How close are the Knicks to Contention?

[MrDollarBills]

if randle flames out in the playoffs we are doomed anyway. Getting a potential 20 pt two way player would fit what we are trying to do without upsetting the apple card.

Mikal avg 23.5 ppg in the playoff series vs the sixers last year at 40% shooting. He also gives us a versatile wing that can defend multiple positions.

I'm not saying he is going to be available but things change...the Nets are is NBA purgatory right now.

Mikal Bridges would be an excellent fit on this roster. He is not a franchise player or some big time scorer, but it's not his fault that the Nets tried to paint him as something that he isn't. He's a #3 type. If you want elite perimeter defense, spacing and someone who can give you 16 to 21 pts within the flow of the offense, he is your guy.

He will give the Knicks what fans want to see out of Grimes, at a higher level. He would not take the ball out of JB and Randle's hands either.

which I think makes a lot of sense because we are cooking right now with Brunson and Randle doing much of the usage. Mikal would fit nicely into that #3 role and then him and OG would be death on teams on defense.

So even if Bridges isn't available, i think someone of that vein would be ideal. However, i think that another veteran ball handler will be needed for the post all star break stretch. So i think this team needs two more pieces, and the assets are there to obtain them.

[mpharris36]

Mikal Bridges would be an excellent fit on this roster. He is not a franchise player or some big time scorer, but it's not his fault that the Nets tried to paint him as something that he isn't. He's a #3 type. If you want elite perimeter defense, spacing and someone who can give you 16 to 21 pts within the flow of the offense, he is your guy.

He will give the Knicks what fans want to see out of Grimes, at a higher level. He would not take the ball out of JB and Randle's hands either.

which I think makes a lot of sense because we are cooking right now with Brunson and Randle doing much of the usage. Mikal would fit nicely into that #3 role and then him and OG would be death on teams on defense.

If we could somehow get Mikal you have to do it.

I think he is the perfect #3 option...two way...doesn't need to take a ton of shots to be effective on offense...him and OG would be a ton of fun as complimentary pieces to Brunson/Randle.

[mpharris36]

Mikal Bridges would be an excellent fit on this roster. He is not a franchise player or some big time scorer, but it's not his fault that the Nets tried to paint him as something that he isn't. He's a #3 type. If you want elite perimeter defense, spacing and someone who can give you 16 to 21 pts within the flow of the offense, he is your guy.

He will give the Knicks what fans want to see out of Grimes, at a higher level. He would not take the ball out of JB and Randle's hands either.

which I think makes a lot of sense because we are cooking right now with Brunson and Randle doing much of the usage. Mikal would fit nicely into that #3 role and then him and OG would be death on teams on defense.

So even if Bridges isn't available, i think someone of that vein would be ideal. However, i think that another veteran ball handler will be needed for the post all star break stretch. So i think this team needs two more pieces, and the assets are there to obtain them.

yeah there just aren't a lot of players of Mikal's two way quality. We are talking Dejoute Murray but he is not the defensive player that Mikal is. Dejounte brings a little more offensive fire punch and that backup ball handlers...but Mikal just screams winner way more than Dejounte.

[god shammgod]

too soon

[Ursusamericanus]

IMO we start being legit contenders starting with the 2024-2025 season. Still a piece or two away.

We still need someone to take over "creation" duties when JB sits. Whether that's the developing McBride or a more established Brogdon or Murray, someone will have to do it. Then we also need a solid backup big man - someone to fill in for Hartenstein and Randle when they sit, someone physical who will grab rebounds, block some shots, and not be a liability. If Mitch is back, then we're good, otherwise we may need someone like Capela or Drummond.

It's a bit of an odd comparison, but this feels a bit like our 1991-1992 season (first with Riley)... we've put the NBA on notice, have an identity (disciplined, hard-nosed, physical NY team), and will end up with a middle-upper seed, but are still a notch below the very top team (Boston now, Chicago then).

