2023-2024 Regular Season Game 54: Oklahoma City Thunder (36-17) at Orlando Magic (29-24) - 7:30pm

[Skybox]

Just to clarify my rants and "whining"... I don't' care whether this game was a 25 point loss to OKC or a 25 point win over DET...the weaknesses were once again magnified and will only be more so the closer we get to the playoffs.

Our schedule is lightening. Team is in best health of the season...but the Paolo & Franz show has been clearly displayed for a solid "successful" season so far...we will either see opponents (with more tape or more previous games with us) adapt to the obvious scheme to beat us starting now, or we will win games at a nice clip with our limited ceiling, sail into the play-in or even 6th seed (depending on the injury fates of others) and then get trounced. On paper, it will look like a great season and it will be hard to make an argument to those not watching closely. We could have been a LOT better team and made a dent in the playoffs and sent a stronger message, so that maybe we'd have 5 games on national television next year.

My point is, OKC has very little to do with how disappointing the team looks right now...Suggs might go for 30 tonight, but we know that's not a sustainable thing.

No one will convince me that being better is not a good thing...it doesn't have to involve mortgaging the future, especially when the glaring need is so clear. We could have gone big or medium or small and at least took a step forward with out perimeter offense. But we didn't. If our young guards are relegated to the g-league or garbage time...we should have a better quality of players on the roster.

[pepe1991]

Yeah, this is crazy and unacceptable. No one is even looking in Fultz's direction, much less guarding him. Not even a side-eye to his corner.

This is Fultz's 6th year on the roster, Isaac's 7th. They are the two highest-paid players on the team. Welt extended both of them. Presti would never. Honestly, I don't know of another GM in the league who would still be paying these guys $17 mil+ in Year 6 and Year 7.

Presti extended the contract of Andre Roberson who was a worse offensive player than Isaac and the current Fultz.

I think the decision to extend Isaac's contract back in 2020, with the third year only half-guaranteed and the fourth fully non-guaranteed was not a bad one at the time and I could see Presti making it too. We knew Isaac was injury prone and was recovering from an ACL at the time, but nobody expected him to miss two full seasons in a row and then play only 11 games in the next season. Most people on this board at the time thought it was a fair deal.

Roberson was resigned on 3 years ,30M contract during times when they had Westbrook, PG13, Adams, Melo.
They simply had no other options left. Overpayed him, but it was pretty much same money Weltman gave to Aminu ( MLE) in 2019. Both deals had spectacular backfire.

My personal problem with Isaac's exstension isn't just money. It's timing.
Guy blew up his knee in August of 2020, had 0% chance playing 2020-21, was just in third year (finished) and we resigned hiu in December of 2020. Why?
If he just waited a year, bidding against nobody, you could see issues with his recovery and outright give him less.

And as far as stipulations go, only way how you can actually get his salary off books is by cutting him. You can look how many nba contracts were actually terminated. Not many. So whole "not fully guaranteed" is nothing but gimmick.
Only money Isaac actually lost during his multiple years of not playing for team that pays him are extra bonuses. And in mean time, over past 3 years he has been- highest payed Magic player -each and every year.


Fultz' contract situation is even bigger mess. Fultz also had non guaranteed contract for this year. We could simply cut him on June 29th 2023 and dry his guaranteed money to $2 000 000. Once again, we elected to bet on player and his health/continuity/ and here we are, sitting on usless player on expiring money that we failed to even move as expiring money if nothing else.

Isaac is better value on the court. Problem is, Isaac never acutally plays basketball enough where it means anything, and much like Fultz, all contract stipulations are nothing but cosmetic additions that were never option to be used.

Fultz situation is mirror situation with Garry Harris. Picked team's option, allowed him to expire, did nothing . It's pattern of same behavior



I can live with Isaac and every day i hold my breath to see "isaac done for a year" headline. But not moving Harris and Fultz is just so damn mindblowing stupid decision for deadline. I can't see any reasons why they are still on a team.
Gary is shell of former self, Fultz is shorter Ben SImmons without defense. Their on court value is near zero.

[bigdogdylan5]

Idk why I come to this board. The incessant whining is just getting way out of hand I understand venting and frustration but this is something else. We just lost to a top 4 team in the league. We are not on that level yet. This is the best magic season in 10 years and I am going to enjoy it. Peace out

Not sure why are you are fine getting punked on the first nationally televised game in 12 years. People have become to apathetic and allowed the front office to slide by with minimal effort.

