Vucevic gets 4 years $54 million extension!

[mojosodope]

Passing is the only thing he did well his last two year here, it's his defense and awful shooting that killed us.



yes you are, and you did it with this statement also:

Jameer's passing may have been better than his defense and shooting but that doesnt mean it was good.

Let me clarify something. I like Vuc...a LOT, I think his extension was a steal. I do PERSONALLY think Harris will be a more important player for us and think that because we were able to get Vuc for what I believe was a steal, we should not undervalue what Harris is and will actually be worth.

My statement was not to discredit Vuc's stats but to say that they are harder to compare to Harris' because many of the factors associated with tanking did not impact his game in the same way they impacted Harris'

Look this tanking excuse is just getting out of hand. We lost because we werent very good, period. Improvement this season will depend on the develop of the young guys not because we wont be "tanking"

We can agree to disagree. No I do not believe we were a playoff team losing games on purpose, but I do believe there were a lot more effects of the way the team was coached and instructed to be coached last year. I also believe there were factors which affected our players very differently. None of our stats as they relate to us winning games mean much to me as I do not believe winning was a priority last year.

For example, IMO the way we played last year affected Harkless, Harris and Vuc in 3 very different ways.

Again, we can agree to disagree, but I do think the (very masterful) Tank job that was run last year had a greater effect on the stats than perhaps you believe

[thelead]

Jameer's passing may have been better than his defense and shooting but that doesnt mean it was good.

Let me clarify something. I like Vuc...a LOT, I think his extension was a steal. I do PERSONALLY think Harris will be a more important player for us and think that because we were able to get Vuc for what I believe was a steal, we should not undervalue what Harris is and will actually be worth.

My statement was not to discredit Vuc's stats but to say that they are harder to compare to Harris' because many of the factors associated with tanking did not impact his game in the same way they impacted Harris'

Look this tanking excuse is just getting out of hand. We lost because we werent very good, period. Improvement this season will depend on the develop of the young guys not because we wont be "tanking"

We can agree to disagree. No I do not believe we were a playoff team losing games on purpose, but I do believe there were a lot more effects of the way the team was coached and instructed to be coached last year. I also believe there were factors which affected our players very differently. None of our stats as they relate to us winning games mean much to me as I do not believe winning was a priority last year.

For example, IMO the way we played last year affected Harkless, Harris and Vuc in 3 very different ways.

Again, we can agree to disagree, but I do think the (very masterful) Tank job that was run last year had a greater effect on the stats than perhaps you believe

I'll back you up on this one. The tank was blatantly obvious, exhibit Z:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400490100

[tooler]

I'll back you up on this one. The tank was blatantly obvious, exhibit Z:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400490100

I just kept laughing harder as I went down the box score.

[WillyJakkz]

Very good deal for the Magic and Vucevic, I'm really excited about this.

Vucevic is definitely an elite rebounding C, not sure why people say his defense is terrible though as they conveniently forget rebounding is also an aspect of defense.

I could actually see us packaging Tobias or trading him individually to another team if we're too far apart in salary with he and his agent and it may not be such a bad thing as I feel Vucevic and 'Dipo should be our top paid guys outta the young'uns.

I wouldn't want us to pay Tobias double digit numbers or even anything above $7M personally and if push comes to shove I'd rather see us extend the QO to him after the season and allow the market to dictate his salary.

Anyway great job extending Vuc!

You see what the market just paid for Hayward and Parsons? Harris is looking at a 20ppg season, so he'll command big money, and then we're gonna be forced to match or risk losing him for nothing.

I'd say his agent knows that, too, so he's asking for a higher figure now.

You are so right......................................................................................................

Yeah I get that and all, I really do but in my mind there is no rush to sign a guy like Tobias yet whose primary asset is scoring from the wing position as there are plenty of guys who do that.

The key about scorers is how effectively they do it and how does it translate into our teams success and Tobias' scoring for all intent and purposes doesn't have the same impact as the rebounding etc of Vucevic which is why you don't pay the guy yet, let the market dictate his salary or trade him before hand.

In the meantime let's see how the newer kids (Gordon Payton) and Victor do.

[MagicStarwipe]

Anybody who couldn't see the blatant tanking... sorry, "developing" that went on last season either didn't watch all 82 games, or... I don't know what.

