ESPN 2016 Summer Forecast East Standings

[KingRobb02]

The only hope is that there's enough players who don't want to delay the money tree that will come with being a free agent in 2017.

But you can bet franchise tags, no max salaries, etc, are firmly on the table from the owner's perspective.

Best case scenario is that the season starts on time with free agency just before it begins but hopefully that changes over the season. I can't see it though.

No, max salaries is a player thing. They want this to basically be a free for all. No salary cap, no max contract. Just make me a good offer with no restrictions.

Franchise tag will never happen. It's stupid and unfairly restricts player movement.

The biggest thing will be the percentage of the pie. I'm betting the owners start at something ridiculous like 60%

The no max salaries is an owner thing as well. Small market owners see it as a scaled down version of the franchise tag as in you can offer your own player i.e. a player whose bird rights you have, an unlimited amount.

I'm not saying franchise tags will happen but after Durant, it will be part of the negotiation. I agree it's unfair and stupid to keep a player in a place they might not want to be but the Durant move changes everything. Remember the last CBA was supposed to help improve competitive balance. We're about to embark on the least competitive NBA season in history.

Well Riley brought this up last week when talking about wade. He had the idea that there would be one player who doesn't count against the cap, but that's still ridiculous. No one wants to admit that the last CBA is what made this Warriors team possible. The owners overreacted to the heat and the last CBA made it hard to keep teams together with bs like the repeater tax and shorter contracts. I don't understand how the NBA can "fix" the Warriors when they drafted 3 of their best guys and signed the 4th guy at a discount.

[RickB-Orlando]

This lockout is totally going to piss me off.

The only hope is that there's enough players who don't want to delay the money tree that will come with being a free agent in 2017.

But you can bet franchise tags, no max salaries, etc, are firmly on the table from the owner's perspective.

Best case scenario is that the season starts on time with free agency just before it begins but hopefully that changes over the season. I can't see it though.

No, max salaries is a player thing. They want this to basically be a free for all. No salary cap, no max contract. Just make me a good offer with no restrictions.

Franchise tag will never happen. It's stupid and unfairly restricts player movement.

The biggest thing will be the percentage of the pie. I'm betting the owners start at something ridiculous like 60%

Aren't they at 50/50 now? I can't imagine the owners going to 60.

I suspect what will be in play will be a hard cap. And personally I would love to see a franchise tag, but I doubt there's any way the players would let that happen.

The best hope to avoid a delayed season will be the mid-range players that just want to settle so they can get their piece of the salary cap pie. The top earners like LeBron and Chris Paul will try to get the union to hold out but I expect there to be a swell of players that want to sign and get their checks.

It's amazing when you think about it, but I would bet the vast majority of NBA players basically "live" paycheck to paycheck, in that they won't be able to maintain their lifestyle if there's a significant lockout.

[npiper17]

No, max salaries is a player thing. They want this to basically be a free for all. No salary cap, no max contract. Just make me a good offer with no restrictions.

Franchise tag will never happen. It's stupid and unfairly restricts player movement.

The biggest thing will be the percentage of the pie. I'm betting the owners start at something ridiculous like 60%

The no max salaries is an owner thing as well. Small market owners see it as a scaled down version of the franchise tag as in you can offer your own player i.e. a player whose bird rights you have, an unlimited amount.

I'm not saying franchise tags will happen but after Durant, it will be part of the negotiation. I agree it's unfair and stupid to keep a player in a place they might not want to be but the Durant move changes everything. Remember the last CBA was supposed to help improve competitive balance. We're about to embark on the least competitive NBA season in history.

Well Riley brought this up last week when talking about wade. He had the idea that there would be one player who doesn't count against the cap, but that's still ridiculous. No one wants to admit that the last CBA is what made this Warriors team possible. The owners overreacted to the heat and the last CBA made it hard to keep teams together with bs like the repeater tax and shorter contracts. I don't understand how the NBA can "fix" the Warriors when they drafted 3 of their best guys and signed the 4th guy at a discount.

No I agree that the Warriors in their current form weren't formed as a result of the CBA. Having the second best player in the league on the best contract because of previous injury problems combined with the hike in cap room was the reason.

