PG: Knicks beat Nets-4/12/24; Cam mad!

[F N 11]

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See what I mean? they set this man up for failure.

He was never that guy. Never even acted or said he was. They threw these insane expectations on a career 3rd fiddle and when he couldn't live up to them, this is the end result.

He deserves better.

Mikal would be a good addition to the team, but TBH he feels like OG's backup at this point unless he is Randle's replacement

Yall stop capping, Donte would be coming off the bench. Brunson would be surrounded by length and 3 all nba defenders.

I’ll take Devin Booker. However since it’s Brunsons team and he’s showing he can be 1A. Surrounding him with A+ role players on this team like OG, Mikal, and Hartenstein may be the way. Donte gets more green light off the bench with Josh. Theres lots of ways this can go. Nobody should care about minutes if they doing the brotherhood thing.

[F N 11]

That is def not something I’d accept from a player re: Mikal

I mean if my real life friends on the opposing team it’s kind of surreal and cool. Idk if people would like Brunson walking off on Mikal or Josh bc he lost. These dudes won chips together come on

[3toheadmelo]

I hear what you’re saying.

My counter would be what if Mikal really is trying to get traded?

He clearly doesnt seem to like it there, and is making it obvious he’d rather be here or on any other competitive team.

He has successfully lowered his value too from last season. He’s good but clearly not a player to build around or demand 5 first rounders for.

The Nets wont trade him to us, but Id give up Mitch, and some combination of Deuce/1-2 firsts for him.

Donte goes to bench and essentially takes over Deuce’s role, so Deuce wouldnt be needed as much anyway.

Starters:

Jalen
Mikal
OG
Julius
Isaiah

Bench:

Donte
Josh
Precious?

The rest of the bench would need to be filled out because who knows what happens with Precious, Bojan, etc. but that is a very good top 7.

Anyway, wont happen. Just saying Mikal wants out. I understand if some are turned off by his behavior, but he’s not stupid. He has to know how he’s coming off.

i really doubt this dude is gonna try to sabotage his numbers and the team to try and lower his value to get traded. that's basically pulling a james harden. i think he's just not that great of a player. i used to watch him a lot in phoenix and he didn't do much for them in the playoffs. he's quite overrated and its mainly because he has a villanova connection with our guys.

with that being said, i wouldn't mind getting him for mitch and a 1st round pick. i would try to hold on to deuce, i think he has marcus smart potential. i'd rather give up donte. you can find gunners like him anywhere.

I get Mikal has become overrated, which is why I wouldn’t give up more than Mitch, Deuce, and one of our many 1sts for him. I think he’d thrive here in a role we’d need him for though, and it seems like a good “buy low” move in my eyes.

Also I like Deuce, but you’re overrating him and underrating Donte a bit.

Deuce’s defense hasnt been any better than Donte’s this season. They have around the same DEPM & DRTG, while Donte is 4th in league in deflections, and gets more steals, blocks, rebounds, and assists per minute than Deuce while being a more efficient scorer on higher volume.

Basically all the numbers show Donte as being the better player. He’s not just a gunner. Deuce is younger so maybe he has more potential, but Donte keeps improving too and having the Nova guys together would be a big reason for getting Mikal in the first place.

donte isn't that great of a defender. he gets cooked a lot and he also gambles way too often.
the numbers actually show we're much better defensively when he's off the court.

knicks defensive rating with donte on the court: 116.83
knicks defensive rating with donte off the court: 108.17


knicks defensive rating with deuce on the court: 113.10
knicks defensive rating with deuce off the court: 113.02
only slightly better with deuce off the court

i get why you're high on donte, but to me he is just a gunner in the mold of guys like malik monk, kevin huerter, buddy hield, etc. i rather take the gamble on deuce who's already a good defender and has shown tons of flashes of developing an offensive game. deuce has been much more efficient than donte as well since the all star break. averaging 12 PPG on 46/41/92 splits. donte's splits: 42/38/79 averaging 19 ppg. that's a gunner lol

[3toheadmelo]

i disagree about putting all the blame on the nets organization. the guy has quit playing defense and plays with no heart. they don't use him as a #1 option anymore either so that excuse doesn't work anymore. i pointed out recently that his usage has been MUCH lower since the all star break. it is pretty concerning if a guy like cam thomas is outplaying mikal. most of nets twitter aren't fans of mikal anymore. doesn't really have to do much about being the face of the franchise, more so of lack of effort in games and just not giving it his all.

my best offer for mikal would be mitchell robinson and a 1st round pick. i wouldn't give more than that for a guy who doesn't try in games.

Looks like these Nova boys planned this entire scenario. Wouldn’t be surprised.

I’ve argued on this board with the same people for two decades that “nurture” is just as strong as “nature” in the NBA. I agree completely that the terrible Nets franchise and group of clown players they’ve assembled has affected Mikal.

