Official 2015 Orlando Magic TC/Preseason Thread

[Crabman]

OMG did he just dunk over Vlade Divac?!!!

Be a man and just tell me who YOU THINK he will start over... Dipo, Harris or Gordon? Nobody wants to answer this. tiderulz came close to saying Dipo but he copped out stopping short of saying that.

Ok ill bite... obviously this is based on the information we currently have yadayada but i could envision us running a lineup with Mario at starting SF, AG at starting PF and Tobes off the bench. Would mean we have more shooting on the court, and also have a defensive minded PF in AG to play the Serge Ibaka role. Tobes would then bring versatility off the bench as the backup at SF/PF with AG being able to move around as well. I also think that the instant offense type guys which Tobes is works a lot better where they are given the freedom to be "the man" so to speak. So him working with the bench mob makes sense for me.

Also, a lineup consisting of Elf, Vic, Mario, and AG would be possibly the fastest, most athletic and best defensive team in the league.

Mad respect for that. I can appreciate your thoughts because at least you put it out there to converse about. I'm not about to bash it. Putting Harris on the bench is an interesting idea. I don't think he would handle taking it as a permanent place to be in, but we are paying him so he should do whatever he's told to. Iggy did that the last 2 years. You can tell he didn't love it, but he did it to help the team and he did get a big contract. The biggest difference though is Tobe is in his prime. Iggy is beyond that stage of his career.

The other point you made was saying we would have better shooting on the court, but I didn't think Tobe was a shooting liability. He shot really well last season and has been practicing 3s a lot according to what he said at media day. I don't know if Hezonja is going to produce significant increase in 3PT volume and percentage, but we shall see.

Tobias isn't the type of shooter that will run around screens. Mario will be able to fill that role. He'll give us much better off the ball movement. With Payton and Oladipo in the line up we already have 2 players that need the ball to be effective, and even Vucevic needs his touches in the post. Plus, teams would respect Mario's shot more than Tobias'. Mario can catch fire and hit 8 threes in one game. You won't want to leave him open. Also, ball movement and defense would be way better with Mario. Tobias' game is more suited to coming off the bench.

[shadrock]

OMG did he just dunk over Vlade Divac?!!!

Be a man and just tell me who YOU THINK he will start over... Dipo, Harris or Gordon? Nobody wants to answer this. tiderulz came close to saying Dipo but he copped out stopping short of saying that.

Ok ill bite... obviously this is based on the information we currently have yadayada but i could envision us running a lineup with Mario at starting SF, AG at starting PF and Tobes off the bench. Would mean we have more shooting on the court, and also have a defensive minded PF in AG to play the Serge Ibaka role. Tobes would then bring versatility off the bench as the backup at SF/PF with AG being able to move around as well. I also think that the instant offense type guys which Tobes is works a lot better where they are given the freedom to be "the man" so to speak. So him working with the bench mob makes sense for me.

Also, a lineup consisting of Elf, Vic, Mario, and AG would be possibly the fastest, most athletic and best defensive team in the league.

Mad respect for that. I can appreciate your thoughts because at least you put it out there to converse about. I'm not about to bash it. Putting Harris on the bench is an interesting idea. I don't think he would handle taking it as a permanent place to be in, but we are paying him so he should do whatever he's told to. Iggy did that the last 2 years. You can tell he didn't love it, but he did it to help the team and he did get a big contract. The biggest difference though is Tobe is in his prime. Iggy is beyond that stage of his career.

The other point you made was saying we would have better shooting on the court, but I didn't think Tobe was a shooting liability. He shot really well last season and has been practicing 3s a lot according to what he said at media day. I don't know if Hezonja is going to produce significant increase in 3PT volume and percentage, but we shall see.

I personally think Tobes would accept the bench role. And to be honest, a lot of genuine star guys play off the bench these days, its not as big of an issue as it used to be. As for Mario not being a significantly better 3pt shooter than Tobes, i would have to disagree. Ofcourse Mario hasnt even played a signle game yet, but still i think its fair to say Mario is a potential elite shooter. Not many people can go 8/8 from 3 in a single game, which he did last season at FC Barcelona. His release is faster, he is way more deadly off the dribble. Its really not close in my view. Mario could be high volume high percentage and his shooting a focal point of the offence, whereas Tobes is more the kinda guy who will knock them down when they come his way, but hes not going to shake someone down and pull up off the dribble.

