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robillionaire wrote:Wildcat wrote:KnixinSix wrote:
Spidah, Booker (if available) or a stretch 5 like KAT are better fits.
Heh, on cue.
Hot take: I think Booker will melt under pressure in NY.
He hit a game winning 3 against us at the garden earlier this year I think he can handle it
sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:
While I think Randle will be shipped out inevitably... there's a possibility that we get Spida to pair with Brunson, OG, Randle, and iHart and give it a look. That would mean DDV and Hart off the bench which is perfectly fine roles for them. It also means we'd likely have to send out McBride and Mitch (or Bogs) along with a load of picks. I think the front office is ready to do it... as hard as it would be to loose a guy like McBride who is a great young player. I think the aforementioned squad puts us on the level of Boston as favorites in the East.
There's not enough money to do that, the playoffs are also showing that depth matters.
Of course there's enough money for a season or two before JB or Randle need to be extended...
Brunson, Spida, OG, Randle, iHart w/ DDV and Hart off the bench is plenty deep. Possibly the deepest team in the league... not sure what you mean.
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Wildcat wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
The further you go in the playoffs the more likely you are to have flaws exposed, right now the obvious flaw is lack of secondary shot creation. We'll have to see what DDV looks like the further we advance, but as it stands the most obvious spots the upgrades would be are SG or C. Moving forward I think they're going to build the team with Josh and OG as their forwards, and use Randle + assets to get the SG or C. Obviously they'd go after Giannis if he's available so the 4 could be upgraded but I don't see that as likely as SG or C, and even C seems unlikely as the only guy that would make a ton of sense is Embiid and he's walking wounded.
Also, I was against Mitchell initially because we'd be small on the perimeter but with they've made move and with Hart and OG on the wings now they have the defensive versatility to give teams different looks and it's not like DDV is that much bigger than Mitchell. Theres less issues with that backcourt because the size to defend wings is there and Hart takes care of rebounding you'd normally get from a 4. The perfect addition to the team won't be on the market anytime soon though, the two way wing that can get 25, basically prime Paul George.
On this team, your secondary creator is Randle. Knicks just drew the short end of the stick.
I think with what we're seeing from Hart/OG at the 3 and 4, they're going to build with that in mind.
nykballa2k4 wrote:robillionaire wrote:Wildcat wrote:
Heh, on cue.
Hot take: I think Booker will melt under pressure in NY.
He hit a game winning 3 against us at the garden earlier this year I think he can handle it
Always safer to be pessimistic than to assume he will thrive. He has already survived a Jenner/Kardashian.
Wildcat wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Wildcat wrote:
On this team, your secondary creator is Randle. Knicks just drew the short end of the stick.
I think with what we're seeing from Hart/OG at the 3 and 4, they're going to build with that in mind.
Big fan of Hart and OG combo, but Hart's MPG is not substantiable. Not every game needs to be an offensive struggle and I think Divo is all you need out of the 2-guard spot. With Randle in mind, Thibs has many options to play with and I don't think he's afraid to stick with Hart/OG to closeout games if it's producing results. I see a lineup of I-Hart, Randle, OG, Divo, and JB as a great combination of offense/defense. Let Josh get his well deserved 6th Man next year.
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
There's not enough money to do that, the playoffs are also showing that depth matters.
Of course there's enough money for a season or two before JB or Randle need to be extended...
Brunson, Spida, OG, Randle, iHart w/ DDV and Hart off the bench is plenty deep. Possibly the deepest team in the league... not sure what you mean.
How exactly are you going to trade for Donovan, keep Randle, IHart and extend OG? The new cba starts this summer, all the teams that did crazy moves last summer did it because the expectation is that they won't be able to do it this summer.
sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:
Of course there's enough money for a season or two before JB or Randle need to be extended...
Brunson, Spida, OG, Randle, iHart w/ DDV and Hart off the bench is plenty deep. Possibly the deepest team in the league... not sure what you mean.
How exactly are you going to trade for Donovan, keep Randle, IHart and extend OG? The new cba starts this summer, all the teams that did crazy moves last summer did it because the expectation is that they won't be able to do it this summer.
Not a cap expert, but imagine if OG opts-in and extends, then iHart gets his ~16m starting salary and we shed McBride, Robinson, and Bog's salaries in the deal, along with any minor cost cutting moves (ie letting Precious walk, trading our picks, etc.), we should be able to get under the second apron due to Brunson and Randle being on very reasonable deals. Someone check the math...
