Devin Harris effectiveness

[TheBluest]

I wasn't sure where this Knick hating was coming from and then this Harris discussion gained steam, and somewhere between last night Harris support and Knick hating kinda joined together, or at least I felt it did. Maybe I overreacted. Just to make things clear, I'm not OptimusADL.

I think Harris case is interesting for us Knicks fans because he is reminds people of Marbury and Crawford, and there is a lot of emotion intermingled there.

Are you kidding me? The guy was kicking our ass...you think I'm gonna say, damn at least he's killing his offense? No I'm gonna say the truth and say that Harris kicked our ass...he can chuck as much as he damn wants, but if you're giving him a chance to go 6 of 6, that's on us. We didn't lay him out, or play defense on him. So no, I don't agree, and label me a Knick hater guys because I don't agree with this policy of blind support, this labeling of others as haters because they say what they see...I'll support the team when it does the things right, and I'll say when I feel it's doing something wrong. You can even label me as someone who called Harrington a chucker, even though I never did, just so you can say that I'm not being objective.

If you're being objective and label Harris a chucker for having an efficient game, then by all means label Harrington for being a chucker for having an efficient game. By all means, do so.

This happens far too often and it's truly disturbing and a down right awful trend. It takes away from a person's dignity when they behave this way.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Harris is a good player having a great year and nothing like Crawford. Dude is avg 25 points on 15 shots a game which is pretty incredible for a guard.

He improved a lot over the past few years and has been getting better and better. The offense is geared around him driving and creating/kicking. So I wouldnt blame him so much for being a "chucker" when thats what there offense is built around. And it's working. The Nets are 11-9 when everyone expected them to be bottom dwellers and Harris is there best player right now. He's been playing like an allstar so far.

But yeah, he is not a true pg so I see where some of the criticism comes from.

We could use the same excuse for Crawford.

Harris's B ball IQ is suspect for a PG. I will leave it at that.

What excuse? 15 shots to get 25 points on 49% is not chucking. He gets to the line 11 times a game. Let me know when Crawford does anything close to that.

No, he's not a "pure pg". He's in the mold of Tony Parker. That's not necessarily horrible. You can win with someone like Harris as he has gotten to the finals and has a scrubby Nets team 11-9. Tony Parker and other non-pure pgs have all the rings the past 2 decades.

And look at the Nets roster. Besides Wince, who else is going to shoot the ball?

[Deeeez Knicks]

I want to clear something up.

"Chucking" is when you take a lot of bad, low percentage shots. When Crawford is shooting 33% from 3 and pulls up from 25 feet with 20 seconds on the shot clock that is chucking. Devin Harris trying to create shots, draw contact/fouls, and open up the defense is not chucking. Not when he's shooting 49% and getting to the line 11 times a game. It might not be solid pg play, but that is VERY EFFECTIVE especially when it has the Nets at 11-9.

I am pretty sure people would label Jordan a chucker.

[TKF]

I wasn't sure where this Knick hating was coming from and then this Harris discussion gained steam, and somewhere between last night Harris support and Knick hating kinda joined together, or at least I felt it did. Maybe I overreacted. Just to make things clear, I'm not OptimusADL.

I think Harris case is interesting for us Knicks fans because he is reminds people of Marbury and Crawford, and there is a lot of emotion intermingled there.

Are you kidding me? The guy was kicking our ass...you think I'm gonna say, damn at least he's killing his offense? No I'm gonna say the truth and say that Harris kicked our ass...he can chuck as much as he damn wants, but if you're giving him a chance to go 6 of 6, that's on us. We didn't lay him out, or play defense on him. So no, I don't agree, and label me a Knick hater guys because I don't agree with this policy of blind support, this labeling of others as haters because they say what they see...I'll support the team when it does the things right, and I'll say when I feel it's doing something wrong. You can even label me as someone who called Harrington a chucker, even though I never did, just so you can say that I'm not being objective.

If you're being objective and label Harris a chucker for having an efficient game, then by all means label Harrington for being a chucker for having an efficient game. By all means, do so.

really, I don't know what point you are arguing.... the discussion came about because I at first asked. does Harris even run an offense? after that all the, why should he pass, you are a hater, he is killing us LOL, D'antoni is a gimmick, comments started.. clearly this was not about complimenting harris starting off well, but more of rooting vs the knicks, because it supports certain posters disdain for walsh and D'antoni.. simple and plain..