What I'm saying is that doesn't actually matter. Most NBA teams, despite what a poster on here thinks, sell the potential for winning / making progress / hype their players to encourage fans to buy tickets. The Warriors as constructed now make it hard for an owner to sell this to even the casual NBA fan. Effectively 29 of 30 teams are not in the running to win the league (injuries accepted). So what this upcoming CBA negotiation does is give the owners a perfect chance to argue for some of the things they didn't get the last time round (and possibly some new things that weren't in the conversation the last time round) all under the guise that the primary aim of the last CBA failed completely.

[KingRobb02]

The only hope is that there's enough players who don't want to delay the money tree that will come with being a free agent in 2017.

But you can bet franchise tags, no max salaries, etc, are firmly on the table from the owner's perspective.

Best case scenario is that the season starts on time with free agency just before it begins but hopefully that changes over the season. I can't see it though.

No, max salaries is a player thing. They want this to basically be a free for all. No salary cap, no max contract. Just make me a good offer with no restrictions.

Franchise tag will never happen. It's stupid and unfairly restricts player movement.

The biggest thing will be the percentage of the pie. I'm betting the owners start at something ridiculous like 60%

Aren't they at 50/50 now? I can't imagine the owners going to 60.

I suspect what will be in play will be a hard cap. And personally I would love to see a franchise tag, but I doubt there's any way the players would let that happen.

The best hope to avoid a delayed season will be the mid-range players that just want to settle so they can get their piece of the salary cap pie. The top earners like LeBron and Chris Paul will try to get the union to hold out but I expect there to be a swell of players that want to sign and get their checks.

It's amazing when you think about it, but I would bet the vast majority of NBA players basically "live" paycheck to paycheck, in that they won't be able to maintain their lifestyle if there's a significant lockout.

Considering the players used to be at 57% before 2011 and the owners wanted to drop that to 47%, I still think they come out the gate demanding more.

Can you give a good argument for a hard cap or a franchise tag? Hard cap can't really happen because of the guaranteed deals. There has to be a lot of exceptions to keep teams viable after bad decisions. Franchise tag just leads to holdouts and anger from players who deserve their freedom.

As for the mid tier guys, the best part of last lockout was that the JR Smith level talents didn't wait for a resolution. They just went to China or some other market and got paid. For some of these guys being the best player on the Shanghai Sharks and making 7M is just as fun as playing for the mavericks on a mid level deal.

This isn't the NFL lockout. The NBA guys already have their contingencies set up so they can continue to get checks if this thing goes belly up.

[KingRobb02]

The no max salaries is an owner thing as well. Small market owners see it as a scaled down version of the franchise tag as in you can offer your own player i.e. a player whose bird rights you have, an unlimited amount.

I'm not saying franchise tags will happen but after Durant, it will be part of the negotiation. I agree it's unfair and stupid to keep a player in a place they might not want to be but the Durant move changes everything. Remember the last CBA was supposed to help improve competitive balance. We're about to embark on the least competitive NBA season in history.

Well Riley brought this up last week when talking about wade. He had the idea that there would be one player who doesn't count against the cap, but that's still ridiculous. No one wants to admit that the last CBA is what made this Warriors team possible. The owners overreacted to the heat and the last CBA made it hard to keep teams together with bs like the repeater tax and shorter contracts. I don't understand how the NBA can "fix" the Warriors when they drafted 3 of their best guys and signed the 4th guy at a discount.

No I agree that the Warriors in their current form weren't formed as a result of the CBA. Having the second best player in the league on the best contract because of previous injury problems combined with the hike in cap room was the reason.

What I'm saying is that doesn't actually matter. Most NBA teams, despite what a poster on here thinks, sell the potential for winning / making progress / hype their players to encourage fans to buy tickets. The Warriors as constructed now make it hard for an owner to sell this to even the casual NBA fan. Effectively 29 of 30 teams are not in the running to win the league (injuries accepted). So what this upcoming CBA negotiation does is give the owners a perfect chance to argue for some of the things they didn't get the last time round (and possibly some new things that weren't in the conversation the last time round) all under the guise that the primary aim of the last CBA failed completely.