Brunson $25m, Randle $30m, Spida $35m, OG $20m (opts into player option), iHart $16m
Hart $18m DDV $11m
~$155m to your core 7.
The rest filled with minimum guys... It's totally doable in theory. Then you could trade Randle the next season for an expiring but at least you give this squad one year to go all the way.
"Based on the cap projection of $141 million, the tax line would be roughly $171.3 million, the first apron would be nearly $178.7 million and the second apron would be around $189.5 million"
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:spree2kawhi wrote:KnixinSix wrote:
Mitchell is playing high level D this year much more in line with his college and 1st 2 years in NBA. Mitchell is a 2 way player and fits our system like a glove. He wants to be in NY and would likely thrive under Thibs defensively. He allows Brunson to play off ball more and gives him better spacing to operate. Yeah he'd be a GREAT addition. When Donovan is on he would be our best 3 ball shooter even better than Brunson.
Thibs is learning how to play small ball more often this year and he is seeing the positive results. Mitchell is 6'3 so a bit short for a 2 but also has a long wingspan to partially compensate.
Mitchell is great, there’s no doubt about that. We do have DDV though and I’m fine with him as a shooter next to Brunson. To me DDV is a quality starter. I’d rather upgrade the wing positions. That’s all.
The further you go in the playoffs the more likely you are to have flaws exposed, right now the obvious flaw is lack of secondary shot creation. We'll have to see what DDV looks like the further we advance, but as it stands the most obvious spots the upgrades would be are SG or C. Moving forward I think they're going to build the team with Josh and OG as their forwards, and use Randle + assets to get the SG or C. Obviously they'd go after Giannis if he's available so the 4 could be upgraded but I don't see that as likely as SG or C, and even C seems unlikely as the only guy that would make a ton of sense is Embiid and he's walking wounded.
Also, I was against Mitchell initially because we'd be small on the perimeter but with they've made move and with Hart and OG on the wings now they have the defensive versatility to give teams different looks and it's not like DDV is that much bigger than Mitchell. Theres less issues with that backcourt because the size to defend wings is there and Hart takes care of rebounding you'd normally get from a 4. The perfect addition to the team won't be on the market anytime soon though, the two way wing that can get 25, basically prime Paul George.
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Wildcat wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
I think with what we're seeing from Hart/OG at the 3 and 4, they're going to build with that in mind.
Big fan of Hart and OG combo, but Hart's MPG is not substantiable. Not every game needs to be an offensive struggle and I think Divo is all you need out of the 2-guard spot. With Randle in mind, Thibs has many options to play with and I don't think he's afraid to stick with Hart/OG to closeout games if it's producing results. I see a lineup of I-Hart, Randle, OG, Divo, and JB as a great combination of offense/defense. Let Josh get his well deserved 6th Man next year.
If they want a star there's really no way they can keep Randle on the team, the money doesn't work in the end because he's up for an extension soon as well. The way the new cba works it won't make sense to have 3 forwards making that much, just the same way it doesn't work for the Wolves and their 3 bigs. Josh is paid like a starter, he's been at his best this season as a starter, I just don't see how they put that genie back in the bottle.
I think they're going to go hard after Mitchell or Booker.
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
How exactly are you going to trade for Donovan, keep Randle, IHart and extend OG? The new cba starts this summer, all the teams that did crazy moves last summer did it because the expectation is that they won't be able to do it this summer.
Not a cap expert, but imagine if OG opts-in and extends, then iHart gets his ~16m starting salary and we shed McBride, Robinson, and Bog's salaries in the deal, along with any minor cost cutting moves (ie letting Precious walk, trading our picks, etc.), we should be able to get under the second apron due to Brunson and Randle being on very reasonable deals. Someone check the math...
Brunson $25m, Randle $30m, Spida $35m, OG $20m (opts into player option), iHart $16m
Hart $18m DDV $11m
~$155m to your core 7.
The rest filled with minimum guys... It's totally doable in theory. Then you could trade Randle the next season for an expiring but at least you give this squad one year to go all the way.
