What would it take to get JJ in Denver?

Yoga · Post #1 » by **Yoga** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:27 pm

I come in peace. What do you want from Denver for Redick?

Denver trades: Timofey Mozgov, 2013 1st
Denver receives: J.J. Redick

Orlando trades: J.J. Redick
Orlando receives: Mozgov, 2013 1st

Denver gets a shooter off the bench, while Orlando gets an expiring (Mozgov) and a 1st rounder

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I posted this on the transaction board. Let me know what you guys think:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1232459

bluesteelmagic · Post #2 » by **bluesteelmagic** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:46 pm

No. The Magic would essentially trade JJ for a big who will never see the court, and a late first round pick, who in a weak draft, may never amount to anything in this league. I believe that if we were to move JJ, we'd be asking for a mid first round pick at the very least. Even then, I dont know if I'd pull the trigger. I'm on board for trying to resign him in the off-season.

OrlandO · Post #3 » by **OrlandO** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:48 pm

bulls

flyingvee · Post #4 » by **flyingvee** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:15 pm

So after being pissed at how this team was dismantled, or the fact that we once again became the Lakers bitch, I like seeing this youth movement. But a guy like Redick is the sort of veteran you NEED on a team like this. So even if he's in his early 30's by the time the team can compete, he can still be very valuable. I dont see the point in giving up such an asset to this team in exchange for a mid 1st round pick which in most cases will be busts. Maybe for a higher pick or a contending veteran team that needs him and is willing to part with a young good prospect if they are in the win-now situation. This team can be solid with Nelson and Redick and Vooch. Just have to use high picks and Afflalo as trade bait for that. Big Baby and Harrington would have made good bait were they not injured which probably set us back another year. Even Turk. Teams making a serious run could use guys like them off the bench. Maybe Afflalo to the Bulls, what can they give us in return? But not Redick.

OrlandO · Post #5 » by **OrlandO** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:32 pm

flyingvee wrote:So after being pissed at how this team was dismantled, or the fact that we once again became the Lakers bitch, I like seeing this youth movement. But a guy like Redick is the sort of veteran you NEED on a team like this. So even if he's in his early 30's by the time the team can compete, he can still be very valuable. I dont see the point in giving up such an asset to this team in exchange for a mid 1st round pick which in most cases will be busts. Maybe for a higher pick or a contending veteran team that needs him and is willing to part with a young good prospect if they are in the win-now situation. This team can be solid with Nelson and Redick and Vooch. Just have to use high picks and Afflalo as trade bait for that. Big Baby and Harrington would have made good bait were they not injured which probably set us back another year. Even Turk. Teams making a serious run could use guys like them off the bench. Maybe Afflalo to the Bulls, what can they give us in return? But not Redick.

I agree with almost everything... that part about Turk though... nobody wants that guy anymore. 26% FG, 1/24 from 3 in 11 games this season. On top of that, his care-free attitude sucks. He's done. As for Redick, I am not a fan of trading him for a mid-late pick unless we're getting a young prospect with high upside as well. I don't see us replacing Redick with equal value. The guy has grown into a really good SG. He doesn't just take 3s... he can also facilitate, keeps the defense guessing by running around, and he works harder than most. He doesn't rely on athleticism and he's smart, so I think he'll be solid up to his mid 30s. Harkless has already said multiple times that he's learning from JJ, both from the way he approaches the game and by taking part in his shooting drills. My only concern is whether JJ would sign with us... most don't think so, but I think he would since he gets to be more like the JJ of Duke now - he's not getting that type of freedom on a contending team. If he buys into Hennigan's plan, then he likely believes we'll be back in the playoffs sooner rather than later, too.

Post #6 » by **craig01** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:33 pm

flyingvee wrote: But a guy like Redick is the sort of veteran you NEED on a team like this. So even if he's in his early 30's by the time the team can compete, he can still be very valuable. I dont see the point in giving up such an asset to this team in exchange for a mid 1st round pick which in most cases will be busts. Maybe for a higher pick or a contending veteran team that needs him and is willing to part with a young good prospect if they are in the win-now situation. This team can be solid with Nelson and Redick and Vooch. Just have to use high picks and Afflalo as trade bait for that. Big Baby and Harrington would have made good bait were they not injured which probably set us back another year. Even Turk. Teams making a serious run could use guys like them off the bench. Maybe Afflalo to the Bulls, what can they give us in return? But not Redick.

I agree.

redick has become very much like Jeff Hornacek, and those types of players are NOT a dime a dozen.

Viper1500 · Post #7 » by **Viper1500** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:17 pm

It's not like we all want to see Redick go, it's the fact that we have a much similar player in Afflalo tied up for the next 3 years. I'm so tired of seeing Afflalo @ the 3, as if that is his natural position. This is a rebuilding team, meaning this team shouldn't yet have the luxury of having JJ Redick come off the bench.

Reverse_Angle · Post #8 » by **Reverse_Angle** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:30 pm

Misleading title, I thought this was based on some kind of report or a rumor.