[Catledge]

Meanwhile, the current Magic team: I've agonized over it, and I'm officially coming down on the side of starting Dedmon and Vooch together in the front court. Vooch guards the 5 on defense, but Dedmon plays the 5 on offense. I know it's imperfect, but all of our options are imperfect.

[tillyoubleed]

So from what I understand Vuc, Gordon, and Fournier won't be suiting up for tomorrow's game. That leaves a bunch of minutes for others to get some playing time.

[RickB-Orlando]

My problem with Hezo centered around people talking about his potential to become a star in this team and i dont see it yet. All i see so far is a player with the potential to become a solid 3 point shooter and a good defender when he's focused.

Just like Gordon has shown that he has the potential to become a great defensive player(he already is) with an improve outside shot..

Considering he hasn't played in a single NBA game, what are you basing this judgement on - a few training camp clips? It seems a bit too early to be writing the guy off.

Good Lord, how about we watch some actual NBA games before we decide he's *just* a "solid 3 point shooter and good defender" (as if that would be a bad thing)

[RickB-Orlando]

well alrighty thennnn...

I'm ok with talking about Hezonja as a spot starter in case of injury. Just don't see it happening without one.

Mario does not agree with you

OMG did he just dunk over Vlade Divac?!!!

Be a man and just tell me who YOU THINK he will start over... Dipo, Harris or Gordon? Nobody wants to answer this. tiderulz came close to saying Dipo but he copped out stopping short of saying that.

I don't know that he'll start this year but I could see a three man rotation of Harris, Gordon, and Hezo at the forward positions. I could also see him starting at some point over Gordon if Scottie decides we need more offense and for whatever reason AG is better suited to a 6th - 7th man role.

[Skin]

Meanwhile, the current Magic team: I've agonized over it, and I'm officially coming down on the side of starting Dedmon and Vooch together in the front court. Vooch guards the 5 on defense, but Dedmon plays the 5 on offense. I know it's imperfect, but all of our options are imperfect.

I said I wanted it a few pages ago too. *high 5*

AG at PF in small ball or guarding the other team's best guy.

[ezzzp]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2014/06/23/graphic-how-last-nba-championship-teams-were-built/xx1f6ZcutGioIufaARPsnI/story.html

The only thing that graphic told me was that there are many different ways to win it. If we broke down our Top 12 it would be:

Darft (5) - Payton, Oladipo, Hezonja, Gordon, Nicholson

FA (3) - Watson, Frye, Dedmon

Trade (4) - Napier, Fournier, Harris, Vucevic

What did you want me to get from that?

You should have learned that:

• the starting 5 plus key players of all those teams were acquired in a variety of ways

• the starting 5 plus key players of all those teams were acquired at various stages of their rebuild

• none of those team's starting 5 were all acquired within a 3 year window as you insist the Magic should have done.

• that nearly all drafted talent and in many cases flipped those assets to upgrade or achieve the right mix.

[shadrock]

Ok ill bite... obviously this is based on the information we currently have yadayada but i could envision us running a lineup with Mario at starting SF, AG at starting PF and Tobes off the bench. Would mean we have more shooting on the court, and also have a defensive minded PF in AG to play the Serge Ibaka role. Tobes would then bring versatility off the bench as the backup at SF/PF with AG being able to move around as well. I also think that the instant offense type guys which Tobes is works a lot better where they are given the freedom to be "the man" so to speak. So him working with the bench mob makes sense for me.

Also, a lineup consisting of Elf, Vic, Mario, and AG would be possibly the fastest, most athletic and best defensive team in the league.

Mad respect for that. I can appreciate your thoughts because at least you put it out there to converse about. I'm not about to bash it. Putting Harris on the bench is an interesting idea. I don't think he would handle taking it as a permanent place to be in, but we are paying him so he should do whatever he's told to. Iggy did that the last 2 years. You can tell he didn't love it, but he did it to help the team and he did get a big contract. The biggest difference though is Tobe is in his prime. Iggy is beyond that stage of his career.

The other point you made was saying we would have better shooting on the court, but I didn't think Tobe was a shooting liability. He shot really well last season and has been practicing 3s a lot according to what he said at media day. I don't know if Hezonja is going to produce significant increase in 3PT volume and percentage, but we shall see.

