Woj: Knicks trade for Alec Burks and Bojan Bogdanovich

[Knicksfan1992]

Obviously it is too early to make a judgement about this trade and all players involved have their strengths and weaknesses. It will take time for everyone to become comfortable and find their roles. I'm just trying to understand what people in favor of this trade envisioned for Bojan and Burks.

I thought part of the appeal of Bojan was his natural scoring ability and the fact that he scored 20+ points on great efficiency in Detroit. I assumed people thought he could carry a large scoring role but now I see people saying we need to wait until we have a full roster before we can really see what he is capable of. In Detroit he was not surrounded by a ton of highly skilled players so shouldn't his scoring abilities be able to translate to the Knicks despite all of their injuries? Now people are talking about him as a catch and shoot guy playing off of Brunson and Randle but that was not a problem the team had after the OG trade.

I shouldn't sit here and continuously complain about the trade. What's done is done but there were a couple things I was hoping would be positives of this trade. I was hoping Burks and Bojan could outplay opposing team's bench units without Brunson. So far that has not happened. I was also hoping their addition would reduce everyone's minutes under 40. That has not happened either.

It's still early but it is worth monitoring that Bojan's minutes have gone from the low 30's in the first game to the mid 20's to the teens in the last game. Maybe they are trying to keep him healthy after an injury. Maybe his minutes are matchup dependent. Maybe Thibs has not liked what he has seen. I don't know but as a veteran front court player on a team with their entire starting front court out and iHart playing limited minutes you would think he would be needed to play now more than ever. If his minutes are low now what will happen when Thibs actually has other options?

People are just coping and moving the goalposts.

You are absolutely right that these guys were partly brought in to keep the team afloat throughout the injuries, not just stand in the corner for 15 mpg when/if everyone is back. That’s about the minutes they’re playing now even with guys out.

So far the trade has been a disaster. The plus minus and net ratings of Bojan and Alec are off the charts bad. Their defense is nonexistent and their offense hasn’t been any better than Grimes and Fournier.

We have no choice but to give em more time but I dont like what Im seeing at all now. They’re due to get hot eventually, but when they aren’t hot they are brutal.

We're coping and moving the goalposts because we're not willing to call a trade a "disaster" after less than 5 games That's a joke of an analysis tbh.

Also what version of Grimes and Fournier were you watching this season? Grimes was non-existent offensively this season. Scared to shoot or really do anything outside of shuttle the ball around for a majority of the season. Being a good shooter is only useful if you're willing to shoot.... It's why he lost his spot to DVo even though his defense is better. Our offense stalled because our "shooter" was a deer in headlights out there for the majority of his minutes.

Also Fournier has been a disaster for the past 2 seasons

[cgmw]

Obviously it is too early to make a judgement about this trade and all players involved have their strengths and weaknesses. It will take time for everyone to become comfortable and find their roles. I'm just trying to understand what people in favor of this trade envisioned for Bojan and Burks.

I thought part of the appeal of Bojan was his natural scoring ability and the fact that he scored 20+ points on great efficiency in Detroit. I assumed people thought he could carry a large scoring role but now I see people saying we need to wait until we have a full roster before we can really see what he is capable of. In Detroit he was not surrounded by a ton of highly skilled players so shouldn't his scoring abilities be able to translate to the Knicks despite all of their injuries? Now people are talking about him as a catch and shoot guy playing off of Brunson and Randle but that was not a problem the team had after the OG trade.

I shouldn't sit here and continuously complain about the trade. What's done is done but there were a couple things I was hoping would be positives of this trade. I was hoping Burks and Bojan could outplay opposing team's bench units without Brunson. So far that has not happened. I was also hoping their addition would reduce everyone's minutes under 40. That has not happened either.

It's still early but it is worth monitoring that Bojan's minutes have gone from the low 30's in the first game to the mid 20's to the teens in the last game. Maybe they are trying to keep him healthy after an injury. Maybe his minutes are matchup dependent. Maybe Thibs has not liked what he has seen. I don't know but as a veteran front court player on a team with their entire starting front court out and iHart playing limited minutes you would think he would be needed to play now more than ever. If his minutes are low now what will happen when Thibs actually has other options?