Finally, I still don't know what to make of Randle, and I'm not sure the FO does, either. He's been absolutely balling out since the slow start to the season, and is clearly an All-NBA/All-Star talent. He's matured a lot, obviously wants to win a title for the Knicks, and is also more efficient this year, which should translate to better playoff production. But we'll see how it goes when the time comes. I think they want to give him this playoff run to determine whether he sticks around as a piece of the championship-contending Knicks or if we'll swap him for another 4. Personally, I'm a believer and think we can win one with him as our 4.

Our ceiling right now is 3rd seed and ECF, in my opinion. I will be proud and impressed if the team manages that this season. Once we fill those two needs (backup small and backup big), I think we're as good as anyone, and we'll have a strong championship window for 2025, 2026, and 2027.

[3toheadmelo]

no real concerned they got swept. We all know Mikal can't be the best player on a playoff contending team.

And have some confidence in your guy! If you really believe Randle is going to flame out we should move him now. If we go into the playoffs with Mikal as a #3 option that will do wonders to his EFF.

do you think mikal turns us into a championship contender?

I think Mikal absolutely puts us on par with BOS and MIL...yes...or at least very very close.

Especially because it also really improves our defense...and instead of being a #1 option Mikal goes to being a #3...he will have to shoulder less burden on shot creation and focus on scoring and defense.

imo i disagree that this puts us on par with boston. boston has 3 guys who score 20+ effortlessly. and they have jrue holiday who can score 20 on any given night.. same for derrick white. boston has way too much firepower. i just think we need one more big time scorer if we want to be in the same conversation as them.

[cgf]

dejounte murray hasn't been good on defense in years. thats the problem. and he is probably going to be expensive since mad teams will want him.

this. murray is a gambler on defense. might work out here with og being the anchor but he’s not a man on man shut down defender some think he is.

if we going after a weak defender at the 2 you might as well go all in on donovan mitchell who's 10x better on offense. i don't think dejounte turns us into contenders. he not nice like that.

According to the advanced metrics, Mitchell's actually a better defender this season than all of Murray / Booker / Lavine / Brunson / Randle. All of those guys are varying stages of negatives while Spida is a neutral...granted he's been defending a lot more ones with Garland out and previously he was just as bad as Booker / Lavine / Brunson / Randle, but he's never been as bad as Murray.

But still interesting to see Spida starting to remember that in college he had a defensive reputation. I think I'm warming to the idea that Mitchell-Brunson could be like a rich man's Quickley-Brunson...although I still have concerns that he's too stationary offensively when he's off the ball.

[3toheadmelo]

but if you add his defense with og on the perimeter

and then the combo of those two with hart, divi, and mcbride on defense is pretty nuts

defense would be good but we still need another reliable scorer. i wouldn't count on mikal

sadly og isn’t either, but he doesn’t have to be

we need mikal to be if he's our last piece

[mpharris36]

do you think mikal turns us into a championship contender?

I think Mikal absolutely puts us on par with BOS and MIL...yes...or at least very very close.

Especially because it also really improves our defense...and instead of being a #1 option Mikal goes to being a #3...he will have to shoulder less burden on shot creation and focus on scoring and defense.

imo i disagree that this puts us on par with boston. boston has 3 guys who score 20+ effortlessly. and they have jrue holiday who can score 20 on any given night.. same for derrick white. boston has way too much firepower. i just think we need one more big time scorer if we want to be in the same conversation as them.

but most of the big time scorers are also sh*tty defenders...sure Spida gives us another key cog on offense but Brunson/Mitchell backcourt is food defensively especially for the celtics they would be putting Brown and Tatum is P&R to get the Brunson Mitchell mismatch all day.

I'm not even sure what scorer you are referencing. I know you have been interested in Mitchell. Who else is out there that you think puts us over the top?

[cgf]

which I think makes a lot of sense because we are cooking right now with Brunson and Randle doing much of the usage. Mikal would fit nicely into that #3 role and then him and OG would be death on teams on defense.

If we could somehow get Mikal you have to do it.

I think he is the perfect #3 option...two way...doesn't need to take a ton of shots to be effective on offense...him and OG would be a ton of fun as complimentary pieces to Brunson/Randle.

