PG: Dick wasn't enough for the Raptors, Knicks win with a Precious facial to top it off!

[Clyde_Style]

Another thing if we're talking about IQ and Deuce, either independently or by comparison, is the question of how they perform when the games count most.

We're about to find out how Deuce does in the playoffs.

As good as IQ has been, he was not good at all in his only playoff year.

If we're going to evaluate these players and their ceilings when one has a significantly larger sample size compared to the other then you should also look to how they play with the season on the line.

Again, my thesis is Deuce appears to play well under pressure and could be a clutch guy. We'll find out soon enough.

[KnicksGod]

I think Deuce will be better, dollar for dollar.

[Deeeez Knicks]

CB wriggling out of his RJ assessment.

What big things did IQ accomplish

He would roast me for being high on Deuce too... The tables have turned!

Deuce has shattered my expectations but my point was moreso about being patient. There was no reason to be up in arms about his PT when he clearly wasn't ready to handle big minutes.

They went to the lab and worked on his game and he gradually got acclimated to the league. Now he's deservedly earned his spot in the rotation.

Players aren't always ready from day 1. Sometimes it takes time and we have to accept that lack of PT doesn't necessarily equate lack of player development.

Patience is def important when it comes to young players, but at the same time they do need to play. It was only a few weeks ago when Deuce was only getting 5mpg and Burks was ahead of him. So we were right in that Deuce is clearly better then Burks and should be getting more minutes and that he could play next to Brunson. Credit to Thibs for realizing that and giving Deuce some consistent minutes and credit to Deuce for responding. If not for the injuries and Burks playing uderly horrific he may not have gotten this shot this year.

Thibs is a really good coach and doing a great job. He does have a flaw in slowly trusting young players though. On one end they do have to really earn it and maybe that does pay off. On the other end they do need minutes and to go thru some mistakes in order to get better.

Deuce has been going thru that process and def showing a lot of signs of improvement. No complaints at all. It's been a great season. But the calls for Deuce to be getting more minutes were def warranted and proven to be right.

[Chanel Bomber]

He would roast me for being high on Deuce too... The tables have turned!

Deuce has shattered my expectations but my point was moreso about being patient. There was no reason to be up in arms about his PT when he clearly wasn't ready to handle big minutes.

They went to the lab and worked on his game and he gradually got acclimated to the league. Now he's deservedly earned his spot in the rotation.

Players aren't always ready from day 1. Sometimes it takes time and we have to accept that lack of PT doesn't necessarily equate lack of player development.

Patience is def important when it comes to young players, but at the same time they do need to play. It was only a few weeks ago when Deuce was only getting 5mpg and Burks was ahead of him. So we were right in that Deuce is clearly better then Burks and should be getting more minutes and that he could play next to Brunson. Credit to Thibs for realizing that and giving Deuce some consistent minutes and credit to Deuce for responding. If not for the injuries and Burks playing uderly horrific he may not have gotten this shot this year.

Thibs is a really good coach and doing a great job. He does have a flaw in slowly trusting young players though. On one end they do have to really earn it and maybe that does pay off. On the other end they do need minutes and to go thru some mistakes in order to get better.

Deuce has been going thru that process and def showing a lot of signs of improvement. No complaints at all. It's been a great season. But the calls for Deuce to be getting more minutes were def warranted and proven to be right.

I think Thibs just wanted to give Burks a legit shot after the trade.

Deuce had been playing in the weeks that preceded the trade, and playing fairly well. Burks gave Thibs a more experienced option going into this run to the playoffs.

I don't think McBride was sent to the doghouse or anything. It was pretty much a win-win situation. If Burks played well, what was there to complain about. If Burks played poorly, then you could reinsert McBride in the rotation. The latter happened. To Deuce's credit, he's made the most of this opportunity.

I don't think there was much to complain about last season when Deuce was really struggling to make shots. He simply wasn't ready then.

As for this season, it was only a matter of time he was reinserted in the rotation after the Detroit trade imo.

[KnicksGod]

Deuce has shattered my expectations but my point was moreso about being patient. There was no reason to be up in arms about his PT when he clearly wasn't ready to handle big minutes.

They went to the lab and worked on his game and he gradually got acclimated to the league. Now he's deservedly earned his spot in the rotation.

Players aren't always ready from day 1. Sometimes it takes time and we have to accept that lack of PT doesn't necessarily equate lack of player development.

Patience is def important when it comes to young players, but at the same time they do need to play. It was only a few weeks ago when Deuce was only getting 5mpg and Burks was ahead of him. So we were right in that Deuce is clearly better then Burks and should be getting more minutes and that he could play next to Brunson. Credit to Thibs for realizing that and giving Deuce some consistent minutes and credit to Deuce for responding. If not for the injuries and Burks playing uderly horrific he may not have gotten this shot this year.

