Official Speculation Thread (2015-'16)

[tooler]

There are simple tradeoffs to hiring Skiles. No need to hate or mock. It's natural for everyone to want everything.

I just want to be entertained. The Skiles grind makes that challenging at times even in wins.

I'll let Hennigan handle everything else.

[KillMonger]

Send hezonja down to the d league?

[thelead]

So, Harris plays better at the SF spot... AG seems to be best at the SF spot... And Hezonja is looking like a SF as well.

Not sure what's going to happen there but I bet we don't keep all 3 for the long haul.

[T-DOT KEEZY]

There are simple tradeoffs to hiring Skiles. No need to hate or mock. It's natural for everyone to want everything.

I just want to be entertained. The Skiles grind makes that challenging at times even in wins.

I'll let Hennigan handle everything else.

Agreed. We are chock full of young studs. The NBA is entertainment first and foremost. I want to enjoy games and going to games. Winning helps but a game like tonight with energy and attacking the rim is fun whether we win or lose

[Landshark]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I don't expect us to be more than a first-round exit this year. Simply making the playoffs this season would be a huge step for this team, and it would exceed a lot of people's expectations. I'm worried that we're going to max out as a first or second round exit in the future.

I understand. Personally I dont think that happens.

Understandably people are eager for our prize draft picks to explode but I think that happends within the next couple of seasons. I don't think more game time in a structured offense really develops them beyond the system they're playing in. They hone their skill in the offseason.

My issue is none of our guys are showing obvious star potential the way KAT or Porzingis does. We don't know whether or not they can become stars, so we have to leave it all up to chance.

I really hope you're right. I don't care if our players explode in the next couple of seasons, as long as it actually happens eventually.

[MagicFan101]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I don't expect us to be more than a first-round exit this year. Simply making the playoffs this season would be a huge step for this team, and it would exceed a lot of people's expectations. I'm worried that we're going to max out as a first or second round exit in the future.

I'm with you on the concerns over maxing out as a first / second round team. This is why I argued with people who said we couldn't even discuss moving off from Harris and why I an joining in on similar talks begging about Fournier.

These guys aren't stars and never will be. We can't commit a ton of money to everyone just because they are solid contributors. Eventually we need to max out a true star.

I think a trade needs to happen soon. We might need to package a couple of these guys plus the LA pick, but we need a super star.

[Bensational]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

[Blue_and_Whte]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

:Lol: Really? Is that why people bitch about player X not getting minutes after a win? AN was balling out and people were complaining that AG didn't get those minutes.

Im not sure how running a couple plays for them accelerates their progress. For starters, it would probably be something that plays to their strengths, something they can already do.

Experience helps to a certain degree but I don't think their games develop by getting more minutes. It's going to happen in the offseason and they'll come back better players.

I think you're putting a wee to much into summer league.

[Bensational]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

:Lol: Really? Is that why people bitch about player X not getting minutes after a win? AN was balling out and people were complaining that AG didn't get those minutes.

Im not sure how running a couple plays for them accelerates their progress. For starters, it would probably be something that plays to their strengths, something they can already do.

Experience helps to a certain degree but I don't think their games develop by getting more minutes. It's going to happen in the offseason and they'll come back better players.

I think you're putting a wee to much into summer league.

I didn't say anything about AG and AN, so I can't speak for those people. I'm an AN fan, so I'm glad he's getting minutes and opportunity.

Experience accelerates their progress by getting them familiar with running plays from the crows nest. They get to see how the rest of the offense moves, from that position. AG sitting down on the low block waiting for a rebound limits his field of view and forces him to watch the ball for when shots go up. He's getting zero feel for the rest of the offense from down there.

Leaving Elf on an island in the corner whilst Oladipo ran plays did nothing to benefit Elf last season. What helped him was putting the ball in his hands and letting him get a feel for things. Getting a feel for how defenses were going to try and play him.

On court minutes is where all the work happens. Practice and offseason work is where they make big strides and add new tricks, but that doesn't mean a thing if the players aren't on the court and in a position to see how OPPOSING teams are going to respond to them, not coaches and trainers. It's the difference between a boxer training in a gym for a year vs a boxer who trained by having fights for a year. One will be match ready, one won't. Why do you think championship teams value veterans so much? Because they've had the minutes and time to learn the game on the court.