He’d be locked in and competitive AF playing alongside Brunson under Thibs.

i remember when people said frank was going to be this amazing defender and a way better player under thibs too. good times.

[KnicksGod]

That is def not something I’d accept from a player re: Mikal

I mean if my real life friends on the opposing team it’s kind of surreal and cool. Idk if people would like Brunson walking off on Mikal or Josh bc he lost. These dudes won chips together come on

He just had a bad game and a bad season and is getting paid a fortune in the most elite basketball league in human history. It's not okay for him to be that jovial

[gavran]

That is def not something I’d accept from a player re: Mikal

I mean if my real life friends on the opposing team it’s kind of surreal and cool. Idk if people would like Brunson walking off on Mikal or Josh bc he lost. These dudes won chips together come on

He just had a bad game and a bad season and is getting paid a fortune in the most elite basketball league in human history. It's not okay for him to be that jovial

Of course it is.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Mikal would be great here. Would fit in perfectly next to the Nova boys. Basically like getting another OG, who is great too. Those types you can never have too many.

But would be tough to make a deal work and probably not happening

Basically, almost everyone in the nba fraternizes with opposing players especially college buddies.

[3toheadmelo]

never compare mikal to OG. OG plays elite defense, mikal plays none

[Deeeez Knicks]

never compare mikal to OG. OG plays elite defense, mikal plays none

Mikal can still play great defense. He was on the all nba first team defense not too long ago. Defense would be crazy with both guys.

[TrueWarrior]

I get Mikal has become overrated, which is why I wouldn’t give up more than Mitch, Deuce, and one of our many 1sts for him. I think he’d thrive here in a role we’d need him for though, and it seems like a good “buy low” move in my eyes.

Also I like Deuce, but you’re overrating him and underrating Donte a bit.

Deuce’s defense hasnt been any better than Donte’s this season. They have around the same DEPM & DRTG, while Donte is 4th in league in deflections, and gets more steals, blocks, rebounds, and assists per minute than Deuce while being a more efficient scorer on higher volume.

Basically all the numbers show Donte as being the better player. He’s not just a gunner. Deuce is younger so maybe he has more potential, but Donte keeps improving too and having the Nova guys together would be a big reason for getting Mikal in the first place.

donte isn't that great of a defender. he gets cooked a lot and he also gambles way too often.
the numbers actually show we're much better defensively when he's off the court.

knicks defensive rating with donte on the court: 116.83
knicks defensive rating with donte off the court: 108.17


knicks defensive rating with deuce on the court: 113.10
knicks defensive rating with deuce off the court: 113.02
only slightly better with deuce off the court

i get why you're high on donte, but to me he is just a gunner in the mold of guys like malik monk, kevin huerter, buddy hield, etc. i rather take the gamble on deuce who's already a good defender and has shown tons of flashes of developing an offensive game. deuce has been much more efficient than donte as well since the all star break. averaging 12 PPG on 46/41/92 splits. donte's splits: 42/38/79 averaging 19 ppg. that's a gunner lol

Donte is in the 84th percentile overall for EPM. While Deuce is in the 66th percentile.

Donte also blows Deuce away in BPM, Win Shares, and VORP. Also had a better RAPTOR (defensive as well) last season but they stopped tracking RAPTOR this season.

I mean Im not going to argue too much if you prefer Deuce’s potential for the future, but Donte only just turned 27 and hasn’t had too much mileage. The team plays better with him on the court now and he’s been superior to Deuce this season by practically every metric.

Donte slumped badly in February and early March as the 2nd option for sure, which is what your numbers include, but he’s been great since mid-March again. Precious was killing our spacing as a starter, since it gave us 3 non-shooters, and it hurt everybody a lot. OG or Deuce starting has clearly been better.

Just saying Donte isn’t only some 3 pt chucker. He does other things well too, better than Deuce, and even if he isnt some lockdown defender he’s a solid team defender. With OG back he will fall into his ideal role again.

We’ll see what happens in the playoffs though. I love both guys and we shouldn’t trade either unless the deal makes too much sense.

[Im Coming Home]

Props to Jalen's D from Thibs secret child.

Watch on YouTube

he gives me more stan van gundy vibes than thibs

maybe but when he starts yelling in other videos i get thibs vibes

[3toheadmelo]

never compare mikal to OG. OG plays elite defense, mikal plays none

Mikal can still play great defense. He was on the all nba first team defense not too long ago. Defense would be crazy with both guys.

that was 2 years ago. and he ended up getting cooked by luka over and over in that same year in the playoffs. and considering he took a big drop since 2 years ago, he's more of a tim hardaway jr guy now.

[ellobo]

Are we really gonna act like OG 'sticking up' for Brunson wasn't actually the most polite British inquiry ever to have taken place on an NBA court? He doesn't strike me as a football hooligan or anything.

