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donnie walsh townhall recap...

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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#101 » by StutterStep » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:58 pm

i'm objecting to the idea of trying to stay competitive while rebuilding. we'd be better served just playing the young guys, trying to get as good a draft pick as possible and doing what we can to get rid of high salaried players that aren't helping us win. what i'm suggesting is what portland did, they cut their losses and moved on.


No they didn't. They had a bloated roster filled with injuries and contracts. They 30+ games and lucked out in the lottery twice, and traded Teflair for Roy.... They were trying to rebuild on the fly and got lucky... they never tanked.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#102 » by TKF » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:02 am

StutterStep wrote:
i'm objecting to the idea of trying to stay competitive while rebuilding. we'd be better served just playing the young guys, trying to get as good a draft pick as possible and doing what we can to get rid of high salaried players that aren't helping us win. what i'm suggesting is what portland did, they cut their losses and moved on.


No they didn't. They had a bloated roster filled with injuries and contracts. They 30+ games and lucked out in the lottery twice, and traded Teflair for Roy.... They were trying to rebuild on the fly and got lucky... they never tanked.



And they still have miles on their books, they just stashed him away somewhere, so it just goes to show how hard it is to purge a team of bad contracts.. and yes, some luck has to be involved...
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#103 » by StutterStep » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:17 am

TKF wrote:And they still have miles on their books, they just stashed him away somewhere, so it just goes to show how hard it is to purge a team of bad contracts.. and yes, some luck has to be involved...


I think they've moved Miles off their books by filing for a Medical Retirement on him. They still have LaFrentz though... and with Roy's injury, I think, my prediction that they wouldn't make the playoffs again might prove true. But who knows...
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#104 » by TKF » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:29 am

StutterStep wrote:
TKF wrote:And they still have miles on their books, they just stashed him away somewhere, so it just goes to show how hard it is to purge a team of bad contracts.. and yes, some luck has to be involved...


I think they've moved Miles off their books by filing for a Medical Retirement on him. They still have LaFrentz though... and with Roy's injury, I think, my prediction that they wouldn't make the playoffs again might prove true. But who knows...


Oh, did they get that from miles? wow, last thing I heard is that he was trying to make a comeback.... LOL.. anyway, I forgot about raef... at one time when healthy, he was a really good player..
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#105 » by StutterStep » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:37 am

TKF wrote:
Oh, did they get that from miles? wow, last thing I heard is that he was trying to make a comeback.... LOL.. anyway, I forgot about raef... at one time when healthy, he was a really good player..


The NBA approved it but if Miles makes a comeback, I'm not sure whether the cap hit (difference between old and new salary) goes back on Portland's books. I'm hoping that is what Walsh does to Jerome James.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#106 » by TKF » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:31 am

StutterStep wrote:
TKF wrote:
Oh, did they get that from miles? wow, last thing I heard is that he was trying to make a comeback.... LOL.. anyway, I forgot about raef... at one time when healthy, he was a really good player..


The NBA approved it but if Miles makes a comeback, I'm not sure whether the cap hit (difference between old and new salary) goes back on Portland's books. I'm hoping that is what Walsh does to Jerome James.



me too....
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#107 » by cgmw » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:03 pm

Luv those Knicks wrote:
cgmw wrote:Here's the executive summary of what he said:

1. Jamal can be an All-Star
2. Marbury will be a part of the team to the extent that he wants to be
3. Zach is a 20/10 guy who can't be traded for less value
4. Curry is a young center with great feet
5. Nate is an athletic freak
6. I'm not shopping Lee
7. QRich lost weight, so he'll be good again
8. Fans hate Jeffries, but they used to hate Diaw too
9. Cap space in 2010 is my main priority

None of this is exactly jaw-dropping. For those of you who believe he was "candid," please take your heads out of your asses. He was being as positive as you can be without OBVIOUSLY lying. Given his position, I wouldn't expect anything less. I mean, it's not like he can just come out and say his players are crap and need to GTFO.




I wanted to address this, cause this is a fair point. You are correct, nothing he said was "jaw dropping" and you're also correct that "he can't come out and say his players are crap" What he said was pretty standard "straight from the memo" stuff.


But what is clear, because walsh has backed it up with action as well as words, is that He is playing for 2010 cap space, and he's right. NY is a place that players want to come to, so cap space in NY is more valuable than cap space in Charlotte or Milwaukee or Cleveland. That's a fact.


I also think it's important to recognize that GM's have a basic strategy, and while actually building a championship team is often as much luck (wining the rights to draft Tim Duncan) as skill - a good GM's strategy is still very useful.


To make my point - lets look at the last few GMs (and not quite GMs, but GM influences) the Knicks had.