I think Mikal is the perfect #3 if your #1 is an MVP caliber creator. If your #1 is just a 2nd/3rd team All-NBA caliber guy, then I think your 3rd option needs to be a better creator than Bridges.

[mpharris36]

If we could somehow get Mikal you have to do it.

I think he is the perfect #3 option...two way...doesn't need to take a ton of shots to be effective on offense...him and OG would be a ton of fun as complimentary pieces to Brunson/Randle.

I think Mikal is the perfect #3 if your #1 is an MVP caliber creator. If your #1 is just a 2nd/3rd team All-NBA caliber guy, then I think your 3rd option needs to be a better creator than Bridges.

there aren't many better #1 options in the playoffs that Brunson...he has proven that the last two years.

[3toheadmelo]

this. murray is a gambler on defense. might work out here with og being the anchor but he’s not a man on man shut down defender some think he is.

if we going after a weak defender at the 2 you might as well go all in on donovan mitchell who's 10x better on offense. i don't think dejounte turns us into contenders. he not nice like that.

According to the advanced metrics, Mitchell's actually a better defender this season than all of Murray / Booker / Lavine / Brunson / Randle. All of those guys are varying stages of negatives while Spida is a neutral...granted he's been defending a lot more ones with Garland out and previously he was just as bad as Booker / Lavine / Brunson / Randle, but he's never been as bad as Murray.

But still interesting to see Spida starting to remember that in college he had a defensive reputation. I think I'm warming to the idea that Mitchell-Brunson could be like a rich man's Quickley-Brunson...although I still have concerns that he's too stationary offensively when he's off the ball.

yes donovan mitchell has become better on defense. last year he made strives and he's building on it. mitchell is my #1 target at the moment. but the cavs dont want to move him so hes probably unrealistic

[cgf]

I think he is the perfect #3 option...two way...doesn't need to take a ton of shots to be effective on offense...him and OG would be a ton of fun as complimentary pieces to Brunson/Randle.

I think Mikal is the perfect #3 if your #1 is an MVP caliber creator. If your #1 is just a 2nd/3rd team All-NBA caliber guy, then I think your 3rd option needs to be a better creator than Bridges.

there aren't many better #1 options in the playoffs that Brunson...he has proven that the last two years.

Yep, and I still don't think he's good enough to get away with Bridges as your #3 unless you have a Quickley/Poole on your bench who is your real 3rd creator, or your #2 is just as good as Brunson in the playoffs.

[mpharris36]

I think Mikal is the perfect #3 if your #1 is an MVP caliber creator. If your #1 is just a 2nd/3rd team All-NBA caliber guy, then I think your 3rd option needs to be a better creator than Bridges.

there aren't many better #1 options in the playoffs that Brunson...he has proven that the last two years.

Yep, and I still don't think he's good enough to get away with Bridges as your #3 unless you have a Quickley/Poole on your bench who is your real 3rd creator, or your #2 is just as good as Brunson in the playoffs.

Randle going to get a ton of usage...that is who he is...we will run him in the post a lot and that is our secondary offense...for him to make the right play out of the post to find shooters.

[3toheadmelo]

I think Mikal absolutely puts us on par with BOS and MIL...yes...or at least very very close.

Especially because it also really improves our defense...and instead of being a #1 option Mikal goes to being a #3...he will have to shoulder less burden on shot creation and focus on scoring and defense.

imo i disagree that this puts us on par with boston. boston has 3 guys who score 20+ effortlessly. and they have jrue holiday who can score 20 on any given night.. same for derrick white. boston has way too much firepower. i just think we need one more big time scorer if we want to be in the same conversation as them.

but most of the big time scorers are also sh*tty defenders...sure Spida gives us another key cog on offense but Brunson/Mitchell backcourt is food defensively especially for the celtics they would be putting Brown and Tatum is P&R to get the Brunson Mitchell mismatch all day.

