Opening Night 16-17: Heat @ Magic (Game 1)

[Bensational]

No we don't.

You're the only one still saying this for some reason...

Nice liberal spin job by the way. Standard tactics in an attempt to create a lie about someone.

I was referring to this particular game. Bismack doesn't win the game for us when the problem was scoring and perimeter defense. Here is what I actually said:

We need biz

No we don't. We need someone to stop Justice Winslow out on the perimeter.

Sent from my D6708 using RealGM mobile app

Winslow was penetrating, making plays, and hitting the glass and nobody was stopping him. While we definitely missed him in certain aspects of the game, he wouldn't have made a bit of difference with our stagnant offense or poor perimeter defense.

I don't need to defense myself, least of all from you but for the record I do not believe that we don't need Bismack at all.

Miami scores 74 points in the paint against us and our best interior defender "wouldn't have made a bit of difference"?

His recovery speed is far superior to Vuc's, that the lack of help D wouldn't have killed us so many times with Whiteside.

And you know he wouldn't have stood by and watched Miami perform a layup drill the way Ibaka was tonight. And he's a hustler on the boards, so our rebounding wouldn't have been so weak.

Not to mention that it would've been nice to have had a player under the rim for hand offs and offensive put backs for some of the game tonight. Vuc and Ibaka both drifted away from the paint.

He would have helped tonight. There is zero logical reason to think otherwise.

[fendilim]

Btw Embiid is looking like the process was worth it. They need to bring back Hinkie.

Right? I'm failing to see what that team has done since replacing him that is so impressive. Gerald Henderson? Lol.

The reason that team has hope right now is because of Embiid and Simmons, both are Hinkie's work. That guy got screwed over.

Just like I think RH will if ownership doesn't see improvement soon. For a rebuilding team, our draft luck has been atrocious. We have missed out on all star caliber player by one spot for years. Imagine our lineup if we had Embiid or Porzingis.

Well, to be honest, management and ownership has played a role in this.

Heck, if management wanted a full blown rebuild, they would have told Rob to go Sixers' style rebuild.

[The Other Ankle]

Since when is losing by 12, getting blown out?? You act like we lost by 30.

Seriously? We got obliterated. The score makes it seem better than it was. After halftime we played terrible ball. Hassan Whiteside made Ibaka & Vuc look like Jason Smith & Andrew Nicholson

I think their guards obliterated us by getting into the lane. Nik and Ibaka were constantly having to help and nobody rotated to get Miami's centers leaving them open especially Whiteside.

Their scrub back-up center benefitted as well. It was way more about the guards doing damage than Whiteside being special in this one.

[yoyojw17]

Well... the team may not be in top form at this early point of the season, but this forum sure is.

For real thooooooooo! Lol.

All the short fused comments are sucking any possible enjoyment out of the season and We've ONLY PLAYED 48 min.

Imma take a short hiatus and let the board cool down.... because it seems like any *voice of reason* is probably currently unwarranted. haha

[Optimus_Steel]

We dont have the talent to overcome our many weaknesses. Thus this is not a playoff team. This team has to play hard all the time and have good chemistry just to have a shot at the playoffs. We dont play hard enough to overcome the issues and we dont have good intangibles. Biyombo will help but he is wont solve our other problems.

[Bergmaniac]

Biyombo will help defensively, when the rotations are as bad as they were yesterday no single player can make that much of a difference on the defensive end if the other team is playing smart. Someone has to rotate over when the centre comes out to challenge a shot and we really sucked at this yesterday.

[PrimeThyme]

Well... the team may not be in top form at this early point of the season, but this forum sure is.

For real thooooooooo! Lol.

All the short fused comments are sucking any possible enjoyment out of the season and We've ONLY PLAYED 48 min.

Imma take a short hiatus and let the board cool down.... because it seems like any *voice of reason* is probably currently unwarranted. haha

Yeah so am I. A lot of this board packed it in for the draft after the preseason. Now it's just worse. I saw things that encouraged me the other night. I think we will bounce back against Detroit.

[The Other Ankle]

The game turned when Waiters started burning our perimeter defense and running into our poor interior defense, and on the other end when we were penetrating and running into Whiteside. That was really the difference. It's not like we weren't getting inside also. They had Whiteside and we didn't. Payton did about as well as you could ask defending an NBA PG in this league with these rules and Frank seemed to agree in the post game. I don't expect good interior D from Vuc, but Ibaka cannot play that way again. He looked like a different player from pre-season Ibaka.