Teams get punked all the time… Bucks have gotten punked a lot on national tv this year. We lost to a better team I am sorry it happened during our one national tv game but it’s still one game. Also the magic even when we’re really good are always going to get shafted by attention nationally. We’re Orlando this isn’t news. Getting mad about that is imo counter productive

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Career nights might not be sustainable but they sure do help the opposing team in wins against us.

[Residual-Heat]

OKC expolited non existing offense of Isaac and Fultz



It's getting ridicilous at this point. It's worst than Ben Simmons. Guy is spending time, at 6'3- on dunker's spot or in corner leaving team to play 4 on 5.

Isaac was served with same . He was flat out ignored in corner, as Holmgren kept defending paint instad of him.


In general this is what good teams do to onedimensional players. They take them out of game or leveradge their limitations to their own adventage.

Markelle shouldve been gone a long time ago, but Isaac atleast will take and make corner threes at a decent rate.

[bigdogdylan5]

Just to clarify my rants and "whining"... I don't' care whether this game was a 25 point loss to OKC or a 25 point win over DET...the weaknesses were once again magnified and will only be more so the closer we get to the playoffs.

Our schedule is lightening. Team is in best health of the season...but the Paolo & Franz show has been clearly displayed for a solid "successful" season so far...we will either see opponents (with more tape or more previous games with us) adapt to the obvious scheme to beat us starting now, or we will win games at a nice clip with our limited ceiling, sail into the play-in or even 6th seed (depending on the injury fates of others) and then get trounced. On paper, it will look like a great season and it will be hard to make an argument to those not watching closely. We could have been a LOT better team and made a dent in the playoffs and sent a stronger message, so that maybe we'd have 5 games on national television next year.

My point is, OKC has very little to do with how disappointing the team looks right now...Suggs might go for 30 tonight, but we know that's not a sustainable thing.

No one will convince me that being better is not a good thing...it doesn't have to involve mortgaging the future, especially when the glaring need is so clear. We could have gone big or medium or small and at least took a step forward with out perimeter offense. But we didn't. If our young guards are relegated to the g-league or garbage time...we should have a better quality of players on the roster.

Which is a 100% fair argument. My whining comment wasn’t necessarily you as the focus. I think I am really trying to be patient but even I am reaching the end of my rope that we need to start figuring out the offense. We’re kinda capped and flawed until we give that more attention. I want to really enjoy this season and not take it for granted as I think this team is showing growth. However this front office really does need to start pushing the envelope this offseason. I think better decisions are always made in offseason than knee jerk trade deadline.

With all that being said I think their is way to much focus on the problems then the progress this year on this board. I think acknowledging issues are important but also doing the same with positives.

[Skybox]

Just to clarify my rants and "whining"... I don't' care whether this game was a 25 point loss to OKC or a 25 point win over DET...the weaknesses were once again magnified and will only be more so the closer we get to the playoffs.

Our schedule is lightening. Team is in best health of the season...but the Paolo & Franz show has been clearly displayed for a solid "successful" season so far...we will either see opponents (with more tape or more previous games with us) adapt to the obvious scheme to beat us starting now, or we will win games at a nice clip with our limited ceiling, sail into the play-in or even 6th seed (depending on the injury fates of others) and then get trounced. On paper, it will look like a great season and it will be hard to make an argument to those not watching closely. We could have been a LOT better team and made a dent in the playoffs and sent a stronger message, so that maybe we'd have 5 games on national television next year.

My point is, OKC has very little to do with how disappointing the team looks right now...Suggs might go for 30 tonight, but we know that's not a sustainable thing.

No one will convince me that being better is not a good thing...it doesn't have to involve mortgaging the future, especially when the glaring need is so clear. We could have gone big or medium or small and at least took a step forward with out perimeter offense. But we didn't. If our young guards are relegated to the g-league or garbage time...we should have a better quality of players on the roster.

Which is a 100% fair argument. My whining comment wasn’t necessarily you as the focus. I think I am really trying to be patient but even I am reaching the end of my rope that we need to start figuring out the offense. We’re kinda capped and flawed until we give that more attention. I want to really enjoy this season and not take it for granted as I think this team is showing growth. However this front office really does need to start pushing the envelope this offseason. I think better decisions are always made in offseason than knee jerk trade deadline.

