Upcoming Hartenstein free agency

[Phish Tank]

As mentioned IHart is CAA. We'll pay him a fair amount.... 4/$80M. Also, we won't regret it. He's become a huge part of our offense and our defense and we will have him for his formative prime years. He only turns 26 on May. Do the Achilles issues worry me? Only slightly. I think we'll have enough depth to better manage those mins anyways.

I doubt he's leaving NY.

[douggood]

As mentioned IHart is CAA. We'll pay him a fair amount.... 4/$80M. Also, we won't regret it. He's become a huge part of our offense and our defense and we will have him for his formative prime years. He only turns 26 on May. Do the Achilles issues worry me? Only slightly. I think we'll have enough depth to better manage those mins anyways.

I doubt he's leaving NY.

max knicks can pay is
175% of current salary + 8% raises = apx $73 mil max for 4 years

[Ursusamericanus]

Ihart seems like a guy who would take less money to stay on the Knicks.

based on what?

Yeah, I'm not sure I see it. It's a business and he'll do what's best for him and his family. I am a bit concerned that he leaves for a better offer elsewhere.

Obviously, he fits here like a glove and is extremely popular among the fanbase and his teammates, and has a legitimate chance to win a title in NY, but he'll have a lot of money thrown at him by various teams.

[Stannis]

I'm betting that he and OG both get their 1+1 max.

[nykballa2k4]

Huh?

Anyway, you always like to change topics and argue points that have nothing to do with the OP so, I will put the discussion back on course again.

RJ/IQ wish they were still here. No one wants to leave this team. I am not worried about iHart at all.

Grant has made it known in the past they he prefers to play for black head coaches. This was something in Detroit and has been pretty consistent since that point. he just extended with a team with a black head coach
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2022/02/10/detroit-pistons-jerami-grant-nba/6712738001/

Grant stunned many when he left the title contending Denver Nuggets to sign a three-year, $60 million deal with the Pistons in 2020 free agency, citing the desire for a bigger role and the desire to play for a Black coach and Black GM in a Black city. Grant and Weaver worked together previously in Oklahoma City.

As you said back to the topic:
I think RJ is happy to be home. If he were here he'd have to deal with all of the non-sense that we were spewing his way. If Raptors are .500 he is going to be a hometown hero.
IQ I think is going to be upset because he wants to BE Brunson not be his back up or play for a less-energized city.
IHart- comparatively, I think would like to stay here and I am going to remain optimistic that something gets done. OTOH this management team has shown the ability to dust off other teams cast-aways or use late picks to get rotation/starting level centers.
All of Mitch, iHart, Precious, Sims have looked formidable.

Stop it bro. If you don't think RJ/IQ wish they were still here to enjoy this then you're a fool or a troll. Take your pick. You are literally just arguing to argue with a bunch of BS like you always do. I enjoy our sparring sessions but, fuq that. Every player in the league would love to be a part of this. Don't kid yourself. Don't lie. Don't bring up Philly. Just stop it.

Before you come back with, well if they were here we wouldn't be winning like this....just drop it. Whatever your response is will be FOS because I all but guarantee they both cried when traded!

RJ may have cried tears of joy. I can't speak to IQ.
IQ did make that statement about being told "have fun" and how enlightening that was.

[Context]

Since you guys are going to dicuss Iharts contract situation. Can somebody tell me theoredically
how many of our current knick contracts can the knicks go over the cap for? So for example
let pretend that we want to keep everyone-who can we go over the cap for and what would our total salary be including all players and luxury tax too?

[sol537]

As mentioned IHart is CAA. We'll pay him a fair amount.... 4/$80M. Also, we won't regret it. He's become a huge part of our offense and our defense and we will have him for his formative prime years. He only turns 26 on May. Do the Achilles issues worry me? Only slightly. I think we'll have enough depth to better manage those mins anyways.

I doubt he's leaving NY.

max knicks can pay is
175% of current salary + 8% raises = apx $73 mil max for 4 years

Yup... you lock iHart up (few teams would go much higher than that and iHart loves it here as does his wife it seems)... then you give Precious a raise and lock him up for 3-4 years. OG, you of course lock up as well for 4-5 years. Having your core guys be winners & defensive guys is a dream come true.