I think we've been seeing a lot of overreaction to this superteam concept. Don't forget that the Lakers added a top 5 NBA player 2 years after they won a title and the NBA kept ticking just fine. Teams will still be able to sell tickets, it should be no worse than last year where we basically went in knowing GS and SA in the West and CLE in the East. The Warriors won't go 75-7 or anything crazy. This is just like JJ Redick said. The owners are just mad because they didn't create the superteam and the players did something they wanted to do. People can scream about parity and competitive balance all they want, but we all know that is ultimately boring. This time will be tough because Michele Roberts is actually competent and she has no back-down in her.

[npiper17]

Well Riley brought this up last week when talking about wade. He had the idea that there would be one player who doesn't count against the cap, but that's still ridiculous. No one wants to admit that the last CBA is what made this Warriors team possible. The owners overreacted to the heat and the last CBA made it hard to keep teams together with bs like the repeater tax and shorter contracts. I don't understand how the NBA can "fix" the Warriors when they drafted 3 of their best guys and signed the 4th guy at a discount.

No I agree that the Warriors in their current form weren't formed as a result of the CBA. Having the second best player in the league on the best contract because of previous injury problems combined with the hike in cap room was the reason.

What I'm saying is that doesn't actually matter. Most NBA teams, despite what a poster on here thinks, sell the potential for winning / making progress / hype their players to encourage fans to buy tickets. The Warriors as constructed now make it hard for an owner to sell this to even the casual NBA fan. Effectively 29 of 30 teams are not in the running to win the league (injuries accepted). So what this upcoming CBA negotiation does is give the owners a perfect chance to argue for some of the things they didn't get the last time round (and possibly some new things that weren't in the conversation the last time round) all under the guise that the primary aim of the last CBA failed completely.

I think we've been seeing a lot of overreaction to this superteam concept. Don't forget that the Lakers added a top 5 NBA player 2 years after they won a title and the NBA kept ticking just fine. Teams will still be able to sell tickets, it should be no worse than last year where we basically went in knowing GS and SA in the West and CLE in the East. The Warriors won't go 75-7 or anything crazy. This is just like JJ Redick said. The owners are just mad because they didn't create the superteam and the players did something they wanted to do. People can scream about parity and competitive balance all they want, but we all know that is ultimately boring. This time will be tough because Michele Roberts is actually competent and she has no back-down in her.

I don't disagree. As you say the superteam is nothing new and the NBA will be just fine.

My argument is that I don't think some of the owners will see it this way. I think the chances of a lockout have gone up since Durant's decision.

[KingRobb02]

No I agree that the Warriors in their current form weren't formed as a result of the CBA. Having the second best player in the league on the best contract because of previous injury problems combined with the hike in cap room was the reason.

What I'm saying is that doesn't actually matter. Most NBA teams, despite what a poster on here thinks, sell the potential for winning / making progress / hype their players to encourage fans to buy tickets. The Warriors as constructed now make it hard for an owner to sell this to even the casual NBA fan. Effectively 29 of 30 teams are not in the running to win the league (injuries accepted). So what this upcoming CBA negotiation does is give the owners a perfect chance to argue for some of the things they didn't get the last time round (and possibly some new things that weren't in the conversation the last time round) all under the guise that the primary aim of the last CBA failed completely.

I think we've been seeing a lot of overreaction to this superteam concept. Don't forget that the Lakers added a top 5 NBA player 2 years after they won a title and the NBA kept ticking just fine. Teams will still be able to sell tickets, it should be no worse than last year where we basically went in knowing GS and SA in the West and CLE in the East. The Warriors won't go 75-7 or anything crazy. This is just like JJ Redick said. The owners are just mad because they didn't create the superteam and the players did something they wanted to do. People can scream about parity and competitive balance all they want, but we all know that is ultimately boring. This time will be tough because Michele Roberts is actually competent and she has no back-down in her.

I don't disagree. As you say the superteam is nothing new and the NBA will be just fine.

My argument is that I don't think some of the owners will see it this way. I think the chances of a lockout have gone up since Durant's decision.

The lockout was guaranteed as soon as that media deal was agreed to. Eery percentage is hundreds of millions. If you ask Adam silver, there are a dozen teams losing money etc. We will never see real proof, but that will be the party line. Don't let these guys convince anyone that competition is a sticking point.