People are just coping and moving the goalposts.

You are absolutely right that these guys were partly brought in to keep the team afloat throughout the injuries, not just stand in the corner for 15 mpg when/if everyone is back. That’s about the minutes they’re playing now even with guys out.

So far the trade has been a disaster. The plus minus and net ratings of Bojan and Alec are off the charts bad. Their defense is nonexistent and their offense hasn’t been any better than Grimes and Fournier.

We have no choice but to give em more time but I dont like what Im seeing at all now. They’re due to get hot eventually, but when they aren’t hot they are brutal.

We're coping and moving the goalposts because we're not willing to call a trade a "disaster" after less than 5 games That's a joke of an analysis tbh.

Also what version of Grimes and Fournier were you watching this season? Grimes was non-existent offensively this season. Scared to shoot or really do anything outside of shuttle the ball around for a majority of the season. Being a good shooter is only useful if you're willing to shoot.... It's why he lost his spot to DVo even though his defense is better. Our offense stalled because our "shooter" was a deer in headlights out there for the majority of his minutes.

Also Fournier has been a disaster for the past 2 seasons

The bigger reality is that message board heroes love hoping for their draft picks and now feel butthurt by the adults in the FO confirming that Grimes had no future here. Bogey and Burks are easy escape goats.

IMO Thibs gave up on Grimes probably the minute Grimes spoke out in the media. And once Thibs is done with you he’s done with you.

Bogey and Burks are a solution to the problem created by the OG trade, which was compounded by OG getting injured. At worst, it’s a reasonable gamble with very limited downside. At best, it could be the push needed to sneak into the ECF. Time will tell.

One thing’s for damn sure, Grimes wasn’t preventing this 5 game slide with our entire front court hurt.

[TrueWarrior]

People are just coping and moving the goalposts.

You are absolutely right that these guys were partly brought in to keep the team afloat throughout the injuries, not just stand in the corner for 15 mpg when/if everyone is back. That’s about the minutes they’re playing now even with guys out.

So far the trade has been a disaster. The plus minus and net ratings of Bojan and Alec are off the charts bad. Their defense is nonexistent and their offense hasn’t been any better than Grimes and Fournier.

We have no choice but to give em more time but I dont like what Im seeing at all now. They’re due to get hot eventually, but when they aren’t hot they are brutal.

We're coping and moving the goalposts because we're not willing to call a trade a "disaster" after less than 5 games That's a joke of an analysis tbh.

Also what version of Grimes and Fournier were you watching this season? Grimes was non-existent offensively this season. Scared to shoot or really do anything outside of shuttle the ball around for a majority of the season. Being a good shooter is only useful if you're willing to shoot.... It's why he lost his spot to DVo even though his defense is better. Our offense stalled because our "shooter" was a deer in headlights out there for the majority of his minutes.

Also Fournier has been a disaster for the past 2 seasons

The bigger reality is that message board heroes love hoping for their draft picks and now feel butthurt by the adults in the FO confirming that Grimes had no future here. Bogey and Burks are easy escape goats.

IMO Thibs gave up on Grimes probably the minute Grimes spoke out in the media. And once Thibs is done with you he’s done with you.

Bogey and Burks are a solution to the problem created by the OG trade, which was compounded by OG getting injured. At worst, it’s a reasonable gamble with very limited downside. At best, it could be the push needed to sneak into the ECF. Time will tell.

One thing’s for damn sure, Grimes wasn’t preventing this 5 game slide with our entire front court hurt.

Lol Bojan and Alec havent looked like a solution to anything but losing more. The least they can do is make shots and hold the line against benches, and they cant even do that.

You guys realize them just being on the court has hurt the team right? Bojan has always been a negative player, even in his Jazz/Pacer days, according to advanced stats like RAPTOR and EPM. There are two sides of the court. And we already know about Alec, who is only older now. Im not only basing this on the last 5 games.

