Moderators: UCF, Knightro, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, ChosenSavior, SOUL
RookieStar wrote:Optimus_Steel wrote:eyriq wrote:?t=Dat6CueE06ps_ohju1hrkw&s=19
The Miami record is a shocker. Turns out we are decent against good teams.
Im acutally shocked at PHO... 6-7? They only faced 13x teams in the top 10?? Where almost everyone else faced 20x?
Knightro wrote:Those of us on this board who point out the latter don’t have any sort of agenda. Frankly it’s insulting to suggest that anyone on this board is actively trying to lessen anything this team has accomplished.
- we all have small ones probably in terms of things we'd like to see.
Optimus_Steel wrote:Good point, and as I think further Miami being 3-18… so all wins came against us only????
This isn't that serious. We're just using the "you're haters" argument to win the zeitgeist. Keep playing your chess moves brotherSkybox wrote:Seems to me the bulk of the “hating” on here has always been directed at anyone with any kind of constructive criticism or suggestions that differ from their own vision or “agenda” (such a heavy word to throw around). Banking on internal development of guys who routinely get DNPs isn’t any less radical than suggesting we might benefit from looking outside the present roster for improvement.
The degree of profiling about me (maybe some others) “throwing shade” because I want more for the team is the real bitchfest. The FO has created an admirable salary situation…do you think they did it for no reason? A good fan can be impatient and critical…you do you.
Have a poll as simple as “Has this year been a resounding success and exceeded expectations?” My answer and anyone with any reasonable NBA knowledge says YES.
“Does the future look really bright for ORL?” YES
“Has the ORL FO done an excellent job?” YES
“ was hiring Mose a good move?” YES
See, I’m just a fanboy too
Differing opinions about what’s next or what could have already been upgraded or what ceiling we each see shouldn’t be so upsetting unless one is such a blind lemming that anything questioning their heroes is “Throwing shade”. I can celebrate success with an eye to the future differently…lots of teams surge, Pat themselves on the back and then sink again quickly…look at all of the teams in the East that were ahead of us until this season. You’d think such a high-volume message board would welcome differing opinions…sorry about all the crazy Fultz negativity last year…Got a lot of crap for that too.
SOUL wrote:You don't....
But a not-so-insignificant amount of this board definitely have different small agendas
I find it equally insulting when posters act like our front office/coaches don't know what they're doing either. If you took an aggregate of poster comments here throughout the season and asked 100 random people what our record is just by reading these statements, they'd probably say 20 wins or something. It's not unique to us though, the internet and most sports fandoms have been like this for a while.
You've also had to defend Mose/even the FO at times from clearly ridiculous statements from couch GMs.
I just think you can't bat 1.000 in sports nowadays in terms of team building, stars, coaching, rotations, player improvement, injury luck, contracts, etc - the odds are against you. But I don't think teams luck into good situations either. At the end of the day we're an extremely young team with a winning record and have been solid ever since our bad start last year because of injuries. We have a clearer picture of some guys because of the patient approach we've taken, but it's also hurt us with certain guys obviously, Fultz, etc. But we have great cap space and an enviable situation to be in for many young teams.
I think you're right in pointing out how important it will be in the next year or two for positioning ourselves to take the next step, which is the way harder step. You basically want to compile the most amount of players who you feel confident in their role and effort and production on a day-to-day basis. I only feel comfortable with about 5 of those sort of players right now on the Magic.
But I think there are reasons why certain players aren't playing right now and it's not because coaches don't see certain things. There are reasons why moves aren't made and the front office has also made it aware they know our weaknesses. Nobody here is reinventing the wheel by noticing said weaknesses and saying "I bet we re-sign Fultz and don't sign shooters because our front office doesn't know anything!!!"
Like I said in other posts before, having "faith" in regards to something happening isn't what I'm asking people to have. I'm simply saying saying some opinions on our future roster building is the equivalent of betting a dice rolling a 6 for the fourth time in a row because it did it three times before.
Knightro wrote:SOUL wrote:You don't....
But a not-so-insignificant amount of this board definitely have different small agendas
I find it equally insulting when posters act like our front office/coaches don't know what they're doing either. If you took an aggregate of poster comments here throughout the season and asked 100 random people what our record is just by reading these statements, they'd probably say 20 wins or something. It's not unique to us though, the internet and most sports fandoms have been like this for a while.
You've also had to defend Mose/even the FO at times from clearly ridiculous statements from couch GMs.