"Based on the cap projection of $141 million, the tax line would be roughly $171.3 million, the first apron would be nearly $178.7 million and the second apron would be around $189.5 million"
First and foremost, how do you even trade for Mitchell? The only players under salary that can be fit into a trade for his $35 million outside of Randle are Mitch and Bogey, why in the world would the Cavs accept that? I'd rather lose Donovan for nothing than accept a trade where we get a 35 year old SF and a guy that plays the same position as 2 of their core 4 players. You're only going to get a decent chance of getting Mitchell or Booker by sending Randle to a 3rd team, nobody is jumping out the window to help facilitate a trade where Bogey & Mitch are all they're getting.
And most importantly yoou can't sacrifice that much depth and the picks at the same time. You're watching us play a team that has 2 great players surrounded by a bunch of mid, while our role players are better than theirs, you also see the Suns in the West look pretty shaky because they have 3 guys surrounded by vet min guys. That model of team building does not work anymore, you need depth moving forward.
I don't see how you can come up with trades for any star, and still have Randle on the team, he's the last asset we have left with the picks to get anything.
Capn'O wrote:I wonder what Paul Reed's feelings are about metal bats.
sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:
Not a cap expert, but imagine if OG opts-in and extends, then iHart gets his ~16m starting salary and we shed McBride, Robinson, and Bog's salaries in the deal, along with any minor cost cutting moves (ie letting Precious walk, trading our picks, etc.), we should be able to get under the second apron due to Brunson and Randle being on very reasonable deals. Someone check the math...
Brunson $25m, Randle $30m, Spida $35m, OG $20m (opts into player option), iHart $16m
Hart $18m DDV $11m
~$155m to your core 7.
The rest filled with minimum guys... It's totally doable in theory. Then you could trade Randle the next season for an expiring but at least you give this squad one year to go all the way.
"Based on the cap projection of $141 million, the tax line would be roughly $171.3 million, the first apron would be nearly $178.7 million and the second apron would be around $189.5 million"
First and foremost, how do you even trade for Mitchell? The only players under salary that can be fit into a trade for his $35 million outside of Randle are Mitch and Bogey, why in the world would the Cavs accept that? I'd rather lose Donovan for nothing than accept a trade where we get a 35 year old SF and a guy that plays the same position as 2 of their core 4 players. You're only going to get a decent chance of getting Mitchell or Booker by sending Randle to a 3rd team, nobody is jumping out the window to help facilitate a trade where Bogey & Mitch are all they're getting.
And most importantly yoou can't sacrifice that much depth and the picks at the same time. You're watching us play a team that has 2 great players surrounded by a bunch of mid, while our role players are better than theirs, you also see the Suns in the West look pretty shaky because they have 3 guys surrounded by vet min guys. That model of team building does not work anymore, you need depth moving forward.
I don't see how you can come up with trades for any star, and still have Randle on the team, he's the last asset we have left with the picks to get anything.
McBride, Robinson, Bogs (expiring), and picks for Spida. Works in the checker and Cleveland reloads on picks and young players. They could trade Allen separately or trade Robinson later. Spida's trade market may be light if he reiterates his position of NY or bust. No one's giving up more than the above for a rental...
Wildcat wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Wildcat wrote:
Big fan of Hart and OG combo, but Hart's MPG is not substantiable. Not every game needs to be an offensive struggle and I think Divo is all you need out of the 2-guard spot. With Randle in mind, Thibs has many options to play with and I don't think he's afraid to stick with Hart/OG to closeout games if it's producing results. I see a lineup of I-Hart, Randle, OG, Divo, and JB as a great combination of offense/defense. Let Josh get his well deserved 6th Man next year.
If they want a star there's really no way they can keep Randle on the team, the money doesn't work in the end because he's up for an extension soon as well. The way the new cba works it won't make sense to have 3 forwards making that much, just the same way it doesn't work for the Wolves and their 3 bigs. Josh is paid like a starter, he's been at his best this season as a starter, I just don't see how they put that genie back in the bottle.
I think they're going to go hard after Mitchell or Booker.
If you believe the narrative that Thibs has more control over the roster, I don't think the Knicks are going to pursue stars as hard we might've thought a year ago. Since OG got here, I personally have moved away from that thought process because we are seeing a group of guys -- including Randle -- that fit and compliment each other. Honestly, I rather see what this team can do than chase someone like Mitchell or Booker (I'm a fan of Spida, but I don't like Booker).
As far as Josh is concern, his salary is irrelevant in the long run. Knicks are gutting out wins by shear force of will, but they are struggling with slow starts. They ranked fairly low as is this season.