Note: We'd have to trade Mitch at some point which is fine because he has value around the league.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Grant has made it known in the past they he prefers to play for black head coaches. This was something in Detroit and has been pretty consistent since that point. he just extended with a team with a black head coach
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2022/02/10/detroit-pistons-jerami-grant-nba/6712738001/


As you said back to the topic:
I think RJ is happy to be home. If he were here he'd have to deal with all of the non-sense that we were spewing his way. If Raptors are .500 he is going to be a hometown hero.
IQ I think is going to be upset because he wants to BE Brunson not be his back up or play for a less-energized city.
IHart- comparatively, I think would like to stay here and I am going to remain optimistic that something gets done. OTOH this management team has shown the ability to dust off other teams cast-aways or use late picks to get rotation/starting level centers.
All of Mitch, iHart, Precious, Sims have looked formidable.

Stop it bro. If you don't think RJ/IQ wish they were still here to enjoy this then you're a fool or a troll. Take your pick. You are literally just arguing to argue with a bunch of BS like you always do. I enjoy our sparring sessions but, fuq that. Every player in the league would love to be a part of this. Don't kid yourself. Don't lie. Don't bring up Philly. Just stop it.

Before you come back with, well if they were here we wouldn't be winning like this....just drop it. Whatever your response is will be FOS because I all but guarantee they both cried when traded!

RJ may have cried tears of joy. I can't speak to IQ.
IQ did make that statement about being told "have fun" and how enlightening that was.

Yeah. IOW they both wish they were still here.

Players all over the league are talking about how they would like to play here. Big difference from 4 years ago. Seeing the love that players like Taj get. The explosion of cheers for Jalen that made him tear up. I'm sure that has a lot to do with a lifelong dream of his but, players see it. Players wish they could get that love in opposing arenas across the league. It's a different landscape from the joke we were. You even see BSPN/TNT having to come around on there tired old mock the Knicks routines. Stephen A playing the Go NY Go NY Go BS. As much as he's still a disgrace to the Orange and Blue blood that runs through our veins, even he has to give up some of his battered fan schtick now. Still a clueless boo boo the fool hack but, yeah.

Everyone wants to be a part of this!!! They can all suck a dick!

[Ghetto Gospel]

Give him whatever he wants, find the money somewhere

i'll chip in $5 if the knicks start a gofundme for him to get his money

[Jeff Van Gully]

I'm betting that he and OG both get their 1+1 max.

Previously discussed that Hartenstein is not eligible for a 1+1. It has to be at least 2 years sans options.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I'm betting that he and OG both get their 1+1 max.

Previously discussed that Hartenstein is not eligible for a 1+1. It has to be at least 2 years sans options.

OG picks up the QO.
iHart accepts at LEAST the 2 year max we can offer.
Leon goes ham and we win multiple titles!
The End

[Jeff Van Gully]

Stop it bro. If you don't think RJ/IQ wish they were still here to enjoy this then you're a fool or a troll. Take your pick. You are literally just arguing to argue with a bunch of BS like you always do. I enjoy our sparring sessions but, fuq that. Every player in the league would love to be a part of this. Don't kid yourself. Don't lie. Don't bring up Philly. Just stop it.

Before you come back with, well if they were here we wouldn't be winning like this....just drop it. Whatever your response is will be FOS because I all but guarantee they both cried when traded!

RJ may have cried tears of joy. I can't speak to IQ.
IQ did make that statement about being told "have fun" and how enlightening that was.

Yeah. IOW they both wish they were still here.

Players all over the league are talking about how they would like to play here. Big difference from 4 years ago. Seeing the love that players like Taj get. The explosion of cheers for Jalen that made him tear up. I'm sure that has a lot to do with a lifelong dream of his but, players see it. Players wish they could get that love in opposing arenas across the league. It's a different landscape from the joke we were. You even see BSPN/TNT having to come around on there tired old mock the Knicks routines. Stephen A playing the Go NY Go NY Go BS. As much as he's still a disgrace to the Orange and Blue blood that runs through our veins, even he has to give up some of his battered fan schtick now. Still a clueless boo boo the fool hack but, yeah.

