Yahoo: No Twolves buyout, Rubio to sign 6 year contract.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #161 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 7:57 pm

In reference to drafting Rubio, I don't get the Kahn bashing. You HAVE TO take a risk on a player like that, regardless of the situation. But whatever, let's say he doesn't take Rubio. Then Don Nelson becomes an idiot for taking him at 7. What if he passes on him too? Is Donnie a fool now?

At what point was it right to take Rubio?

kosmovitelli · Post #162 » by **kosmovitelli** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 8:02 pm

knicks742 wrote:But Kos, none of this was new. All of these facts were out there before he entered the draft. The only variable was what team he went to. Maybe he never meant to come to the NBA this early and he was looking for a way out of DKV regardless of who drafted him or maybe he didn't like where he is going to play and he doesn't want to give up all of that to go there. Those are the only 2 reasonable options if one assumes that him and his family had a serious deliberation about the NBA before he entered the draft and would have discussed all the possibilities.

Nothing was new but there were unknown variables like his draft position and the potential endorsement deals he could get with his NBA team.

Also let's not forget the kid's only 18. I think there's a good chance he was lied to by his NBA Agent (Dan Fegan) and Fegan told him it was a piece of cake and it will be easy for him to join the NBA this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Fegan told him he could help him being drafted in the top 3 (it's Fegan who probably asked him not to work out for certain teams).

You have a point with Rubio not wanting to play for DVK again. He obviously wanted out as he was paid less than 100,000 euros per season. I think he wanted to play in the NBA but he really couldn't this year. David Kahn knew there were good chances he would have to wait for Rubio and he accepted to take the gamble. Nobody knows right now if Rubio was worth it.

I really don't think it's about refusing to play for Minny or a small market team but more about Rubio having to pay most of the buy-out in future deals (nba contract and endorsements).
Frankly if I was offered the same choice : surrender endorsement deals, a percentage of my salary and cash to play with the Wolves this season or being paid 2 million euros per season the next two years and only pay $500,000 to buy out my contract in two years I would do the same if I was Rubio.

To make a correct assessment on Rubio and his desire to play for Minny, we'd have to know everything about the agreement David Kahn reached with DVK (how much money Rubio would have to surrender) and the contract with Barcelona (the exact net salary, the exact buy-out amount in 2011, the potential of the club : who is the coach of Barcelona, is he a proven coach who developed PGs in the past, etc.). From a basketball and player development point of view, maybe it makes more sense for him to play for Barcelona the next two seasons.
I think there were lots of factors involved in the decision and we really don't know what pushed Ricky to pick Barcelona. Obviously money and family but there may be other important factors (like the coach of Barcelona, the players he will play with, maybe he knows them and feels chemistry won't be a problem and in Barcelona the pressure won't be as big as it would be in Minny).
Let's not forget Rubio's only 18 and let's not act like he predicted all this and never wanted to play in the NBA or Minny.
The kid waited until september to sign with Barcelona, he knew end of june the Wolves had his rights and considering the way Kahn talked about him, he knew very well Kahn wouldn't trade his rights. It's only my opinion and it's based on everything I read and the events that happened but I think the kid had a genuine interest in Minny and really wanted to play for the Wolves (or any team that had his rights and where he felt he could fulfill his potential, he refused to play for Memphis but it was more because they had Conley and Mayo and not because it was a small market team) but it made more sense to let Barcelona play the full buy-out amount, remain close to home, be paid two millions euros per season and join the NBA in 2011.

David Kahn invested so much time with Rubio and it became a saga to the point Rubio probably felt Minny would still welcome him with open arms in 2011 and there was no risk for him staying in Spain two more seasons. If he has a career ending injury, he has a six-year lucrative contract (instead of a four year rookie contract) and if he develops into a top talent PG then he has an opt out in two seasons and he can join the NBA. Some may think that if he becomes a franchise player for Barcelona then Rubio could get more money in Europe (and would hate being locked with a rookie scale contract) but he has an opt out clause only for the NBA. Basically in 2011, either he stays with Barcelona under the same contract (four more years with Barcelona) or he opts out and signs with Minnesota (a four year rookie scale contract).

Post #163 » by **Capn'O** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 8:08 pm

kosmovitelli wrote:
knicks742 wrote:But Kos, none of this was new. All of these facts were out there before he entered the draft. The only variable was what team he went to. Maybe he never meant to come to the NBA this early and he was looking for a way out of DKV regardless of who drafted him or maybe he didn't like where he is going to play and he doesn't want to give up all of that to go there. Those are the only 2 reasonable options if one assumes that him and his family had a serious deliberation about the NBA before he entered the draft and would have discussed all the possibilities.