Lol. Putting too much into Summer League? The guy shows he can do much more than he's currently tasked with, but now somehow that doesn't count for some inexplicable reason? Riiiiight.

[KillMonger]

by the way happy thanksgiving guys, hope y'all have a good one with you and yours..........

[Jameerthefear]

They showed this on the Knicks broadcast. Jerian Grant and Oladipo went to the same school and Jerian was telling a story on how he and Dipo used to pick up girls by letting Dipo sing to them.

[Catledge]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

I respect what AG did in summer league more than a lot of people on the board seem to, but the underlined statement above is factually challenged.

Last year he played in half of our games and played 3 fewer minutes per game. This year, he is taking two more FGAs per game and has seen his usage jump from 15.5 to 19.3 despite having his FG% drop slightly from .447 to .439. One clear and specific change in his role is that he has a green light to take open 3s and attack his defender off the dribble.

And his minutes have trended upward across these first 15 games. After getting less than 20 minutes in three of the first 4 games, he has had 21+ minutes in 4 of the last 6.

So my answer to the question you pose is this: The fact that his role has grown steadily to reflect his steady improvement makes me believe that further improvement will open more opportunities.

I suspect that one of the big limitations on his minutes right now is that he still fouls a lot, 4.5 per 36. By comparison, Oladipo (our most aggressive defender) commits 2.2 fouls per 36 and only committed 3.0 per 36 as a rookie. Gordon's foul rate makes it very hard to leave him in the game when we are in the penalty.

[Magic_Kingdom]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

But he does have an increased role this season.

2014-15: 17.0 mpg, 4.4 FGA/game, 1.0 3PA/game, 1.3 FTA/game

2015-16: 19.9 mpg, 6.5 FGA/game, 1.4 3PA/game, 3.0 FTA/game

His minutes are only up 2.9 mpg from his rookie season, but it's still early and that number is bound to go up. Remember he missed all of training camp and most of the preseason, and when he finally came back he didn't look like the AG from summer league. He looked like rookie AG, a bit out of control and frenetic. He's still working his way back to where he was in summer league in terms of his offensive game.

Notwithstanding that, he's averaging 2.1 more shots per game this season, and 1.7 more free throw attempts per game -- more than double his rookie average. Considering the minutes are only up 2.9 mpg, that shows he absolutely has an increased role in the offense when he's in the game.

I think his minutes per game will continue to increase. Skiles is still trying to figure out rotations, and I think AG will improve as the season goes on, just like he did last year. I prefer these guys developing the right way, under a real coach and in real game situations where winning matters. Not just being gifted major minutes on a horrible team. He's genuinely improving right now.

[RickB-Orlando]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

But he does have an increased role this season.

2014-15: 17.0 mpg, 4.4 FGA/game, 1.0 3PA/game, 1.3 FTA/game

2015-16: 19.9 mpg, 6.5 FGA/game, 1.4 3PA/game, 3.0 FTA/game

His minutes are only up 2.9 mpg from his rookie season, but it's still early and that number is bound to go up. Remember he missed all of training camp and most of the preseason, and when he finally came back he didn't look like the AG from summer league. He looked like rookie AG, a bit out of control and frenetic. He's still working his way back to where he was in summer league in terms of his offensive game.

Notwithstanding that, he's averaging 2.1 more shots per game this season, and 1.7 more free throw attempts per game -- more than double his rookie average. Considering the minutes are only up 2.9 mpg, that shows he absolutely has an increased role in the offense when he's in the game.

I think his minutes per game will continue to increase. Skiles is still trying to figure out rotations, and I think AG will improve as the season goes on, just like he did last year. I prefer these guys developing the right way, under a real coach and in real game situations where winning matters. Not just being gifted major minutes on a horrible team. He's genuinely improving right now.

Stop trying to confuse people with facts. If people here say his role is diminished, why would we want to take factual statistics into consideration?

[Bensational]

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

But he does have an increased role this season.

