TKF's keys to the loss

[Galvationknicks]

lol we would play zone if we had a shotblocker

Why are you lol'ing... I've been saying we should play zone (in stretches) for weeks now! So what's your point?

Loling bc lee isnt a tweener he can guard back you down 4s but not finesse players and once again hes guarding someone 3-5 inches taller and it doesnt help him much

[TKF]

I dont think Robinson is the problem. He is just getting WAY too many minutes.

The guy plays like Mike James and should be playing MAX 25-30 minutes a night.

nate is good in spurts, but when he gets out of control, you HAVE to sit him, because it doesn't get any better... playing him and Al too many minutes will kill you long term..

[GuyverADL]

You veering way off to make excuses for Lee's weak defense. Kurt Thomas played great position defense and battled for position. My beef with Lee is that he didn't put up a fight -- he simply said, "Be gentle. Please don't hurt me."

Lee doesnt play defense. This is not a new develoipment. This is why when I hear about him adding a 3 I just think . Didnt we already have Randolph?

[StutterStep]

Yeah but Odom would have to guard Lee and that aint a good matchup for Odom either. Also if we had a shotblocker, it doesnt have to mean Lee doesnt guard the center. It just means he would have better weakside help. A shotblocker doesnt have to be a 7 foot center, there are guys who could play PF and block shots.

So this shotblocker would be guarding Odom? How exactly does that work on the perimeter and then have to help Lee on the post?

Lee is not a good matchup for Odom? The same Odom who swatted his shot (at least once tonight)?

[Galvationknicks]

You ever heard of weak-side defense? Chandler is our best weak-side defender but that's not a good sign because in no way can he be depended to get blocks on guys like Pau.

Lee is doing much much more than I expected from him. He reminds me of Kurt Thomas; solid rebounders but they both guarded the opposing team's post player and were too small to be a threat to block shots. Lee may be a tweener but if he wasn't, don't you think first of all we never would of had him in the first place?

You veering way off to make excuses for Lee's weak defense. Kurt Thomas played great position defense and battled for position. My beef with Lee is that he didn't put up a fight -- he simply said, "Be gentle. Please don't hurt me."

You cant battle 4 positon in this whack nba era bc of mr stern when lee did battle 4 position the call a foul.

[GuyverADL]

I dont think Robinson is the problem. He is just getting WAY too many minutes.

The guy plays like Mike James and should be playing MAX 25-30 minutes a night.

nate is good in spurts, but when he gets out of control, you HAVE to sit him, because it doesn't get any better... playing him and Al too many minutes will kill you long term..

If you notice his slump started when he actually tried to play like a PG. He would make passes and actually setup the offense.

Seems he cant do both.

[Knicksfan1]

You veering way off to make excuses for Lee's weak defense. Kurt Thomas played great position defense and battled for position. My beef with Lee is that he didn't put up a fight -- he simply said, "Be gentle. Please don't hurt me."

Lee doesnt play defense. This is not a new develoipment. This is why when I hear about him adding a 3 I just think . Didnt we already have Randolph?

What does adding a 3 mean ?

[StutterStep]

lol we would play zone if we had a shotblocker

Why are you lol'ing... I've been saying we should play zone (in stretches) for weeks now! So what's your point?

I hate zones..

So do I, but our defense is so bad that we need to at least try a match-up when guys like Kobe are going off, or Pau is standing in the post one-on-one vs Lee.

[omerome]

You ever heard of weak-side defense? Chandler is our best weak-side defender but that's not a good sign because in no way can he be depended to get blocks on guys like Pau.

Lee is doing much much more than I expected from him. He reminds me of Kurt Thomas; solid rebounders but they both guarded the opposing team's post player and were too small to be a threat to block shots. Lee may be a tweener but if he wasn't, don't you think first of all we never would of had him in the first place?

You veering way off to make excuses for Lee's weak defense. Kurt Thomas played great position defense and battled for position. My beef with Lee is that he didn't put up a fight -- he simply said, "Be gentle. Please don't hurt me."

I'm not making excuses. I already know that Lee is not a great defender. I simply stated that David Lee and Kurt Thomas were in a similar situation in that they are natural and undersized PFs who are forced to defend guys who are bigger and stronger than them. Lee did all he could against Pau but obviously Pau had a better night and that's why I really thought he deserved the allstar nod; he sure played like one.

