How close are the Knicks to Contention?

[Clyde_Style]

The front office has done a fantastic job. This does feel like the closest we have been since the 90s considering we still have assets to make significant moves. With the right move we could be there as a contender

Barring any significant injuries we're in contention already. We do need frontcourt depth to shore up our starters of course, but as of right now we're contenders if no key player goes down

I hope your right. If everything goes perfect.... We stay healthy, Mitch comes back, Grimes and Deuce continue to play better and breakout, regular season Randle shows up in the playoffs, Donte continues his torid stretch.... Maybe we have a shot to make some noise.

Think we may need a little more work to get there though. would love nothing more then to win it all

We have the rest of the season to continue building chemistry. We're in the early stages of integrating OG, rolling out Deuce and reanimating Grimes.

Based on what I see, I believe Grimes and Deuce are ready to contribute and pitch in 20 PPG off the bench and keep our defense rocking.

OG has additional upside we have not tapped yet.

Overall, now that we're playing with flow our guys will start to build play action muscle memory. They're already cutting and finding each other, but that can continue to improve.

What we are also adapting to is our new pace. We still run half court sets much of the game, but we're pushing upcourt whenever we can before defenses set. Hart and Donte board and release. iHart looks upcourt for a release man when he boards. Brunson is passing more. Sometimes Hart boards and goes straight upcourt and gets at least one easy bucket a game going full court.

That increased pace will prime them to run transition offense better. It's something we don't do historically under Thibs and it takes some getting used to. Running those fast breaks is a skill too.

So we'll get better through repetition as guys get used to each other. It's early days still until the chemistry ripens.

[Ursusamericanus]

I'm really getting sick of the disrespect on the GB. Do people still think these are the Isiah Knicks or something? Annoys the **** out of me. Can't wait stomp their teams.

[thebuzzardman]

Mikal Bridges would be an excellent fit on this roster. He is not a franchise player or some big time scorer, but it's not his fault that the Nets tried to paint him as something that he isn't. He's a #3 type. If you want elite perimeter defense, spacing and someone who can give you 16 to 21 pts within the flow of the offense, he is your guy.

He will give the Knicks what fans want to see out of Grimes, at a higher level. He would not take the ball out of JB and Randle's hands either.

which I think makes a lot of sense because we are cooking right now with Brunson and Randle doing much of the usage. Mikal would fit nicely into that #3 role and then him and OG would be death on teams on defense.

If we could somehow get Mikal you have to do it.

Would you burn 4 picks to do it and Grimes/Fournier etc to do it? I might.

While Donte would shore up the bench, is Mikal good enough from 3 to make up for how Donte spreads the floor and hits dagger 3's?
Important to consider regarding roster balance and the latest run of success.

Brunson/Deuce
Mikal/Donte
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Mikal/Hart
IHart/? (I'd burn another pick for Olynky) Precious

[Chanel Bomber]

he's having a bad stretch, im not judging anyone on a 10 game sample size...if anything maybe we can get him cheaper

not sure what that is suppose to mean (well I do know what you are trying to get at) but it makes no sense since I never made any proclamation off a 10 games...

Correct which is why I think 10 game sample sizes is pretty much useless when it comes to advance stats...there just isn't much there. Not enough data points to weed out the overly skewed data.

direct quote from me regarding one of those arguments with you.

Right, most of our disagreements were of a different nature. If I mistook you for someone else, apologies.

In fact, contrary to you, I think advanced stats can be highly relevant to describe what happened over a small sample. Where I agree with you is that you can't necessarily extrapolate from them over a small sample.

Not to open this file again, but you did say that "15 games is not a small sample size and no one "forgets" he wasn't 100%..." to draw conclusions about playoff Randle. I find that take a bit unfair in light of the injury he played through combined with your general position on sample size then. Not that I care too much, but it just seemed a bit radical to me at the time. Maybe that's what stuck with me.

[Ursusamericanus]

Barring any significant injuries we're in contention already. We do need frontcourt depth to shore up our starters of course, but as of right now we're contenders if no key player goes down

I hope your right. If everything goes perfect.... We stay healthy, Mitch comes back, Grimes and Deuce continue to play better and breakout, regular season Randle shows up in the playoffs, Donte continues his torid stretch.... Maybe we have a shot to make some noise.