And who doesn't love Jameer? But he was obviously one of the biggest reasons we sucked last season. C'mon now.

[Bensational]

You see what the market just paid for Hayward and Parsons? Harris is looking at a 20ppg season, so he'll command big money, and then we're gonna be forced to match or risk losing him for nothing.

I'd say his agent knows that, too, so he's asking for a higher figure now.

You are so right......................................................................................................

Yeah I get that and all, I really do but in my mind there is no rush to sign a guy like Tobias yet whose primary asset is scoring from the wing position as there are plenty of guys who do that.

The key about scorers is how effectively they do it and how does it translate into our teams success and Tobias' scoring for all intent and purposes doesn't have the same impact as the rebounding etc of Vucevic which is why you don't pay the guy yet, let the market dictate his salary or trade him before hand.

In the meantime let's see how the newer kids (Gordon Payton) and Victor do.

But Tobias IS an effective and efficient scorer. Gets to the rim for high % shots a lot and hits a good number of his jumpers with range.

Scorers of his caliber will be paid in abundance. But as long as you're prepared to pay big money for him in the event that's what he's offered, then its a non issue. It's only a problem if you want to gamble on whether or not the market will offer him less and you're not prepared to pay more for him. Then it's just playing chicken with him, and you risk losing him.

Ultimately, I don't think the team will balk at paying him if he proves his worth. Henny's just doing due diligence and trying to get a bargain. We're not the Thunder. We'll pay to keep all our guys as long as they perform and win.

[Skin]

Tobias SHOULD get the max that he could get right now. If the Magic can sign him for anything less than that, then they should do it. I have a feeling his agent is holding out for a max and the Magic are holding back.

But we need to lock him up for the next 5 years. Even at $13M per season, by the time 2016 rolls around, that contract will be what slightly above average players will get. Once the TV deal begins, max deals are already being rumored to go beyond $30M per year.

Right now, it's a race for teams to extend their important guys and the agents know it. This is why Hayward, Faried and Bledsoe got max deals now and they aren't really true max players. This is why Channing Frye at $8M now seems high, but in reality, due to the length of the deal, that money is actually more aligned with where future contracts will be valued at for a normal starter/quality role player.

If teams can lock their desirable and eligible players up for a long contract before 2016, they will be better off when the scales dramatically change.

[drsd]

Back to Vučević: just read this:

Vucevic isn't just a good mid-range shooter, he's a great one. Of the 65 players to attempt at least 250 such shots last season, he had the 14th-highest conversion rate (44.5), per NBA.com, putting him ahead of the likes of Kevin Durant (44.4), Carmelo Anthony (44.3) and LaMarcus Aldridge (42.2).

WOW!



Clearly Vučević on offense will be well positioned next to an interior athlete that plays above the rim. Mr. Gordon-A seems perfect next to the offensive skill Vučević brings to the Magic.

[drsd]

Tobias SHOULD get the max that he could get right now. If the Magic can sign him for anything less than that, then they should do it.

Intersting rumor story on Harris:

Orlando Magic Tobias Harris could be negatively impacted by the deal the Phoenix Suns signed Markieff Morris to.

Tobias Harris is said to be looking for a four-year worth over $10 million per season. However, many teams, including the Magic, will likely point to Markieff Morris’ $8 million per-season deal as a more accurate figure for Tobias Harris.

LINK


I think most Magic fans would instantly think that GM Hennigan did a great job if Harris is inked for 4/40. And yes that's 8M more than Orlando is rumored to offer at 4/32. But the 11M and 12M Harris would make in the final years of the deal would be a cap bargain for the Magic.

..

[tiderulz]

Yeah I get that and all, I really do but in my mind there is no rush to sign a guy like Tobias yet whose primary asset is scoring from the wing position as there are plenty of guys who do that.

The key about scorers is how effectively they do it and how does it translate into our teams success and Tobias' scoring for all intent and purposes doesn't have the same impact as the rebounding etc of Vucevic which is why you don't pay the guy yet, let the market dictate his salary or trade him before hand.

In the meantime let's see how the newer kids (Gordon Payton) and Victor do.

while i agree that there doesnt necessarily have to be a rush to sign Harris, i disagree with your belief that there are plenty of guys available to score from the wing. If so, there wouldnt be so many teams trying to grab wing scorers from other teams (Charlotte after Hayward, Houston getting Parsons, Charlotte getting Lance), some teams like Atlanta, NO, Indy (now), Charlotte, Brooklyn, Washington.