Im far from a Grimes fanboy, as Donte is clearly better, but he was a positive overall because of his defense. Meanwhile Fournier has actually outplayed Bojan and Alec since the trade. Just because Thibs is a petty bastard doesnt mean Evan is completely done. He could have given us 15 mpg off the bench if he got to stay in rhythm, but he went from starting to the gulag.

Let’s see how it goes though, I hope they shut me up, it’s early, blah blah blah yada yada.

[JayTWill]

We didn't have to trade for a next year expiring. Fournier already was that player. From the way Burks/Bojan played so far, Grimes/Fournier would have given as much if not more contribution this season.

Yeah but that would have required holding Fournier hostage for another year since Thibs refused to play him so I can understand moving him for another contract that could be traded next year.

Bojan has also been a better player than Fournier for most of their careers. He definitely has more resale value than Fournier ever did IMO

Personally I feel like Bojan's game has become a bit romanticized and Fournier's game has become underappreciated over time. Neither one of them are good enough offensively at this point in their career to make up for how terrible they are in other parts of the game imo. They can be used situationally but I wouldn't want to have to depend on them to play a significant role in many games.

I posted this earlier in the thread but Fournier's numbers the year prior to coming to New York were almost identical to Bojan's this year.
https://stathead.com/tiny/jDQKM

Look at those 100 possession numbers. Fournier was scoring 20 points per game that year in Orlando before being traded to a loaded Celtics team. When he was in Orlando his name came up frequently in trade talk as a player that could help a contender. There was a reason why Boston traded for him in the middle of the season and there was a reason the Knicks signed him.

Bojan was a part of those Utah teams that constantly underachieved in the playoffs. They put up incredible offensive and defensive numbers in the regular season but their weaknesses were exposed in the post season. I remember reading the Jazz board and many fans were ready to move on from Bojan despite his great offense. They felt his lack of defense and athleticism outweighed his offensive contribution.

He then went to Detroit in a low pressure environment with low expectations. His weaknesses were not under the same scrutiny while Fournier's weaknesses became exposed and highlighted on a bigger stage. It does not mean Bojan will fail here but I feel like the history of Bojan and Fournier has been rewritten because of the circumstances they have played in. Fournier is now considered a bum while Bojan is considered a substantial winning piece to a possible contender by many. I just don't think either is true.

[god shammgod]

Read on Twitter

[cgmw]

We're coping and moving the goalposts because we're not willing to call a trade a "disaster" after less than 5 games That's a joke of an analysis tbh.

Also what version of Grimes and Fournier were you watching this season? Grimes was non-existent offensively this season. Scared to shoot or really do anything outside of shuttle the ball around for a majority of the season. Being a good shooter is only useful if you're willing to shoot.... It's why he lost his spot to DVo even though his defense is better. Our offense stalled because our "shooter" was a deer in headlights out there for the majority of his minutes.

Also Fournier has been a disaster for the past 2 seasons

The bigger reality is that message board heroes love hoping for their draft picks and now feel butthurt by the adults in the FO confirming that Grimes had no future here. Bogey and Burks are easy escape goats.

IMO Thibs gave up on Grimes probably the minute Grimes spoke out in the media. And once Thibs is done with you he’s done with you.

Bogey and Burks are a solution to the problem created by the OG trade, which was compounded by OG getting injured. At worst, it’s a reasonable gamble with very limited downside. At best, it could be the push needed to sneak into the ECF. Time will tell.

One thing’s for damn sure, Grimes wasn’t preventing this 5 game slide with our entire front court hurt.

Lol Bojan and Alec havent looked like a solution to anything but losing more. The least they can do is make shots and hold the line against benches, and they cant even do that.

You guys realize them just being on the court has hurt the team right? Bojan has always been a negative player, even in his Jazz/Pacer days, according to advanced stats like RAPTOR and EPM. There are two sides of the court. And we already know about Alec, who is only older now. Im not only basing this on the last 5 games.

