PG: 2nd Seed Baby!

[thebuzzardman]

Brunson is kinda like Curry on defense. Undersized but plays smart and hustles to where he is not that much of a liability especially in terms of his position…the charges are a big plus. Not to say he can’t get picked on, but he will at least battle. At that position, not many pgs are switchable onto big wings or even good defenders either

The awards are mostly based around offense anyway. Jokic, Harden, Curry, Nash, Iverson, Dirk have all won mvps.

Brunson won’t win mvp this year, but defense really shouldn’t exclude him from being a first team all nba player. It sounds like he won’t make first team all nba. I think that’ll mostly be due to name recognition and rep over the body of work and impact this season.

I agree that being a mediocre defender shouldn't exclude you from winning MVP.

But if you're a worse defender than your competitors for MVP, I'd expect you to be a superior offensive force (see Dirk, Curry and Harden's MVP campaigns).

But while he's an explosive offensive player, and one of the best engines in the NBA, I just don't think Brunson is a better offensive player than Jokic, SGA or Doncic. They're all more efficient than Brunson (not that it's the only factor, and there are mitigating circumstances for Jalen), and Jokic/Doncic are generational playmakers to top it off.

And that's where the lack of defensive impact costs him.

Agreed with your last paragraph btw.

Not this sh*t again!



Actually, your arguments are pretty valid

[stuporman]

How do they determine the all-nba teams? Is it most votes for each team, like 1st, 2nd, 3rd and sort players on to the teams that way or do they count the accumulation of points and sort them top 5 most points gets the 1st team, second most points on the 2nd team and such.

[stuporman]

Oh...and these award voters aren't poring over metrics like the geeks online do to decide who to vote for, most of these voters are looking are big picture things from the comments they make about it and rightly or wrongly don't decide based on fractions of points in metrics.

When someone makes their argument based on these obscure metrics just know that the voters aren't doing it that way so you can dismiss the geekspeak without a care.

[stuporman]

Brunson, was 2nd in the league in taking charges and if you don't appreciate the impact and value that brings to the defense then that's on you.

Taking charges changes momentum and is an excellent example of elite help defense. There is nothing about Jalen Brunson's game that is insignificant.

Brunson does more than just take charges on defense now, the video is from one single game of examples where he makes a wide array of different types of positive defensive plays.

Also, if a player does something to fill a gap or make a rotation, doubles, helps or anything that results in something that doesn't turn up in statbox because a pass isn't made to a cutting player, or a player picks up their dribble and passes or stops a player from getting a good look so they pass how is it known in stats.

There are plenty of examples where nothing actually gets recorded in a box score and never makes it into counting stats or even metrics but are instances of plus defense.

So he is improving and it's getting harder to just take the 'his limitations makes him a minus defender' as gospel anymore, he may never be a plus defender but he makes plus defensive plays at times. How all the different 'metrics' or stats measure up may not be the full story,

100%

Jalen Brunson is playing with a top 3-5 defensive team, so he must be contributing mightily,

It also isn't a case of great defensive players around him covering up for his constant mistakes or perpetually getting beat. He's actually contributing to the top defensive team effort by being a solid and smart defender that is evident in the video of the actual play, because how players and teams play make teams good or bad at skills, not metrics. Stats are artifacts of play that might not give the whole picture.

[Zenzibar]

Brunson does more than just take charges on defense now, the video is from one single game of examples where he makes a wide array of different types of positive defensive plays.

Also, if a player does something to fill a gap or make a rotation, doubles, helps or anything that results in something that doesn't turn up in statbox because a pass isn't made to a cutting player, or a player picks up their dribble and passes or stops a player from getting a good look so they pass how is it known in stats.

There are plenty of examples where nothing actually gets recorded in a box score and never makes it into counting stats or even metrics but are instances of plus defense.

So he is improving and it's getting harder to just take the 'his limitations makes him a minus defender' as gospel anymore, he may never be a plus defender but he makes plus defensive plays at times. How all the different 'metrics' or stats measure up may not be the full story,

100%

Jalen Brunson is playing with a top 3-5 defensive team, so he must be contributing mightily,

It also isn't a case of great defensive players around him covering up for his constant mistakes or perpetually getting beat. He's actually contributing to the top defensive team effort by being a solid and smart defender that is evident in the video of the actual play, because how players and teams play make teams good or bad at skills, not metrics. Stats are artifacts of play that might not give the whole picture.

Case:

Watch on YouTube