Think we may need a little more work to get there though. would love nothing more then to win it all

We have the rest of the season to continue building chemistry. We're in the early stages of integrating OG, rolling out Deuce and reanimating Grimes.

Based on what I see, I believe Grimes and Deuce are ready to contribute and pitch in 20 PPG off the bench and keep our defense rocking.

I like a lot of what you say, but 20 PPG really? I'd take 10-15 at this point... and we gotta see how much burn they get from Thibs in the first place.

[Buttah304]

@MPH @ Melo

What I’m going to chime in with is this (and it’s not about Mikal).

The talk here is that Donovan would be too small. And while there is this part of me that feels that might be true, it could obviously work for reasons that are similar to how we’re currently constructed.

Donte is 6’4 - by no means is he a big 2 guard (an inch taller then DM) and if we’re being very fair - Donte loves to be aggressive and play the passing lanes but in reality Donovan actually does that better. He’s averaging 3.1 deflections to DDV 2 and he’s grabbing you 2 steals to Dontes 1.1. Not to mention the fact that Spidas defensive rating this year is 111.5 to DDV 114.

All this to say - if we feel good about Dontes off ball shooting and gambling ways, we would feel even that much better with DM.

[cgf]

Barring any significant injuries we're in contention already. We do need frontcourt depth to shore up our starters of course, but as of right now we're contenders if no key player goes down

I hope your right. If everything goes perfect.... We stay healthy, Mitch comes back, Grimes and Deuce continue to play better and breakout, regular season Randle shows up in the playoffs, Donte continues his torid stretch.... Maybe we have a shot to make some noise.

Think we may need a little more work to get there though. would love nothing more then to win it all

We have the rest of the season to continue building chemistry. We're in the early stages of integrating OG, rolling out Deuce and reanimating Grimes.

Based on what I see, I believe Grimes and Deuce are ready to contribute and pitch in 20 PPG off the bench and keep our defense rocking.

OG has additional upside we have not tapped yet.

Overall, now that we're playing with flow our guys will start to build play action muscle memory. They're already cutting and finding each other, but that can continue to improve.

What we are also adapting to is our new pace. We still run half court sets much of the game, but we're pushing upcourt whenever we can before defenses set. Hart and Donte board and release. iHart looks upcourt for a release man when he boards. Brunson is passing more. Sometimes Hart boards and goes straight upcourt and gets at least one easy bucket a game going full court.

That increased pace will prime them to run transition offense better. It's something we don't do historically under Thibs and it takes some getting used to. Running those fast breaks is a skill too.

So we'll get better through repetition as guys get used to each other. It's early days still until the chemistry ripens.

Luckily there's another month before the deadline. So our FO have given themselves some time to see how this team looks post-trade...and find out if Mitch is definitely out...before we have to pull the trigger on any follow ups that they could be exploring.

[Clyde_Style]

I hope your right. If everything goes perfect.... We stay healthy, Mitch comes back, Grimes and Deuce continue to play better and breakout, regular season Randle shows up in the playoffs, Donte continues his torid stretch.... Maybe we have a shot to make some noise.

Think we may need a little more work to get there though. would love nothing more then to win it all

We have the rest of the season to continue building chemistry. We're in the early stages of integrating OG, rolling out Deuce and reanimating Grimes.

Based on what I see, I believe Grimes and Deuce are ready to contribute and pitch in 20 PPG off the bench and keep our defense rocking.

I like a lot of what you say, but 20 PPG really? I'd take 10-15 at this point... and we gotta see how much burn they get from Thibs in the first place.

They had 33 two games ago and 34 points last night.

Grimes averaged 13 PPG last year. Adding 7 points to that from Deuce is not that much.

20 PPG from the two of them is easily obtainable.

Deuce can shoot the ball and if they are given 20 minutes a night should average at least 10 PPG. They scored 15 points in 15 minutes last night.

[duetta]

Mitch Rob for Olynyk and parts

Fournier + 1st for Brogdon

There is no reason to wait until next season to fix our weaknesses. We can become a true contender this season. No reason to wait especially when the cost is so reasonable potentially.

Trading Mitch for an expiring that we could resign on the cheap might be the only way to give I-Hart fair value next season. But there is a risk in doing this, and that is Hartenstein regressing and the team without their defensive anchor.

