Vucevic gets 4 years $54 million extension!

[GameOver25]

Wait I thought this was a Vucevic thread? Seriously though, I think Tobias is underrated on this board. First people call him a tweener, he has no true position, and won't be able to effectively play the 3 or 4. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed he can stay healthy this year because I'm sick of those who downplay him and I will be so ecstatic when he balls out of control and convert those who doubted him into groupies.

[MagicStarwipe]

What I'm basically saying is that Harris doesn't have the agility, quickness or handles of Oladipo. I haven't seen him finish all that well at the rim in traffic and that goes along with agility and athleticism (Oladipo was shaky finishing at the rim as well but he was a green rookie and showed plenty of potential there with some great plays and finishes).

Tobias Harris shot 70.5% Again, SEVENTY AND A HALF PERCENT at the rim 0-3 feet. If you haven't "seen" him consistently finish inside then you simply have not been watching.

Victor shot 55.5% at the rim. 55.5% versus 70.5% (66.8% CAREER BTW).

But because you saw a couple flashy dunks every on a drive every 5-10 games from Victor and Tobias just puts the ball in the basket, in your mind TOBIAS is the guy that has trouble finishing at the rim in traffic??

Dude, I said in TRAFFIC. Tobias rarely gets all the way to the rim in the half court to even be met by defenders. He gets there off cuts and running the break. Open layups and dunks. How often do you see him take it all the way to the rim in the half court challenging shot blockers and finishing? Give me those numbers.

Man, you can't say anything about Tobias here. If you're not calling him a future superstar you're just "biased" or "hating". I like Tobias. I want him on the Magic. I've been a fan since his first game in a Magic jersey. I don't think he's the next Carmelo Anthony. Sorry.

[mojosodope]

What I'm basically saying is that Harris doesn't have the agility, quickness or handles of Oladipo. I haven't seen him finish all that well at the rim in traffic and that goes along with agility and athleticism (Oladipo was shaky finishing at the rim as well but he was a green rookie and showed plenty of potential there with some great plays and finishes).

Tobias Harris shot 70.5% Again, SEVENTY AND A HALF PERCENT at the rim 0-3 feet. If you haven't "seen" him consistently finish inside then you simply have not been watching.

Victor shot 55.5% at the rim. 55.5% versus 70.5% (66.8% CAREER BTW).

But because you saw a couple flashy dunks every on a drive every 5-10 games from Victor and Tobias just puts the ball in the basket, in your mind TOBIAS is the guy that has trouble finishing at the rim in traffic??

Dude, I said in TRAFFIC. Tobias rarely gets all the way to the rim in the half court to even be met by defenders. He gets there off cuts and running the break. Open layups and dunks. How often do you see him take it all the way to the rim in the half court challenging shot blockers and finishing? Give me those numbers.

Man, you can't say anything about Tobias here. If you're not calling him a future superstar you're just "biased" or "hating". I like Tobias. I want him on the Magic. I've been a fan since his first game in a Magic jersey. I don't think he's the next Carmelo Anthony. Sorry.

Oh you mean when he knows when to pull up for his efficient mid-range jumper? But instead of that meaning his game is "versatile" you have found a way for it to mean "he doesn't get to the rim"

I'm losing hope in this board. Do some of you even KNOW basketball other than what you think you are supposed to cheer for?

[Neon1]

What I'm basically saying is that Harris doesn't have the agility, quickness or handles of Oladipo. I haven't seen him finish all that well at the rim in traffic and that goes along with agility and athleticism (Oladipo was shaky finishing at the rim as well but he was a green rookie and showed plenty of potential there with some great plays and finishes).

Tobias Harris shot 70.5% Again, SEVENTY AND A HALF PERCENT at the rim 0-3 feet. If you haven't "seen" him consistently finish inside then you simply have not been watching.

Victor shot 55.5% at the rim. 55.5% versus 70.5% (66.8% CAREER BTW).

But because you saw a couple flashy dunks every on a drive every 5-10 games from Victor and Tobias just puts the ball in the basket, in your mind TOBIAS is the guy that has trouble finishing at the rim in traffic??

Dude, I said in TRAFFIC. Tobias rarely gets all the way to the rim in the half court to even be met by defenders. He gets there off cuts and running the break. Open layups and dunks. How often do you see him take it all the way to the rim in the half court challenging shot blockers and finishing? Give me those numbers.

Man, you can't say anything about Tobias here. If you're not calling him a future superstar you're just "biased" or "hating". I like Tobias. I want him on the Magic. I've been a fan since his first game in a Magic jersey. I don't think he's the next Carmelo Anthony. Sorry.

Those are numbers for 0-3 feet from the rim where the heck do you think the traffic is????

Sent from my SM-N900P using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Blue_and_Whte]

Man, you can't say anything about Tobias here. If you're not calling him a future superstar you're just "biased" or "hating". I like Tobias. I want him on the Magic. I've been a fan since his first game in a Magic jersey. I don't think he's the next Carmelo Anthony. Sorry.

#RealTalk
How dare you have your own opinion about Tobias. Obey sheep...

[Orlwillbeback]

the tobias hate is real.