I'm not even sure what scorer you are referencing. I know you have been interested in Mitchell. Who else is out there that you think puts us over the top?

donovan mitchell isn't that bad on defense anymore. you can live with him at the 2. cavs were still a top 5 defense last year with a garland and brunson back court.

you wait for donovan mitchell in the off season. or someone else of that tier who becomes available. the og trade allows us to be patient now and we can build up deuce's and grimes value in the mean time.

[Chanel Bomber]

no way yall thirsty for this man

Read on Twitter

he's having a bad stretch, im not judging anyone on a 10 game sample size...if anything maybe we can get him cheaper

[cgf]

if we going after a weak defender at the 2 you might as well go all in on donovan mitchell who's 10x better on offense. i don't think dejounte turns us into contenders. he not nice like that.

According to the advanced metrics, Mitchell's actually a better defender this season than all of Murray / Booker / Lavine / Brunson / Randle. All of those guys are varying stages of negatives while Spida is a neutral...granted he's been defending a lot more ones with Garland out and previously he was just as bad as Booker / Lavine / Brunson / Randle, but he's never been as bad as Murray.

But still interesting to see Spida starting to remember that in college he had a defensive reputation. I think I'm warming to the idea that Mitchell-Brunson could be like a rich man's Quickley-Brunson...although I still have concerns that he's too stationary offensively when he's off the ball.

yes donovan mitchell has become better on defense. last year he made strives and he's building on it. mitchell is my #1 target at the moment. but the cavs dont want to move him so hes probably unrealistic

I'm not sure he's enough to be our final move even if I'm warming to it / trying to talk myself into him. Even last year he wasn't much better than Randle & co., and he only hit neutral this season. So I have to wonder how much of that improvement this year has come from Garland being out, which wouldn't really help us if the idea is to play him & Brunson together.

Which is why I loop back to cost. For that final piece you have to go all out, but for that penultimate move, you have to make sure you can still afford that final move. So for me it all comes down to how much more Mitchell would cost than other options...like if they'd take DDV, Fournier, our 24 FRP, and all of our protected picks, I'd be a lot more excited than if we had to give up multiple future unprotected FRPs + Grimes.

[Clyde_Style]

Agreed on both points. All the scoring bruden though now (aside from great shooting nights like the Philly game) is on Brun and Julius.

Give me the guy that helps 2 positions both offensively and defensively and takes becomes a bonfide consistent dynamic 3rd scorer for the team.

That's Murray.

LaVine just too expensive a contract but Id consider him too if we kept most our picks.

dejounte murray hasn't been good on defense in years. thats the problem. and he is probably going to be expensive since mad teams will want him.

this. murray is a gambler on defense. might work out here with og being the anchor but he’s not a man on man shut down defender some think he is.

That guy you're describing is Grimes

[Clyde_Style]

Mikal Bridges would elevate this team into title contenders

coming off the bench for OG?

[mpharris36]

imo i disagree that this puts us on par with boston. boston has 3 guys who score 20+ effortlessly. and they have jrue holiday who can score 20 on any given night.. same for derrick white. boston has way too much firepower. i just think we need one more big time scorer if we want to be in the same conversation as them.

but most of the big time scorers are also sh*tty defenders...sure Spida gives us another key cog on offense but Brunson/Mitchell backcourt is food defensively especially for the celtics they would be putting Brown and Tatum is P&R to get the Brunson Mitchell mismatch all day.

I'm not even sure what scorer you are referencing. I know you have been interested in Mitchell. Who else is out there that you think puts us over the top?

donovan mitchell isn't that bad on defense anymore. you can live with him at the 2. cavs were still a top 5 defense last year with a garland and brunson back court.

you wait for donovan mitchell in the off season. or someone else of that tier who becomes available. the og trade allows us to be patient now and we can build up deuce's and grimes value in the mean time.

I'm still not sold on the brunson/mitchell fit...I watched last post season and donovan mitchell didn't play a lick of defense vs us. I am a big mitchell fan when he's a #1 type option and you can supplement him with defenders. But I am not sold on that fit long term with Brunson...