Everyone wants to be a part of this!!! They can all suck a dick!

Enough derailing.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I think iHart takes a two year deal and we kick the can down the road. He doesn't want to leave here. This team seems to have a serious bond and that should count for something. iHart has a "chronic" Achilles condition so, how many teams are gonna throw max money at that anyway? He's not Embiid/Jokic level player.

[Jalen Bluntson]

RJ may have cried tears of joy. I can't speak to IQ.
IQ did make that statement about being told "have fun" and how enlightening that was.

Yeah. IOW they both wish they were still here.

Players all over the league are talking about how they would like to play here. Big difference from 4 years ago. Seeing the love that players like Taj get. The explosion of cheers for Jalen that made him tear up. I'm sure that has a lot to do with a lifelong dream of his but, players see it. Players wish they could get that love in opposing arenas across the league. It's a different landscape from the joke we were. You even see BSPN/TNT having to come around on there tired old mock the Knicks routines. Stephen A playing the Go NY Go NY Go BS. As much as he's still a disgrace to the Orange and Blue blood that runs through our veins, even he has to give up some of his battered fan schtick now. Still a clueless boo boo the fool hack but, yeah.

Everyone wants to be a part of this!!! They can all suck a dick!

Enough derailing.

Yeah...you tell him!

[moocow007]

Not sure about what he'll get on the open market but the max the Knicks will be able to resign him for is a contract starting at $16,178,961 with annual increases in year 2 through 5 of $17,473,278; $18,871,141; $20,380,832 and $22,011,299. That comes to a max of 5 years $94,915,511 (give or take a dollar or two). The AAV is $18.98 million.

For comparisons the max contract given out this previous offseason to a free agent center was a 4 year $78 million contract (Raptors resigning Jacob Poetl). That's a AAV of $19.5 million. After that was Brook Lopez at 2 years $48 million (Bucks resigning him). That's a high AAV ($24 million per) but I think that was just the Bucks showing their appreciation for what Lopez has meant to them (not like they can do anything with the savings anyway to sign anyone else). No other center go a contract above $8 million AAV. Both Poetl and Lopez's contracts IMO are exceptions (I do think the Raptors overpayed a bit for Poetl) not the norm IMO.

The year before that DeAndre Ayton got a 4 year $133 million contract but Hartenstein isn't in that category. After that it was Nurkic at 4 years $70 million and Mitch at 4 years $60 million. No one else was even close after that. You could get a team desperate for a center but Im not sure if theres any team that will go above $19 million AAV for Hartenstein to be honest.

I read somewhere 14.5 million is the max starting salary we could offer. I mean 4years/94mill. would be super competitive, but 4 years/70 million is actually also not bad. I thought the Max we could offer was 4years/60million.

Does anyone have the real figure? Is it 4/70 or 4/94?

From what I understand the max starting salary a team can give him is 175% or his current year’s salary.

This is from nba.com explanation of Early Bird salary:

Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (aka “Early Bird”) Exception: A team may re-sign its own free agent to a contract with a first-year salary of up to the greater of (a) 175% of the player's salary in the last season of his prior contract, or (b) 105% of the average player salary for the prior season, if he played for ...

Hartensteins base salary is currently $8,195,121. He has an incentive bonus of $1,050,000. Total cap hit of $9,245,121. So the starting salary would be 1.75 x either of those 2 numbers (not sure which though i would assume it’s the smaller base number. That would be $14,341,471 (my previous numbers were wrong I was looking at someone else’s salary for this year lol). With 8% increases per year it would mean $15,488,779 in year 2, $16,727,881 in year 3, $18,066,112 in year 4 and if they are allowed to give him a 5th year $19,511,400.

[aggo]

I think Moocow and Doug have correctly covered our & iHart's options in the summer.