Im far from a Grimes fanboy, as Donte is clearly better, but he was a positive overall because of his defense. Meanwhile Fournier has actually outplayed Bojan and Alec since the trade. Just because Thibs is a petty bastard doesnt mean Evan is completely done. He could have given us 15 mpg off the bench if he got to stay in rhythm, but he went from starting to the gulag.

Let’s see how it goes though, I hope they shut me up, it’s early, blah blah blah yada yada.

Ok so you’re saying the team is better off playing Charlie Brown and Budget Obi.

I mean, ok. That’s certainly one way to see it. Seems radically negative to me and like you’re blaming the wrong guys for the current losing streak, which (again) Grimes wasn’t preventing, especially since he’d permanently entered Thibs’ inescapable doghouse.

It was a move to add rotation depth. You’re claiming Bogey and Burks are net negatives so we’d be better off with scrubs or just running the starters 40 mpg. To which I counter, our scrubs are worse. And the only thing running the starters 40 mpg accomplishes is getting them injured.

[TrueWarrior]

Lol Bojan and Alec havent looked like a solution to anything but losing more. The least they can do is make shots and hold the line against benches, and they cant even do that.

You guys realize them just being on the court has hurt the team right? Bojan has always been a negative player, even in his Jazz/Pacer days, according to advanced stats like RAPTOR and EPM. There are two sides of the court. And we already know about Alec, who is only older now. Im not only basing this on the last 5 games.

Im far from a Grimes fanboy, as Donte is clearly better, but he was a positive overall because of his defense. Meanwhile Fournier has actually outplayed Bojan and Alec since the trade. Just because Thibs is a petty bastard doesnt mean Evan is completely done. He could have given us 15 mpg off the bench if he got to stay in rhythm, but he went from starting to the gulag.

Let’s see how it goes though, I hope they shut me up, it’s early, blah blah blah yada yada.

Ok so you’re saying the team is better off playing Charlie Brown and Budget Obi.

I mean, ok. That’s certainly one way to see it. Seems radically negative to me and like you’re blaming the wrong guys for the current losing streak, which (again) Grimes wasn’t preventing, especially since he’d permanently entered Thibs’ inescapable doghouse.

It was a move to add rotation depth. You’re claiming Bogey and Burks are net negatives so we’d be better off with scrubs or just running the starters 40 mpg. To which I counter, our scrubs are worse. And the only thing running the starters 40 mpg accomplishes is getting them injured.

You’re strawmanning me playa.

Quentin was a big reason the team leveled up last year, and the season before that Evan broke the Knicks single season 3 Pt record. They both absolutely could have contributed just as much or more than Bojan and Alec, even if their roles were reduced. Q is still a good defender who shoots 38% from 3 in his career, while Evan is showing he can still play now.

Also play Deuce more, and sure let Jacob Toppin get 10-15 minutes sometimes as hes an athletic dude with some size who looks like he can shoot and defend a bit, but Thibs will never play him so he may as well be in China. He cant do anything more in the G League dropping 50 pt games.

Im going off my own eye test and all the advanced stats. Bojan has always been fool’s gold because his terrible defense outweighs his offense, and Alec is a black hole.

Just because Thibs is a stubborn prick who didnt want to play Quentin, Deuce, Evan, Jacob, etc doesn’t mean we had to make this trade. He’s already barely playing Bojan and Alec as it is with all the injuries, so looks like he’s gotten cold feet himself.

Thibs is the same guy who started Alec over IQ in a lost season. Now he’s barely playing Deuce even after he’s played well and patiently waited for his chance these last 3 years. The guy is nuts.

I’ll qualify all this again though and hope our new fellas start balling at some point, especially in the playoffs if they’re still in the rotation. Im just calling sh*t as I see it man.

[cgmw]

Lol Bojan and Alec havent looked like a solution to anything but losing more. The least they can do is make shots and hold the line against benches, and they cant even do that.