[EAS Law]

The problem with this assessment is that it completely lacks any sort of thought regarding our team's schedule and ability relative to the other teams. We will face Miami 3-4 times at least, which should help us a lot, Atlanta just lost one of their best players and will be starting Schroeder while also completely losing Teague--guess Dwight is best C in the league again or something... Charlotte was a playoff team, so alright, but we showed we could beat them and hang with them even last season, then Washington we lose every meeting just because...

The placement in the division will matter a ton. I can really see us being 2nd or possibly winning .

The South East had the most parity of all divisions last year; it had the worst winning team (Miami/Atlanta/Charlotte) and the best last-place team (Orlando). First to last was separated by only 13 games.

Atlanta had 48 wins last year. If healthy, this could be a donnas team in this division with perhaps 55 wins.
Charlotte has less depth (losing Lee and Lin is worse than it sounds), so a lower 45 wins is my starting point.
Washington, with the additions of Jason Smith and Andrew Nicholson, looks as mediocre as last year: 43 wins.
Miami had 48 wins last year. I project they will struggle to win 30 this year.

Last year the South East had 220 wins between the 5 teams, and the division seems about as strong as last year. So 220 - 55 - 46 - 43 - 30 = 46 wins for Our Orlando Magic.

This leads to my projection of:
Atlanta 55 wins
Orlando 46 wins
Charlotte 45 wins
Washington 43 wins
Miami 30 wins

..

I couldn't And1 this post any more than once, but I would if I could. Of course, these assessments are always going to be subjective and susceptible to variables, but I think 46 wins is very, very fair. Who knows-- maybe we get a surprise and our mid-season collapse was in fact intentional to get rid of Skiles and we emerge as a major problem in the East.

What I can't understand, is that we just got a 26 year old guy that, while not ever considered as impactful as KD or Westbrook, led a Thunder team with literally no one else remarkable, and has been widely regarded as one of the league's premier defenders, yet he comes to the Magic and he's now trash.

Of all teams in the NBA, the Magic may have made the most splash this offseason in a thoughtful, logical way, yet the narrative is "what the hell are they doing?"

We're getting better on defense... which is a major component to wining games... crazy thought.

[KingRobb02]

The problem with this assessment is that it completely lacks any sort of thought regarding our team's schedule and ability relative to the other teams. We will face Miami 3-4 times at least, which should help us a lot, Atlanta just lost one of their best players and will be starting Schroeder while also completely losing Teague--guess Dwight is best C in the league again or something... Charlotte was a playoff team, so alright, but we showed we could beat them and hang with them even last season, then Washington we lose every meeting just because...

The placement in the division will matter a ton. I can really see us being 2nd or possibly winning .

The South East had the most parity of all divisions last year; it had the worst winning team (Miami/Atlanta/Charlotte) and the best last-place team (Orlando). First to last was separated by only 13 games.

Atlanta had 48 wins last year. If healthy, this could be a donnas team in this division with perhaps 55 wins.
Charlotte has less depth (losing Lee and Lin is worse than it sounds), so a lower 45 wins is my starting point.
Washington, with the additions of Jason Smith and Andrew Nicholson, looks as mediocre as last year: 43 wins.
Miami had 48 wins last year. I project they will struggle to win 30 this year.

Last year the South East had 220 wins between the 5 teams, and the division seems about as strong as last year. So 220 - 55 - 46 - 43 - 30 = 46 wins for Our Orlando Magic.

This leads to my projection of:
Atlanta 55 wins
Orlando 46 wins
Charlotte 45 wins
Washington 43 wins
Miami 30 wins

..

I couldn't And1 this post any more than once, but I would if I could. Of course, these assessments are always going to be subjective and susceptible to variables, but I think 46 wins is very, very fair. Who knows-- maybe we get a surprise and our mid-season collapse was in fact intentional to get rid of Skiles and we emerge as a major problem in the East.

What I can't understand, is that we just got a 26 year old guy that, while not ever considered as impactful as KD or Westbrook, led a Thunder team with literally no one else remarkable, and has been widely regarded as one of the league's premier defenders, yet he comes to the Magic and he's now trash.

Of all teams in the NBA, the Magic may have made the most splash this offseason in a thoughtful, logical way, yet the narrative is "what the hell are they doing?"

We're getting better on defense... which is a major component to wining games... crazy thought.

Nah, he was considered trash last year. Go back and read all the stuff proclaiming Steven Adams as the third best guy on the team.