I just don't understand why you are making Lee something he isn't. You expect him to be a lock-down defender or something? Not everyone is capable of doing so. Lee tried but was outmatched, got called for some real questionable fouls, and Kobe had the hot hand. Add all those together and it's a loss for us.

[TheBluest]

I know TKF is upset I understand. I've subliminally been called out before so it doesn't hurt me one bit, probably won't be the last. I relished this game for the simple fact of having to bear the brunt several weeks for criticizing Kobe... the opinion he's a selfish overrated player but as soon as he comes to the Garden and drops 61 it's ok to trash him? I still feel he's overrated. Uhmmm but let's be consistent here, as I've always asked. Kobe played like Kobe of 2006-2007.... straight gunner out to put on a show on the biggest stage because Punk Azzz New Yorkers eat it up. I've questioned Garden fans for the longest time and the fanbase overall....simply put ours is trash. We complain and whine when things don't go our way and when they do it's supposed to be this way because we're the New York Knicks. Please go on with that mess. IMO Gallo is clumsy you can call attribute it to lack of strength or whatever but it's and adventure with him doing things one-on-one with the basketball off the dribble.

I want Nate gone

NO SHARRINGTON is Stingy as ever

Lee tries his best every night

Duhon is an average point guard

Q is garbage

Effries is not the key for us in any aspect of the game

Tim Thomas is Blah!

A lot of what I say is true it's always trashed in the beginning until someone sees fit to reflect the same thoughts weeks or months later.

bluest, no one is trashing kobe... So to make it seem as if you are onto somthing here that the rest of are not, is a bit over the top.. No one is trashing kobe.... Just this game and his 61 points was a typical kobe of old, game.. Not the kobe that has elevated his team to a consistent contender.. I said I was not that impressed with his game tonight because to me it was one of the more selfish games I have seen from him and he was getting the benefit of the refs wearing Kobe jerseys.. the 81 points vs the raps were scored on raptors team that stopped defending him. tonight he was being defended hard andhe was forcing shots.. they went in.. no suprise. kobe can do that.



.

I've subliminally been called out before so it doesn't hurt me one bit, probably won't be the last. I relished this game for the simple fact of having to bear the brunt several weeks for criticizing Kobe.

sorry to dissapoint,but there is nothing here to relish....

It wasn't implied to say you're the one trashing Kobe but if you look at the game thread Kobe was getting trashed. But people enjoyed LOL @ me saying I'd rather have K-Mart over him because I'd prefer a player who gets his within the system, when I admitted Kobe was the best player in the NBA. Well I enjoyed watching Kobe selfishly take a little of their(fans) heart tonight. He only confirmed why I can't stand him. Is cold blooded and an Assassin yes most certainly. If you give him an inch he'll shove the rest inside and skeet on you but more times than not it's a Self Quest. Just like you weren't impressed with his 61pts I''m even less impressed with his career overall. Did you watch his 81pt performance even less impressive if you watched it from start to finish. He breaks Jordan's record and here we go Kobe=Jordan. Jordan was SWAG Kobe wants to be SWAG this is ALWAYS AND FOREVER!

[Galvationknicks]

You veering way off to make excuses for Lee's weak defense. Kurt Thomas played great position defense and battled for position. My beef with Lee is that he didn't put up a fight -- he simply said, "Be gentle. Please don't hurt me."

Lee doesnt play defense. This is not a new develoipment. This is why when I hear about him adding a 3 I just think . Didnt we already have Randolph?

What does adding a 3 mean ?

I really hope they were joking a bout lee with a 3 but he needs to work on muscling up and perfecting the mid-range bf adding that 3. Remember the dunk he had in the lane and the went to D'tony and he talked to the coaching staff "you created a offensive machine"

[RHODEY]

yea, but was that to start off his career? I am not sure. that is the record, but not what we are looking for... thanks tho..

For a rook? Well I'm not 100% sure but I think its:

51 straight Chauncey Billups, Toronto Raptors, 2/22-4/3/1998 (one season)

[TheBluest]

I dont think Robinson is the problem. He is just getting WAY too many minutes.

The guy plays like Mike James and should be playing MAX 25-30 minutes a night.

nate is good in spurts, but when he gets out of control, you HAVE to sit him, because it doesn't get any better... playing him and Al too many minutes will kill you long term..

If you notice his slump started when he actually tried to play like a PG. He would make passes and actually setup the offense.

Seems he cant do both.