With all that being said I think their is way to much focus on the problems then the progress this year on this board. I think acknowledging issues are important but also doing the same with positives.

Progress is inspiring. I've said before it's harder to enjoy when you've actually got something to lose

Having said that...no way you can call it knee-jerk...it's been the glaring priority for years now.

[eyriq]

I chuckled

Read on Twitter

?t=feX_Ivi672-TllTAsN3BRA&s=19

[eyriq]

Also, Hollinger is biased and I don't understand why. How could he continue to slander Paolo after last night's performance?

Read on Twitter

?t=FdwNiqCoYQjiJT09OaHHrA&s=19

[Audi]

OKC expolited non existing offense of Isaac and Fultz



It's getting ridicilous at this point. It's worst than Ben Simmons. Guy is spending time, at 6'3- on dunker's spot or in corner leaving team to play 4 on 5.

Isaac was served with same . He was flat out ignored in corner, as Holmgren kept defending paint instad of him.


In general this is what good teams do to onedimensional players. They take them out of game or leveradge their limitations to their own adventage.

This will make your head hurt, pepe

[bigdogdylan5]

Just to clarify my rants and "whining"... I don't' care whether this game was a 25 point loss to OKC or a 25 point win over DET...the weaknesses were once again magnified and will only be more so the closer we get to the playoffs.

Our schedule is lightening. Team is in best health of the season...but the Paolo & Franz show has been clearly displayed for a solid "successful" season so far...we will either see opponents (with more tape or more previous games with us) adapt to the obvious scheme to beat us starting now, or we will win games at a nice clip with our limited ceiling, sail into the play-in or even 6th seed (depending on the injury fates of others) and then get trounced. On paper, it will look like a great season and it will be hard to make an argument to those not watching closely. We could have been a LOT better team and made a dent in the playoffs and sent a stronger message, so that maybe we'd have 5 games on national television next year.

My point is, OKC has very little to do with how disappointing the team looks right now...Suggs might go for 30 tonight, but we know that's not a sustainable thing.

No one will convince me that being better is not a good thing...it doesn't have to involve mortgaging the future, especially when the glaring need is so clear. We could have gone big or medium or small and at least took a step forward with out perimeter offense. But we didn't. If our young guards are relegated to the g-league or garbage time...we should have a better quality of players on the roster.

Which is a 100% fair argument. My whining comment wasn’t necessarily you as the focus. I think I am really trying to be patient but even I am reaching the end of my rope that we need to start figuring out the offense. We’re kinda capped and flawed until we give that more attention. I want to really enjoy this season and not take it for granted as I think this team is showing growth. However this front office really does need to start pushing the envelope this offseason. I think better decisions are always made in offseason than knee jerk trade deadline.

With all that being said I think their is way to much focus on the problems then the progress this year on this board. I think acknowledging issues are important but also doing the same with positives.

Progress is inspiring. I've said before it's harder to enjoy when you've actually got something to lose

Having said that...no way you can call it knee-jerk...it's been the glaring priority for years now.

I am not saying a shift to offensive priority in the front office is knee jerk. I am saying that I think more methodical throughout out decisions are made after space in off season. Now you jump on a chance whenever it occurs but I think a no brainer trade did not present itself imo. I have no problem with them taking their time till this off season but the clock is really ticking. Defense was the focus this year. The offense needs to be next or we will not have any progress.

I also want to say this isn’t just the FO. Yes they have to balance personnel but this is also on Mosley too. He needs to hire an assistant coach “offensive coordinator”. Offense is not his forte and it shows.

[bigdogdylan5]

OKC expolited non existing offense of Isaac and Fultz



It's getting ridicilous at this point. It's worst than Ben Simmons. Guy is spending time, at 6'3- on dunker's spot or in corner leaving team to play 4 on 5.

Isaac was served with same . He was flat out ignored in corner, as Holmgren kept defending paint instad of him.


In general this is what good teams do to onedimensional players. They take them out of game or leveradge their limitations to their own adventage.

This will make your head hurt, pepe

Come on man there is much more often examples of Pepe screenshot then yours. The only reason he is getting that attention is because they see an opportunity to trap him

[Audi]

OKC expolited non existing offense of Isaac and Fultz



It's getting ridicilous at this point. It's worst than Ben Simmons. Guy is spending time, at 6'3- on dunker's spot or in corner leaving team to play 4 on 5.