Tobias isn't the type of shooter that will run around screens. Mario will be able to fill that role. He'll give us much better off the ball movement. With Payton and Oladipo in the line up we already have 2 players that need the ball to be effective, and even Vucevic needs his touches in the post. Plus, teams would respect Mario's shot more than Tobias'. Mario can catch fire and hit 8 threes in one game. You won't want to leave him open. Also, ball movement and defense would be way better with Mario. Tobias' game is more suited to coming off the bench.

Haha, we both essentially made the same post at the same time. So safe to say i agree 100%.

[shadrock]

Meanwhile, the current Magic team: I've agonized over it, and I'm officially coming down on the side of starting Dedmon and Vooch together in the front court. Vooch guards the 5 on defense, but Dedmon plays the 5 on offense. I know it's imperfect, but all of our options are imperfect.

I said I wanted it a few pages ago too. *high 5*

AG at PF in small ball or guarding the other team's best guy.

Why only in small ball for AG? The guy is looking huge, and is well on trajectory to be a bigger and stronger than your average PF. Plus his defense is next level.

[ezzzp]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/OrlandoMagic/status/650089851040067584[/tweet]

[Magic_Time]

My problem with Hezo centered around people talking about his potential to become a star in this team and i dont see it yet. All i see so far is a player with the potential to become a solid 3 point shooter and a good defender when he's focused.

Just like Gordon has shown that he has the potential to become a great defensive player(he already is) with an improve outside shot..

Considering he hasn't played in a single NBA game, what are you basing this judgement on - a few training camp clips? It seems a bit too early to be writing the guy off.

Good Lord, how about we watch some actual NBA games before we decide he's *just* a "solid 3 point shooter and good defender" (as if that would be a bad thing)

Lol.. You guys make me laugh.. So sensitive..
Who write Hezonja off? .. And who said be a good defender and be a 3 point shooter was a bad thing?.. Smh.. Training camp clips? I've seen the guy play countless of times for clubs and country and i know what am talking about.. Unlike some of you who gets excited about just a youtube video or when he shows flashes of brilliance in just one play in a whole game(that's if u actually watch one of his complete game )
I really like the guy, and wants him to be great.. And please, pay attention to my ifs, instead of chopping out little sentences when u leaving out the whole idea am trying to make..
the media and even us magic fans are hyping Hezonja up, like we do with all of our players and we never learn..
Remember Harkless, the next pippen or Paul George...
Alright, u believe he has potential to be a big time star.. Ok fine.. That's your opinions. All am trying to say it's 50/50..
He has the potential to be a big time all around star player and he also has the potential to become a good defender and a great 3 point shooter.
On my previous posts, i point out his weaknesses and mentioned that if he improves them, he'll b that star if he doesnt, he'll be the latter.
And so far he has shown the potential to be a good defender and 3 point shooter. And that's my opinion.. Until he shows more than those 2 things against NBA caliber players consistently, now we can talk about his potential to become the star player...

Very simple, don't complicate things.. Am also on your side.. Cause we want all of our players to be allstars.. Lol

[Magic_Time]

Ok.. Well, i hope u right that he'll become more than a transition and a 3 point player. Cause, 80 to 90 percent of the game is based on the half court plays, especially comes playoffs time.. Cause if he doesnt add more to his game than the same things that what we are use to see from him so far for the past 3-4 years, he'll always b a bench player..

Your concerns are that Hezonja's physical ability and skill set from the age of 20 until he retires, will remain the same as they were from when he was age 15 to 19? that's the basis for your skepticism on Hezonja?

So, u skip the part where i start by saying...
if he doesnt add more to his game than the same things that what we are use to see from him so far for the past 3-4 years..

Let me remind u, there are alot of players who enter the league and never really improve much on any aspect of their game for over a decade they've been in the league.. And u kno it's true..
Everything i say are base on what i see from him now, not what i cant see in the future that most of us are acting like u sure they'll happen..

[KillMonger]

jesus man....we're so close to the seeing some magic basketball and instead of coming together......smh.....well what do i expect on a forum there will always be discussion.

[tiderulz]

Ok ill bite... obviously this is based on the information we currently have yadayada but i could envision us running a lineup with Mario at starting SF, AG at starting PF and Tobes off the bench. Would mean we have more shooting on the court, and also have a defensive minded PF in AG to play the Serge Ibaka role. Tobes would then bring versatility off the bench as the backup at SF/PF with AG being able to move around as well. I also think that the instant offense type guys which Tobes is works a lot better where they are given the freedom to be "the man" so to speak. So him working with the bench mob makes sense for me.