I'm genuinely puzzled by how Waiters & Winslow in particular were so effective driving. The book on both of these guys is to let them shoot by backing off. Winslow in particular has awful percentages, and yet we allowed him to create very effectively by penetrating. It was more understandable when it was Dragic or TylerJ driving, because they need to be crowded more.

[Def Swami]

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA
Oof...Magic defense was a mess last night, including (most troubling) Ibaka. Heat play so damn hard.

Really scary that Vogel had an entire preseason and training camp and they came out looking that bad on defense. Ibaka was really bad, but he's a veteran and you'd think he'd pick up on simple pick n' roll rotation and coverage. They have to watch the tape and make the adjustments. Not sure how much of this is missteps by Vogel or everyone just being distraught or lazy.

Said this last week when we got stomped in Miami in the preseason, but it's hard to see much change in a week when there are certain fundamental flaws that I don't see coaching fixing. And we're playing another very similar team in Detroit tomorrow. Hard to expect much difference besides that much welcome addition of Biyombo, but it's on both the coaches and players to figure this out.

[MagicStarwipe]

The game turned when Waiters started burning our perimeter defense and running into our poor interior defense, and on the other end when we were penetrating and running into Whiteside. That was really the difference. It's not like we weren't getting inside also. They had Whiteside and we didn't. Payton did about as well as you could ask defending an NBA PG in this league with these rules and Frank seemed to agree in the post game. I don't expect good interior D from Vuc, but Ibaka cannot play that way again. He looked like a different player from pre-season Ibaka.

I'm genuinely puzzled by how Waiters & Winslow in particular were so effective driving. The book on both of these guys is to let them shoot by backing off. Winslow in particular has awful percentages, and yet we allowed him to create very effectively by penetrating. It was more understandable when it was Dragic or TylerJ driving, because they need to be crowded more.

Well you could say the same for Elfrid, but he always seems to find a way into the paint. I thought outside of Evan and Green our perimeter defense was pretty good (particularly Elfrid and AG). It's just hard to keep NBA guys out of the the lane all game long. That's why rim protectors are a premium. We need to get our coverages and rotations sorted and just flat out show more effort. We also need Biyombo.

[NEM]

Hennigan = Organic guy

He's clueless as to how to build an NBA team. I think he thinks you can just throw any combination of players together and it'll work. 4 years we had no rim protection and decent ability to score. To fix that, he gets rid of the two guys that scored for us (Tobias/oladipo) and brings in two rim protectors. Now, I think I've made it clear I'm not an oladipo fan by any stretch of the imagination, but if you were gonna go after Biz regardless, why trade oladipo for ibaka? Why not piece that package together for a more efficient wing scorer? It's almost as if he overcompensated for 4 years worth of no rim protection at the expense of having the ability to score

#FireHennigan
#BringBackOtis

Holy hell,the Rob Hennigan hate is strong in this one. Yeah because you can do a better job right? What is it that you do again? That's right, clearly you are a GM of a sports team because you whine and complain on RealGM and think that you can run and build a professional sports team.

*Edited out by Mod - Language*

So it's Rob's fault we have had bad luck in the draft recently? It's Rob's fault that David Stern/David Silver gifted the Cavs three number 1 overall picks after Lebron left them for Miami? It's Rob's fault that the Lakers were gifted two top 2 picks in Kobe's final two seasons? It's Rob's fault that we didn't get jack squat after losing a 3 time NBA DPOY in Dwight Howard?
It's so obvious that you can do a better job than Rob Hennigan right? I highly doubt that you could do half as good as he has.



The only thing that I would have done differently, that Rob didn't do, is I would have kept Jacque Vaughn for the rest of that season and told him to drive the tank full steam into the ground to ensure we got the #1 pick and KAT.

I think I hit a nerve with Rob Hennigan himself... it figures that you'd continue to support the losing mentality that hennigan has instilled in this franchise, seeing as you're one yourself. Also, this is a discussion board so I'm allowed my opinion (crazy concept for you to grasp, I know).

As far as me being a better GM than Hennigan, well I haven't given too much thought to that. I mean I have contemplated on how one applies for a front office position with an NBA franchise, but I haven't actually looked into it, maybe you can help me with that one Rob.

Also, keeping Vaughn around for the tank that year would have definitely landed us the 1st pick in the draft and gotten us KAT, because that's how the lottery works. Every year this NBA commissioner goes down the list of teams that missed the playoffs and ranks the coaches from dumbest to smartest. Dumbest coach gets the first pick, or something along those lines.

Let throw some facts at you to show you as to what Hennigan has done to a once respected franchise.