You guys realize them just being on the court has hurt the team right? Bojan has always been a negative player, even in his Jazz/Pacer days, according to advanced stats like RAPTOR and EPM. There are two sides of the court. And we already know about Alec, who is only older now. Im not only basing this on the last 5 games.

Im far from a Grimes fanboy, as Donte is clearly better, but he was a positive overall because of his defense. Meanwhile Fournier has actually outplayed Bojan and Alec since the trade. Just because Thibs is a petty bastard doesnt mean Evan is completely done. He could have given us 15 mpg off the bench if he got to stay in rhythm, but he went from starting to the gulag.

Let’s see how it goes though, I hope they shut me up, it’s early, blah blah blah yada yada.

Ok so you’re saying the team is better off playing Charlie Brown and Budget Obi.

I mean, ok. That’s certainly one way to see it. Seems radically negative to me and like you’re blaming the wrong guys for the current losing streak, which (again) Grimes wasn’t preventing, especially since he’d permanently entered Thibs’ inescapable doghouse.

It was a move to add rotation depth. You’re claiming Bogey and Burks are net negatives so we’d be better off with scrubs or just running the starters 40 mpg. To which I counter, our scrubs are worse. And the only thing running the starters 40 mpg accomplishes is getting them injured.

You’re strawmanning me playa.

Quentin was a big reason the team leveled up last year, and the season before that Evan broke the Knicks single season 3 Pt record. They both absolutely could have contributed just as much or more than Bojan and Alec, even if their roles were reduced. Q is still a good defender who shoots 38% from 3 in his career, while Evan is showing he can still play now.

Also play Deuce more, and sure let Jacob Toppin get 10-15 minutes sometimes as hes an athletic dude with some size who looks like he can shoot and defend a bit, but Thibs will never play him so he may as well be in China. He cant do anything more in the G League dropping 50 pt games.

Im going off my own eye test and all the advanced stats. Bojan has always been fool’s gold because his terrible defense outweighs his offense, and Alec is a black hole.

Just because Thibs is a stubborn prick who didnt want to play Quentin, Deuce, Evan, Jacob, etc doesn’t mean we had to make this trade. He’s already barely playing Bojan and Alec as it is with all the injuries, so looks like he’s gotten cold feet himself.

Thibs is the same guy who started Alec over IQ in a lost season. Now he’s barely playing Deuce even after he’s played well and patiently waited for his chance these last 3 years. The guy is nuts.

I’ll qualify all this again though and hope our new fellas start balling at some point, especially in the playoffs if they’re still in the rotation. Im just calling sh*t as I see it man.

It’s not a strawman to point out the reality that Thibs is the coach. Leon hired him. Leon has kept him. Leon is just being realistic. How’d it work out for Leon when he pretended Thibs wasn’t Thibs by trading for sCam?

Like it or not, Thibs was done with Grimes. He’ll play these new guys and one of them has a tradeable contract next year. If we get healthy for playoffs, hopefully OG, Mitch, and Hartenstein cover for Bogey’s bad defense. And hopefully Thibs comes to his senses and benches Burks for Deuce for the like 8 mpg he sits Brunson.

[Luv those Knicks]

It’s not a strawman to point out the reality that Thibs is the coach. Leon hired him. Leon has kept him. Leon is just being realistic. How’d it work out for Leon when he pretended Thibs wasn’t Thibs by trading for sCam?

Like it or not, Thibs was done with Grimes. He’ll play these new guys and one of them has a tradeable contract next year. If we get healthy for playoffs, hopefully OG, Mitch, and Hartenstein cover for Bogey’s bad defense. And hopefully Thibs comes to his senses and benches Burks for Deuce for the like 8 mpg he sits Brunson.

I don't think it's all on Thibs. Grimes was struggling with his shot this year and Donte had won the starting spot and Leon, for better or worse, loves to tinker.

The OG trade was brilliant. Quick was a good player. Barrett wasn't working here and the chemistry and defense got better and - the outcome was better than anyone expected.

