

Julius was the 6th best defensive PF in the league with a 113.9 defensive rating last season. And in fairness to Randle, he's a fcking BIG DUDE. Thibs's defense is tailored to protect the paint. Randle will be on a ventilator by the playoffs if he's required to close out on 3s every play. Plus, he's rebounding in double digits and giving us 5 assists each game. He's working out there, trust me.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2023

He played D on Giannis and he didn't collapse

I'll have to agree to disagree

Spoiler:

So you're argument in response is that Randle played good defense against Giannis? Giannis doesn't hang out taking 3s all game. If he did, Randle wouldn't contest them by design. We'd gladly let him take that shot all night long. Randle bangs down low on defense usually. He also has to make sure he stays away from silly fouls because we need him on the court.

Randle is at 116.1 this season but that's just as good as Patrick Williams and better than Pascal Siakam.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2024

I don't consider this statistically relevant when almost every game I see Randle pouting after a miss and not getting downcourt with his teammates to defend. When he's in that mood he'll do it repeatedly in the same game. And the opponent will be scoring on us with a 5 on 4 advantage. Don't take it personally, but I really DGAF about his stats when my eyes see this in living color over and over and over again.

[HarthorneWingo]

He played D on Giannis and he didn't collapse

I'll have to agree to disagree

Spoiler:

So you're argument in response is that Randle played good defense against Giannis? Giannis doesn't hang out taking 3s all game. If he did, Randle wouldn't contest them by design. We'd gladly let him take that shot all night long. Randle bangs down low on defense usually. He also has to make sure he stays away from silly fouls because we need him on the court.

Randle is at 116.1 this season but that's just as good as Patrick Williams and better than Pascal Siakam.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2024

I don't consider this statistically relevant when almost every game I see Randle pouting after a miss and not getting downcourt with his teammates to defend. When he's in that mood he'll do it repeatedly in the same game. And the opponent will be scoring on us with a 5 on 4 advantage. Don't take it personally, but I really DGAF about his stats when my eyes see this in living color over and over and over again.

[Clyde_Style]

So you're argument in response is that Randle played good defense against Giannis? Giannis doesn't hang out taking 3s all game. If he did, Randle wouldn't contest them by design. We'd gladly let him take that shot all night long. Randle bangs down low on defense usually. He also has to make sure he stays away from silly fouls because we need him on the court.

Randle is at 116.1 this season but that's just as good as Patrick Williams and better than Pascal Siakam.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-power-forwards-2024

I don't consider this statistically relevant when almost every game I see Randle pouting after a miss and not getting downcourt with his teammates to defend. When he's in that mood he'll do it repeatedly in the same game. And the opponent will be scoring on us with a 5 on 4 advantage. Don't take it personally, but I really DGAF about his stats when my eyes see this in living color over and over and over again.

Stop. Nobody is imagining his walking nonchalantly downcourt multiple times a game. Many people comment on it in real time in the game threads.

What's relevant is this chimp enjoying the leaves in Fall

[HarthorneWingo]

I don't consider this statistically relevant when almost every game I see Randle pouting after a miss and not getting downcourt with his teammates to defend. When he's in that mood he'll do it repeatedly in the same game. And the opponent will be scoring on us with a 5 on 4 advantage. Don't take it personally, but I really DGAF about his stats when my eyes see this in living color over and over and over again.

Stop. Nobody is imagining his walking nonchalantly downcourt multiple times a game. Many people comment on it in real time in the game threads.

What's relevant is this chimp enjoying the leaves in Fall

Just wait till Melo finds out.

[Clyde_Style]

Stop. Nobody is imagining his walking nonchalantly downcourt multiple times a game. Many people comment on it in real time in the game threads.

What's relevant is this chimp enjoying the leaves in Fall

Just wait till Melo finds out.

I'm too tired to shovel Wingo. Good night