The Payton Situation

[Bensational]

As dismissive as you've been about the notion of Payton possibly being benched, where's the Skiles quote saying "Oh yeah, starting PG spot is Payton's. No chance he'll lose it!"?

Def at least brought something that could potentially support his view. What are you bringing?

[ezzzp]

As dismissive as you've been about the notion of Payton possibly being benched, where's the Skiles quote saying "Oh yeah, starting PG spot is Payton's. No chance he'll lose it!"?

Def at least brought something that could potentially support his view. What are you bringing?

You want me to find some random clip of Marble at point in practice or scrimmage game and use that as "support" to spin a "situation" of how Marble might be the new starting point guard? because that's the type of support you are calling "bringing something."

You keep saying you think Payton will start and that you are his biggest fan, but then you keep replying for and hiding behind other peoples quotes as proxy to attack him. If you're going to keep dragging out this "bench Payton" argument, at least own up to it.

[Crabman]

Whether Payton and Oladipo both start or not, they're going to play at least 16 mpg together.

[Bensational]

As dismissive as you've been about the notion of Payton possibly being benched, where's the Skiles quote saying "Oh yeah, starting PG spot is Payton's. No chance he'll lose it!"?

Def at least brought something that could potentially support his view. What are you bringing?

You want me to find some random clip of Marble at point in practice or scrimmage game and use that as "support" to spin a "situation" of how Marble might be the new starting point guard? because that's the type of support you are calling "bringing something."

You keep saying you think Payton will start and that you are his biggest fan, but then you keep replying for and hiding behind other peoples quotes as proxy to attack him. If you're going to keep dragging out this "bench Payton" argument, at least own up to it.

LOL.

Nothing to own up to dude, Payton and AG are my guys, and I'd happily trade the rest of the team and just watch them play. (I'd probably keep Fournier, Hezonja and Nicholson, too.)

I'm just the kind of guy who doesn't mind playing devil's advocate. Part of the reason I enjoy discussions like this, is because I like to see who's got the chops to do their homework to back things up, and who's just riffing off their own opinion and passing that off as fact.

I'm not saying you don't have a point, I just think your tone is too dismissive for someone who's got even less to support their opinion than someone like Def. He's at least putting 2 and 2 together to form his idea, and you're spending your time trying to stomp the number 2's into the ground but not really bringing any other numbers to the table.

You're saying it's absurd to suggest Payton might not make the starting lineup because of the assumptions other people have put forth, but where's your concrete evidence that points to the contrary? Just answer this question directly: Do you have any proof that suggests Payton is a lock to be the starting PG on opening night of the regular season?

[ezzzp]

Just answer this question directly: Do you have any proof that suggests Payton is a lock to be the starting PG on opening night of the regular season?

just this:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOCn47rExEk[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynrqN9eDqz4[/youtube]

[Howard Mass]

I like Elfrid Payton but like with all players on rookie deals, I give them time to develop.

If Payton gets his shot down and keeps improving, he's going to be a solid starter.

One thing that is really going to help this year is the depth at point guard.

If Payton struggles, The Magic have two good backups in Watson and Napier to come in.

This will also put pressure on Payton and feel it will bring out the best in him.

[Crabman]

I want to see a line up of Payton/fournier/Mario/gordon/vucevic used often. This line up would have great ball movement, which is just as important as shooting. Two very good 3pt shooters, and hopefully Gordon is hitting an acceptable % as well. Payton plays well with Fournier and Gordon. Mario plays well with Gordon (they feed off each others energy too).

[tooler]

I know this thread kind of died (and maybe that's for the best) but I asked Kevin Pelton for his opinion on this situation today.

Tim (Florida)

Skiles has introduced a pass-heavy offense in Orlando, and he said Oladipo and Elfrid are still getting used to it. This sounds great for Oladipo, who pounds the hell out of the ball. But I'm worried it will minimize Elfrid's strengths and maximize his weaknesses. Does this change your projection for him?

Kevin Pelton (3:07 PM)

I haven't seen enough of the Magic in the preseason to really answer this question specifically, but in general I think it's possible for a point guard to make an impact on the ball even in a system that encourages ball movement: witness Tony Parker in San Antonio.

So you're saying we're the Spurs? Anyway, it's just one opinion, but it's good enough reason not to panic.

Bonus Elfrid question:

Candy (Slippery Rock)

Kevin, do you think Elfrid Payton's rookie year will be a good comp for what Mudiay will do this year?

Kevin Pelton (4:06 PM)

Hmm. I'd be surprised if Mudiay was as effective defensively but that's not a bad ballpark at the offensive end.