[tiderulz]

Tobias SHOULD get the max that he could get right now. If the Magic can sign him for anything less than that, then they should do it.

Intersting rumor story on Harris:

Orlando Magic Tobias Harris could be negatively impacted by the deal the Phoenix Suns signed Markieff Morris to.

Tobias Harris is said to be looking for a four-year worth over $10 million per season. However, many teams, including the Magic, will likely point to Markieff Morris’ $8 million per-season deal as a more accurate figure for Tobias Harris.

LINK


I think most Magic fans would instantly think that GM Hennigan did a great job if Harris is inked for 4/40. And yes that's 8M more than Orlando is rumored to offer at 4/32. But the 11M and 12M Harris would make in the final years of the deal would be a cap bargain for the Magic.

..

i could see maybe a base of 4/34-36 with bonuses (stay healthy, X ppg) to get it to $40m. and i would be happy with that. the extra money would mean that he is earning it and hopefully carrying over to the team.

[Optimus_Steel]

Anybody who couldn't see the blatant tanking... sorry, "developing" that went on last season either didn't watch all 82 games, or... I don't know what.

And who doesn't love Jameer? But he was obviously one of the biggest reasons we sucked last season. C'mon now.

We were tanking. That was obvious. Crazy rotations, favoring an inefficient offensive system, Dipo at PG, poor defensive scheme, cutting of minutes of the efficient players, keeping the efficient players out much longer even if they have minor injuries, and so on. Unfortunately some here don't realize that.

This year we are trying to win and....gasp...we have a legit offensive system. JV didnt become a genious over the summer, he could have implemented this last year but it was by design.

[WillyJakkz]

Yeah I get that and all, I really do but in my mind there is no rush to sign a guy like Tobias yet whose primary asset is scoring from the wing position as there are plenty of guys who do that.

The key about scorers is how effectively they do it and how does it translate into our teams success and Tobias' scoring for all intent and purposes doesn't have the same impact as the rebounding etc of Vucevic which is why you don't pay the guy yet, let the market dictate his salary or trade him before hand.

In the meantime let's see how the newer kids (Gordon Payton) and Victor do.

while i agree that there doesnt necessarily have to be a rush to sign Harris, i disagree with your belief that there are plenty of guys available to score from the wing. If so, there wouldnt be so many teams trying to grab wing scorers from other teams (Charlotte after Hayward, Houston getting Parsons, Charlotte getting Lance), some teams like Atlanta, NO, Indy (now), Charlotte, Brooklyn, Washington.

Agree to disagree.

Just not seeing the need or urgency to lock Tobias up to a deal like that considering the money already invested in Frye which means you'd be willing to spend in excess of $20+M at the PF spot (Tobias/ Frye/ Gordon/ Nicholson) in conjunction w/ his pay at the SF spot ($17+M Harris/ Gordon/ Harkless) then you gotta take mins/ development of Gordon into account and I really don't see Tobias as the long term solution.

That in my mind was made clear once we signed Frye and drafted Gordon cause afterall why play hardball w/ Tobias if he were a key cog to the team.

We locked up Vuc because he is a key cog in this Magic machine.

You named guys in Parsons and Hayward who have shown value as either an important complimentary piece who could help put a team over the top (Parsons) or a guy who teams hope can be a highly important piece to a winning team (Hayward) which was why teams chased those guys. Utah had to match and gamble that Favors and now Exum will develop into the more prominent guys around Hayward and they've lucked into Gobert developing a little sooner than expected.

Also Hayward/ Parsons shoot the ball well from distance which is highly important for their position whereas in Tobias you're talking more about a put your head down take it to the basket/ paint type of scorer (which is great) but I just believe the Magic feel Oladipo is to be that guy who'll be getting the next big contract on this team and Tobias is a guy I feel we'll have to package or trade individually to a team for a more proven guy already under a reasonable contract, a future draft pick, or another young guy who is still on a rookie deal.

[mojosodope]

Yeah I get that and all, I really do but in my mind there is no rush to sign a guy like Tobias yet whose primary asset is scoring from the wing position as there are plenty of guys who do that.