Ibaka has seen a statistical regression for the past two seasons, though his dissolving significance to the team hadn’t reached its nadir until the final three games of the Thunder’s second-round playoff matching against the Spurs last season, averaging 6.7 points in those games, and logging under 30 minutes in two of them. He had been overshadowed by the duo of Steven Adams and Enes Kanter, who unexpectedly beat the aging Spurs frontline senseless on the offensive glass. Ibaka, who had long been the crest of Oklahoma City’s defensive identity, saw that honor shift to Adams this season.

[EAS Law]

The South East had the most parity of all divisions last year; it had the worst winning team (Miami/Atlanta/Charlotte) and the best last-place team (Orlando). First to last was separated by only 13 games.

Atlanta had 48 wins last year. If healthy, this could be a donnas team in this division with perhaps 55 wins.
Charlotte has less depth (losing Lee and Lin is worse than it sounds), so a lower 45 wins is my starting point.
Washington, with the additions of Jason Smith and Andrew Nicholson, looks as mediocre as last year: 43 wins.
Miami had 48 wins last year. I project they will struggle to win 30 this year.

Last year the South East had 220 wins between the 5 teams, and the division seems about as strong as last year. So 220 - 55 - 46 - 43 - 30 = 46 wins for Our Orlando Magic.

This leads to my projection of:
Atlanta 55 wins
Orlando 46 wins
Charlotte 45 wins
Washington 43 wins
Miami 30 wins

..

I couldn't And1 this post any more than once, but I would if I could. Of course, these assessments are always going to be subjective and susceptible to variables, but I think 46 wins is very, very fair. Who knows-- maybe we get a surprise and our mid-season collapse was in fact intentional to get rid of Skiles and we emerge as a major problem in the East.

What I can't understand, is that we just got a 26 year old guy that, while not ever considered as impactful as KD or Westbrook, led a Thunder team with literally no one else remarkable, and has been widely regarded as one of the league's premier defenders, yet he comes to the Magic and he's now trash.

Of all teams in the NBA, the Magic may have made the most splash this offseason in a thoughtful, logical way, yet the narrative is "what the hell are they doing?"

We're getting better on defense... which is a major component to wining games... crazy thought.

Nah, he was considered trash last year. Go back and read all the stuff proclaiming Steven Adams as the third best guy on the team.

Ibaka has seen a statistical regression for the past two seasons, though his dissolving significance to the team hadn’t reached its nadir until the final three games of the Thunder’s second-round playoff matching against the Spurs last season, averaging 6.7 points in those games, and logging under 30 minutes in two of them. He had been overshadowed by the duo of Steven Adams and Enes Kanter, who unexpectedly beat the aging Spurs frontline senseless on the offensive glass. Ibaka, who had long been the crest of Oklahoma City’s defensive identity, saw that honor shift to Adams this season.

Better pack it in then and wait for the 2017 lottery...

[KingRobb02]

I couldn't And1 this post any more than once, but I would if I could. Of course, these assessments are always going to be subjective and susceptible to variables, but I think 46 wins is very, very fair. Who knows-- maybe we get a surprise and our mid-season collapse was in fact intentional to get rid of Skiles and we emerge as a major problem in the East.

What I can't understand, is that we just got a 26 year old guy that, while not ever considered as impactful as KD or Westbrook, led a Thunder team with literally no one else remarkable, and has been widely regarded as one of the league's premier defenders, yet he comes to the Magic and he's now trash.

Of all teams in the NBA, the Magic may have made the most splash this offseason in a thoughtful, logical way, yet the narrative is "what the hell are they doing?"

We're getting better on defense... which is a major component to wining games... crazy thought.

Nah, he was considered trash last year. Go back and read all the stuff proclaiming Steven Adams as the third best guy on the team.

Ibaka has seen a statistical regression for the past two seasons, though his dissolving significance to the team hadn’t reached its nadir until the final three games of the Thunder’s second-round playoff matching against the Spurs last season, averaging 6.7 points in those games, and logging under 30 minutes in two of them. He had been overshadowed by the duo of Steven Adams and Enes Kanter, who unexpectedly beat the aging Spurs frontline senseless on the offensive glass. Ibaka, who had long been the crest of Oklahoma City’s defensive identity, saw that honor shift to Adams this season.