[mpharris36]

not sure what that is suppose to mean (well I do know what you are trying to get at) but it makes no sense since I never made any proclamation off a 10 games...

Correct which is why I think 10 game sample sizes is pretty much useless when it comes to advance stats...there just isn't much there. Not enough data points to weed out the overly skewed data.

direct quote from me regarding one of those arguments with you.

Right, most of our disagreements were of a different nature. If I mistook you for someone else, apologies.

In fact, contrary to you, I think advanced stats can be highly relevant to describe what happened over a small sample. Where I agree with you is that you can't necessarily extrapolate from them over a small sample.

Not to open this file again, but you did say that "15 games is not a small sample size and no one "forgets" he wasn't 100%..." to draw conclusions about playoff Randle. I find that take a bit unfair in light of the injury he played through combined with your general position on sample size then. Not that I care too much, but it just seemed a bit radical to me at the time. Maybe that's what stuck with me.

the playoffs are a different animal. You obviously play less playoff games then regular season games so you typically wont accumulate a ton of playoff games unless you are like LeBron James or someone like that.

Bob Myers says the playoffs are a different animal so its not even the smallish sample size its just the fact randle stengths don't always play up in the playoffs...contested jumpers, turnovers, and lack of defense...now he seems to have made more of an effort in scoring in the paint recently and only picking his spots from 3 and the perimeter which is good.

But I don't think anyone is comfortable with Randle heading into the playoffs...he will have to earn that trust with a good performance because its been 3 abysmal series to date. I am hoping it changes and really the knicks will be pretty reliant on Randle to be be good.

15 games in the PLAYOFFS is not nothing. Over the course of a regular season where guys go in and out of slumps its less impactful then an entire season.

[Ursusamericanus]

We have the rest of the season to continue building chemistry. We're in the early stages of integrating OG, rolling out Deuce and reanimating Grimes.

Based on what I see, I believe Grimes and Deuce are ready to contribute and pitch in 20 PPG off the bench and keep our defense rocking.

I like a lot of what you say, but 20 PPG really? I'd take 10-15 at this point... and we gotta see how much burn they get from Thibs in the first place.

They had 33 two games ago and 34 points last night.

Grimes averaged 13 PPG last year. Adding 7 points to that from Deuce is not that much.

20 PPG from the two of them is easily obtainable.

Deuce can shoot the ball and if they are given 20 minutes a night should average at least 10 PPG. They scored 15 points in 15 minutes last night.

Ahh... I thought you meant 20 PPG each my bad!

[sol537]

I don’t think Cleveland trades Spida until this off season, at the earliest.

It’s possible Embiid or Giannis are available as well. Might be interesting

[Ursusamericanus]

I don’t think Cleveland trades Spida until this off season, at the earliest.

It’s possible Embiid or Giannis are available as well. Might be interesting

There's a good chance one or both of their teams **** the bed in the 2nd round. We may have a golden opportunity this offseason to get Giannis or Embiid. Both have expressed frustration with their FOs in recent memory, whereas we clearly have competent leadership for once. Could be the summer to get one of 'em to kick us over the top.

[sol537]

I don’t think Cleveland trades Spida until this off season, at the earliest.

It’s possible Embiid or Giannis are available as well. Might be interesting

There's a good chance one or both of their teams **** the bed in the 2nd round. We may have a golden opportunity this offseason to get Giannis or Embiid. Both have expressed frustration with their FOs in recent memory, whereas we clearly have competent leadership for once. Could be the summer to get one of 'em to kick us over the top.

Yup… and Spida as a plan B!

[Clyde_Style]

@MPH @ Melo

What I’m going to chime in with is this (and it’s not about Mikal).

The talk here is that Donovan would be too small. And while there is this part of me that feels that might be true, it could obviously work for reasons that are similar to how we’re currently constructed.

Donte is 6’4 - by no means is he a big 2 guard (an inch taller then DM) and if we’re being very fair - Donte loves to be aggressive and play the passing lanes but in reality Donovan actually does that better. He’s averaging 3.1 deflections to DDV 2 and he’s grabbing you 2 steals to Dontes 1.1. Not to mention the fact that Spidas defensive rating this year is 111.5 to DDV 114.

All this to say - if we feel good about Dontes off ball shooting and gambling ways, we would feel even that much better with DM.