I'm not sure what he will do but:

without inside knowledge about what iHart looks like in the gym at practice, I'm not sure someone's gonna blow us out of the water and offer something like over 20mm starting AAV.

because he's shown less offensive potential than Poetl in actual games. and it's a hard sell and quite a gamble to offer him 20m a year when he hasn't even averaged 10 points a game or 30mpg which Poetl has for several years before he got his contract. same for Jusuf.

the worst case scenario for keeping him I see is some bottom feeding team offering him a bruce brown type contract. meaning something like a 2yr/45m deal where they ask him to shoot threes and keep his defense elite.



so I think he'll just take the 4/73 max or 80 or 90 however the fine print shakes, but I can see him being offered several prove it deals from several other teams 2/40 or 3/60 with a team option on the third year.



and quite frankly I am not all that enthused about the idea of trading Mitch despite all the trolling I do about it. I've long maintained that Mitch's best position is backup C where he has even greater physical dominance over other teams' backup front courts and his non existent offensive gravity and negative spacing becomes a non-issue.

[nykballa2k4]

Stop it bro. If you don't think RJ/IQ wish they were still here to enjoy this then you're a fool or a troll. Take your pick. You are literally just arguing to argue with a bunch of BS like you always do. I enjoy our sparring sessions but, fuq that. Every player in the league would love to be a part of this. Don't kid yourself. Don't lie. Don't bring up Philly. Just stop it.

Before you come back with, well if they were here we wouldn't be winning like this....just drop it. Whatever your response is will be FOS because I all but guarantee they both cried when traded!

RJ may have cried tears of joy. I can't speak to IQ.
IQ did make that statement about being told "have fun" and how enlightening that was.

Yeah. IOW they both wish they were still here.

Players all over the league are talking about how they would like to play here. Big difference from 4 years ago. Seeing the love that players like Taj get. The explosion of cheers for Jalen that made him tear up. I'm sure that has a lot to do with a lifelong dream of his but, players see it. Players wish they could get that love in opposing arenas across the league. It's a different landscape from the joke we were. You even see BSPN/TNT having to come around on there tired old mock the Knicks routines. Stephen A playing the Go NY Go NY Go BS. As much as he's still a disgrace to the Orange and Blue blood that runs through our veins, even he has to give up some of his battered fan schtick now. Still a clueless boo boo the fool hack but, yeah.

Everyone wants to be a part of this!!! They can all suck a dick!

There are some guys - like Kyrie - who want to do things on their terms despite that the current situation to most would be appealing.

It is going to be hard to say what big Hart wants. he may test the market. If someone makes him a godfather offer -- he is going to have to take it. I think if it's us for 5 mil less he will do the 1:1 strategy and gamble on his health.

[Jalen Bluntson]

RJ may have cried tears of joy. I can't speak to IQ.
IQ did make that statement about being told "have fun" and how enlightening that was.

Yeah. IOW they both wish they were still here.

Players all over the league are talking about how they would like to play here. Big difference from 4 years ago. Seeing the love that players like Taj get. The explosion of cheers for Jalen that made him tear up. I'm sure that has a lot to do with a lifelong dream of his but, players see it. Players wish they could get that love in opposing arenas across the league. It's a different landscape from the joke we were. You even see BSPN/TNT having to come around on there tired old mock the Knicks routines. Stephen A playing the Go NY Go NY Go BS. As much as he's still a disgrace to the Orange and Blue blood that runs through our veins, even he has to give up some of his battered fan schtick now. Still a clueless boo boo the fool hack but, yeah.

Everyone wants to be a part of this!!! They can all suck a dick!

There are some guys - like Kyrie - who want to do things on their terms despite that the current situation to most would be appealing.

It is going to be hard to say what big Hart wants. he may test the market. If someone makes him a godfather offer -- he is going to have to take it. I think if it's us for 5 mil less he will do the 1:1 strategy and gamble on his health.

In the end money talks but, I don't see teams lining up to offer him some tremendous max deal with his injury history. I also think the bond with his teammates and the love the garden shows this team is attractive enough to get him to take a 2 year deal from us to stay. We are on the cusp of great things and he's a big part of it. That has to hold weight as well.