Nothing was new but there were unknown variables like his draft position and the potential endorsement deals he could get with his NBA team.

Also let's not forget the kid's only 18. I think there's a good chance he was lied to by his NBA Agent (Dan Fegan) and Fegan told him it was a piece of cake and it will be easy for him to join the NBA this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Fegan told him he could help him being drafted in the top 3 (it's Fegan who probably asked him not to work out for certain teams).

True enough.

He has probably had a LOT of misinformation to sift through - agents, parents, his interested team etc. acting on various interests. Perhaps it is best to refer to the Rubio camp as opposed to just him... perhaps moreso than his game, he is clearly not ready for this amount of financial responsibility and perhaps hanging close to home will be best for him.

funkatron101 · Post #164 » by **funkatron101** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 8:09 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:In reference to drafting Rubio, I don't get the Kahn bashing. You HAVE TO take a risk on a player like that, regardless of the situation. But whatever, let's say he doesn't take Rubio. Then Don Nelson becomes an idiot for taking him at 7. What if he passes on him too? Is Donnie a fool now?

At what point was it right to take Rubio?

stop making sense.

PS. You too kosmovitelli.

midtown · Post #165 » by **midtown** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 8:31 pm

funkatron101 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:In reference to drafting Rubio, I don't get the Kahn bashing. You HAVE TO take a risk on a player like that, regardless of the situation. But whatever, let's say he doesn't take Rubio. Then Don Nelson becomes an idiot for taking him at 7. What if he passes on him too? Is Donnie a fool now?

At what point was it right to take Rubio?

stop making sense.

PS. You too kosmovitelli.

RR in NY would have ended in a deal months ago . Endorsement $'s galore

Post #166 » by **Capn'O** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 8:46 pm

kosmovitelli wrote:
Capn'O wrote:What Kahn says publicly is sounding like damage control and posters here questioning if Kahn did his due diligence in thinking this situation through and exploring all opportunities are quite warranted.

Not really. I think he explored all opportunities. And I'd like to point out that there's a war room for every team on draft night. Some fans act like it's only one man doing everything and making the decision but there are several executives involved in the process and they discuss everything. Kahn made the final decision but obviously the Wolves front office (and maybe the owner Glen Taylor) discussed the matter. I read what Kahn said the day after the draft and nothing changed. He never acted like it was a slam dunk Rubio would join Minny this season. He knew the risks. He said the day after the draft "We may have to wait a year, or even two, but he is worth the wait. We must be patient."

FWIW, my criticism of Kahn above has less to do with the Rubio pick and more with - what seems to me to be - a lack of preparation/innovation over what to do with the non-Rubio pick. Sure it may have been his plan to trade all of their SGs then draft Rubio, then Flynn but I don' think it was a good plan.

Their combination of moves - the initial trade, what they ended up doing with their picks, and moves they have made since - is what confounds me rather than any move in isolation.

funkatron101 · Post #167 » by **funkatron101** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 9:06 pm

Capn'O wrote:
kosmovitelli wrote:
Capn'O wrote:What Kahn says publicly is sounding like damage control and posters here questioning if Kahn did his due diligence in thinking this situation through and exploring all opportunities are quite warranted.

Not really. I think he explored all opportunities. And I'd like to point out that there's a war room for every team on draft night. Some fans act like it's only one man doing everything and making the decision but there are several executives involved in the process and they discuss everything. Kahn made the final decision but obviously the Wolves front office (and maybe the owner Glen Taylor) discussed the matter. I read what Kahn said the day after the draft and nothing changed. He never acted like it was a slam dunk Rubio would join Minny this season. He knew the risks. He said the day after the draft "We may have to wait a year, or even two, but he is worth the wait. We must be patient."

FWIW, my criticism of Kahn above has less to do with the Rubio pick and more with - what seems to me to be - a lack of preparation/innovation over what to do with the non-Rubio pick. Sure it may have been his plan to trade all of their SGs then draft Rubio, then Flynn but I don' think it was a good plan.

Their combination of moves - the initial trade, what they ended up doing with their picks, and moves they have made since - is what confounds me rather than any move in isolation.