Better pack it in then and wait for the 2017 lottery...

Just saying this isn't some anti-Magic bias. People have been calling Ibaka out for a while now.

[OrlChamps2030]

Yea Ibaka had a bit of a down year last year. I am hoping he bounces back. He is probably my second biggest wildcard behind the play of Elfrid Payton this coming season for a couple of reasons (contract situation mainly and if the regression was a one-off type of thing). Sometimes a change of scenery is just needed.

Honestly something that doesn't really get talked about anymore since the BB signing is that Ibaka may be best suited as a small ball C

[yoyojw17]

Nah, he was considered trash last year. Go back and read all the stuff proclaiming Steven Adams as the third best guy on the team.

Better pack it in then and wait for the 2017 lottery...

Just saying this isn't some anti-Magic bias. People have been calling Ibaka out for a while now.

Well... Ibaka was turned into a jump shooting pf....that was a third option on a team where the top players were taking 18 - 20 shots a night. There is only so much you can do as a scorer in that case. And at the same time....you add in a new physical center of course you are going to lose boards. Add that to a sf... that averages 8 reb a game and POINT GUARD that is shooting at averaging a triple double.... and yes... your rebounding numbers will digress as well. Even Adams digressed from last seasons stats... but "he's getting better"

IMO... we should wait to see what ibaka brings to the Orlando Magic Dinner table. Because you don't as to hop out the shadows of 2 top tier players in the league unless you have something to prove and can back it up.... unless you're Deandre Jordan. And i don't think he just means..."let me take more jump shots". Instead of dragging his name through the mud some more... let's see what this guy putting all of this offseason practice for. Many are worried about scoring... for me ... we have a better fitting team than last year and will also be reaping the benefits from their improvements.

[PennytoShaq]

Honestly something that doesn't really get talked about anymore since the BB signing is that Ibaka may be best suited as a small ball C

I argued for this since the day of the signing. I can still see it happening. Ibaka gets better on defense the closer he is to the rim.

[KingRobb02]

Better pack it in then and wait for the 2017 lottery...

Just saying this isn't some anti-Magic bias. People have been calling Ibaka out for a while now.

Well... Ibaka was turned into a jump shooting pf....that was a third option on a team where the top players were taking 18 - 20 shots a night. There is only so much you can do as a scorer in that case. And at the same time....you add in a new physical center of course you are going to lose boards. Add that to a sf... that averages 8 reb a game and POINT GUARD that is shooting at averaging a triple double.... and yes... your rebounding numbers will digress as well. Even Adams digressed from last seasons stats... but "he's getting better"

IMO... we should wait to see what ibaka brings to the Orlando Magic Dinner table. Because you don't as to hop out the shadows of 2 top tier players in the league unless you have something to prove and can back it up.... unless you're Deandre Jordan. And i don't think he just means..."let me take more jump shots". Instead of dragging his name through the mud some more... let's see what this guy putting all of this offseason practice for. Many are worried about scoring... for me ... we have a better fitting team than last year and will also be reaping the benefits from their improvements.

Well it's quietly been a down 2 years. He didn't even look good when KD was out in 2014-15. That's why I'm not super psyched about him being a second option for this team. And for your reply that guys stole his rebounds, that is kind of the excuse Roy Hibbert used to give in Indiana when Lance was a triple double machine and PG was KD-lite. He got to LA and the problem didn't really fix itself.

[yoyojw17]

Just saying this isn't some anti-Magic bias. People have been calling Ibaka out for a while now.

Well... Ibaka was turned into a jump shooting pf....that was a third option on a team where the top players were taking 18 - 20 shots a night. There is only so much you can do as a scorer in that case. And at the same time....you add in a new physical center of course you are going to lose boards. Add that to a sf... that averages 8 reb a game and POINT GUARD that is shooting at averaging a triple double.... and yes... your rebounding numbers will digress as well. Even Adams digressed from last seasons stats... but "he's getting better"

IMO... we should wait to see what ibaka brings to the Orlando Magic Dinner table. Because you don't as to hop out the shadows of 2 top tier players in the league unless you have something to prove and can back it up.... unless you're Deandre Jordan. And i don't think he just means..."let me take more jump shots". Instead of dragging his name through the mud some more... let's see what this guy putting all of this offseason practice for. Many are worried about scoring... for me ... we have a better fitting team than last year and will also be reaping the benefits from their improvements.

