The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[JoshuaPotter]

Also what if I told you we are a Claxton away from a modern Dwight Howard era team?

[eyriq]

Claxton is my #1 target.

Slowly but surely everyone here will be whispering "Claxton...Claxton".

I will not rest until every poster is suspiciously our (your) alt.

Your quest for forum domination is tireless

[eyriq]

Also what if I told you we are a Claxton away from a modern Dwight Howard era team?

Claxton is underrated right now imo

[Knightro]

Also what if I told you we are a Claxton away from a modern Dwight Howard era team?

I'd tell you that you were wishfully thinking.

[Knightro]

Including last night Jalen Suggs is up to +3.0 in overall EPM. That is 39th in the NBA. He's 12th in Defensive EPM.

Isaac is 2nd in the NBA in Defensive EPM.

Franz is 31st in Defensive EPM, 34th in total EPM and 27th in Estimated Wins Added. But he's regressed or whatever.

[JoshuaPotter]

Also what if I told you we are a Claxton away from a modern Dwight Howard era team?

I'd tell you that you were wishfully thinking.

Offensively wishful thinking comparison? Yes.

But the Isaac / Suggs / Claxton potential pairing with two good to great F is our new fools gold era incoming.

[eyriq]

Including last night Jalen Suggs is up to +3.0 in overall EPM. That is 39th in the NBA. He's 12th in Defensive EPM.

Isaac is 2nd in the NBA in Defensive EPM.

Franz is 31st in Defensive EPM, 34th in total EPM and 27th in Estimated Wins Added. But he's regressed or whatever.

So regress, much disappoint

Edit: what does this measure think about Paolo?

[Knightro]

Including last night Jalen Suggs is up to +3.0 in overall EPM. That is 39th in the NBA. He's 12th in Defensive EPM.

Isaac is 2nd in the NBA in Defensive EPM.

Franz is 31st in Defensive EPM, 34th in total EPM and 27th in Estimated Wins Added. But he's regressed or whatever.

So regress, much disappoint

Edit: what does this measure think about Paolo?

Not that favorable.

+0.9 Offensive EPM - 86th in NBA
−0.1 Defensive EPM - 186th in NBA
+0.8 Total EPM - 106th in NBA
5.9 Estimated Wins - 61st in NBA

[JoshuaPotter]

Including last night Jalen Suggs is up to +3.0 in overall EPM. That is 39th in the NBA. He's 12th in Defensive EPM.

Isaac is 2nd in the NBA in Defensive EPM.

Franz is 31st in Defensive EPM, 34th in total EPM and 27th in Estimated Wins Added. But he's regressed or whatever.

So regress, much disappoint

Edit: what does this measure think about Paolo?

Not that favorable.

+0.9 Offensive EPM - 86th in NBA
−0.1 Defensive EPM - 186th in NBA
+0.8 Total EPM - 106th in NBA
5.9 Estimated Wins - 61st in NBA

Does it look at the season as a whole? Because we have rolled out some pretty busted SL for weeks at a time.

[eyriq]

Including last night Jalen Suggs is up to +3.0 in overall EPM. That is 39th in the NBA. He's 12th in Defensive EPM.

Isaac is 2nd in the NBA in Defensive EPM.

Franz is 31st in Defensive EPM, 34th in total EPM and 27th in Estimated Wins Added. But he's regressed or whatever.

So regress, much disappoint

Edit: what does this measure think about Paolo?

Not that favorable.

+0.9 Offensive EPM - 86th in NBA
−0.1 Defensive EPM - 186th in NBA
+0.8 Total EPM - 106th in NBA
5.9 Estimated Wins - 61st in NBA

Fascinating. Until these sorts of measures reflect positively on Paolo he's going to catch strays.

The team success narrative based on this would be that we are good because of defense and our defense is good because of Franz and Suggs with contributions from Isaac in limited mins.

That's a fair explanation. Then you wonder where Paolo fits in. Leading the team in counting stats and usage but coming up mid. The offense does suck. Paolo does pass the eye test though. What do these measures miss? A lot for sure, all-in-one measures are simplified models of reality.

[JoshuaPotter]

So regress, much disappoint

Edit: what does this measure think about Paolo?

Not that favorable.

+0.9 Offensive EPM - 86th in NBA
−0.1 Defensive EPM - 186th in NBA
+0.8 Total EPM - 106th in NBA
5.9 Estimated Wins - 61st in NBA

Fascinating. Until these sorts of measures reflect positively on Paolo he's going to catch strays.

The team success narrative based on this would be that we are good because of defense and our defense is good because of Franz and Suggs with contributions from Isaac in limited mins.

That's a fair explanation. Then you wonder where Paolo fits in. Leading the team in counting stats and usage but coming up mid. The offense does suck. Paolo does pass the eye test though. What do these measures miss? A lot for sure, all-in-one measures are simplified models of reality.

While it isn't a lot of noise. Paolo availability has given him the most statistically worse SL vs Suggs and Franz who have played without Paolo 1-2x. So while in theory you want this metric to be better for Paolo to rationalize conclusions and the eye test. You can't help but but say that it may be a little bit of both.

I would be interested if this stat could calculate reliable data with stretches of a season included or omitted. In conclusion, if Paolo's stats here were favorable I would propose without doubt that he is one of the greatest of all time.

