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Does AG at power forward make everything else work?

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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#141 » by BadMofoPimp » Sat Aug 8, 2015 11:51 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Prove it.


This is so easy. Gordon played 66% of his time at PF last season. As far as the future, you will just have to wait and see then be entirely disappointed with the results. But, I have a feeling that you will deal with it and enjoy the end result.


Once again, prove it. I know where you are getting that stat from and it's completely inaccurate.


PROVE ME WRONG!

Last season, 66 percent of his minutes at power forward according to Basketball-Reference.


http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/07/22/can-aaron-gordon-be-a-full-time-power-forward/

I used facts there. What facts do you bring to the table besides looking at a players ability and "thinking" they should primarily play a certain position?
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#142 » by MagicStarwipe » Sun Aug 9, 2015 12:02 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
This is so easy. Gordon played 66% of his time at PF last season. As far as the future, you will just have to wait and see then be entirely disappointed with the results. But, I have a feeling that you will deal with it and enjoy the end result.


Once again, prove it. I know where you are getting that stat from and it's completely inaccurate.


PROVE ME WRONG!

Last season, 66 percent of his minutes at power forward according to Basketball-Reference.


http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/07/22/can-aaron-gordon-be-a-full-time-power-forward/

I used facts there. What facts do you bring to the table besides looking at a players ability and "thinking" they should primarily play a certain position?

First of all, those aren't facts. The site itself says it's an estimation. Second of all, the site is wrong because they assume Aaron played PF whenever he was on the court with Tobias. Anyone who watched the games can see that was not the case. The top 5 lineups Aaron played with all featured him at SF. So yeah, proved you wrong.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#143 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Aug 9, 2015 12:04 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Once again, prove it. I know where you are getting that stat from and it's completely inaccurate.


PROVE ME WRONG!

Last season, 66 percent of his minutes at power forward according to Basketball-Reference.


http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/07/22/can-aaron-gordon-be-a-full-time-power-forward/

I used facts there. What facts do you bring to the table besides looking at a players ability and "thinking" they should primarily play a certain position?

First of all, those aren't facts. The site itself says it's an estimation. Second of all, the site is wrong because they assume Aaron played PF whenever he was on the court with Tobias. Anyone who watched the games can see that was not the case. The top 5 lineups Aaron played with all featured him at SF. So yeah, proved you wrong.


FYI. Top 5 lineups is not minutes played. Just wait and see over the next five years. Gordon will not end up as a primary SF just like Ben Wallace ended up a 6'9" Center.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#144 » by MagicStarwipe » Sun Aug 9, 2015 12:07 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
PROVE ME WRONG!



http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/07/22/can-aaron-gordon-be-a-full-time-power-forward/

I used facts there. What facts do you bring to the table besides looking at a players ability and "thinking" they should primarily play a certain position?

First of all, those aren't facts. The site itself says it's an estimation. Second of all, the site is wrong because they assume Aaron played PF whenever he was on the court with Tobias. Anyone who watched the games can see that was not the case. The top 5 lineups Aaron played with all featured him at SF. So yeah, proved you wrong.


FYI. Top 5 lineups is not minutes played. Just wait and see over the next five years. Gordon will not end up as a primary SF just like Ben Wallace ended up a 6'9" Center.


Actually, it is.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01/lineups/2015/
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#145 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Aug 9, 2015 12:11 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:First of all, those aren't facts. The site itself says it's an estimation. Second of all, the site is wrong because they assume Aaron played PF whenever he was on the court with Tobias. Anyone who watched the games can see that was not the case. The top 5 lineups Aaron played with all featured him at SF. So yeah, proved you wrong.


FYI. Top 5 lineups is not minutes played. Just wait and see over the next five years. Gordon will not end up as a primary SF just like Ben Wallace ended up a 6'9" Center.


Actually, it is.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01/lineups/2015/


Ohhh ok. Total minutes then.

This is like taking a 19 year old's physique and trying to pigeon hole him into a position I feel he is not best suited for. He will be called upon to guard the Lebrons, Durants etc. But, he is best suited, in my opinion and I bet most coaches at PF. Just wait and see. He will end up a primary PF within a year or two.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: 

Post#146 » by ogmagicfan » Sun Aug 9, 2015 8:33 am

ezzzp wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
ogmagicfan wrote:
Ehh, Lewis was actually a great defender and extremely underrated. On top of that we had arguably the most dominant defender of this century in Dwight. In Dwight's prime he was right up there with LeBron & Kobe in terms of sheer IMPACT on the game on both sides of the ball. You could even argue Dwight was the most impactful player in the NBA in his prime.