Burkes was supposed to be the 3 pt shooter that Grimes was last year, but his defense is so bad that his shooting doesn't matter, even when it's on, which it hasn't been as a Knick.

Grimes was the odd man out with Donte getting the starting spot, but in hindsight, they should have kept him. I understand people saying that's on Thibs, but I think it's a combination of Grimes not being happy with his new role and struggling as a result.

As for where they go from here, they have to get healthy. Get OG, Mitch and Randle back

C: I-Hart / Mitch
PF: Randle / Precious
SF: OG / J-Hart
SG: Donte / J-Hart
PG: Brunson/McBride

9 player rotation. Burkes & Bog get the Fournier treatment when everyone is healthy. That makes this a really bad trade, but the truth is, when everyone is healthy, Grimes wasn't getting a ton of minutes. They just need to get everyone back on the court come playoffs.

I liked this trade when it happened. I also remember liking the Fournier & Kemba walker additions, and being optimistic about Cam Reddish. Clearly, I have no idea about anything, though Cam did get is Josh Hard, but that effectively cost us 2 first round picks. A tad expensive.

Leon's made some good moves, and some bad ones. I don't hate him. Thibs is infuriating at times, but he's not the worst coach I've seen either.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Adding all of the extra stuff for Burks was as dumb as it gets and we all know who pushed for that BS. Evan and DET 1st for Boj should have been MORE than enough. We would have Flynn/Grimes to help with depth/defense until the team got healthy.

Brunson/Deuce/Flynn
DDV/Grimes
Hart
Precious/Boj
iHart/Sims

Much better rotation.

[seren]

Ok so you’re saying the team is better off playing Charlie Brown and Budget Obi.

I mean, ok. That’s certainly one way to see it. Seems radically negative to me and like you’re blaming the wrong guys for the current losing streak, which (again) Grimes wasn’t preventing, especially since he’d permanently entered Thibs’ inescapable doghouse.

It was a move to add rotation depth. You’re claiming Bogey and Burks are net negatives so we’d be better off with scrubs or just running the starters 40 mpg. To which I counter, our scrubs are worse. And the only thing running the starters 40 mpg accomplishes is getting them injured.

You’re strawmanning me playa.

Quentin was a big reason the team leveled up last year, and the season before that Evan broke the Knicks single season 3 Pt record. They both absolutely could have contributed just as much or more than Bojan and Alec, even if their roles were reduced. Q is still a good defender who shoots 38% from 3 in his career, while Evan is showing he can still play now.

Also play Deuce more, and sure let Jacob Toppin get 10-15 minutes sometimes as hes an athletic dude with some size who looks like he can shoot and defend a bit, but Thibs will never play him so he may as well be in China. He cant do anything more in the G League dropping 50 pt games.

Im going off my own eye test and all the advanced stats. Bojan has always been fool’s gold because his terrible defense outweighs his offense, and Alec is a black hole.

Just because Thibs is a stubborn prick who didnt want to play Quentin, Deuce, Evan, Jacob, etc doesn’t mean we had to make this trade. He’s already barely playing Bojan and Alec as it is with all the injuries, so looks like he’s gotten cold feet himself.

Thibs is the same guy who started Alec over IQ in a lost season. Now he’s barely playing Deuce even after he’s played well and patiently waited for his chance these last 3 years. The guy is nuts.

I’ll qualify all this again though and hope our new fellas start balling at some point, especially in the playoffs if they’re still in the rotation. Im just calling sh*t as I see it man.

It’s not a strawman to point out the reality that Thibs is the coach. Leon hired him. Leon has kept him. Leon is just being realistic. How’d it work out for Leon when he pretended Thibs wasn’t Thibs by trading for sCam?

Like it or not, Thibs was done with Grimes. He’ll play these new guys and one of them has a tradeable contract next year. If we get healthy for playoffs, hopefully OG, Mitch, and Hartenstein cover for Bogey’s bad defense. And hopefully Thibs comes to his senses and benches Burks for Deuce for the like 8 mpg he sits Brunson.