Well it's quietly been a down 2 years. He didn't even look good when KD was out in 2014-15. That's why I'm not super psyched about him being a second option for this team. And for your reply that guys stole his rebounds, that is kind of the excuse Roy Hibbert used to give in Indiana when Lance was a triple double machine and PG was KD-lite. He got to LA and the problem didn't really fix itself.

well.... he was close to 9 rebounds a game.....a couple years ago... you add in steven adams.... you add in KD and Russell averaging nearly 8 rebounds a game.... yeah... there aren't as many rebounds to go around. Does suck that he averages less than both of them. haha

That being said.... there is no reason harp about our new player until we see what he's going to do. Is he going to have a hibbert regression... or did we just acquire an allstar that was hiding in the shadows of two superstars. We don't know. I guess i'm just focusing on the glass being half full.... with the knowledge that "sh!^ happens" so i never get as let down as much as others.

[KingRobb02]

Well... Ibaka was turned into a jump shooting pf....that was a third option on a team where the top players were taking 18 - 20 shots a night. There is only so much you can do as a scorer in that case. And at the same time....you add in a new physical center of course you are going to lose boards. Add that to a sf... that averages 8 reb a game and POINT GUARD that is shooting at averaging a triple double.... and yes... your rebounding numbers will digress as well. Even Adams digressed from last seasons stats... but "he's getting better"

IMO... we should wait to see what ibaka brings to the Orlando Magic Dinner table. Because you don't as to hop out the shadows of 2 top tier players in the league unless you have something to prove and can back it up.... unless you're Deandre Jordan. And i don't think he just means..."let me take more jump shots". Instead of dragging his name through the mud some more... let's see what this guy putting all of this offseason practice for. Many are worried about scoring... for me ... we have a better fitting team than last year and will also be reaping the benefits from their improvements.

Well it's quietly been a down 2 years. He didn't even look good when KD was out in 2014-15. That's why I'm not super psyched about him being a second option for this team. And for your reply that guys stole his rebounds, that is kind of the excuse Roy Hibbert used to give in Indiana when Lance was a triple double machine and PG was KD-lite. He got to LA and the problem didn't really fix itself.

well.... he was close to 9 rebounds a game.....a couple years ago... you add in steven adams.... you add in KD and Russell averaging nearly 8 rebounds a game.... yeah... there aren't as many rebounds to go around. Does suck that he averages less than both of them. haha

That being said.... there is no reason harp about our new player until we see what he's going to do. Is he going to have a hibbert regression... or did we just acquire an allstar that was hiding in the shadows of two superstars. We don't know. I guess i'm just focusing on the glass being half full.... with the knowledge that "sh!^ happens" so i never get as let down as much as others.

I honestly don't really judge him based on rebounds. I was just tired of the people around here acting offended that anyone would question our offseason. We didn't acquire a savior. We got a guy who can hopefully provide more relative value than Victor would have with the hopes that he doesn't leave after the season.

Edit: I hadn't really checked, but basically all his per48 numbers have dipped in the past 2 seasons (Pts, Reb, Blk) and his shooting percentages, points per shot, and FTA also got worse each year.

[wise1-2]

Keep in mind they predicted 30 wins last year, and the Magic won 35. They could've won 38-40 games if not for some late game lapses and just plain bad luck. This year they have them at 35 wins, but I'm predicting 40-45. We need to make the play offs. I believe in the defense we're building. I think everyone is going to look better on dfense. A backup like Biyombo makes vucevic so much easier to hide defensively. Ibaka definitely helps too. I feel like Vogel is going to play his cards well. I think Gordon will take a significant jump. 14-8-3 with elite defense from him next season IMO. Offensively I don't see us being worse than last year.

[Howard Mass]

Remember back in 2009 when no one thought The Magic would get to The Finals?

After The Magic make the playoffs this year, we can look back at this.

I do not give a damn what an expert says. There is a reason why they play the games.

[KingRobb02]

Remember back in 2009 when no one thought The Magic would get to The Finals?

After The Magic make the playoffs this year, we can look back at this.

I do not give a damn what an expert says. There is a reason why they play the games.

Yeah... a well timed injury can really change the playoffs.