Magic before Hennigan (23 years):
14 playoff appearances
8 coaches (not including Donovan because that's a joke)
959-878 (0.522) or an average of 43-39 roughly

Magic with Hennigan (4+ years):
0 playoff appearances
4 coaches
103-226 (0.313) or and average of 26-56 roughly
1,062-1,104 (0.490) or an average of 40-42

The man singlehandedly dropped our average win total for the EXISTENCE OF THE FRANCHISE by 3 wins... we are talking over 2,000 games worth... 20+ years worth. He took us from above .500 to below .500 by HIMSELF yet smart people like yourself continue to defend the WORST GM in our teams history... the WORST, and it's not even close...

[JAY DASH]

The Ibaka you saw last night was the Ibaka OKC saw last season. He'll do fine against teams that don't have a dominant big man/physical frontline, but he'll struggle to get rebounds against those that do. All he wants to do is stand outside and shoot jumpers. I didn't expect anything different from him on that front. What was disappointing was how the Heat had no fear of going right through him to get to the rim. He's a good weakside shot blocker. Not a great leaper in traffic or if he's defending the shooter.

Not much else to talk about with this game. Elf looked good in the 1st half. Aaron did as good as you can expect a PF to do playing out of position. Vuc was Vuc. Evan was Evan offensively. This is just who we are. A team full of decent players in a league where stars matter. Will be happy to get Biz back but IDK if him cutting into Vuc's minutes make us much better. Cutting into Serge's minutes....yes definitely.

[MagicFan101]

I haven't seen the first game yet so while I have many thoughts based purely on the box score, I have chosen to bite my tounge for now with regards to the explosion of knee jerk emotion in this thread.

But are people really calling for Otis Smith to come back? Are you #*%*%ing kidding me?

WE WERE TANKING!!!!

This is the first year under Hennigan that we have gone out with the plan of actually trying to win. You guys (possibly not plural) get that right? We have only had one game with a big change in the lineup and the coaching philosophy and our top free agent out. How about we let this evolve a bit before going crazy?

[Nemesis21]

I haven't seen the first game yet so while I have many thoughts based purely on the box score, I have chosen to bite my tounge for now with regards to the explosion of knee jerk emotion in this thread.

But are people really calling for Otis Smith to come back? Are you #*%*%ing kidding me?

WE WERE TANKING!!!!

This is the first year under Hennigan that we have gone out with the plan of actually trying to win. You guys (possibly not plural) get that right? We have only had one game with a big change in the lineup and the coaching philosophy and our top free agent out. How about we let this evolve a bit before going crazy?

[Mc-o]

Lol this board is hilarious !!!

[MagicFan101]

Well... the team may not be in top form at this early point of the season, but this forum sure is.

This might be the greatest post I have seen in years. Mighty well done sir.

[3ddman23]

He's clueless as to how to build an NBA team. I think he thinks you can just throw any combination of players together and it'll work. 4 years we had no rim protection and decent ability to score. To fix that, he gets rid of the two guys that scored for us (Tobias/oladipo) and brings in two rim protectors. Now, I think I've made it clear I'm not an oladipo fan by any stretch of the imagination, but if you were gonna go after Biz regardless, why trade oladipo for ibaka? Why not piece that package together for a more efficient wing scorer? It's almost as if he overcompensated for 4 years worth of no rim protection at the expense of having the ability to score

#FireHennigan
#BringBackOtis

Holy hell,the Rob Hennigan hate is strong in this one. Yeah because you can do a better job right? What is it that you do again? That's right, clearly you are a GM of a sports team because you whine and complain on RealGM and think that you can run and build a professional sports team.

*Edited out by Mod - Language*

So it's Rob's fault we have had bad luck in the draft recently? It's Rob's fault that David Stern/David Silver gifted the Cavs three number 1 overall picks after Lebron left them for Miami? It's Rob's fault that the Lakers were gifted two top 2 picks in Kobe's final two seasons? It's Rob's fault that we didn't get jack squat after losing a 3 time NBA DPOY in Dwight Howard?
It's so obvious that you can do a better job than Rob Hennigan right? I highly doubt that you could do half as good as he has.



The only thing that I would have done differently, that Rob didn't do, is I would have kept Jacque Vaughn for the rest of that season and told him to drive the tank full steam into the ground to ensure we got the #1 pick and KAT.

I think I hit a nerve with Rob Hennigan himself... it figures that you'd continue to support the losing mentality that hennigan has instilled in this franchise, seeing as you're one yourself. Also, this is a discussion board so I'm allowed my opinion (crazy concept for you to grasp, I know).