Thibs is a really good coach and doing a great job. He does have a flaw in slowly trusting young players though. On one end they do have to really earn it and maybe that does pay off. On the other end they do need minutes and to go thru some mistakes in order to get better.

Deuce has been going thru that process and def showing a lot of signs of improvement. No complaints at all. It's been a great season. But the calls for Deuce to be getting more minutes were def warranted and proven to be right.

I think Thibs just wanted to give Burks a legit shot after the trade.

Deuce had been playing in the weeks that preceded the trade, and playing fairly well. Burks gave Thibs a more experienced option going into this run to the playoffs.

I don't think McBride was sent to the doghouse or anything. It was pretty much a win-win situation. If Burks played well, what was there to complain about. If Burks played poorly, then you could reinsert McBride in the rotation. The latter happened. To Deuce's credit, he's made the most of this opportunity.

I don't think there was much to complain about last season when Deuce was really struggling to make shots. He simply wasn't ready then.

As for this season, it was only a matter of time he was reinserted in the rotation after the Detroit trade imo.

Circular reasoning. He was reinstated bc Burks stinks.

[aggo]

my god

u guys are really trying to do 6 dimension chess when there is no need.


Burks and Bojan played above McBride to start because (1) injuries and (2) Thibs respects veterans and would never just cut Burks and Bojan minutes to literally 0 for no reason.

McBride THEN TOOK OVER a significant portion of minutes from Burks because he PROVED on the court he was a better and more important player on the team.

it's not a conspiracy or Thibs being so blind to McBride's capabilities. They knew how good he was the entire time. They even talked about it right after the IQ trade. But in the NBA and some old-school coaches like Thibs he will always defer to the veterans first because that's how the league works. So everyone "got their shot" so to say.

Burks and Bojan still play bc they deserve to. You guys are just blinded also by the fact that any other coach with this roster would never play Josh Hart or McBride 40-48 minutes a game and guess who would be playing more under a different coach? BURKS AND BOJAN !

[thebuzzardman]

Apparently, you CAN play a small guard next to Brunson and it is successful!

[RHODEY]

Apparently, you CAN play a small guard next to Brunson and it is successful!

Lets trade Deuce, Mitch, Bogs, and 4 1st rounds picks for Donovan Mitchell!

[Chanel Bomber]

Patience is def important when it comes to young players, but at the same time they do need to play. It was only a few weeks ago when Deuce was only getting 5mpg and Burks was ahead of him. So we were right in that Deuce is clearly better then Burks and should be getting more minutes and that he could play next to Brunson. Credit to Thibs for realizing that and giving Deuce some consistent minutes and credit to Deuce for responding. If not for the injuries and Burks playing uderly horrific he may not have gotten this shot this year.

Thibs is a really good coach and doing a great job. He does have a flaw in slowly trusting young players though. On one end they do have to really earn it and maybe that does pay off. On the other end they do need minutes and to go thru some mistakes in order to get better.

Deuce has been going thru that process and def showing a lot of signs of improvement. No complaints at all. It's been a great season. But the calls for Deuce to be getting more minutes were def warranted and proven to be right.

I think Thibs just wanted to give Burks a legit shot after the trade.

Deuce had been playing in the weeks that preceded the trade, and playing fairly well. Burks gave Thibs a more experienced option going into this run to the playoffs.

I don't think McBride was sent to the doghouse or anything. It was pretty much a win-win situation. If Burks played well, what was there to complain about. If Burks played poorly, then you could reinsert McBride in the rotation. The latter happened. To Deuce's credit, he's made the most of this opportunity.

I don't think there was much to complain about last season when Deuce was really struggling to make shots. He simply wasn't ready then.

As for this season, it was only a matter of time he was reinserted in the rotation after the Detroit trade imo.

Circular reasoning. He was reinstated bc Burks stinks.

And if Burks played well there would be nothing to complain about.

I don't know what the problem is here.

[Capn'O]

Apparently, you CAN play a small guard next to Brunson and it is successful!

The issue is more if you have a small can'tguard next to him.

Deuce (and Quickley, for that matter) can guard.

[stuporman]

There's no way people are still trying to spin a few mins in a game or two that could be construed if one squints real hard and imagines it being true as Burks taking Deuce's mins? That isn't really happening...is it?

Out of curiosity, I went and looked at IQ's and Deuce's draft profiles to see their measurables since I hadn't looked at them in a couple of years. Deuce is only about an inch shorter than IQ but his wing span is a half inch longer.