Isaac was served with same . He was flat out ignored in corner, as Holmgren kept defending paint instad of him.


In general this is what good teams do to onedimensional players. They take them out of game or leveradge their limitations to their own adventage.

This will make your head hurt, pepe

Come on man there is much more often examples of Pepe screenshot then yours. The only reason he is getting that attention is because they see an opportunity to trap him

I know I’m just messin

[FrightCoward]

Also, Hollinger is biased and I don't understand why. How could he continue to slander Paolo after last night's performance?

Read on Twitter

?t=FdwNiqCoYQjiJT09OaHHrA&s=19

Because Hollinger is a clown with an agenda. He hates on Paolo because he isn’t “efficient”, but then on the night where he plays a very smart and efficient game, he goes out of his way to prop up Holmgren and JDub. Well deserved praise for then to be sure, but Paolo was, by far, the best player on our team last night. The guy who analytics love, Franz, stunk the joint up.

[ValvPiti]

Thunder are crazy good. SGA with a 30.6 PER, powering the engine. Got to slow him down.

With absolute respect to the rest of that roster. I was looking at it today and wondering how many of these players benefit from SGA gravity. The dude is a beast.

This is not to say Chet , Josh, Cason Wallace, Jalen aren't good in their own right. Just SGA brings it all together bigtime.

For sure. SGA at 32.9% usage, the rest, Chet, JDub, and Giddey are in 3rd option territory at ~22%. They'll be contenders for years.

Edit: one of those players will need to develop into viable 2nd options, though.

Jalen Williams is already a really, really good second option and can turn into so much more. I have been watching the Thunder play a lot lately, and it seems to me that the offence at times is better when the runs the show. Im higher on him that most I believe, but I think he'll be a legit superstar (its not an overreaction to this game, either, I have felt this for a month or so).

Giddey on the other hand is the most misscasted player in the league. Chet is a great, efficient 3rd option who's a a great defender (at least has the potential to be).

I enjoyed the game a lot. Franz had a stinker, but what I have been seeing from him lately is still very encouraging..

[Last Guardian]

This will make your head hurt, pepe

Come on man there is much more often examples of Pepe screenshot then yours. The only reason he is getting that attention is because they see an opportunity to trap him

I know I’m just messin

Nah you have a point. Every team in the league will give up a 3 vs a basket at the rim. Screenshots from nearly every NBA game will tell you this. They were giving Suggs plenty of room in that very same screen shot, and he's actually a decent shooter this season. Wendell is not a bad shooter either, but gets open 3 after open 3.

That is just the way teams play defense. This is the way our own team plays defense, and why we seem to give up open shot after open shot.

And I'm not defending Fultz, they obviously are ignoring him even more because they know he won't even shoot it. But even put a decent shooter in his place and they still are giving him plenty of room so they can better defend Paolo or Franz drives. You have to. You can't let 6'10 guys go all the way to the basket without helping.

Ultimately yes you want to make them pay for packing the paint so much. Especially since this season, Fultz isn't even on the ball very much if at all. He's basically doing the same thing as Black...dribble up and pass to Paolo. His attacks are better than AB, as are his passes, but they aren't in volume like last season.

[Skybox]

Which is a 100% fair argument. My whining comment wasn’t necessarily you as the focus. I think I am really trying to be patient but even I am reaching the end of my rope that we need to start figuring out the offense. We’re kinda capped and flawed until we give that more attention. I want to really enjoy this season and not take it for granted as I think this team is showing growth. However this front office really does need to start pushing the envelope this offseason. I think better decisions are always made in offseason than knee jerk trade deadline.

With all that being said I think their is way to much focus on the problems then the progress this year on this board. I think acknowledging issues are important but also doing the same with positives.

Progress is inspiring. I've said before it's harder to enjoy when you've actually got something to lose

Having said that...no way you can call it knee-jerk...it's been the glaring priority for years now.

I am not saying a shift to offensive priority in the front office is knee jerk. I am saying that I think more methodical throughout out decisions are made after space in off season. Now you jump on a chance whenever it occurs but I think a no brainer trade did not present itself imo. I have no problem with them taking their time till this off season but the clock is really ticking. Defense was the focus this year. The offense needs to be next or we will not have any progress.