[Audi]

Anyone else feel a need to eat crow about Suggs? Not because you were ever particularly low on him or said anything bad - in fact, you always supported him - but simply because you just didn't see such a massive leap in abilities coming?

[MagicMatic]

Anyone else feel a need to eat crow about Suggs? Not because you were ever particularly low on him or said anything bad - in fact, you always supported him - but simply because you just didn't see such a massive leap in abilities coming?

Never doubted him for a minute.

[The-Stallion70]

Also what if I told you we are a Claxton away from a modern Dwight Howard era team?

I'd tell you that you were wishfully thinking.

Offensively wishful thinking comparison? Yes.

But the Isaac / Suggs / Claxton potential pairing with two good to great F is our new fools gold era incoming.

Claxton is not really better than Wendell.

The correct answer to the question of "which player would make us a contender" is

-Healthy Lamelo Ball
-Haliburton
-Maybe Trae

[MagicMatic]

I'd tell you that you were wishfully thinking.

Offensively wishful thinking comparison? Yes.

But the Isaac / Suggs / Claxton potential pairing with two good to great F is our new fools gold era incoming.

Claxton is not really better than Wendell.

The correct answer to the question of "which player would make us a contender" is

-Healthy Lamelo Ball
-Haliburton
-Maybe Trae

Orlando doesn’t have the assets for any of the names you listed unless you are moving Paolo, Franz, or Suggs along with multiple picks.

[The-Stallion70]

Including last night Jalen Suggs is up to +3.0 in overall EPM. That is 39th in the NBA. He's 12th in Defensive EPM.

Isaac is 2nd in the NBA in Defensive EPM.

Franz is 31st in Defensive EPM, 34th in total EPM and 27th in Estimated Wins Added. But he's regressed or whatever.

So regress, much disappoint

Edit: what does this measure think about Paolo?

Not that favorable.

+0.9 Offensive EPM - 86th in NBA
−0.1 Defensive EPM - 186th in NBA
+0.8 Total EPM - 106th in NBA
5.9 Estimated Wins - 61st in NBA

I try to take stats like these with a grain of salt ever since it had Nick Collison up in the top 10 season after season just because he shared the court with KD.

I also suspect that the Celtics'stats look a little better than they really are because they are playing alot of garbage time minutes.

Advanced stats are just one piece of the pie evaluators look at. That's why Paolo made the all star team anyways.

[eyriq]

So regress, much disappoint

Edit: what does this measure think about Paolo?

Not that favorable.

+0.9 Offensive EPM - 86th in NBA
−0.1 Defensive EPM - 186th in NBA
+0.8 Total EPM - 106th in NBA
5.9 Estimated Wins - 61st in NBA

I try to take stats like these with a grain of salt ever since it had Nick Collison up in the top 10 season after season just because he shared the court with KD.

I also suspect that the Celtics'stats look a little better than they really are because they are playing alot of garbage time minutes.

Advanced stats are just one piece of the pie evaluators look at. That's why Paolo made the all star team anyways.

This measured Claxton highly? I'm liking it more and more.

[JoshuaPotter]

Offensively wishful thinking comparison? Yes.

But the Isaac / Suggs / Claxton potential pairing with two good to great F is our new fools gold era incoming.

Claxton is not really better than Wendell.

The correct answer to the question of "which player would make us a contender" is

-Healthy Lamelo Ball
-Haliburton
-Maybe Trae

Orlando doesn’t have the assets for any of the names you listed unless you are moving Paolo, Franz, or Suggs along with multiple picks.

Like I am a huge fan of the Suggs + Black starting backcourt.

But we are otherwise talking about a rookie in Black that can't crack any of Fultz 17mpg in a blowout. That has to otherwise tank his value beyond all reason.

Don't even get me started about farmer Jett Howard.

[MagicMatic]

Claxton is not really better than Wendell.

The correct answer to the question of "which player would make us a contender" is

-Healthy Lamelo Ball
-Haliburton
-Maybe Trae

Orlando doesn’t have the assets for any of the names you listed unless you are moving Paolo, Franz, or Suggs along with multiple picks.

Like I am a huge fan of the Suggs + Black starting backcourt.

But we are otherwise talking about a rookie in Black that can't crack any of Fultz 17mpg in a blowout. That has to otherwise tank his value beyond all reason.

Don't even get me started about farmer Jett Howard.

It does. Which is why we had endless discussions this offseason about how dumb it was to roll out the guard situation this season without making moves.

Fultz should not have been on the roster after extending Cole. There was one of two paths - they either resigned him knowing it was a minutes issue in the future OR they let him walk for nothing. Bad either way.

If they wanted to make the case for a vet then that’s a different story.

[eyriq]

Claxton is not really better than Wendell.

The correct answer to the question of "which player would make us a contender" is

-Healthy Lamelo Ball
-Haliburton
-Maybe Trae

Orlando doesn’t have the assets for any of the names you listed unless you are moving Paolo, Franz, or Suggs along with multiple picks.

Like I am a huge fan of the Suggs + Black starting backcourt.

But we are otherwise talking about a rookie in Black that can't crack any of Fultz 17mpg in a blowout. That has to otherwise tank his value beyond all reason.

Don't even get me started about farmer Jett Howard.

Fultz aura hits too hard, too hard to overcome for any mere rookie, even a goat rookie like Black.