I'm optimistic that Vuc can become an above average defender though. Vaughn really was awful on both sides of the ball but especially defense. Vuc has great physical gifts like his 7'5 wingspan and has a willing to learn and has a high basketball IQ on offense and I think it'll be able to translate on the defensive end by having a great defensive coach like Skiles teach him the right way to play defense.

And you're right, defense is a team effort. And we have great defensive talents especially at the guards. No reason why in 2 years Orlando shouldn't be a top 10 defense.



Oh dear

I heard it all

we had arguably the most dominant defender of this century in Dwight.

Lol


Ben Wallace probably had as much impact (4 x DPOY) but that's about it but in the context of ogmagicfan's remark its not crazy like you insinuate


Yeah Ben Wallace & KG were the only two players that could challenge, but I feel like Dwight was honestly more intimidating size wise. Plus the amount of shots Dwight adjusted without blocking and stopped from happening is probably insanely high, not that Ben Wallace & KG's arent high but I feel Dwight's harder.

Plus Wallace's team had far better defense player individually too to help out Ben Wallace. Rashard Lewis was highly underrated and we usually had a good defender at either the SG or SF position, but apart from that, our team was weak individually on defense.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#147 » by seeingstars » Sun Aug 9, 2015 7:18 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
FYI. Top 5 lineups is not minutes played. Just wait and see over the next five years. Gordon will not end up as a primary SF just like Ben Wallace ended up a 6'9" Center.


Actually, it is.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01/lineups/2015/
j

Ohhh ok. Total minutes then.

This is like taking a 19 year old's physique and trying to pigeon hole him into a position I feel he is not best suited for. He will be called upon to guard the Lebrons, Durants etc. But, he is best suited, in my opinion and I bet most coaches at PF. Just wait and see. He will end up a primary PF within a year or two.


Aaron stated it himself, its where his best offensive mismatchs will be
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#148 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Aug 9, 2015 7:38 pm

seeingstars wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
j

Ohhh ok. Total minutes then.

This is like taking a 19 year old's physique and trying to pigeon hole him into a position I feel he is not best suited for. He will be called upon to guard the Lebrons, Durants etc. But, he is best suited, in my opinion and I bet most coaches at PF. Just wait and see. He will end up a primary PF within a year or two.


Aaron stated it himself, its where his best offensive mismatchs will be


He sure likes to contradict himself as he has also said the opposite. I think his words are taken out of context. But, more frequently, I always hear players stating the position they like to play more often than the position coaches make them play. It will be fun proving everyone all wrong with my predictions.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#149 » by seeingstars » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:07 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:
seeingstars wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:j

Ohhh ok. Total minutes then.

This is like taking a 19 year old's physique and trying to pigeon hole him into a position I feel he is not best suited for. He will be called upon to guard the Lebrons, Durants etc. But, he is best suited, in my opinion and I bet most coaches at PF. Just wait and see. He will end up a primary PF within a year or two.


Aaron stated it himself, its where his best offensive mismatchs will be


He sure likes to contradict himself as he has also said the opposite. I think his words are taken out of context. But, more frequently, I always hear players stating the position they like to play more often than the position coaches make them play. It will be fun proving everyone all wrong with my predictions.


Just to clear things up, I'm referring to Aaron stating his offensive mismatchs while playing the 4, which is where he'd do the most damage imo as well.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#150 » by ivDT » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:49 am

seeingstars wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
seeingstars wrote:
Aaron stated it himself, its where his best offensive mismatchs will be


He sure likes to contradict himself as he has also said the opposite. I think his words are taken out of context. But, more frequently, I always hear players stating the position they like to play more often than the position coaches make them play. It will be fun proving everyone all wrong with my predictions.


Just to clear things up, I'm referring to Aaron stating his offensive mismatchs while playing the 4, which is where he'd do the most damage imo as well.


can you think of any small forwards that wouldn't do more damage being guarded by power forwards? mofo here has already said that aaron will be called upon to guard the elite 3s in this league despite supposedly being a more natural fit the 4.

at some point people will start putting 2 and 2 together here...
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#151 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:52 pm

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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#152 » by ezzzp » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:33 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
FYI. Top 5 lineups is not minutes played. Just wait and see over the next five years. Gordon will not end up as a primary SF just like Ben Wallace ended up a 6'9" Center.