I also want to say this isn’t just the FO. Yes they have to balance personnel but this is also on Mosley too. He needs to hire an assistant coach “offensive coordinator”. Offense is not his forte and it shows.

I get it...I like the offensive coordinator idea.

These guys get paid millions of dollars and a big staff and all the tech to study, analyze and prioritize players 12 months a year...it's not like the Trade Deadline sneaks up on them...You can also make trades for months leading up to the TD. I can't give them a pass again. They may rectify the whole thing this summer with a giant move - but I see no reason to justify not improving sooner. Not just for the sake of winning games...the idea of adding talent being detrimental to Paolo & Franz' development is, IMO, completely backward. Having a well-rounded team that can spread the floor and make things easier for them would only aid in their abilty to play the right way (and win).

[bigdogdylan5]

Progress is inspiring. I've said before it's harder to enjoy when you've actually got something to lose

Having said that...no way you can call it knee-jerk...it's been the glaring priority for years now.

I am not saying a shift to offensive priority in the front office is knee jerk. I am saying that I think more methodical throughout out decisions are made after space in off season. Now you jump on a chance whenever it occurs but I think a no brainer trade did not present itself imo. I have no problem with them taking their time till this off season but the clock is really ticking. Defense was the focus this year. The offense needs to be next or we will not have any progress.

I also want to say this isn’t just the FO. Yes they have to balance personnel but this is also on Mosley too. He needs to hire an assistant coach “offensive coordinator”. Offense is not his forte and it shows.

I get it...I like the offensive coordinator idea.

These guys get paid millions of dollars and a big staff and all the tech to study, analyze and prioritize players 12 months a year...it's not like the Trade Deadline sneaks up on them...You can also make trades for months leading up to the TD. I can't give them a pass again. They may rectify the whole thing this summer with a giant move - but I see no reason to justify not improving sooner. Not just for the sake of winning games...the idea of adding talent being detrimental to Paolo & Franz' development is, IMO, completely backward. Having a well-rounded team that can spread the floor and make things easier for them would only aid in their abilty to play the right way (and win).

Yes you can do all the work but the right deal has to materialize. Tyus Jones and Hield I just don’t see the benefit of giving up even protected firsts for them when we have the cap space to sign them this summer if we want. I just didn’t see the guy that would maybe win us more than like 2 more games. If the right deal isn’t there just hold. That being said they can’t hold past this offseason I am being patient but something has to give.

I am nervous that the offense might not just be fixed by saying get rid of Fultz and replace with a shooter. We struggle shooting even when Fultz isn’t in game. Paolo and Franz need to get better shooting because one of them will not have the ball and have to space. Watching warmups last night was crazy I think Paolo missed like 8-10 threes in a row at one point. Even when we have shooters out there we struggle to get them open. Cole is allergic to taking a spot up jumper so what happens next year when Black and Cole is basically Fultz Cole 2.0. Now I have more hope for Black shooting than Fultz but damn he won’t be shooting league average for another year or two based on where he is. I guess my point is I don’t think Jaylin Williams and Lou Dort are better shooters than what we have but their offensive scheme is light years ahead of ours. It’s not just personnel our offense looks like it needs a big overhaul.

[pepe1991]

Come on man there is much more often examples of Pepe screenshot then yours. The only reason he is getting that attention is because they see an opportunity to trap him

I know I’m just messin

Nah you have a point. Every team in the league will give up a 3 vs a basket at the rim. Screenshots from nearly every NBA game will tell you this. They were giving Suggs plenty of room in that very same screen shot, and he's actually a decent shooter this season. Wendell is not a bad shooter either, but gets open 3 after open 3.

That is just the way teams play defense. This is the way our own team plays defense, and why we seem to give up open shot after open shot.

And I'm not defending Fultz, they obviously are ignoring him even more because they know he won't even shoot it. But even put a decent shooter in his place and they still are giving him plenty of room so they can better defend Paolo or Franz drives. You have to. You can't let 6'10 guys go all the way to the basket without helping.

Ultimately yes you want to make them pay for packing the paint so much. Especially since this season, Fultz isn't even on the ball very much if at all. He's basically doing the same thing as Black...dribble up and pass to Paolo. His attacks are better than AB, as are his passes, but they aren't in volume like last season.

Even by just looking at picture you can see our spacing issues. 4 OKC players are in paint.

Fultz is biggest spacing problem because he is point guard who refuses to take jumpshots. let alone 3 point shots.