2014-15: 17.0 mpg, 4.4 FGA/game, 1.0 3PA/game, 1.3 FTA/game

2015-16: 19.9 mpg, 6.5 FGA/game, 1.4 3PA/game, 3.0 FTA/game

His minutes are only up 2.9 mpg from his rookie season, but it's still early and that number is bound to go up. Remember he missed all of training camp and most of the preseason, and when he finally came back he didn't look like the AG from summer league. He looked like rookie AG, a bit out of control and frenetic. He's still working his way back to where he was in summer league in terms of his offensive game.

Notwithstanding that, he's averaging 2.1 more shots per game this season, and 1.7 more free throw attempts per game -- more than double his rookie average. Considering the minutes are only up 2.9 mpg, that shows he absolutely has an increased role in the offense when he's in the game.

I think his minutes per game will continue to increase. Skiles is still trying to figure out rotations, and I think AG will improve as the season goes on, just like he did last year. I prefer these guys developing the right way, under a real coach and in real game situations where winning matters. Not just being gifted major minutes on a horrible team. He's genuinely improving right now.

Stop trying to confuse people with facts. If people here say his role is diminished, why would we want to take factual statistics into consideration?

Jesus, what a pathetic increase in his role. you're right, he's got all the opprtunity he needs. i really don't understand why he's not setting the league on fire with his extra 2.9mpg...

do you think 2.9mpg is a satisfactory increase? for the guy who is the team's best defender? for a guy who showed a reliable confidence in his handles and jump shot during summer league?

his increase in FGAs probably have something to do with the fact that he's grabbing more offensive rebounds per game (more than double) and scoring more off put backs than he was last season.

if you want to discuss an increase in role, let's look at the difference between the amount of plays Fournier has the opportunity to create off the dribble this year compared to last year. i don't have numbers for it, but it has to be dramatically higher. THAT is the kind of increased role i'm talking about for Gordon. not telling him to go and grab the crumbs off other player's misses and to be content with that.

but hey, we can watch Wiggins, Giannis, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, Paul George and other prospects like that go ahead and flourish with big minutes and prominent scoring roles and wish we had one of our own... or we can just try out the one we've got?

[Bensational]

So basically people were pissed that we lost all the time, now theyre pissed that were winning to much. I thick we're right on track. If anyone expected us to be anything more than a first round exit at this point are probably disappointed. I want to see AG and Henzonja blow up as much as anyone else but I want to show progress even more.
Sorry. They'll have to develop in the offseason which is when players improve the most anyway.

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

I respect what AG did in summer league more than a lot of people on the board seem to, but the underlined statement above is factually challenged.

Last year he played in half of our games and played 3 fewer minutes per game. This year, he is taking two more FGAs per game and has seen his usage jump from 15.5 to 19.3 despite having his FG% drop slightly from .447 to .439. One clear and specific change in his role is that he has a green light to take open 3s and attack his defender off the dribble.

And his minutes have trended upward across these first 15 games. After getting less than 20 minutes in three of the first 4 games, he has had 21+ minutes in 4 of the last 6.

So my answer to the question you pose is this: The fact that his role has grown steadily to reflect his steady improvement makes me believe that further improvement will open more opportunities.

I suspect that one of the big limitations on his minutes right now is that he still fouls a lot, 4.5 per 36. By comparison, Oladipo (our most aggressive defender) commits 2.2 fouls per 36 and only committed 3.0 per 36 as a rookie. Gordon's foul rate makes it very hard to leave him in the game when we are in the penalty.

i can't buy into a scale that says Gordon's offseason improvement was only worth an extra 2.9mpg. i also can't buy into a heavily defense oriented team that refuses to put their best defender on the best opposing players - foul trouble or not. Fournier on LeBron and Durant? with Gordon sitting on the bench? Fournier probably isn't racking up fouls because he's not able to keep up with those guys. and i haven't actually seen Oladipo take on any major defensive assignments all season, he seems more like a floater, a perimeter version of what Dwight used to be for us.

as for Gordon's increased offensive role, i really haven't seen it. i think he had the same freedom to take wide open 3's as he's had this year, and i'd say he's taken players off the dribble the same amount of times on average. here's the real question - have we ever run a PnR for Gordon? Have we ever even set a screen for him?

[Catledge]

I can see why you disagree with a lot of people lately - because you can't read for ****.

Nobody said anything about "winning too much". Nobody said we'd be "more than a first round exit at this point". So you're kind of just shadow boxing with your own interpretations of concerns there.