The key about scorers is how effectively they do it and how does it translate into our teams success and Tobias' scoring for all intent and purposes doesn't have the same impact as the rebounding etc of Vucevic which is why you don't pay the guy yet, let the market dictate his salary or trade him before hand.

In the meantime let's see how the newer kids (Gordon Payton) and Victor do.

while i agree that there doesnt necessarily have to be a rush to sign Harris, i disagree with your belief that there are plenty of guys available to score from the wing. If so, there wouldnt be so many teams trying to grab wing scorers from other teams (Charlotte after Hayward, Houston getting Parsons, Charlotte getting Lance), some teams like Atlanta, NO, Indy (now), Charlotte, Brooklyn, Washington.

Agree to disagree.

Just not seeing the need or urgency to lock Tobias up to a deal like that considering the money already invested in Frye which means you'd be willing to spend in excess of $20+M at the PF spot (Tobias/ Frye/ Gordon/ Nicholson) in conjunction w/ his pay at the SF spot ($17+M Harris/ Gordon/ Harkless) then you gotta take mins/ development of Gordon into account and I really don't see Tobias as the long term solution.

That in my mind was made clear once we signed Frye and drafted Gordon cause afterall why play hardball w/ Tobias if he were a key cog to the team.

We locked up Vuc because he is a key cog in this Magic machine.

You named guys in Parsons and Hayward who have shown value as either an important complimentary piece who could help put a team over the top (Parsons) or a guy who teams hope can be a highly important piece to a winning team (Hayward) which was why teams chased those guys. Utah had to match and gamble that Favors and now Exum will develop into the more prominent guys around Hayward and they've lucked into Gobert developing a little sooner than expected.

Also Hayward/ Parsons shoot the ball well from distance which is highly important for their position whereas in Tobias you're talking more about a put your head down take it to the basket/ paint type of scorer (which is great) but I just believe the Magic feel Oladipo is to be that guy who'll be getting the next big contract on this team and Tobias is a guy I feel we'll have to package or trade individually to a team for a more proven guy already under a reasonable contract, a future draft pick, or another young guy who is still on a rookie deal.

Parsons & Hayward have shown they can help a team over the top??

Tell me again which over the top you are describing? The near-sweep first round exit the rockets experienced last year or the 25 win (2 more than the Magic) season the Jazz had last year.

Again, if we are not tanking and harris shows that his Post ASG/post BBD numbers are the norm, he is instantly a more valuable player than both of these players

So harris isn't worth an extension, but you are going to tell me that the Magic feel Oladipo is supposed to be that guy. Explain to me again how he's a more valuable/efficient player than harris....or how he has more potential despite the fact that he is actually older than harris

[tiderulz]

So harris isn't worth an extension, but you are going to tell me that the Magic feel Oladipo is supposed to be that guy. Explain to me again how he's a more valuable/efficient player than harris....or how he has more potential despite the fact that he is actually older than harris

this is what i havent understood. Harris has shown himself to be at least equal to Dipo in terms of total impact, both invited to Team USA, and yet people talk about giving Dipo a max contract down the road but want to give Harris a tiny contract.

Dont get wrong, again, im not saying we have to sign him now (though its a risk on a higher offer at end of season) as he hasnt been able to stay completely healthy for us yet i dont think. And we shouldnt completely break the bank on him. But if we are worried about another team giving him a huge offer, that means that he is playing extremely well, and why should we just let really good players go to other teams instead of keeping them?

[WillyJakkz]

I find it fascinating how hard it is for some of you guys to grasp Oladipo is still on a rookie scale contract and Tobias is due to make nearly 3x as much as Victor is (if you guys get your way by signing Tobias to a "bargain" $13M/ yr contract).

Also not for nothing but Tobias also has that one step away from being overweight body type and I'm not completely sold on him being "competitively hungry to still work hard after he gets paid gene" in him.

And as far as him playing great, all guys who have common sense play great in contract yrs.

Jury is still out on Harris, you guys won't change my opinion but the debate is good.

Tell me why you feel or what has Harris shown to make you want to pay the guy "now" cause all I'm seeing from you guys are "If he can put up 20ppg" "If Tobias can..."?

Extension deadline got y'all jittery?