You can erect a shrine to Harris for all I care, but as you mention blind support, what about blind hate?( not implying you were doing that) no why you are going on this tangent, I don't know.. Feel free to celebrate someone going 6-6 all you want.. but I find it odd how the same people, even mike breen who were wetting their pants over his 6-6 start, were quiet as a mouse when he went 6-16 with 5 TO's right after, and he started forcing some shots vs a much taller and longer wilson chandler... But that is my point, it almost seemed as if certain posters got upset when harris went cold... root for a good performance, fine, but don't root for your team to get beat down.. (not saying you are doing this) and some find joy in doing this.. Believe me, if the nets were playing the kings and I made the same comment, it would be no argument at all.. Let nate robinson come out and take 6 shots without making a pass, even if he makes all 6, there would not be all of this bed wetting over nate, instead of appreciating him being hot, he would get cricified.. I just turned the tables and it proves my point right.... It wasn't to bash harris.. It could have been any other player running point for any other team that night...

The funny thing is, if harris 6-6 explosion was so impresive to these posters, why no comments on Harrington who was absolutely abusing the nets all night and had a much better and much more effective game than harris? Not one comment? I mean their intentions with the comments are very transparent.... Instead we get threads to ignore harringtons good play and look deeper in the numbers......

[GuyverADL]

really, I don't know what point you are arguing.... the discussion came about because I at first asked. does Harris even run an offense? after that all the, why should he pass, you are a hater, he is killing us LOL, D'antoni is a gimmick, comments started.. clearly this was not about complimenting harris starting off well, but more of rooting vs the knicks, because it supports certain posters disdain for walsh and D'antoni.. simple and plain..

You can erect a shrine to Harris for all I care, but as you mention blind support, what about blind hate?( not implying you were doing that) no why you are going on this tangent, I don't know.. Feel free to celebrate someone going 6-6 all you want.. but I find it odd how the same people, even mike breen who were wetting their pants over his 6-6 start, were quiet as a mouse when he went 6-16 with 5 TO's right after, and he started forcing some shots vs a much taller and longer wilson chandler... But that is my point, it almost seemed as if certain posters got upset when harris went cold... root for a good performance, fine, but don't root for your team to get beat down.. (not saying you are doing this) and some find joy in doing this.. Believe me, if the nets were playing the kings and I made the same comment, it would be no argument at all.. Let nate robinson come out and take 6 shots without making a pass, even if he makes all 6, there would not be all of this bed wetting over nate, instead of appreciating him being hot, he would get cricified.. I just turned the tables and it proves my point right.... It wasn't to bash harris.. It could have been any other player running point for any other team that night...

The funny thing is, if harris 6-6 explosion was so impresive to these posters, why no comments on Harrington who was absolutely abusing the nets all night and had a much better and much more effective game than harris? Not one comment? I mean their intentions with the comments are very transparent.... Instead we get threads to ignore harringtons good play and look deeper in the numbers......

I think we need to stop with the "hater" label.

I dont hate anyone.

I haven't really cared for any of Walsh's moves except for the Crawford trade and the Duhon signing.

D'Atankin has been comedy relief for me really.

Some people are acting like they work for the Knick's PR department.

[2010orBUST]

So how does this prove he is effective? There are plenty of defensive guards in the league. He played good defense, but for all that hot shooting he was doing in the start, then to go cold and not get his team invovled trying to win the game by himself, does not show efficiency. He is not a point guard. He is a Shooting Guard. He doesn't get his team in the flow of the offense. Vince Carter sets up more people than Devin Harris. I know your going to say hey, but he is avg. 7 assist game. He only passes the ball when he sees fit, not when it is the best time to set up his plays for the team like a good pure point guard (see Chris Duhon). Thats why people have a problem with our ex boy Stephon "Money Bags" Marbury. He avg. 8 assist a game for his career, along with 20 points. Those assist don't come from him setting his team up at the right time, but just like Harris he passes the ball when it best suits him.

exactly, and why this thread? what does it prove.. No one said, you couldn't comment on how well harris starter off. I mentioned it was funny how people are going crazy(because it is vs the knicks) yet when other guys like harrington, or nate, or crawford or even marbury did the same thing.. and believe me, they have.. then they are nuts, chuckers etc... I just find that odd...

Harris last night did what most SG's playing the PG spot do.. they look for their offense first, and pass as a last resort... it is all cool.. he had a decent game, nothing like the game carmelo had(which was electric), but since carmelo didn't do it vs the knicks, I am sure some posters didn't enjoy it as much...

Co-sign.