Obviously with Rubio staying for another two years, makes the Flynn pick seem more like a wise idea. Does it not?

funkatron101 · Post #168 » by **funkatron101** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 9:08 pm

midtown wrote:
funkatron101 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:In reference to drafting Rubio, I don't get the Kahn bashing. You HAVE TO take a risk on a player like that, regardless of the situation. But whatever, let's say he doesn't take Rubio. Then Don Nelson becomes an idiot for taking him at 7. What if he passes on him too? Is Donnie a fool now?

At what point was it right to take Rubio?

stop making sense.

PS. You too kosmovitelli.

RR in NY would have ended in a deal months ago . Endorsement $'s galore

Minnesota picked him. Get over it.

john2jer · Post #169 » by **john2jer** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 9:10 pm

midtown wrote:
funkatron101 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:In reference to drafting Rubio, I don't get the Kahn bashing. You HAVE TO take a risk on a player like that, regardless of the situation. But whatever, let's say he doesn't take Rubio. Then Don Nelson becomes an idiot for taking him at 7. What if he passes on him too? Is Donnie a fool now?

At what point was it right to take Rubio?

stop making sense.

PS. You too kosmovitelli.

RR in NY would have ended in a deal months ago . Endorsement $'s galore

How are Jordan Hill and Chris Duhon's endorsements going? Just because you play for a certain team doesn't guarantee endorsement money. But clearly NY didn't want Rubio as they didn't give up the pieces necessary to move up and get him.

GuyverADL · Post #170 » by **GuyverADL** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 9:13 pm

john2jer wrote:How are Jordan Hill and Chris Duhon's endorsements going? Just because you play for a certain team doesn't guarantee endorsement money. But clearly NY didn't want Rubio as they didn't give up the pieces necessary to move up and get him.

Basically.

gstevens · Post #171 » by **gstevens** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 9:20 pm

funkatron101 · Post #172 » by **funkatron101** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 9:21 pm

gstevens wrote:

nyknicks09 · Post #173 » by **nyknicks09** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:02 pm

Capn'O wrote:More facts:

- Generally speaking an NBA player of similar ability to a Euroleague player has a much greater earning potential between salary scale and endorsement potential. Recent recruitment of NBA players by Euro teams throws a slight wrench in this fact but when Euros go to the NBA this is still pretty solid.

- EXCEPT over the first few seasons when the NBA player is tied to a rookie scale contract. This is NOT the case in the Euroleagues.

- The #2 pick can earn considerably more right off the bat than the #5 pick because of how rookie scale contracts are set up

- An NBA team can only contribute $500,000 towards a buyout. Euro teams are not held to the same constraints.

My Analysis:

Though other factors such as proximity to family and development may come into play, Rubio's decision to stay in Spain is likely grounded in finances. Over the long term, his best interest is to come to the NBA for ANY team as that SECOND contract could be close to double what he makes in Europe and the endorsement difference is major. However, the limitations of the Wolves ability to buy him out and the rookie pay scale make him take a large immediate financial hit vs. playing in Barcelona.

Probable fact:

- Rubio could make more money on endorsements in NYC than Minnesota

My Analysis:

If Rubio's camp - or somebody in Rubio's camp - believes this difference to be enough to mitigate the cost of a buyout then it's likely that there could have been a push to move him to one of the biggest markets. However, the rights belong to Kahn and if he doesn't think that he can get value for Rubio then it is his prerogative not to trade him. If Rubio is deserving of a big contract, it is still in Rubio's interest to ultimately end up in the NBA in two years regardless of who he plays for and it is in his interest to keep his public relationship with the Wolves good so he is not seen as any more of a head case down the road.

My Opinion:

Rubio's decision to enter the draft was rather reckless considering the constraints previously mentioned. Though this may not have been his intent, he essentially blackmailed smaller market teams from picking him. The Wolves camp called his bluff but also backed themselves into a corner for the upcoming years with their two picks in terms of their current personnel. On the bright side, they still have the rights to a player with the talent to be a star in the league - possibly the best in the draft - and he will likely play for them if the Wolves do not trade his rights. Rubio is still very young, and as such can be expected to make some reckless decisions but he will have to grow up some to reach his potential both financially and as a player.

You are speaking my language. Best post I have read so far. Your opinion seems reasonable. I don't think that Rubio is upset he got picked by the Wolves. Personally, I think he was not happy he got picked that high when he had in mind that he could end up getting pick 3rd at the least which probably gave him the decision to enter the NBA draft. Signing with Barcelona made that 5th pick look like the 1st pick after he sign that contract with Barcelona which allows him to go to the NBA in 2 years. Here's a quote from R.R. "Ricky Rubio: "Going to Minnesota this season was a risky move. I didn't see it. I would get my life all complicated." Marca.com". He understands the situation and knows that signing with Barcelona was the best option for him at this moment.