Leon should fire Thibs in the off season to correct his mistake. He let go of a young 3D player for two old useless dudes to satisfy Thibs’ thirst. Thibs is pretty much responsible for most of our injury issues and lack of a reliable offensive system. Best is to cut your losses and move on.

[Wildcat]

I'm not hip with the uptick here. Why are the vocal few dogging the trade with a hurt roster?

[HopelessKnick]

Keep in mind the trade was made with some uncertainty regarding Randle. The FO was trying to give Brunson and the team a shot at a solid playoff run with Randle's return unclear. At the time it was just days after the Randle injury and a high degree of uncertainty. We know Mitch and OG are going to return so we know we will add tons of elite defense.

Scenario A: Stay pat at the deadline. In that case, if Randle didn't return I think we may have had trouble making it out of the first round even.

Scenario B: Do that trade. Now I personally think that even if Randle would miss the playoffs or is only at 80% we have a solid shot at making the 2nd round and possibly more.

Grimes was going to get traded in the offseason regardless I believe. So essentially the choice was between keeping Grimes around for a playoff run vs. Burks/Boj. I think management made the right call----if Randle can return and be somewhat effective I still think we are going to the ECF or be at least ultra competitive in the second round. Give it some time and keep in mind our offense will improve leaps and bounds once OG and Mitch return---defense creating offense. Judging the team right now is not really fair---reserve judgment at least until after OG returns.

[cgmw]

I'm not hip with the uptick here. Why are the vocal few dogging the trade with a hurt roster?

Because we’re not winning 9 out of 10 anymore and the townies are sharpening their pitchforks.

[cgf]

Read on Twitter

This still hurts. I'm optimistic about the guys we got and encouraged by the steps we've seen by McBride, but I still think Grimes was the ideal middle ground between Hart and DDV, who could've been the best fit next Brundle & OG when we're healthy. A shooter teams had to respect, who can attack closeouts, and one of the best young defenders at chasing guys around the perimeter, with the size to defend 2s & 3s.

The difference between what we paid for Burks & Bojan and spending our lower FRP this spring instead of Grimes won't make or break this franchise, but I do think that made us substantially weaker this season...especially if not having to worry about being traded after the deadline let Quentin start playing looser for us. Love what Donte is doing for us, but I really wish we still had both.

Though if our FO nabs Caruso to be that more two-way option for the closing lineup, this summer, I guess that would be cool too...

[cgf]

Keep in mind the trade was made with some uncertainty regarding Randle. The FO was trying to give Brunson and the team a shot at a solid playoff run with Randle's return unclear. At the time it was just days after the Randle injury and a high degree of uncertainty. We know Mitch and OG are going to return so we know we will add tons of elite defense.

Scenario A: Stay pat at the deadline. In that case, if Randle didn't return I think we may have had trouble making it out of the first round even.

Scenario B: Do that trade. Now I personally think that even if Randle would miss the playoffs or is only at 80% we have a solid shot at making the 2nd round and possibly more.

Grimes was going to get traded in the offseason regardless I believe. So essentially the choice was between keeping Grimes around for a playoff run vs. Burks/Boj. I think management made the right call----if Randle can return and be somewhat effective I still think we are going to the ECF or be at least ultra competitive in the second round. Give it some time and keep in mind our offense will improve leaps and bounds once OG and Mitch return---defense creating offense. Judging the team right now is not really fair---reserve judgment at least until after OG returns.

Bojan doesn't really replace Julius though. If Brundle or OG are out or severely limited, our chances this postseason take a massive hit. So I don't think that was part of the logic. It makes more sense as a way to help us withstand Randle & Anunoby's absence, while giving us more bench shooters incase guys higher up the food chain go cold, and swapping Fournier for a more attractive contract this summer.

And the playoffs change a lot of things, last postseason Thibs leaned on Grimes hard because he was a high level defender who teams had to defend on the perimeter...unlike Hart...so if Quentin shot better his second time seeing the playoffs, he very well may have reclaimed his starting spot, the same way he had been earning more and more minutes before getting hurt & traded.