So for practical purposes they are virtually the same size and if IQ could play next to Brunson with success then Deuce can as far as size. The games prove that out because it's not really just about size, though size is important, it's about skill fit and Deuce's skills fit perfectly.

There are going to be some teams that have big 2 guards which may be more difficult for Deuce to cover but his tenacity on that end will enable him to compete with them for short bursts even if someone like Donte will get the primary task on them.

Thibs wanted Deuce, Thibs developed Deuce, Thibs gave him a role that fits his skills and Thibs is giving him the chance to blossom. The only way any fan should be saying the name Burks should be preceded by the words 'I'm glad Thibs is playing Deuce instead of' in front of it.

[god shammgod]

Apparently, you CAN play a small guard next to Brunson and it is successful!

The issue is more if you have a small can'tguard next to him.

Deuce (and Quickley, for that matter) can guard.

divo can't really guard and is only 1 inch taller than donovan. is 1 inch really that much of a difference ?

[stuporman]

Apparently, you CAN play a small guard next to Brunson and it is successful!

They should just go back to Masai and tell him they'll trade a little Deuce for a big Dick...to go keep it in line with the theme of the thread title.

[stuporman]

Apparently, you CAN play a small guard next to Brunson and it is successful!

The issue is more if you have a small can'tguard next to him.

Deuce (and Quickley, for that matter) can guard.

divo can't really guard and is only 1 inch taller than donovan. is 1 inch it really that much of a difference ?

Divo is pretty strong with elite athleticism, so he does play bigger...but so does Mitchell.

and...that's what she said...wait actually, she thinks one inch is much different so scratch that.

[nykballa2k4]

Have to disagree with you on this. Deuce has been showing plenty of ability to create his own shot, probe and exploit the defense, drive to the rack and make opportunistic putbacks off the offensive boards. He also has better athletic ability than IQ and Deuce has good body control when airborne. For a 6'1'' guard he has decent hops.

A month ago people on this board were saying Deuce was a limited offensive player and he is proving otherwise.

And Deuce has much better shot selection than IQ. He mostly takes shots he is ready to make whereas IQ's shot selection as a Knick was sometimes quite random. Shot selection can be a big factor in a player's effectiveness and I feel Deuce is smarter in this way.

Finally, Deuce is great at taking care of the ball. He is not turnover prone. IQ could get reckless at times.

I don't follow TO so I don't know how IQ has evolved so take that into consideration as I'm comparing them based on their Knicks tenure.

Deuce is going to look more efficient because he is the beneficiary. There is a reason that IQ could extend leads when Brunson sat and Deuce is always sort of a "keep it close" kind of guy. I love Deuce -- what he brings and he and Mitch are the last of the home-grown rotation-level Knicks.

IQ can go 1:1 and get a bucket. Deuce isn't that guy. IQ might take an ill advised 35 foot shot, Deuce would never.
Both play elite defense. Both guys seem like great character guys. Both are easy to root for. People here swore IQ was developing as a passer/playmaker - I never saw it. Deuce is a 3-D wing in a point guard frame. He does handle well, but with him at the point, you can see the offense sputter/stagnate.

You and I are seeing different things. Deuce can get anywhere he wants to get off his shot.

Deuce is now taking guys off the ball to get off a clean shot whether it is in the paint or at the rim.

While he does take a high proportion of shots from three he is drawing defenders in and going past them when they are too close to get off a good shot.

And, even then, Deuce is starting to get those threes off with less space (and making them). IOW, even though he is not a quick release shooter like Donte (Deuce has a catapult set-up in his shooting motion), he is so confident in his ability to make the shot now that he is shooting it as defenders rush him. And that gives him a Plan B to blow by them and he is doing that with increasing frequency.

I agree with your assessment of his shot at least.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Deuce has shattered my expectations but my point was moreso about being patient. There was no reason to be up in arms about his PT when he clearly wasn't ready to handle big minutes.

They went to the lab and worked on his game and he gradually got acclimated to the league. Now he's deservedly earned his spot in the rotation.

Players aren't always ready from day 1. Sometimes it takes time and we have to accept that lack of PT doesn't necessarily equate lack of player development.

Patience is def important when it comes to young players, but at the same time they do need to play. It was only a few weeks ago when Deuce was only getting 5mpg and Burks was ahead of him. So we were right in that Deuce is clearly better then Burks and should be getting more minutes and that he could play next to Brunson. Credit to Thibs for realizing that and giving Deuce some consistent minutes and credit to Deuce for responding. If not for the injuries and Burks playing uderly horrific he may not have gotten this shot this year.

Thibs is a really good coach and doing a great job. He does have a flaw in slowly trusting young players though. On one end they do have to really earn it and maybe that does pay off. On the other end they do need minutes and to go thru some mistakes in order to get better.