It's hard to juggle bowling ball pins on a unicycle

when you are trying to swing from a trapeze

lighting up a 5ft Ring on fire 90ft below with your mouth

landing on a Siberian and Bengal Tiger one leg on each back

while tossing peanuts at the Elephants trunk

concluded with a 3ft toss in a barrel.

[StutterStep]

I'm not making excuses. I already know that Lee is not a great defender. I simply stated that David Lee and Kurt Thomas were in a similar situation in that they are natural and undersized PFs who are forced to defend guys who are bigger and stronger than them. Lee did all he could against Pau but obviously Pau had a better night and that's why I really thought he deserved the allstar nod; he sure played like one.

I just don't understand why you are making Lee something he isn't. You expect him to be a lock-down defender or something? Not everyone is capable of doing so. Lee tried but was outmatched, got called for some real questionable fouls, and Kobe had the hot hand. Add all those together and it's a loss for us.

Below is my 1st post on Lee in this thread! How am I making him to be something he is not? I find it odd that every poster (including YOU) who replied in this thread took exception to my analysis of Lee but nothing or not much else.

--David Lee. Yes, I know the focus is Kobe's 61, but at least he worked for most of those. Pau Gasol abused Lee like he was his foster child. Lee was either letting Pau set up 10ft from the basket, or letting him block his shots like a volleyball spiker. The Lee fans need to really cool the nonsense and stop overrating the dude. I would like to keep him because I hate trading youth (see Ariza as an example) only to have them develop elsewhere, but let's stop acting like he's a force. He is not.

[Luv those Knicks]

Good recap TKF. Good read too, as I missed the game. Nice writeup on Gallo. He's the youngest player on the team and coming off an injury. Gotta give him time.

21-26 is better than most anybody expected and playoffs are still within reach.

Go Knicks.

[KnicksGod]

Well, at least in this thread, I will be the bearer of bad news. If this is the kind of heart and resolve we show when faced with the adversity that is called a "better" team, then Donnie needs to make some trades and/or not re-sign our players.

I'm not the only one who feels that they quit because MikeD alluded to it in the post-game press conference. It's really simple: we quit then had to be coaxed into perking back up throughout the game. That is not acceptable.

The Following Are NOT ACCEPTABLE!
--Fans cheering Kobe (or any other player) throughout.

--MikeD starting Q on Kobe to give him the opportunity to get in the flow. Yes, Chandler got lit up the rest of the way, but as everyone know it's all about establishing a rhythm. We might as well call Q, The Drum, because dude let players beat on him to establish the rhythm early every game.

--David Lee. Yes, I know the focus is Kobe's 61, but at least he worked for most of those. Pau Gasol abused Lee like he was his foster child. Lee was either letting Pau set up 10ft from the basket, or letting him block his shots like a volleyball spiker. The Lee fans need to really cool the nonsense and stop overrating the dude. I would like to keep him because I hate trading youth (see Ariza as an example) only to have them develop elsewhere, but let's stop acting like he's a force. He is not.

--Nate. We go as he goes, much like Crawford. But nights like this make me want to trade him to GSW. Run the offense. Penetrate to dish. Real simple concepts!

--Danilo. Rookie so he gets a pass on all things except that he (as of now) is a tweener. Tweeners just do not elevate their team. Look at our other tweeners: Nate, Q, TiTties, Harrington, Lee, etc... As my homie said tonight, "Knicks only have ONE player that is suited for his position: Duhon." That is a freaking shame!

--Donnie. You got rid of the contracts, now bring in some guys who can actually play their position!

Losing to the Lakers is acceptable, but QUITTING on the floor is NOT!

EDIT: I forgot Chandler because he deserves better than this! The only guy who showed heart throughout tonight.

I concur with this post. It's good to see that they stayed in the game for most of the game, but I thought they got intimidated and stopped playing with energy (ball movement and aggressive defense, knocking balls away, etc.) once Kobe got red hot. They wilted some.

And I also agree that Lee showed some really troubling defense tonight. There were a couple of occasions where he stood around and didn't even make an attempt to play D. He got abused inside - half the problem of the roster with no real big but the other half is Lee being a very poor defender and having bad defensive instincts.

[TheBluest]

Through all of this I forgot to say Stutter pretty good breakdown.

