Magic(4-6) @ Pacers(4-6)

[JAY DASH]

Whatever we do, be it make a run at 8th seed or tank, Mario needs to go to the D-league so he can get some playing time. This is just shameful how he get nothing right now.

I actually think a few D-League games would do Mario some good. Not a bad idea at all. Didn't expect us to win this one after the effort they played with against OKC. I don't know what it is about road back to backs but it definitely affects most players these days. You'd think they had to ride their bikes from OKC to Indiana or something.

[JAY DASH]

We're sitting at 41% fg as a team on the season... I think there's only been a worse percentage once in the past 15 years and that was the tanking sixers with a bunch of d-leaguers at 40.8%. This can't possibly continue...

Basketball pundits before the season: This Magic team is interesting, but I'm not sure how they'll score.

Magic Fans: Shut up!

(Season starts and we struggle to score)

Magic Fans: Well that's just bad luck. I mean, the shots aren't going in!

Except these guys aren't this bad. If they are then Vogel is doing something very wrong to get the worst our of them.

Yes these guys are. Outside of Vooch nobody on this team has been close to averaging 20 a night...and this season he's in a timeshare situation at Center (Biz was much better than him last night fwiw). So where is consistent offense supposed to come from? It's a poorly constructed roster offensively. We're asking everyone to be more than they truly are offensively. That may work every now and then, but against solid defensive units we will most likely struggle.

We'd be much better even if we just had an Isaiah Thomas/Kemba Walker type on the roster that could carry the load when other guys aren't able to get it going. You almost have to have at least one guy that has a true scorer's mentality and we don't at the moment.

[OrlandO]

Basketball pundits before the season: This Magic team is interesting, but I'm not sure how they'll score.

Magic Fans: Shut up!

(Season starts and we struggle to score)

Magic Fans: Well that's just bad luck. I mean, the shots aren't going in!

Except these guys aren't this bad. If they are then Vogel is doing something very wrong to get the worst our of them.

Yes these guys are. Outside of Vooch nobody on this team has been close to averaging 20 a night...and this season he's in a timeshare situation at Center (Biz was much better than him last night fwiw). So where is consistent offense supposed to come from? It's a poorly constructed roster offensively. We're asking everyone to be more than they truly are offensively. That may work every now and then, but against solid defensive units we will most likely struggle.

We'd be much better even if we just had an Isaiah Thomas/Kemba Walker type on the roster that could carry the load when other guys aren't able to get it going. You almost have to have at least one guy that has a true scorer's mentality and we don't at the moment.

We might be bad, but there's no way we're worst offense in last 15 years bad. Things have to balance out eventually. Vuc and Biyombo are not suddenly 42-43% fg players...

[sportsrock37]

The effort level has been the most frustrating thing for me in the early season, which is why the last 2 days was a positive to me. I thought we played very high energy today(obviously we did yesterday), shots just didn't fall.

I agree with the energy part, though that doesn't seem nearly enough to compensate for the lack of offense.

To comment on your earlier post about Hennigan not making any panic trades, I think that's because he hasn't faced the pressure of his job in the past. Otis never made any rash decisions until his job was on the line. All of the contracts he gave out were lined up to expire at the same time as Dwight so we could have the most capspace available and re-up. Then Dwight wanted to bitch. Otis figured it was his last chance to make Dwight happy, and went and made the trades he did.

My point is, when it comes down to it, he may very well make a bad trade that'll cost us the few assets we have left.

How is 69 points not reality? It happened last night. I don't think I ever have seen a team consistently under 70 going into the fourth. Look at our roster,spacing, fg %, etc. 69 points is exactly the reality of this team.

We're last in PPG. This is no fluke, this is reality. This is the team Rob has built.

69 points is not reality. If we hold teams to 88 points, we will be right in the game and more than likely win a lot of them.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using RealGM mobile app

We aren't going to score 69 points often. (shouldn't happen at all- hopefully just this once) If we play the defense that we did last night, we will win a lot of games. It took literally every player other than Biz not being able to make a shot for us to get to 69. That's not going to happen often and that is not the reality of this team.

We'll be towards the bottom in offense for sure that part is reality. Even after the 2 awful games, this team is avg 92 ppg and that is inexcusable to be that low.

[JAY DASH]

Except these guys aren't this bad. If they are then Vogel is doing something very wrong to get the worst our of them.