[cgf]

I'm not hip with the uptick here. Why are the vocal few dogging the trade with a hurt roster?

I'm not really dogging the trade so much as lamenting having to give up Grimes instead of one of our 50 meh-FRPs. It is a little funny that this trade meant to help us hold the fort in the short term is needing time to actually help us on the court...which is why I can't help but laugh that Burks & Bojan's net ratings have been almost as bad as OG's were good right after the trade. But this isn't franchise changing stuff...like if we had been able to nab Caruso :-p

[TrueWarrior]

I havent been following the draft or NCAA much, but we have 2 picks this year, plus all picks going forward and more.

I assume we will keep at least 1 of the picks, and there have to be some other 3/D guys out there who can easily replace Grimes in the late 1st. He was a solid player but didnt have some rare skillset.

We picked dudes like Ariza, WChandler, Shumpert, and Quickley in the late 1st/2nd round who were similar to Grimes. We can do it again.

This trade stinks so far, but posters got too attached to Grimes because he was our last 1st round pick.

Leon has been punting and trading out of the draft the last 2 years, but after trading all our youth away I think he will start restocking a bit. We have enough picks to trade and can afford to actually use some now.

[cgf]

I havent been following the draft or NCAA much, but we have 2 picks this year, plus all picks going forward and more.

I assume we will keep at least 1 of the picks, and there have to be some other 3/D guys out there who can easily replace Grimes in the late 1st. He was a solid player but didnt have some rare skillset.

We picked dudes like Ariza, WChandler, Shumpert, and Quickley in the late 1st/2nd round who were similar to Grimes. We can do it again.

This trade stinks so far, but posters got too attached to Grimes because he was our last 1st round pick.

Leon has been punting and trading out of the draft the last 2 years, but after trading all our youth away I think he will start restocking a bit. We have enough picks to trade and can afford to actually use some now.

That doesn't really help us this season. Now if Hart hits enough 3s not to get Okoro'd in the playoffs and/or Donte keeps shooting so well that the defensive hit we take with him next to Brunson, that may not matter. But it could and I would've liked to have had the Grimes option if we needed someone who's better for our defense than DDV or Burks, but who teams respect as a shooter more than Hart or Achiuwa, who has the size to play big minutes next to Brunson.

Like I said, nothing franchise changing, but something I am still a bit disappointed by.

[TrueWarrior]

I havent been following the draft or NCAA much, but we have 2 picks this year, plus all picks going forward and more.

I assume we will keep at least 1 of the picks, and there have to be some other 3/D guys out there who can easily replace Grimes in the late 1st. He was a solid player but didnt have some rare skillset.

We picked dudes like Ariza, WChandler, Shumpert, and Quickley in the late 1st/2nd round who were similar to Grimes. We can do it again.

This trade stinks so far, but posters got too attached to Grimes because he was our last 1st round pick.

Leon has been punting and trading out of the draft the last 2 years, but after trading all our youth away I think he will start restocking a bit. We have enough picks to trade and can afford to actually use some now.

That doesn't really help us this season. Now if Hart hits enough 3s not to get Okoro'd in the playoffs and/or Donte keeps shooting so well that the defensive hit we take with him next to Brunson, that may not matter. But it could and I would've liked to have had the Grimes option if we needed someone who's better for our defense than DDV or Burks, but who teams respect as a shooter more than Hart or Achiuwa, who has the size to play big minutes next to Brunson.

Like I said, nothing franchise changing, but something I am still a bit disappointed by.

Sure Grimes would be a decent luxury, but we’re obviously not truly contending this season, especially if Julius isn’t 100%. Grimes wasn’t going to change that.

Our real championship window starts in 1-2 years. We can get another guy to do what you’re saying by then either in the draft, FA, or via trade.

This trade is an L in the meantime, but just a temporary hiccup at worst unless Grimes becomes some star.