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
First and foremost, how do you even trade for Mitchell? The only players under salary that can be fit into a trade for his $35 million outside of Randle are Mitch and Bogey, why in the world would the Cavs accept that? I'd rather lose Donovan for nothing than accept a trade where we get a 35 year old SF and a guy that plays the same position as 2 of their core 4 players. You're only going to get a decent chance of getting Mitchell or Booker by sending Randle to a 3rd team, nobody is jumping out the window to help facilitate a trade where Bogey & Mitch are all they're getting.
And most importantly yoou can't sacrifice that much depth and the picks at the same time. You're watching us play a team that has 2 great players surrounded by a bunch of mid, while our role players are better than theirs, you also see the Suns in the West look pretty shaky because they have 3 guys surrounded by vet min guys. That model of team building does not work anymore, you need depth moving forward.
I don't see how you can come up with trades for any star, and still have Randle on the team, he's the last asset we have left with the picks to get anything.
McBride, Robinson, Bogs (expiring), and picks for Spida. Works in the checker and Cleveland reloads on picks and young players. They could trade Allen separately or trade Robinson later. Spida's trade market may be light if he reiterates his position of NY or bust. No one's giving up more than the above for a rental...
NY or bust includes the Nets, and Cam Thomas / Cam Johnson plus the Suns & Sixers picks beats that trade.
aggo wrote:Mitch + 1 frp for herb jones
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Wildcat wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
If they want a star there's really no way they can keep Randle on the team, the money doesn't work in the end because he's up for an extension soon as well. The way the new cba works it won't make sense to have 3 forwards making that much, just the same way it doesn't work for the Wolves and their 3 bigs. Josh is paid like a starter, he's been at his best this season as a starter, I just don't see how they put that genie back in the bottle.
I think they're going to go hard after Mitchell or Booker.
If you believe the narrative that Thibs has more control over the roster, I don't think the Knicks are going to pursue stars as hard we might've thought a year ago. Since OG got here, I personally have moved away from that thought process because we are seeing a group of guys -- including Randle -- that fit and compliment each other. Honestly, I rather see what this team can do than chase someone like Mitchell or Booker (I'm a fan of Spida, but I don't like Booker).
As far as Josh is concern, his salary is irrelevant in the long run. Knicks are gutting out wins by shear force of will, but they are struggling with slow starts. They ranked fairly low as is this season.
They're 100% going to go after Donovan or Booker if those guys are ever on the market, especially since they're CAA and Randle no longer is. Everything they've done should show that they want another star, there's no assets left to get anything done outside of Randle & picks.
Keeping all the picks is the biggest hint possible about their plans.
KnixinSix wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Wildcat wrote:
If you believe the narrative that Thibs has more control over the roster, I don't think the Knicks are going to pursue stars as hard we might've thought a year ago. Since OG got here, I personally have moved away from that thought process because we are seeing a group of guys -- including Randle -- that fit and compliment each other. Honestly, I rather see what this team can do than chase someone like Mitchell or Booker (I'm a fan of Spida, but I don't like Booker).
As far as Josh is concern, his salary is irrelevant in the long run. Knicks are gutting out wins by shear force of will, but they are struggling with slow starts. They ranked fairly low as is this season.
They're 100% going to go after Donovan or Booker if those guys are ever on the market, especially since they're CAA and Randle no longer is. Everything they've done should show that they want another star, there's no assets left to get anything done outside of Randle & picks.
Keeping all the picks is the biggest hint possible about their plans.
Randle is clearly better than RJ and/or IQ who were the original centerpieces of the first DM trade with Utah.
Just imagine this team as it is right now but with Spidah AND of McBride. Spidah's 3 ball shooting along with lightning slashes to the hoop would totally take pressure off of Brunson. This team would be unstoppable. And Spidah's D while not McBride's would be plenty good enough under Thibs.
I agree it would be wild. Assuming we trade Randle for him, that team’s a little thin at forward though. sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:
McBride, Robinson, Bogs (expiring), and picks for Spida. Works in the checker and Cleveland reloads on picks and young players. They could trade Allen separately or trade Robinson later. Spida's trade market may be light if he reiterates his position of NY or bust. No one's giving up more than the above for a rental...
NY or bust includes the Nets, and Cam Thomas / Cam Johnson plus the Suns & Sixers picks beats that trade.
It's debatable whether that Nets package trumps the NYK package.... and it's debatable whether Spida would want to go to the cesspool that is the current Brooklyn Nets team... highly debatable... But let's see how the playoffs and off-season plays out!