[MagicStarwipe]

Tobias Harris shot 70.5% Again, SEVENTY AND A HALF PERCENT at the rim 0-3 feet. If you haven't "seen" him consistently finish inside then you simply have not been watching.

Victor shot 55.5% at the rim. 55.5% versus 70.5% (66.8% CAREER BTW).

But because you saw a couple flashy dunks every on a drive every 5-10 games from Victor and Tobias just puts the ball in the basket, in your mind TOBIAS is the guy that has trouble finishing at the rim in traffic??

Dude, I said in TRAFFIC. Tobias rarely gets all the way to the rim in the half court to even be met by defenders. He gets there off cuts and running the break. Open layups and dunks. How often do you see him take it all the way to the rim in the half court challenging shot blockers and finishing? Give me those numbers.

Man, you can't say anything about Tobias here. If you're not calling him a future superstar you're just "biased" or "hating". I like Tobias. I want him on the Magic. I've been a fan since his first game in a Magic jersey. I don't think he's the next Carmelo Anthony. Sorry.

Those are numbers for 0-3 feet from the rim where the heck do you think the traffic is????

Sent from my SM-N900P using RealGM Forums mobile app

You seriously don't get what I'm saying? Or your feelings are just hurt that I'm giving a light criticism on Tobias' game? I rarely look at advanced stats or analytics, I just watch the games. But you're all acting like ass-hats, so looky what I found. This doesn't say anything about defenders being in the area so you don't know how many of these are easy fast break finishes, but you get an idea of what I'm trying to say.

Pay particular attention to the percentage of FG's assisted and un-assisted.

Tobias Harris
Driving Layup Shot - FGM: 32, FGA: 42, FG%: 81.0%, BLKA: 3, FGM (%AST): 61.8%, FGM (%UAST): 38.2%

Victor Oladipo
Driving Layup Shot - FGM: 101, FGA: 166, FG%: 60.8%, BLKA: 21, FGM (%AST): 12.9%, FGM (%UAST): 87.1%

----------

Tobias Harris
Driving Reverse Layup Shot - FGM: 2, FGA: 3, FG%: 66.7%, BLKA: 0, FGM (%AST): 50%, FGM (%UAST): 50%

Victor Oladipo
Driving Reverse Layup Shot - FGM: 10, FGA: 16, FG%: 62.5%, BLKA: 1, FGM (%AST): 30%, FGM (%UAST): 70%

----------

Tobias Harris
Driving Slam Dunk Shot - FGM: 0, FGA: 0, FG%: 0.0%, BLKA: 0, FGM (%AST): 0.0%, FGM (%UAST): 0.0%

Victor Oladipo
Driving Slam Dunk Shot - FGM: 6, FGA: 6, FG%: 100%, BLKA: 0, FGM (%AST): 33.3%, FGM (%UAST): 66.7%

Now, getting to the FT line can also be a good indicator here. Tobias and Victor both averaged 4 FTA per game. But I believe it's fair to say that we'd see Victor get hammered all season with no call (we complained about it seemingly every game). Rookies rarely get calls in this league. Safe to say he should have been at the FT line even more.

Now am I making stuff up out of my ass because I'm "supposed to think something" or because Victor was the #2 pick, or did I just watch the games and objectively notice something?

For the record, Tobias was 15-16 on dunks for the season and Victor was 10-10. I'd say that's where the fast breaks and cutting catch and finishes come into play.

[Orlwillbeback]

You seriously don't get what I'm saying? Or your feelings are just hurt that I'm giving a light criticism on Tobias' game? I rarely look at advanced stats or analytics, I just watch the games. But you're all acting like ass-hats, so looky what I found. This doesn't say anything about defenders being in the area so you don't know how many of these are easy fast break finishes, but you get an idea of what I'm trying to say.

Pay particular attention to the percentage of FG's assisted and un-assisted.

Tobias Harris
Driving Layup Shot - FGM: 32, FGA: 42, FG%: 81.0%, BLKA: 3, FGM (%AST): 61.8%, FGM (%UAST): 38.2%

Victor Oladipo
Driving Layup Shot - FGM: 101, FGA: 166, FG%: 60.8%, BLKA: 21, FGM (%AST): 12.9%, FGM (%UAST): 87.1%

----------

Tobias Harris
Driving Reverse Layup Shot - FGM: 2, FGA: 3, FG%: 66.7%, BLKA: 0, FGM (%AST): 50%, FGM (%UAST): 50%

Victor Oladipo
Driving Reverse Layup Shot - FGM: 10, FGA: 16, FG%: 62.5%, BLKA: 1, FGM (%AST): 30%, FGM (%UAST): 70%

----------

Tobias Harris
Driving Slam Dunk Shot - FGM: 0, FGA: 0, FG%: 0.0%, BLKA: 0, FGM (%AST): 0.0%, FGM (%UAST): 0.0%

Victor Oladipo
Driving Slam Dunk Shot - FGM: 6, FGA: 6, FG%: 100%, BLKA: 0, FGM (%AST): 33.3%, FGM (%UAST): 66.7%

Now, getting to the FT line can also be a good indicator here. Tobias and Victor both averaged 4 FTA per game. But I believe it's fair to say that we'd see Victor get hammered all season with no call (we complained about it seemingly every game). Rookies rarely get calls in this league. Safe to say he should have been at the FT line even more.