Even with Mitch looming over that whole group which he could have wrecked on his own if he wasn't too much of a goofball it wasn't a particularly intimidating display, it felt mostly perfunctory so to speak.

I'm just calling it as I see it.

i don't think anyone's acting like og went feral. just good to see that despite being cold blooded and poker faced he'll also address line steppers for his teammates. sort of inaugurated him as a 'real' knick

After seeing the replays, I honestly don't think the Cam Thomas push was anything. Cam put two hands on him, and Brunson took a dive to try to draw a flagrant, but the refs didn't buy it.

I still liked OG confronting Cam on two levels. It was backing up a teammate, but also backing up Brunson's flop by reinforcing the impression that Cam crossed a line. And OG did it the right way, under control. You can't let Cam Thomas provoke you into doing something stupid, even getting a tech in that situation, but OG still made his point.

I only saw the end of the game, but I was surprised the Knicks didn't challenge Mitch's late foul on Cam's three point attempt (were the Knicks out of challenges?). I thought Cam jumped and flailed into Mitch, not in a natural shooting motion, and it would be well worth a challenge to negate three free throws.

[BKlutch]

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Cam don't want no part of OG. OG would clean his clock. I'd put money on it.

Im sold on anunoby…Max him

OG stared Cam in the face, and Cam's dick shriveled as he slithered off the court. That's true strength.

[TKKnicks1]

I would go after a guy like Paul George in free agency rather than trade assets for Mikal. Let's face it Clips aren't getting far in the playoffs. PG gonna bail and so are probably Harden and Westbrook. All would be available without having to trade assets. Don't ask me how it will all work under the cap.

[Deeeez Knicks]

never compare mikal to OG. OG plays elite defense, mikal plays none

Mikal can still play great defense. He was on the all nba first team defense not too long ago. Defense would be crazy with both guys.

that was 2 years ago. and he ended up getting cooked by luka over and over in that same year in the playoffs. and considering he took a big drop since 2 years ago, he's more of a tim hardaway jr guy now.

Mikal can still play great defense. Nobody in the world is shutting down Luka by themselves. It takes multiple people. In that playoff series they actually caught them on switches a lot where most of his shots came against Ayton. Luka was abusing Ayton so bad they had to bench him

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[gavran]

never compare mikal to OG. OG plays elite defense, mikal plays none

Mikal can still play great defense. He was on the all nba first team defense not too long ago. Defense would be crazy with both guys.

that was 2 years ago. and he ended up getting cooked by luka over and over in that same year in the playoffs. and considering he took a big drop since 2 years ago, he's more of a tim hardaway jr guy now.

The last thing I would worry about is a former All-defensive first teamer not being able to play great defense again in Thibs' system, while putting him in his comfortable 3rd-4th option on the other end.

[BKlutch]

It’s amazing that we’re close to 50 wins with all of the injuries we had.

And with Leon Hosed, Hoodwinked, Fire Thibs, Trade Ju for a sack of chips, and Team Tank.
In fact, go back further. Remember Kyle O'Quinn? Amundsen? LMFTB? Elf on the Shelf? And a cast of greats?

To be here now is amazing. And I just want to thank everybody here for sticking with the team through the years of hell.

Spoiler:

Not that some didn't biitch the whole time!

[3toheadmelo]

Mikal can still play great defense. He was on the all nba first team defense not too long ago. Defense would be crazy with both guys.

that was 2 years ago. and he ended up getting cooked by luka over and over in that same year in the playoffs. and considering he took a big drop since 2 years ago, he's more of a tim hardaway jr guy now.

Mikal can still play great defense. Nobody in the world is shutting down Luka by themselves. It takes multiple people. In that playoff series they actually caught them on switches a lot where most of his shots came against Ayton. Luka was abusing Ayton so bad they had to bench him

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i had a feeling you were somehow going to deflect to ayton because im cooking your mans

those stats are off. everyone that watched that series knew mikal was getting destroyed.

luka shot 58% from the field when guarded by mikal. shot 18-31 in that series. was out here looking like trae young on defense. sad.
ayton actually did a way better job guarding him than mika. held luka to 41% from the field. luka shot 18-43 against him.

mikal also a playoff career choker. averages 10 ppg shooting 33% from the field in elimination games. sad. just sad.

glad we opted for OG instead of that fraud mikal though. thanks leon!

[3toheadmelo]

I would go after a guy like Paul George in free agency rather than trade assets for Mikal. Let's face it Clips aren't getting far in the playoffs. PG gonna bail and so are probably Harden and Westbrook. All would be available without having to trade assets. Don't ask me how it will all work under the cap.

paul george def a much better to get instead of wasting assets of mikal. gives us a true 2 way presence