Also never said he won't eventually be worth that kind of deal, he isn't worth it now though.

[tiderulz]

I find it fascinating how hard it is for some of you guys to grasp Oladipo is still on a rookie scale contract and Tobias is due to make nearly 3x as much as Victor is (if you guys get your way by signing Tobias to a "bargain" $13M/ yr contract).

Also not for nothing but Tobias also has that one step away from being overweight body type and I'm not completely sold on him being "competitively hungry to still work hard after he gets paid gene" in him.

And as far as him playing great, all guys who have common sense play great in contract yrs.

Jury is still out on Harris, you guys won't change my opinion but the debate is good.

Tell me why you feel or what has Harris shown to make you want to pay the guy "now" cause all I'm seeing from you guys are "If he can put up 20ppg" "If Tobias can..."?

Extension deadline got y'all jittery?

Also never said he won't eventually be worth that kind of deal, he isn't worth it now though.

we grasp it completely. im talking about the players themselves, contract aside. You talk about being Harris being overweight? something like Dipo was last year?

And i have not said throw the bank at him nor sign him right now, i just have issues when many people's first thought is to just jettison Harris because of some pre-conceived notion about him. What i have seen from Harris is that he is a better scorer and more efficient than Dipo. Maybe Dipo gets better, maybe he doesnt, we just dont know yet.

[mojosodope]

I find it fascinating how hard it is for some of you guys to grasp Oladipo is still on a rookie scale contract and Tobias is due to make nearly 3x as much as Victor is (if you guys get your way by signing Tobias to a "bargain" $13M/ yr contract).

Also not for nothing but Tobias also has that one step away from being overweight body type and I'm not completely sold on him being "competitively hungry to still work hard after he gets paid gene" in him.

And as far as him playing great, all guys who have common sense play great in contract yrs.

Jury is still out on Harris, you guys won't change my opinion but the debate is good.

Tell me why you feel or what has Harris shown to make you want to pay the guy "now" cause all I'm seeing from you guys are "If he can put up 20ppg" "If Tobias can..."?

Extension deadline got y'all jittery?

Also never said he won't eventually be worth that kind of deal, he isn't worth it now though.

He pretty much has the reputation as being the hardest worker on the team. So if you think he's the player that is gonna stop working after getting a contract....we are in big trouble

If he puts up 20ppg we will either lose him or end up paying him Max money. Right now, he is worth an extension is my argument. If his production does not increase ONE BIT, he will be worth 13-14 a year. Look up Haywards numbers and tell me how much "better" they were than Harris' last year

[Skin]

I find it fascinating how hard it is for some of you guys to grasp Oladipo is still on a rookie scale contract and Tobias is due to make nearly 3x as much as Victor is (if you guys get your way by signing Tobias to a "bargain" $13M/ yr contract).

Also not for nothing but Tobias also has that one step away from being overweight body type and I'm not completely sold on him being "competitively hungry to still work hard after he gets paid gene" in him.

And as far as him playing great, all guys who have common sense play great in contract yrs.

Jury is still out on Harris, you guys won't change my opinion but the debate is good.

Tell me why you feel or what has Harris shown to make you want to pay the guy "now" cause all I'm seeing from you guys are "If he can put up 20ppg" "If Tobias can..."?

Extension deadline got y'all jittery?

Also never said he won't eventually be worth that kind of deal, he isn't worth it now though.

Wanna change your mind?

[MagicFanGilley]

I find it fascinating how hard it is for some of you guys to grasp Oladipo is still on a rookie scale contract and Tobias is due to make nearly 3x as much as Victor is (if you guys get your way by signing Tobias to a "bargain" $13M/ yr contract).

Also not for nothing but Tobias also has that one step away from being overweight body type and I'm not completely sold on him being "competitively hungry to still work hard after he gets paid gene" in him.

And as far as him playing great, all guys who have common sense play great in contract yrs.

Jury is still out on Harris, you guys won't change my opinion but the debate is good.

Tell me why you feel or what has Harris shown to make you want to pay the guy "now" cause all I'm seeing from you guys are "If he can put up 20ppg" "If Tobias can..."?

Extension deadline got y'all jittery?

Also never said he won't eventually be worth that kind of deal, he isn't worth it now though.

Wanna change your mind?

He has got to be trolling...