AG and Hezonja still have plenty of room for growth, but having a few plays designed for them is going to speed the process up. Restricting AG to a garbage-guy role isn't developing him in any way, shape or form. We saw in summer league this year that AG had come back with a game that could take players off the dribble, pull up for jump shots and knock down some 3's and that hasn't resulted in any kind of increased role for him - what makes you think more improvement will open up more opportunities for him?

I respect what AG did in summer league more than a lot of people on the board seem to, but the underlined statement above is factually challenged.

Last year he played in half of our games and played 3 fewer minutes per game. This year, he is taking two more FGAs per game and has seen his usage jump from 15.5 to 19.3 despite having his FG% drop slightly from .447 to .439. One clear and specific change in his role is that he has a green light to take open 3s and attack his defender off the dribble.

And his minutes have trended upward across these first 15 games. After getting less than 20 minutes in three of the first 4 games, he has had 21+ minutes in 4 of the last 6.

So my answer to the question you pose is this: The fact that his role has grown steadily to reflect his steady improvement makes me believe that further improvement will open more opportunities.

I suspect that one of the big limitations on his minutes right now is that he still fouls a lot, 4.5 per 36. By comparison, Oladipo (our most aggressive defender) commits 2.2 fouls per 36 and only committed 3.0 per 36 as a rookie. Gordon's foul rate makes it very hard to leave him in the game when we are in the penalty.

i can't buy into a scale that says Gordon's offseason improvement was only worth an extra 2.9mpg. i also can't buy into a heavily defense oriented team that refuses to put their best defender on the best opposing players - foul trouble or not. Fournier on LeBron and Durant? with Gordon sitting on the bench? Fournier probably isn't racking up fouls because he's not able to keep up with those guys. and i haven't actually seen Oladipo take on any major defensive assignments all season, he seems more like a floater, a perimeter version of what Dwight used to be for us.

as for Gordon's increased offensive role, i really haven't seen it. i think he had the same freedom to take wide open 3's as he's had this year, and i'd say he's taken players off the dribble the same amount of times on average. here's the real question - have we ever run a PnR for Gordon? Have we ever even set a screen for him?

You can't buy into a scale that increases his minutes by 15% and his shot attempts by almost 50% through just 15 games? You would rather we went back to doing things like we used to, when we handed starting roles to backup quality players and just prayed that they would get better? All of those free minutes has Harkless posting a PER of 11.8 this season in Portland.

And we haven't called PnRs for anybody except Dipo all season. Any other PnR's we have run have been impromptu as part of the pass-and-cut offense, meaning that they weren't called by Skiles for any specific player.

[Bensational]

You can't buy into a scale that increases his minutes by 15% and his shot attempts by almost 50% through just 15 games? You would rather we went back to doing things like we used to, when we handed starting roles to backup quality players and just prayed that they would get better? All of those free minutes has Harkless posting a PER of 11.8 this season in Portland.

And we haven't called PnRs for anybody except Dipo all season. Any other PnR's we have run have been impromptu as part of the pass-and-cut offense, meaning that they weren't called by Skiles for any specific player.

Haha, nice use of %'s to make it sound more impressive. Any way you cut it, he's had a 3 minute increase and he's still playing under 20mpg in his second season. Look at the likes of Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Kawhi, Giannis, etc. They were all playing 25-30mpg+ by their 2nd season. They were all getting 10FGAs or more by their 3rd season. That's the kind of increased usage I'm looking for. We're like a season behind those guys.

As for PnRs, or PnPs, or even just setting a pick, even amongst ball movement and motion, they ALWAYS set those for Fournier or Oladipo. that's not a coincidence, that's by design. Gordon isn't the only one to be hit by this, Harris has only had 1 or 2 picks I think I can remember, and we've only just recently seen the team start setting more picks for Payton. Some scoring opportunities aren't as equal as others, and that's why Gordon's increase in FGAs (which is generally his own doing from his work on the offensive boards) doesn't mean anything to me.

[Jameerthefear]

Warriors could break our record for made 3s in a game. 15 at the half.

[tooler]

Warriors could break our record for made 3s in a game. 15 at the half.

Was just reading about this and saw Houston tied our record a couple years ago. Against Golden State.