Also, a lineup consisting of Elf, Vic, Mario, and AG would be possibly the fastest, most athletic and best defensive team in the league.

Mad respect for that. I can appreciate your thoughts because at least you put it out there to converse about. I'm not about to bash it. Putting Harris on the bench is an interesting idea. I don't think he would handle taking it as a permanent place to be in, but we are paying him so he should do whatever he's told to. Iggy did that the last 2 years. You can tell he didn't love it, but he did it to help the team and he did get a big contract. The biggest difference though is Tobe is in his prime. Iggy is beyond that stage of his career.

The other point you made was saying we would have better shooting on the court, but I didn't think Tobe was a shooting liability. He shot really well last season and has been practicing 3s a lot according to what he said at media day. I don't know if Hezonja is going to produce significant increase in 3PT volume and percentage, but we shall see.

Tobias isn't the type of shooter that will run around screens. Mario will be able to fill that role. He'll give us much better off the ball movement. With Payton and Oladipo in the line up we already have 2 players that need the ball to be effective, and even Vucevic needs his touches in the post. Plus, teams would respect Mario's shot more than Tobias'. Mario can catch fire and hit 8 threes in one game. You won't want to leave him open. Also, ball movement and defense would be way better with Mario. Tobias' game is more suited to coming off the bench.

you dont know that. JV never really run any type of plays for him, so why do you think Harris wouldnt run around screens?

[tiderulz]

Ok ill bite... obviously this is based on the information we currently have yadayada but i could envision us running a lineup with Mario at starting SF, AG at starting PF and Tobes off the bench. Would mean we have more shooting on the court, and also have a defensive minded PF in AG to play the Serge Ibaka role. Tobes would then bring versatility off the bench as the backup at SF/PF with AG being able to move around as well. I also think that the instant offense type guys which Tobes is works a lot better where they are given the freedom to be "the man" so to speak. So him working with the bench mob makes sense for me.

Also, a lineup consisting of Elf, Vic, Mario, and AG would be possibly the fastest, most athletic and best defensive team in the league.

Mad respect for that. I can appreciate your thoughts because at least you put it out there to converse about. I'm not about to bash it. Putting Harris on the bench is an interesting idea. I don't think he would handle taking it as a permanent place to be in, but we are paying him so he should do whatever he's told to. Iggy did that the last 2 years. You can tell he didn't love it, but he did it to help the team and he did get a big contract. The biggest difference though is Tobe is in his prime. Iggy is beyond that stage of his career.

The other point you made was saying we would have better shooting on the court, but I didn't think Tobe was a shooting liability. He shot really well last season and has been practicing 3s a lot according to what he said at media day. I don't know if Hezonja is going to produce significant increase in 3PT volume and percentage, but we shall see.

I personally think Tobes would accept the bench role. And to be honest, a lot of genuine star guys play off the bench these days, its not as big of an issue as it used to be. As for Mario not being a significantly better 3pt shooter than Tobes, i would have to disagree. Ofcourse Mario hasnt even played a signle game yet, but still i think its fair to say Mario is a potential elite shooter. Not many people can go 8/8 from 3 in a single game, which he did last season at FC Barcelona. His release is faster, he is way more deadly off the dribble. Its really not close in my view. Mario could be high volume high percentage and his shooting a focal point of the offence, whereas Tobes is more the kinda guy who will knock them down when they come his way, but hes not going to shake someone down and pull up off the dribble.

i disagree. Tobes is in the prime of his career, and still looking at another high contract in 4 years. I do not think he would accept a bench role at all. Genuine star guys play off the bench these days? older, end of career ones. Look at HArden, ran from OKC to be a starter. McGrady was another. Bledsoe. Star players arent playing off the bench, they are starting.

And by your own words Mario hasnt played a single game but has "potential". But we dont know that he is a better shooter right now.

[Crabman]

Mad respect for that. I can appreciate your thoughts because at least you put it out there to converse about. I'm not about to bash it. Putting Harris on the bench is an interesting idea. I don't think he would handle taking it as a permanent place to be in, but we are paying him so he should do whatever he's told to. Iggy did that the last 2 years. You can tell he didn't love it, but he did it to help the team and he did get a big contract. The biggest difference though is Tobe is in his prime. Iggy is beyond that stage of his career.