Dave Checketts / Ernie Grunfeld - Patrick Ewing era (plan is to build around ewing, trade draft picks for guys like Rolando Blackman, Kiki Vandeweigh, Tony Campbell, and trade your PG (Mark Jackson) for Charles Smith, and feel like an idiot because you traded Rod Strickland just 6 months earlier.

Pat Riley - not a GM, but he wanted to be. After falling from the playoffs in 1995, Riley wanted to trade Ewing. He might have been right.

Ernie Grunfeld - in an interesting, team building move, he trades Charles Oakley for Marcus Camby. In hindsight, that move was brilliant, though at the time it was critisized.


Jeff van Gundy - yeah, he wasn't a GM, but he had say in what was done. Knicks could have traded Chris Childs & our pick for Andre Miller. Gundy said he liked Childs, but he benched him the following season.

Ed Tapscott - not sure if his intention was sabotage, or if he just loved Euros, but I think I speak for every knick fan everywhere when I say - WE HATE ED.


Scott Layden - OK, this is where it gets interesting. Perhaps Layden was influenced by Dolan, but Layden represented the "you can't rebuild in NY" philosophy. So, he was always trying to improve his team. First it was reloading with previously respectible, but unspectacular vets like Clarence Weatherspoon, Howard Eisley and Shandon Anderson. Then it was the King Kong trade - Ewing for Luc Longley, Travis Knight and Glenn Rice. Then it was trading our draft pick for Eric Strickland, and then trading Eric Strickland for Othella Harrington.

Isiah - well, Isiah's strategy was basically "i'm not layden" - so I'm going to trade everybody I can just to prove that I'm not Layden, and, I want to win now, so I'll give up 2 draft picks for Marbury, and I'll take on a boatload of Salary for Jamal, and Eddy Curry excites me to the point of daily masterbation, so I'll give up my first born son to get this guy.


and Larry Brown, while not a GM, had influence and his strategy was - I can't win some some of these guys. Jimmy, make some trades for me, get me Jalen Rose and Steve Francis, and I want to cut Marbury, Ariza, Nate and a few other guys I don't remember. Larry's strategy was, cut half the team, keep the guys who don't hate me.


So now we have a GM who says he's going to look at the players, and he's going to give Marbury a chance, and that's fine with me, cause, while it's not earth shaking (and Isiah's strategy of trade everybody was kinda earthshaking), I think Walsh is being as upfront and as honest as he can be and I think his 2010 cap strategy is a pretty good one. I don't detect any obvious signs of BS in anything he's saying, well, with the possible exception of Q. There might be a bit of wishful thinking there. I think Q's done.

But we did get a basic outline of Walsh's strategy, unlike Isiah, he's not going to trade the farm in his first week in office, but he is going to try to improve the team and he's going to consider trades. He's building a team for 2010, not next month.

so, the real judgement of Walsh should come over the next 2 years when he makes the big decisions, and that's fine. It also tells us waht to expect. Obviously, walsh isn't opposed to making changes, he's just not in a rush to do so. Really, GM's do deserve to be judged upon the big moves they make, and it's OK if they take a few months to do their first big move.
Cheers to that. :beer:

Great post.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#108 » by Paeds » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:07 pm

Great original post, it is refreshing to hear Donnies straight talk and positivity

God Shamgod, you are not portraying yourself very well in this thread. I know you said you dont care but figured I would point it out for you as a Objective poster.

It is hard to get that type of pizza anywhere else... I would kill to get a slice of NY pizza. I remember growing up in the bronx, we had this place called prospect pizza.. absolutely one of the best...


I live in Toronto and for 4 years I have been looking. I finally found a place that is good enough to take care of my craving

*starts drooling about a "Big Slice" that is sooo Big that the lip of the pizza bends and the oil dripps slowly onto the white paper plate causing you to use two hands to prevent all the cheese from sliding out**
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#109 » by TKF » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:17 pm

Paeds wrote:Great original post, it is refreshing to hear Donnies straight talk and positivity

God Shamgod, you are not portraying yourself very well in this thread. I know you said you dont care but figured I would point it out for you as a Objective poster.

It is hard to get that type of pizza anywhere else... I would kill to get a slice of NY pizza. I remember growing up in the bronx, we had this place called prospect pizza.. absolutely one of the best...


I live in Toronto and for 4 years I have been looking. I finally found a place that is good enough to take care of my craving

*starts :cry: drooling about a "Big Slice" that is sooo Big that the lip of the pizza bends and the oil dripps slowly onto the white paper plate causing you to use two hands to prevent all the cheese from sliding out**



:cry: I miss that, just thinking about that pizza oil dripping down with all of that cheese!!! oh lordy... LOL
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