I expect Mudiay to put up far greater minutes and per-game stats than Elfrid though. Efficiency would depend on how well he finishes at the rim and in the paint, where Elfrid was pretty bad/average.

[ezzzp]

I know this thread kind of died (and maybe that's for the best) but I asked Kevin Pelton for his opinion on this situation today.

Tim (Florida)

Skiles has introduced a pass-heavy offense in Orlando, and he said Oladipo and Elfrid are still getting used to it. This sounds great for Oladipo, who pounds the hell out of the ball. But I'm worried it will minimize Elfrid's strengths and maximize his weaknesses. Does this change your projection for him?

Kevin Pelton (3:07 PM)

I haven't seen enough of the Magic in the preseason to really answer this question specifically, but in general I think it's possible for a point guard to make an impact on the ball even in a system that encourages ball movement: witness Tony Parker in San Antonio.

So you're saying we're the Spurs? Anyway, it's just one opinion, but it's good enough reason not to panic.

Bonus Elfrid question:

Candy (Slippery Rock)

Kevin, do you think Elfrid Payton's rookie year will be a good comp for what Mudiay will do this year?

Kevin Pelton (4:06 PM)

Hmm. I'd be surprised if Mudiay was as effective defensively but that's not a bad ballpark at the offensive end.

I expect Mudiay to put up far greater minutes and per-game stats than Elfrid though. Efficiency would depend on how well he finishes at the rim and in the paint, where Elfrid was pretty bad/average.

said that pages ago...and Skiles was asked something similar a couple days ago and he also reiterated same thing...let this thread die an inglorious death

[tooler]

said that pages ago...and Skiles was asked something similar a couple days ago and he also reiterated same thing...let this thread die an inglorious death

To be honest, I stopped reading it.

Sorry for the thread bump. Nothing to see here.

[Crabman]

We should trade him for Mason Plumlee.

[Orlwillbeback]

I looked at the numbers for pre season, mudiay is shooting 23% in pre season.

[JF5]

This conversation is dead... Neither Watson or Napier are even close to taking the Starting position away from him. From what I've seen during the preseason and the season prior, this team is clearly better with Payton on the court.

[drsd]

This conversation is dead... Neither Watson or Napier are even close to taking the Starting position away from him. From what I've seen during the preseason and the season prior, this team is clearly better with Payton on the court.

Respectfully, it is not dead. Excluding the reality that Payton might not start because of injury, he may not be ready for major because of the same. In this context Oladipo is the starting PG.

Oladipo/Fournier/Harris/Gordon/Vučević might be probable for the opening night starting five if Payton is not ready or capable in 4 days.

..

[Melvinlocker]

So I'm going to stir the pot a little bit just for the sake of conversation. Let's say it turns out we are able to acquire Darren Collison or George Hill in a trade. Are either of those guys worth dumping Payton. Both of them can hold their own defensively and can run an offense with minimal turnovers. They can hit threes at a solid clip and can draw and hit free throws at a solid rate.

Hill is in the middle of his prime at 29 and is probably the better player of the two, while Collison is younger at 28.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0DiIRGRCnU[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItOiGZ3M0zc[/youtube]

[fendilim]

Ok, is it just me or is it highly unusual to be resting Payton these past few games? i mean Vuc, Vic and Tobes has certainly
Played a lot more games than elf.

[KillMonger]

Ok, is it just me or is it highly unusual to be resting Payton these past few games? i mean Vuc, Vic and Tobes has certainly
Played a lot more games than elf.

not rest, hamstring

[ezzzp]

So I'm going to stir the pot a little bit just for the sake of conversation. Let's say it turns out we are able to acquire Darren Collison or George Hill in a trade. Are either of those guys worth dumping Payton. Both of them can hold their own defensively and can run an offense with minimal turnovers. They can hit threes at a solid clip and can draw and hit free throws at a solid rate.

Hill is in the middle of his prime at 29 and is probably the better player of the two, while Collison is younger at 28.

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0DiIRGRCnU[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItOiGZ3M0zc[/youtube]

Under what far fetched scenario does Indiana trade a key player - George Hill - who is only halfway thru a great value $8m per year deal? and what starter do you give up or combination of key bench players (of the +20 mpg type) do you give to Indiana?

George Hill probably costs the Magic Tobias Harris or Fournier + Dedmon at minimum for the conversation to start for Indiana. They are not going to trade their starting point guard on a killer contract for Andrew Nicholson and Jason Smith.

With Rondo on a 1 year deal, why would the Kings put themselves in a situation where they have zero point guards by trading away Collison? and again who are you trading for the Kings to do that?

[ezzzp]

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[Chi town]

Bulls would trade Taj and Kings pick for Payton.