The other point you made was saying we would have better shooting on the court, but I didn't think Tobe was a shooting liability. He shot really well last season and has been practicing 3s a lot according to what he said at media day. I don't know if Hezonja is going to produce significant increase in 3PT volume and percentage, but we shall see.

Tobias isn't the type of shooter that will run around screens. Mario will be able to fill that role. He'll give us much better off the ball movement. With Payton and Oladipo in the line up we already have 2 players that need the ball to be effective, and even Vucevic needs his touches in the post. Plus, teams would respect Mario's shot more than Tobias'. Mario can catch fire and hit 8 threes in one game. You won't want to leave him open. Also, ball movement and defense would be way better with Mario. Tobias' game is more suited to coming off the bench.

you dont know that. JV never really run any type of plays for him, so why do you think Harris wouldnt run around screens?

I don't know. I guess he could, but he's never going to be as good as Hezonja.

[tiderulz]

Tobias isn't the type of shooter that will run around screens. Mario will be able to fill that role. He'll give us much better off the ball movement. With Payton and Oladipo in the line up we already have 2 players that need the ball to be effective, and even Vucevic needs his touches in the post. Plus, teams would respect Mario's shot more than Tobias'. Mario can catch fire and hit 8 threes in one game. You won't want to leave him open. Also, ball movement and defense would be way better with Mario. Tobias' game is more suited to coming off the bench.

you dont know that. JV never really run any type of plays for him, so why do you think Harris wouldnt run around screens?

I don't know. I guess he could, but he's never going to be as good as Hezonja.

who has never played an NBA game. smdh

got the winning lottery numbers too? Wonder what they think now when people said about Kawhi, that he would never develop into a shooter.

[Crabman]

Mad respect for that. I can appreciate your thoughts because at least you put it out there to converse about. I'm not about to bash it. Putting Harris on the bench is an interesting idea. I don't think he would handle taking it as a permanent place to be in, but we are paying him so he should do whatever he's told to. Iggy did that the last 2 years. You can tell he didn't love it, but he did it to help the team and he did get a big contract. The biggest difference though is Tobe is in his prime. Iggy is beyond that stage of his career.

The other point you made was saying we would have better shooting on the court, but I didn't think Tobe was a shooting liability. He shot really well last season and has been practicing 3s a lot according to what he said at media day. I don't know if Hezonja is going to produce significant increase in 3PT volume and percentage, but we shall see.

I personally think Tobes would accept the bench role. And to be honest, a lot of genuine star guys play off the bench these days, its not as big of an issue as it used to be. As for Mario not being a significantly better 3pt shooter than Tobes, i would have to disagree. Ofcourse Mario hasnt even played a signle game yet, but still i think its fair to say Mario is a potential elite shooter. Not many people can go 8/8 from 3 in a single game, which he did last season at FC Barcelona. His release is faster, he is way more deadly off the dribble. Its really not close in my view. Mario could be high volume high percentage and his shooting a focal point of the offence, whereas Tobes is more the kinda guy who will knock them down when they come his way, but hes not going to shake someone down and pull up off the dribble.

i disagree. Tobes is in the prime of his career, and still looking at another high contract in 4 years. I do not think he would accept a bench role at all. Genuine star guys play off the bench these days? older, end of career ones. Look at HArden, ran from OKC to be a starter. McGrady was another. Bledsoe. Star players arent playing off the bench, they are starting.

And by your own words Mario hasnt played a single game but has "potential". But we dont know that he is a better shooter right now.

I don't remember Harden running from anyone. The Thunder traded him because they didn't want to pay him a max contract. The fact is our ball movement is terrible with Tobias and Oladipo on the floor. Tobias isn't competing with Hezonja. Hezonja is practically needed because of his shooting. We need a great 3 pt shooter in that lineup, and a player working off the ball. Tobias is more so competing with Oladipo for a starting spot is how I see it. If Gibonili can come off the bench, Harris better play along. If he doesn't trade his ass to set an example. He's not that special. He was a ways to go before he's a good fit as a starter.

[Crabman]

you dont know that. JV never really run any type of plays for him, so why do you think Harris wouldnt run around screens?

I don't know. I guess he could, but he's never going to be as good as Hezonja.

who has never played an NBA game. smdh

got the winning lottery numbers too? Wonder what they think now when people said about Kawhi, that he would never develop into a shooter.

You do know he played basketball before and there is footage of his play online. By your logic Winslow and Hezonja are equal shooters because they haven't played an NBA game yet?