Yes these guys are. Outside of Vooch nobody on this team has been close to averaging 20 a night...and this season he's in a timeshare situation at Center (Biz was much better than him last night fwiw). So where is consistent offense supposed to come from? It's a poorly constructed roster offensively. We're asking everyone to be more than they truly are offensively. That may work every now and then, but against solid defensive units we will most likely struggle.

We'd be much better even if we just had an Isaiah Thomas/Kemba Walker type on the roster that could carry the load when other guys aren't able to get it going. You almost have to have at least one guy that has a true scorer's mentality and we don't at the moment.

We might be bad, but there's no way we're worst offense in last 15 years bad. Things have to balance out eventually. Vuc and Biyombo are not suddenly 42-43% fg players...

Vuc no....Biz....if he's not dunking the basketball....yes. I can't really come up with many rosters worse than this one in terms of scoring. Other than those teams that were intentionally tanking that is.

[rcklsscognition]

Vogel post game: "Vuc and Fournier need to bring pride to their individual offense. The entire team needs to bring pride to their individual performances on offense."

One second they say we need team work, the next second need individual pride. This is a desperate coach searching for options. I saw Skiles in this state of mind way too much last season not to be worried by this because we know what it led to.

[Bergmaniac]

It is not like we played great defense last night IMO. Indiana missed a lot of open looks. They shot 24% on their 27 open shots (closest defender being 4-6 Feet away), way below their average. The defense wasn't bad overall, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't great enough to win games regularly when you are one of the worst offensive teams in the league. Most of the time a decent offensive team will score more than 88 points if we defend this way.

[OrlandoNed]

It is not like we played great defense last night IMO. Indiana missed a lot of open looks. They shot 24% on their 27 open shots (closest defender being 4-6 Feet away), way below their average. The defense wasn't bad overall, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't great enough to win games regularly when you are one of the worst offensive teams in the league. Most of the time a decent offensive team will score more than 88 points if we defend this way.

Yeah Indy had a lot of wide open misses. The final score would of been a lot more embarrassing if they hit at their average wide open shooting percentages.

[sportsrock37]

It is not like we played great defense last night IMO. Indiana missed a lot of open looks. They shot 24% on their 27 open shots (closest defender being 4-6 Feet away), way below their average. The defense wasn't bad overall, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't great enough to win games regularly when you are one of the worst offensive teams in the league. Most of the time a decent offensive team will score more than 88 points if we defend this way.

Pacers entered the game avg 108 ppg and were a top 5-10 offense in the NBA. We held them to 20 points below their average. Let's not pretend they are the Jazz or anything. They got open looks sure, but those are going to come regardless. We played hard on the defensive side of the ball. If we hold teams to 88 points we will win a lot of games.

Our defense provided offense except the fact that we have to be the worst fast break team in the NBA. How many 2 on 1's did we blow yesterday? At least 5 or 6.

[NEM]

Maybe not top 5, but other than Orton, all were drafted in first 22 picks. Hunter and Gaines in top 15.

I know, but there are different expectations based on where players are drafted. A guy drafted 5th has the expectation of being able to carry more of a burden vs a guy drafted 15th or 22nd. 5th is supposed to be on if the main parts of your core. I think that's his argument at least.

Valid point. Who knows what happened to Mario between last season and this one. Did not playing much for Croatia during the summer, kill his confidence? He looks like a deer in headlights out there.

He looks scared. Idk if he scared to make a mistake and get yanked or what, but he looks scared. He has the tools to be good but he lacks the confidence, which ironically, scouts said was one of his main attributes. I haven't seen it thus far.

If this season is gonna be a waste, which it looks like it will be, we need to run Payton, Hezonja, and Gordon as much as possible. Players need to be allowed to make mistakes without the fear of getting pulled. Also, if we do go that route, vuc, Ibaka, and biyombo all need to go. Evan too. See what kind of young players/picks you can get for them and send them packing.

[NEM]

Boston could use Ibaka.
Portland and Houston could use vuc and biyombo.
Memphis/Atlanta/Philadelphia could use Fournier

[OrlandoNed]

I know, but there are different expectations based on where players are drafted. A guy drafted 5th has the expectation of being able to carry more of a burden vs a guy drafted 15th or 22nd. 5th is supposed to be on if the main parts of your core. I think that's his argument at least.

Valid point. Who knows what happened to Mario between last season and this one. Did not playing much for Croatia during the summer, kill his confidence? He looks like a deer in headlights out there.