I just think you can't bat 1.000 in sports nowadays in terms of team building, stars, coaching, rotations, player improvement, injury luck, contracts, etc - the odds are against you. But I don't think teams luck into good situations either. At the end of the day we're an extremely young team with a winning record and have been solid ever since our bad start last year because of injuries. We have a clearer picture of some guys because of the patient approach we've taken, but it's also hurt us with certain guys obviously, Fultz, etc. But we have great cap space and an enviable situation to be in for many young teams.
I think you're right in pointing out how important it will be in the next year or two for positioning ourselves to take the next step, which is the way harder step. You basically want to compile the most amount of players who you feel confident in their role and effort and production on a day-to-day basis. I only feel comfortable with about 5 of those sort of players right now on the Magic.
But I think there are reasons why certain players aren't playing right now and it's not because coaches don't see certain things. There are reasons why moves aren't made and the front office has also made it aware they know our weaknesses. Nobody here is reinventing the wheel by noticing said weaknesses and saying "I bet we re-sign Fultz and don't sign shooters because our front office doesn't know anything!!!"
Like I said in other posts before, having "faith" in regards to something happening isn't what I'm asking people to have. I'm simply saying saying some opinions on our future roster building is the equivalent of betting a dice rolling a 6 for the fourth time in a row because it did it three times before.
I don't think Jeff Weltman is incompetent. That feels unfair.
But we're also 7 years into his tenure at this point. I do feel like it's accurate to say that he is generally a more risk adverse personnel executive compared to his peers.
I don't think he has done anything in his tenure thus far that should make anyone confident that he's willing to make difficult decisions considering he's literally never had to make one.
Bergmaniac wrote:An awful lot of the improvement of the team this season came not from the young players getting better
eyriq wrote:Bergmaniac wrote:An awful lot of the improvement of the team this season came not from the young players getting better
Ummm
You sure about that?
Yeah, I disagree and think it's absurd. He's 12th in minutes played. He's been negligibly responsible for our wins this season.Bergmaniac wrote:eyriq wrote:Bergmaniac wrote:An awful lot of the improvement of the team this season came not from the young players getting better
Ummm
You sure about that?
Yes, unless we are counting Isaac as a young player despite being 26.
Which part of my post was unclear? Do you disagree that JI being healthy has been a major reason for the improvement of the team?
Looking at win shares and JI makes the cutBergmaniac wrote:eyriq wrote:Bergmaniac wrote:An awful lot of the improvement of the team this season came not from the young players getting better
Ummm
You sure about that?
Yes, unless we are counting Isaac as a young player despite being 26.
Which part of my post was unclear? Do you disagree that JI being healthy has been a major reason for the improvement of the team?
eyriq wrote:Yeah, I disagree and think it's absurd. He's 12th in minutes played. He's been negligibly responsible for our wins this season.
Sorry, not buying the JI is the driver narrative. He doesn't play enough. Sticking with the "best young core of all-time" narrative. Whether with win shares or sweeter vest points or the eye test, their growth is the dominant driver of our success.Knightro wrote:eyriq wrote:Yeah, I disagree and think it's absurd. He's 12th in minutes played. He's been negligibly responsible for our wins this season.
The Magic are 29-17 (.630, 52-win pace) when Jonathan Isaac plays.
They're 10-11 (.476, 39-win pace) when he doesn't play.
They're 14-4 when he plays 16 minutes or more.
They're 9-1 when he plays 19 minutes or more.
His +/- is +138 in 695 minutes.
His net rating is +10.6, which is the best on the team by a mile and ranks 10th in the entire NBA (6 of the guys ahead of him are all Celtics, who are chugging towards 65+ wins).
He's been *incredibly* impactful.
That's wild.Bergmaniac wrote:Without Isaac we most likely would have been around the .500 mark by now (we are 10-11 in the games he missed and we have beaten only 2 teams with winning records in these games). Decent improvement from last season, but nothing to write home about, especially since we played at a similar level in the last months of last season when we weren't blatantly tanking.
This is an argument for him being our secret weapon, someone whose minutes we can drastically increase and drastically tip the scales. It's not an argument for value already added.Knightro wrote:eyriq wrote:Yeah, I disagree and think it's absurd. He's 12th in minutes played. He's been negligibly responsible for our wins this season.
The Magic are 29-17 (.630, 52-win pace) when Jonathan Isaac plays.
They're 10-11 (.476, 39-win pace) when he doesn't play.
They're 14-4 when he plays 16 minutes or more.
They're 9-1 when he plays 19 minutes or more.
His +/- is +138 in 695 minutes.
His net rating is +10.6, which is the best on the team by a mile and ranks 10th in the entire NBA (6 of the guys ahead of him are all Celtics, who are chugging towards 65+ wins).
He's been *incredibly* impactful.