The galvanizing effect OG has on this team's defense may accrue to DM to some extent as well if he has active hands and plays help defense.

We immediately improved by removing a high usage player and adding another one, even a truly superior one to RJ, does not necessarily improve our offensive flow.

We probably need more off the ball players who go on scoring runs. Donte is one of those guys already.

The idea that we need a third scoring option gets overstated when the reality is we need enough depth in people capable of scoring 20+ on any given night so that when your either of your # 1 and 2 options are having an off game there is someone to step up.

You've already seen we have the highest scoring 1/2 option pair in the league. It is not always about adding another high volume scorer who must be fed too.

[mpharris36]

@MPH @ Melo

What I’m going to chime in with is this (and it’s not about Mikal).

The talk here is that Donovan would be too small. And while there is this part of me that feels that might be true, it could obviously work for reasons that are similar to how we’re currently constructed.

Donte is 6’4 - by no means is he a big 2 guard (an inch taller then DM) and if we’re being very fair - Donte loves to be aggressive and play the passing lanes but in reality Donovan actually does that better. He’s averaging 3.1 deflections to DDV 2 and he’s grabbing you 2 steals to Dontes 1.1. Not to mention the fact that Spidas defensive rating this year is 111.5 to DDV 114.

All this to say - if we feel good about Dontes off ball shooting and gambling ways, we would feel even that much better with DM.

I feel good with Donte in spurts...but over long periods the gambling (with Mitchell does a lot of) doesn't really play up in the playoffs especially for better competition that doesn't turn the ball over as much.

also teams will just spam the same play over and over again if they can exploit a weakness...again beggers can't be choosers....if Mitchell is available I would reach out and find the price.... but the same can be said about Mikal (if he is)...the nets are just meandering around and maybe there stance on Mikal changes.

The knicks clearly value winning culture as well and having the nova guys all together would be pretty cool. Mikal is in a shooting slump right now but he has a long track record of being a pretty good shooter. I just think he's being asked to do too much because the nets don't have a #1 option.

[Spree2Houston]

Mikal Bridges would elevate this team into title contenders

coming off the bench for OG?

He would start at SG

Brunson
Bridges
Anunoby
Randle
Mitch or Hart

Offense would still run through Brunson and Randle while Bridges and OG provide elite defense and floor spacing.

[Jalen Bluntson]

[cgf]

@MPH @ Melo

What I’m going to chime in with is this (and it’s not about Mikal).

The talk here is that Donovan would be too small. And while there is this part of me that feels that might be true, it could obviously work for reasons that are similar to how we’re currently constructed.

Donte is 6’4 - by no means is he a big 2 guard (an inch taller then DM) and if we’re being very fair - Donte loves to be aggressive and play the passing lanes but in reality Donovan actually does that better. He’s averaging 3.1 deflections to DDV 2 and he’s grabbing you 2 steals to Dontes 1.1. Not to mention the fact that Spidas defensive rating this year is 111.5 to DDV 114.

All this to say - if we feel good about Dontes off ball shooting and gambling ways, we would feel even that much better with DM.

And Donte doesn't have Mitchell's wingspan, or athleticism. So if the price was right and Mitchell was really fired up to be back home, I see the fit as a super up DDV/IQ hybrid.

I just still have my hesitation because Mitchell's improved defensive effort is still pretty new, he has been kinda lazy off the ball offensively, his postseason struggles are a thing to keep in mind, and I think the cost to get him could well be so high that we wouldn't then be able to afford to upgrade one of him, Brunson, or Randle to an MVP-caliber guy.

There would be cause for optimism though if it did happen, especially if he really wants to be a part of these Knicks, with Thibs running the show, super badly. A highly motivated Mitchell doing a lot of the things that Donte & Quickley have done for us, could really make the offense something special without undermining the defense

...especially if we could keep Grimes as our 3rd guard who rotated in whenever one of Brunson or Mitchell went to the bench.

[cgf]

I'm really getting sick of the disrespect on the GB. Do people still think these are the Isiah Knicks or something? Annoys the **** out of me. Can't wait stomp their teams.

TBF it's mostly the trollier posters on there or the west coast people who haven't seen us play much...especially Lakers trolls who think Julius is the same guy he was when he left LA.

A lot of the better posters on there are giving us respect as one of those teams that "better teams" won't want to play in the playoffs.