EchelonNYK · Post #174 » by **EchelonNYK** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:04 pm

The guys on Around The Horn said the Wolves should've drafted Jordan Hill

HAHA, Hill getting some props 8-)

KnicksChamps · Post #175 » by **KnicksChamps** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:07 pm

echelonNYK wrote:The guys on Around The Horn said the Wolves should've drafted Jordan Hill

HAHA, Hill getting some props

I can't imagine Hill going top 5...

gstevens wrote:

BRILLIANT

EchelonNYK · Post #176 » by **EchelonNYK** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:09 pm

Hill was highly regarded coming out. where were you.

Pharmcat · Post #177 » by **Pharmcat** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:17 pm

hopefully this is now fully over

we had our chance, blew it on draft night

nyknicks09 · Post #178 » by **nyknicks09** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:18 pm

KnicksGod wrote:Come now, nobody can deny that Rubio saying positive things about Minnesota might just might be him being polite. In fact, it's likely. We are all making assumptions, sure, but if you want to gauge the most likely truth, look at people's actions, not their words. Humans do this thing called lying quite a bit, and particularly to the media, they're going to shade the truth and hide behind cliches.

It's kind of like LeBron's "I'm not ashamed of Cleveland" remarks ... yes I went there. There is a big difference between not hating something and wanting something. In 2 years, the Wolves have nothing close to a lock on Rubio because he still won't be excited about playing in Minny in 2 years.

By Kahn's own words, and Jovenut's, they HAD a deal struck to bring Rubio to the U.S. Therefore if that was his number one choice, he'd already be here. And even if he is interested in the NBA (which I'm sure he is at some level), the fact that he doesn't have the confidence to make the leap when the deal was already done to bring him here ... well that's a very bad sign of his confidence/desire to succeed in the NBA, his reliability, and his true intentions.

Wow just wow. What do you want him to do? Pull a Marbury or Jennings on the Wolves and say negative things about the Wolves franchise. Not happening bro. European players have class and understand the business part of basketball. In the long run this will help Rubio's situation cause is a 2 party business here and both party have to be in the same page as far as business goes. I'm pretty sure that Rubio and the Wolves will part ways in peace if the Wolves have a change of plan with Rubio but we all know that the Wolves have his rights and Rubio understands that as far as playing in the NBA right now. Rubio can't blame the Wolves for picking him and wanting him to play for their franchise. Is their right to do so and Rubio understands that. Lets stop with all these make believe fantasies of Rubio not wanting to play in Minny. Rubio's future to play in the NBA is playing in Minny first and that's a fact either he likes it or not.

towelie · Post #179 » by **towelie** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:23 pm

Obviously with Rubio staying for another two years, makes the Flynn pick seem more like a wise idea. Does it not?

Uh, absolutely not.

Kahn is basically grooming his #6 pick in the draft to be a stopgap for when his little international "superstar" comes aboard. No one wants to be told, in any career, that you're only here till we get your superior to replace you. Kahn should look to trade Flynn for a SG/SF and sign or pickup a veteran PG to man the position until Rubio arrives.

GuyverADL · Post #180 » by **GuyverADL** » Tue Sep 1, 2009 10:24 pm

nyknicks09 wrote:Wow just wow. What do you want him to do? Pull a Marbury or Jennings on the Wolves and say negative things about the Wolves franchise. Not happening bro. European players have class and understand the business part of basketball. In the long run this will help Rubio's situation cause is a 2 party business here and both party have to be in the same page as far as business goes. I'm pretty sure that Rubio and the Wolves will part ways in peace if the Wolves have a change of plan with Rubio but we all know that the Wolves have his rights and Rubio understands that as far as playing in the NBA right now. Rubio can't blame the Wolves for picking him and wanting him to play for their franchise. Is their right to do so and Rubio understands that. Lets stop with all these make believe fantasies of Rubio not wanting to play in Minny. Rubio's future to play in the NBA is playing in Minny first and that's a fact either he likes it or not.

Jennings plays in FREAKING Milwaukee and hasnt complained he is happy to be in the NBA making money.

Pathetic attempt to put down american players and prop up european players. Milicic is a douche bag and he is European. Only American players play for money I suppose.