[Galvationknicks]

I'm not making excuses. I already know that Lee is not a great defender. I simply stated that David Lee and Kurt Thomas were in a similar situation in that they are natural and undersized PFs who are forced to defend guys who are bigger and stronger than them. Lee did all he could against Pau but obviously Pau had a better night and that's why I really thought he deserved the allstar nod; he sure played like one.

I just don't understand why you are making Lee something he isn't. You expect him to be a lock-down defender or something? Not everyone is capable of doing so. Lee tried but was outmatched, got called for some real questionable fouls, and Kobe had the hot hand. Add all those together and it's a loss for us.

Below is my 1st post on Lee in this thread! How am I making him to be something he is not? I find it odd that every poster (including YOU) who replied in this thread took exception to my analysis of Lee but nothing or not much else.

--David Lee. Yes, I know the focus is Kobe's 61, but at least he worked for most of those. Pau Gasol abused Lee like he was his foster child. Lee was either letting Pau set up 10ft from the basket, or letting him block his shots like a volleyball spiker. The Lee fans need to really cool the nonsense and stop overrating the dude. I would like to keep him because I hate trading youth (see Ariza as an example) only to have them develop elsewhere, but let's stop acting like he's a force. He is not.

I think bc you sed stop overrating him. He's not that overrated if he left this team no1 would avg 10+ boards yes we know he cant defend well but like everyone sed he's guarding the other teams CENTER. When starts to guard some regualar 4s on a daily basis we will see how bad he really is. He is above avg on offense and below avg to avg on D so far guarding 5s. i dont think thats overrating him i think thats what he is. Atleast he tries.

[HEZI]

So this shotblocker would be guarding Odom? How exactly does that work on the perimeter and then have to help Lee on the post?

Lee is not a good matchup for Odom? The same Odom who swatted his shot (at least once tonight)?

I dont get what a blocked shot has to do with anything really. Chandler swatted Kobes shot, what does that mean?

Plus your looking too much into it man, its like your thinking that only the Knicks have to face matchup problems. Even the very good teams in this league face their share of matchup problems, even the Knicks give other teams matchup problems, thats the NBA. Look at the Hornets with West and Chandler, West is the same size as Lee and plays the same amount of defense, and Chandler is a twig with good weakside shotblocking ability but average 1 on 1 defense and horrible perimeter defense. The Magic have Dwight Howard in the paint but Rashard Lewis as his next best bigman. The point is, you can get away with matchup problems as long as you find the right mix, and right now Lee is not the problem you are making him out to be, he just doesnt have the right piece next to him.

[omerome]

I'm not making excuses. I already know that Lee is not a great defender. I simply stated that David Lee and Kurt Thomas were in a similar situation in that they are natural and undersized PFs who are forced to defend guys who are bigger and stronger than them. Lee did all he could against Pau but obviously Pau had a better night and that's why I really thought he deserved the allstar nod; he sure played like one.

I just don't understand why you are making Lee something he isn't. You expect him to be a lock-down defender or something? Not everyone is capable of doing so. Lee tried but was outmatched, got called for some real questionable fouls, and Kobe had the hot hand. Add all those together and it's a loss for us.

Below is my 1st post on Lee in this thread! How am I making him to be something he is not? I find it odd that every poster (including YOU) who replied in this thread took exception to my analysis of Lee but nothing or not much else.

--David Lee. Yes, I know the focus is Kobe's 61, but at least he worked for most of those. Pau Gasol abused Lee like he was his foster child. Lee was either letting Pau set up 10ft from the basket, or letting him block his shots like a volleyball spiker. The Lee fans need to really cool the nonsense and stop overrating the dude. I would like to keep him because I hate trading youth (see Ariza as an example) only to have them develop elsewhere, but let's stop acting like he's a force. He is not.

You said that Lee didn't battle tonight and that's what I'm disagreeing with. To say that means you expect way more than what Lee is capable of doing right now.

Lee had his hands full with Pau as do the majority of the opposition he is up against. Pau isn't some random scrub or anything, he is a legit big man who has the privilege of playing with the best player in the league. So even trying to bring a defender to help Lee out is pointless because you wouldn't want to double team him....not with Kobe still on the court.

And no I'm not overrating Lee. I know that a big weakness of his is on the defensive end. It's pretty obvious but the times when he does hold his own, the referees do have the tendency to call a foul they 'think' happened instead of one that 'did' happen. So because of that, an already weak defender gets in foul trouble on a team that is severely lacking on serviceable big men...