Actually, it is.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01/lineups/2015/


Ohhh ok. Total minutes then.

This is like taking a 19 year old's physique and trying to pigeon hole him into a position I feel he is not best suited for. He will be called upon to guard the Lebrons, Durants etc. But, he is best suited, in my opinion and I bet most coaches at PF. Just wait and see. He will end up a primary PF within a year or two.


The problem with this statement is that you are assuming the roster is complete and that Harris is the other starting forward in 1-2 years...While I think Gordon will be fine if he is forced to defend the bigger or elite forwards, the overall front court does not look like it can match up.

If the front court includes both Harris and Gordon look at these match-ups vs the weaker Eastern Conference:

Harris + Gordon + Vuc

vs

Cleveland: Lebron + Love + Mosgov

Chicago: Dunleavy + Gasol + Noah

Miami: Deng + Bosh + Whiteside

Atlanta: Sefalosha + Horford + Splitter *can also use Milsap at 3 like Utah did

Charlotte: Batum + Kaminski + Jefferson

Toronto: Carrol + Patterson + Valenciuanas

Milwaukee: Antetokuonopo + Parker + Monroe

Minnesota: Wiggins + Towns + Pekovich or Dieng

Brooklyn: Johnson + Young + B Lopez

NY: Anthony + Porzingis + R Lopez

Boston: Turner + Lee + Zeller

Washington: Porter + Nene + Gortat
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#153 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:52 pm

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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#154 » by Orlwillbeback » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:55 pm

Aarons best position may be sf but he will play pf because he can guard both positions well whereas harris is not a good defender at either spot but is less overmatched at 3.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#155 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:18 pm

Being Mario is also a 3, then that further pushes Gordon to more PF minutes.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#156 » by Orlwillbeback » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:33 pm

Do you guys want to see AG succeed before the magic do?
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#157 » by ezzzp » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:04 pm

Mario was a PG until 17 and a SG ever since then...yes he has size for a 3 but that is not what he has played ever and it wasn't where he played in summer league...

....and Dedmon was the Magic's starter at the 4 at season's end...with his first full guaranteed offseason and camp with the team, and Skiles' emphasis on defense, what makes anyone think his role will be reduced?

+ Fournier will be RFA this summer
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#158 » by Tayswagzzz » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:43 pm

ezzzp wrote:Mario was a PG until 17 and a SG ever since then...yes he has size for a 3 but that is not what he has played ever and it wasn't where he played in summer league...

....and Dedmon was the Magic's starter at the 4 at season's end...with his first full guaranteed offseason and camp with the team, and Skiles' emphasis on defense, what makes anyone think his role will be reduced?

+ Fournier will be RFA this summer


Good points.

I'm curious if Fournier will be used as valuable trade bait seeing as how we'll have Oladipo/Hezonja/Marble to play SG. Guess it depends on $$$.
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#159 » by seeingstars » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:16 pm

ivDT wrote:
seeingstars wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
He sure likes to contradict himself as he has also said the opposite. I think his words are taken out of context. But, more frequently, I always hear players stating the position they like to play more often than the position coaches make them play. It will be fun proving everyone all wrong with my predictions.


Just to clear things up, I'm referring to Aaron stating his offensive mismatchs while playing the 4, which is where he'd do the most damage imo as well.


can you think of any small forwards that wouldn't do more damage being guarded by power forwards? mofo here has already said that aaron will be called upon to guard the elite 3s in this league despite supposedly being a more natural fit the 4.

at some point people will start putting 2 and 2 together here...


Actually, were putting 3 and 4 together 8-)
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Re: Is AG at power forward make everything else work? 

Post#160 » by Catledge » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:48 pm

ezzzp wrote:Mario was sea PG until 17 and a SG ever since then...yes he has size for a 3 but that is not what he has played ever and it wasn't where he played in summer league...


Just because he played that position as a youth international and in spot minutes professionally in Spain, that doesn't mean it is a lock to be his NBA position. There are very few guys in the 6'8" - 6'10" range that can both defend NBA SGs and handle the ball against them. I've only seen him in highlights and summer league, but what little I saw didn't make me think that he would break that trend.

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