Now am I making stuff up out of my ass because I'm "supposed to think something" or because Victor was the #2 pick, or did I just watch the games and objectively notice something?

no you are still hating because this stat doesnt mean much.

[MagicStarwipe]

I'm hating? I'm saying Victor is better at attacking off the dribble in the half court and getting all the way to the rim. This is one reason why I say Victor has POTENTIAL (PO-TEN-TIAL) to be a "better" scorer than Tobias. Getting to the rim, getting to the FT line, getting points.

[Orlwillbeback]

I'm hating? I'm saying Victor is better at attacking off the dribble in the half court and getting all the way to the rim. This is one reason why I say Victor has POTENTIAL (PO-TEN-TIAL) to be a "better" scorer than Tobias. Getting to the rim, getting to the FT line, getting points.

how, in what way, does that mean he has more potential than tobias on the offensive side of the ball? Tobias gets his offense in a variety of ways whereas last year Oladipo just dominated the ball. Oladipo needs to go off the ball and learn ways to score without the ball in his hands, which is after all what he was so good at in college anyways and likely the way our FO's sees him.

Last year was an abberration and Oladipo should never handle the ball that much again until he lowers his turnover rate and converts more of his drives. Harris is a much better scorer than Oladipo right now and he doesnt have lower potential because he didnt force shots as much as oladipo did.

I swear this is absurd.

[mojosodope]

I'm hating? I'm saying Victor is better at attacking off the dribble in the half court and getting all the way to the rim. This is one reason why I say Victor has POTENTIAL (PO-TEN-TIAL) to be a "better" scorer than Tobias. Getting to the rim, getting to the FT line, getting points.

but that isnt what that stat means

also it's harder to get assisted buckets if you are the primary ball handler

furthermore here is an example of a CONTESTED dunk, a finish in traffic or whatever you want to call it.

[Neon1]

I'm hating? I'm saying Victor is better at attacking off the dribble in the half court and getting all the way to the rim. This is one reason why I say Victor has POTENTIAL (PO-TEN-TIAL) to be a "better" scorer than Tobias. Getting to the rim, getting to the FT line, getting points.

Oladipo is a SG/PG and Tobias is a SF/PF, He SHOULD BE better the him in the ball handling aspects. Outside of that Oladipo gets to the FT line at the same rate as Tobias (.340 for Victor / .341 for Tobias), so how does one have the "potential" to be so much, while the other just gets these caps thrust on him, without any statistical evidence pointing to these being anything more then preconceived notions that people got in their head about a player regardless of if they actually see it happen or not?

This isn't a case of people getting in feelings about a Harris criticism, the reason people respond this way is because with Tobias in particular, certain fans here just seem to have these assumptions about his game whether its from some 4 year old inaccurate draft scouting report, or just a general line people attach to a guy without ever seeing evidence that supports their assumption.

[MagicStarwipe]

I'm hating? I'm saying Victor is better at attacking off the dribble in the half court and getting all the way to the rim. This is one reason why I say Victor has POTENTIAL (PO-TEN-TIAL) to be a "better" scorer than Tobias. Getting to the rim, getting to the FT line, getting points.

Oladipo is a SG/PG and Tobias is a SF/PF, He SHOULD BE better the him in the ball handling aspects. Outside of that Oladipo gets to the FT line at the same rate as Tobias (.340 for Victor / .341 for Tobias), so how does one have the "potential" to be so much, while the other just gets these caps thrust on him, without any statistical evidence pointing to these being anything more then preconceived notions that people got in their head about a player regardless of if they actually see it happen or not?

This isn't a case of people getting in feelings about a Harris criticism, the reason people respond this way is because with Tobias in particular, certain fans here just seem to have these assumptions about his game whether its from some 4 year old inaccurate draft scouting report, or just a general line people attach to a guy without ever seeing evidence that supports their assumption.

You watched last season. You didn't believe Victor in particular deserved to get to the line a hell of a lot more than he actually did? Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Tobias is and forever will be superior to Victor at everything on the offensive side of a basketball court. It's just an opinion. I'm pretty sure this season will give us our best look at these guys yet.

[Neon1]

You watched last season. You didn't believe Victor in particular deserved to get to the line a hell of a lot more than he actually did? Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Tobias is and forever will be superior to Victor at everything on the offensive side of a basketball court. It's just an opinion. I'm pretty sure this season will give us our best look at these guys yet.

Sure he had a LOT of calls through the season where he didn't get the whistle but all players get that. Dipo's missed calls isn't going to be so astronomically higher above everyone else's missed calls to make a significant change in their FT rates.

My only issue is when I see/hear/read things that are not consistent, and the rationale changes based upon which player is being talked about.

[tooler]

I'm actually astonished Vic had 4.0 FTA per game last season. It felt like an event every time he drew one. Maybe it was rookie calls or maybe the refs want him to prove he can finish at the basket with control before they start bailing him out.