Deuce has been going thru that process and def showing a lot of signs of improvement. No complaints at all. It's been a great season. But the calls for Deuce to be getting more minutes were def warranted and proven to be right.

I think Thibs just wanted to give Burks a legit shot after the trade.

Deuce had been playing in the weeks that preceded the trade, and playing fairly well. Burks gave Thibs a more experienced option going into this run to the playoffs.

I don't think McBride was sent to the doghouse or anything. It was pretty much a win-win situation. If Burks played well, what was there to complain about. If Burks played poorly, then you could reinsert McBride in the rotation. The latter happened. To Deuce's credit, he's made the most of this opportunity.

I don't think there was much to complain about last season when Deuce was really struggling to make shots. He simply wasn't ready then.

As for this season, it was only a matter of time he was reinserted in the rotation after the Detroit trade imo.

A reason they traded for Burks is because Thibs didn’t trust Deuce at the time. Thibs was playing Brunson 40+ min and Deuce wasn’t getting any run. He gave Burks the chance before Deuce, even though Deuce was better than Burks the entire year. Deuce def had many games where he was sent to the doghouse.

In terms of win/win, I didn’t want to see another Elf situation where Thibs stuck with the scrub vet for way too long. That would have been a loss if they stuck with Burks too long. A ton of credit to Thibs for adjusting and benching Burks for Deuce. Plus going to more small ball lineups. Things I suggested more then complaining about…play Deuce more, let’s see more Deuce with Brunson, don’t play that scrub Mj Burks….those suggestions actually worked!

[Ghetto Gospel]

Watch on YouTube

[Chanel Bomber]

Patience is def important when it comes to young players, but at the same time they do need to play. It was only a few weeks ago when Deuce was only getting 5mpg and Burks was ahead of him. So we were right in that Deuce is clearly better then Burks and should be getting more minutes and that he could play next to Brunson. Credit to Thibs for realizing that and giving Deuce some consistent minutes and credit to Deuce for responding. If not for the injuries and Burks playing uderly horrific he may not have gotten this shot this year.

Thibs is a really good coach and doing a great job. He does have a flaw in slowly trusting young players though. On one end they do have to really earn it and maybe that does pay off. On the other end they do need minutes and to go thru some mistakes in order to get better.

Deuce has been going thru that process and def showing a lot of signs of improvement. No complaints at all. It's been a great season. But the calls for Deuce to be getting more minutes were def warranted and proven to be right.

I think Thibs just wanted to give Burks a legit shot after the trade.

Deuce had been playing in the weeks that preceded the trade, and playing fairly well. Burks gave Thibs a more experienced option going into this run to the playoffs.

I don't think McBride was sent to the doghouse or anything. It was pretty much a win-win situation. If Burks played well, what was there to complain about. If Burks played poorly, then you could reinsert McBride in the rotation. The latter happened. To Deuce's credit, he's made the most of this opportunity.

I don't think there was much to complain about last season when Deuce was really struggling to make shots. He simply wasn't ready then.

As for this season, it was only a matter of time he was reinserted in the rotation after the Detroit trade imo.

A reason they traded for Burks is because Thibs didn’t trust Deuce at the time. Thibs was playing Brunson 40+ min and Deuce wasn’t getting any run. He gave Burks the chance before Deuce, even though Deuce was better than Burks the entire year. Deuce def had many games where he was sent to the doghouse.

In terms of win/win, I didn’t want to see another Elf situation where Thibs stuck with the scrub vet for way too long. That would have been a loss if they stuck with Burks too long. A ton of credit to Thibs for adjusting and benching Burks for Deuce. Plus going to more small ball lineups. Things I suggested more then complaining about…play Deuce more, let’s see more Deuce with Brunson, don’t play that scrub Mj Burks….those suggestions actually worked!

Bogdanovic and Burks played their first game for the Knicks on February 10.

Per his game logs, McBride played 45, 31, 19, 29 minutes in the 4 games that preceded. Thibs was putting more trust in him. He then gave Burks a fair shot and finally reverted to giving McBride the bigger chunk of minutes once it was apparent that Burks wasn't playing well. I get your fear at the time, and would be 100% with you if McBride were still playing spot minutes today, but I think Thibs handled the situation in a reasonable way.

In hindsight, I have a different read on the Payton situation. Thibs didn't have any back-up point guard besides a fragile Derrick Rose. IQ was a rookie, and too green to run the point. The only other option was the one everyone complained about when he was given PG duties after Kemba and Rose went down the following season. The problem with Payton was that Leon didn't give Thibs enough horses to run the offense.