As far as me being a better GM than Hennigan, well I haven't given too much thought to that. I mean I have contemplated on how one applies for a front office position with an NBA franchise, but I haven't actually looked into it, maybe you can help me with that one Rob.

Also, keeping Vaughn around for the tank that year would have definitely landed us the 1st pick in the draft and gotten us KAT, because that's how the lottery works. Every year this NBA commissioner goes down the list of teams that missed the playoffs and ranks the coaches from dumbest to smartest. Dumbest coach gets the first pick, or something along those lines.

Let throw some facts at you to show you as to what Hennigan has done to a once respected franchise.

Magic before Hennigan (23 years):
14 playoff appearances
8 coaches (not including Donovan because that's a joke)
959-878 (0.522) or an average of 43-39 roughly

Magic with Hennigan (4+ years):
0 playoff appearances
4 coaches
103-226 (0.313) or and average of 26-56 roughly
1,062-1,104 (0.490) or an average of 40-42

The man singlehandedly dropped our average win total for the EXISTENCE OF THE FRANCHISE by 3 wins... we are talking over 2,000 games worth... 20+ years worth. He took us from above .500 to below .500 by HIMSELF yet smart people like yourself continue to defend the WORST GM in our teams history... the WORST, and it's not even close...

While I do think it's a little harsh how nem is putting it all on henny. I gotta kinda agree with him.. this team has become a completely forgotten team amongst the nba. Nobody cares or talks about the magic outside of orlando, hell even within orlando a vast majority of people don't care about the team. Henny and company have really taken a toll on us as fans and the image of this team. The magic (aside from their first couple of years) were always known as a competitive team that didn't really ever go on these long draughts of being bottom feeders. It's a shame to see this team take such a long time to be competitive while hurting the image of the team locally and nationally. And honestly I don't see it getting better any time soon. That's why I said we are slowly turning into the Sacramento Kings of the east. I don't know what can fix this team unless we go through another absolute top to bottom rebuild again.

[djhunkyherbs]

I would urge people to be a bit more patient with this team...

We knew (or should have known) that it would take some time for these guys to gel. We were missing Biz, Ibaka spent much of the game out of position, and I think Gordon is still getting his feet under him because of the ankle injury. Not trying to make excuses, but I think if anyone was expecting this team to dominate right away that they were probably setting themselves up for disappointment.

Obviously there were some concerning things last night, but I actually think there were quite a few positives to be taken away from the game as well. Elfrid looked aggressive and was excellent in the first half, and he hit all eight of his free throws. If he can continue to shoot well from the line, I think that will help this team tremendously going forward. I thought Gordon looked pretty good, and him hitting both of his attempted threes bodes well for the team in the future. He should only keep getting better as an all-around player. The guys who were disappointing (Ibaka, Fournier, Green) are proven players or are guys who we know are streaky players. I would honestly rather have seen those guys struggle than our young players like Gordon or Payton, because we can be reasonably optimistic that our vets will turn it around.

The most alarming stat of the game was clearly the points allowed in the paint. But Biz coming back should absolutely help that, and I honestly think (or at least hope) that his presence will have an effect on other guys as well, allowing our guards to defend their men more closely, not requiring Serge to play backup minutes at the 5, etc.

Basically, I don't think it's time to panic yet. Give these guys some time to get used to each other and to adapt to Vogel's system, and I think that they will be fine. I know four years of losing has been painful and that people expecting things to turn around quickly might have been disappointed by last night's outcome, but these things take time. Let's have some patience with this team before we lose our minds over one game.

[PennytoShaq]

I haven't seen the first game yet so while I have many thoughts based purely on the box score, I have chosen to bite my tounge for now with regards to the explosion of knee jerk emotion in this thread.

But are people really calling for Otis Smith to come back? Are you #*%*%ing kidding me?

WE WERE TANKING!!!!

This is the first year under Hennigan that we have gone out with the plan of actually trying to win. You guys (possibly not plural) get that right? We have only had one game with a big change in the lineup and the coaching philosophy and our top free agent out. How about we let this evolve a bit before going crazy?

The anti Rob guys who post his record just show they have no clue.

Anyone who was a fan when he took over knew we were going to suck for at least 3-4 years. It was basically spoken by them and reported the same by everyone in the media.

That being said, I understand why people are frustrated after this game. It was unacceptable.

[OrlandoDream]

If you guys want to see meltdown go to the official magic page Facebook comments. It's award winning stuff.