[Phish Tank]

I think Moocow and Doug have correctly covered our & iHart's options in the summer.


I'm not sure what he will do but:

without inside knowledge about what iHart looks like in the gym at practice, I'm not sure someone's gonna blow us out of the water and offer something like over 20mm starting AAV.

because he's shown less offensive potential than Poetl in actual games. and it's a hard sell and quite a gamble to offer him 20m a year when he hasn't even averaged 10 points a game or 30mpg which Poetl has for several years before he got his contract. same for Jusuf.

the worst case scenario for keeping him I see is some bottom feeding team offering him a bruce brown type contract. meaning something like a 2yr/45m deal where they ask him to shoot threes and keep his defense elite.



so I think he'll just take the 4/73 max or 80 or 90 however the fine print shakes, but I can see him being offered several prove it deals from several other teams 2/40 or 3/60 with a team option on the third year.



and quite frankly I am not all that enthused about the idea of trading Mitch despite all the trolling I do about it. I've long maintained that Mitch's best position is backup C where he has even greater physical dominance over other teams' backup front courts and his non existent offensive gravity and negative spacing becomes a non-issue.

As of now, there are only 7 teams that even have cap space heading into the summer. They are:

San Antonio Spurs
Orlando Magic
Utah Jazz
Charlotte Hornets
Detroit Pistons
Philadelphia 76ers
Washington Wizards

Of those 7, the 76ers makes no sense and the Jazz may just give Kessler the full reigns as their starting 5 next season.

Of the remaining 5, it really doesn't make sense for IHart to chase the money and join a losing squad. Nor would they want him as he elevates their floor. That takes the Hornets, Pistons, & Wizards out.

That leaves the Magic & Spurs. The Magic are interesting, but I think we just offer more upside. Also, they have WCJ and others right now. The Spurs? I dare them to try to overpay someone. I highly doubt it.

[Context]

I think Moocow and Doug have correctly covered our & iHart's options in the summer.


I'm not sure what he will do but:

without inside knowledge about what iHart looks like in the gym at practice, I'm not sure someone's gonna blow us out of the water and offer something like over 20mm starting AAV.

because he's shown less offensive potential than Poetl in actual games. and it's a hard sell and quite a gamble to offer him 20m a year when he hasn't even averaged 10 points a game or 30mpg which Poetl has for several years before he got his contract. same for Jusuf.

the worst case scenario for keeping him I see is some bottom feeding team offering him a bruce brown type contract. meaning something like a 2yr/45m deal where they ask him to shoot threes and keep his defense elite.



so I think he'll just take the 4/73 max or 80 or 90 however the fine print shakes, but I can see him being offered several prove it deals from several other teams 2/40 or 3/60 with a team option on the third year.



and quite frankly I am not all that enthused about the idea of trading Mitch despite all the trolling I do about it. I've long maintained that Mitch's best position is backup C where he has even greater physical dominance over other teams' backup front courts and his non existent offensive gravity and negative spacing becomes a non-issue.

As of now, there are only 7 teams that even have cap space heading into the summer. They are:

San Antonio Spurs
Orlando Magic
Utah Jazz
Charlotte Hornets
Detroit Pistons
Philadelphia 76ers
Washington Wizards

Of those 7, the 76ers makes no sense and the Jazz may just give Kessler the full reigns as their starting 5 next season.

Of the remaining 5, it really doesn't make sense for IHart to chase the money and join a losing squad. Nor would they want him as he elevates their floor. That takes the Hornets, Pistons, & Wizards out.

That leaves the Magic & Spurs. The Magic are interesting, but I think we just offer more upside. Also, they have WCJ and others right now. The Spurs? I dare them to try to overpay someone. I highly doubt it.

I think when you have an MVP caliber player like Brunson who is very humble, has great relations with his teammates- you stay for 80 million rather than chase 120 million somewhere else...
This Knick team is a special team. I think all of the guys feel this... If I'm IHart I stay for 80million in this city instead of greed
to a new team. Whatever our top offer will be- I think it will be more than enough for Ihart and his family.