Post #9 » by **ChosenSavior** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:51 pm

Reverse_Angle wrote:Misleading title, I thought this was based on some kind of report or a rumor.

Post #10 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:55 pm

Pass.

drsd · Post #11 » by **drsd** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:44 pm

Viper1500 wrote:It's not like we all want to see Redick go, it's the fact that we have a much similar player in Afflalo tied up for the next 3 years. I'm so tired of seeing Afflalo @ the 3, as if that is his natural position. This is a rebuilding team, meaning this team shouldn't yet have the luxury of having JJ Redick come off the bench.

Harkless regularly at the SF means Afflalo gets the big SG minutes. Under such a scenario, I agree with you that there is no financial reason to keep carrying Redick as a bench player.

So .....
Not only is Тимофей Павлович Мозгов a bench player that would not see minutes, he looks to be a free agent as well. This makes sense only if the Magic wish to commit to the Russian as a long-term back-up center. But why would he want that for himself?

But it would be nice to have an enforcer again:

bigpimpatl · Post #12 » by **bigpimpatl** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:26 pm

you guys are underrating 1st round picks. The new CBA makes them very valuable.

Post #13 » by **SS_MagicMark** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:53 pm

Plus we'd still have to pay JJ big money, which probably isn't in the team's plans for the near future. If someone offers an expiring deal & a late 1st for JJ & a contract, we'd probably have to do that.

arsenal6106 · Post #14 » by **arsenal6106** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:09 pm

bigpimpatl wrote:you guys are underrating 1st round picks. The new CBA makes them very valuable.

How so?
Honestly asking.

drsd · Post #15 » by **drsd** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:09 pm

bigpimpatl wrote:you guys are underrating 1st round picks. The new CBA makes them very valuable.

This argues that there will be a larger representation of younger players and less aged-vets. I see no reason to believe that. There are numerous paths for teams to hire players at league costs. Plus there are very high levels of minimum salary. This, sadly, ensures that teams must have some over-paid players.

Cigamodnalro · Post #16 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:12 pm

arsenal6106 wrote:
bigpimpatl wrote:you guys are underrating 1st round picks. The new CBA makes them very valuable.

How so?
Honestly asking.

Because tax consequences for being over the cap are more dire. Contributing players on rookie contracts are more valuable now than they were before (relative to contributing players on bigger contracts). The best way to acquire contributing players on rookie contracts is to draft them.

Post #17 » by **Bensational** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:58 pm

Wilson Chandler would be a solid return, in my eyes.

draft picks are great value, although they're risky. but late 1st picks always seem to end up either becoming safe, solid, ready to play pieces, or they are the sleepers who are loaded with talent, but have a bunch of ?'s over them.

Former champs and some of their young guys on rookie scale contracts:

Miami - Chalmers, Norris Cole
Dallas - Roddy B, JJ Barea
Boston - Baby, Perkins, Rondo

and so on, and so on. but for every contending team like this, there are teams that draft the players who don't last in the league. or, players who don't make any meaningful contribution, and they rob a team of $1.5M for the next 3 years.

The Effect · Post #18 » by **The Effect** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:13 pm

To be honest, the only players i really like on denver (for us) would be Gallinari and Faried. If we HAVE to trade JJ (dont wnat to see it happen and consider him one of the only 2 guys i dont want traded with Vuc) id be happy with a JJ for Gallinari trade, but dont see denver ever agreeing to it

tiderulz · Post #19 » by **tiderulz** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:14 pm

Bensational wrote:Wilson Chandler would be a solid return, in my eyes.

draft picks are great value, although they're risky. but late 1st picks always seem to end up either becoming safe, solid, ready to play pieces, or they are the sleepers who are loaded with talent, but have a bunch of ?'s over them.

Former champs and some of their young guys on rookie scale contracts:

Miami - Chalmers, Norris Cole
Dallas - Roddy B, JJ Barea
Boston - Baby, Perkins, Rondo

and so on, and so on. but for every contending team like this, there are teams that draft the players who don't last in the league. or, players who don't make any meaningful contribution, and they rob a team of $1.5M for the next 3 years.

i would guess (non-scientific) that less than 10% of late picks stay with a team more than 2 yrs. Roddy has done nothing, Cole is a backup PG, Perkins is vastly overpaid.

drsd · Post #20 » by **drsd** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:23 pm

Bensational wrote:... late 1st picks always seem to end up either becoming safe, solid, ready to play pieces, or they are the sleepers who are loaded with talent, but have a bunch of ?'s over them.

Players making some sort of an impact bottom 5-picks of the 1st round

2012 none.

2011: Norris Cole, Jimmy Butler
And Jordan Hamilton, JaJuan Johnson, Cory Joseph have not embarrassed themselves.

2010: Greivis Vásquez, Jordan Crawford

2009: Toney Douglas, Taj Gibson
And Wayne Ellington doesn't suck

2008: D. J. White, George Hill
And Donté Greene and Darrell Arthur are not horrible

2007: Tiago Splitter, Arron Afflalo, Aaron Brooks

So, 2007 was a good year for late picks, but in general, a 6 ppg guy is as good as a team can really hope for.

..