He looks scared. Idk if he scared to make a mistake and get yanked or what, but he looks scared. He has the tools to be good but he lacks the confidence, which ironically, scouts said was one of his main attributes. I haven't seen it thus far.

If this season is gonna be a waste, which it looks like it will be, we need to run Payton, Hezonja, and Gordon as much as possible. Players need to be allowed to make mistakes without the fear of getting pulled. Also, if we do go that route, vuc, Ibaka, and biyombo all need to go. Evan too. See what kind of young players/picks you can get for them and send them packing.

I only partly agree with you on what the team should do if we blow it up. I think Biyombo is worth keeping for his rebounding and defense. He's young enough to stay on board for another rebuild. We need more guys like him who give a ton of energy, effort, hustle and physicality.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Hezonja and Vucevic will not be a part of this team by all star break and will be surprised if Elfrid is with how he's been playing (selling high).

[Skin]

Fool's Gold shot 1-10 on FGs and 0 FTAs.

[MagicFan101]

Boston could use Ibaka.
Portland and Houston could use vuc and biyombo.
Memphis/Atlanta/Philadelphia could use Fournier

What does Boston have that we would want besides Jaylen Brown and draft picks? They are rumored to be dangling these for bigger fish like Cousins or even Anthony Davis. So again, besides those what do they have that we would want?

Portland is even more to this case. Obviously we would want Lillian or McCollum but they are off the table. Nothing else on that roster is worth a move.

Houston likes their big man duo of Anderson and Capela. They would only trade for Vuc in an exchange of backups. KJ McDaniels and Sam Decker for Vuc? I'm not sure this gets either team excited. You're just making a deal to make a deal and that rarely works out well.

As much as people hate of Fournier (not saying he doesn't deserve some of it), he is one of the few guys we can count on to hit shots. So if you are going to toss his name out there then we need to get a scoring option back.

Philly can't give us that.

Memphis could offer a Chandler Parsons swap. I'm not a Parsons fan but it would be worth debating.

Atlanta would surely demand we take back Kyle Korver. No thanks.

...

Anyways, in only one of your scenarios is there an option worth discussing. This GM thing you are so hard on Henny about isn't as simple as waving your hand. You have to give us a better effort than this or people are just going to tune out your never ending bitching and moaning.

[Def Swami]

I see your point, but to be fair, none of those guys were picked as high as Mario.

I think Mario has talent and possibly given the opportunities that some other players have had he might succeed. On the other hand he doesn't really seem to have a motor. I can see both sides of the argument.

Maybe not top 5, but other than Orton, all were drafted in first 22 picks. Hunter and Gaines in top 15.

I know, but there are different expectations based on where players are drafted. A guy drafted 5th has the expectation of being able to carry more of a burden vs a guy drafted 15th or 22nd. 5th is supposed to be on if the main parts of your core. I think that's his argument at least.

You can't brick the 5th pick is my point. The fact that Hezonja is in that class of players right now speaks for itself.

[Xatticus]

Whilst I agree that we won't be anywhere near as good as hoped...I don't think we're going to be as bad as last night often or be a "27 win team" like I read above.

We are now 4-7. Going into the game the Pacers were, like us, 4-6; after many were calling them a potential top 3 seed this year in the East. Yeah. The season (and players) still has/have to shake out its/their wings before we really know where we stand and what potential moves need to be made. The guys have had a new coach almost every year recently. Let them grab 25-30, even 40 games to grasp, understand and mould into their new coaches vision and system. They are young. This takes longer than a team of vets. Eventually, some will stay, some will move. We're only 10 games in.

Well... we are on a pace to win 30 games right now, but we have played like a 15-win team. I don't think 27 wins is the most pessimistic perspective. That said, all we can do is wait it out and see how much improvement we show. We're 29th in offensive efficiency and 28th in defensive efficiency. Surely we won't end up ranked so low in both categories.

[NEM]

Boston could use Ibaka.
Portland and Houston could use vuc and biyombo.
Memphis/Atlanta/Philadelphia could use Fournier

What does Boston have that we would want besides Jaylen Brown and draft picks? They are rumored to be dangling these for bigger fish like Cousins or even Anthony Davis. So again, besides those what do they have that we would want?

Portland is even more to this case. Obviously we would want Lillian or McCollum but they are off the table. Nothing else on that roster is worth a move.

Houston likes their big man duo of Anderson and Capela. They would only trade for Vuc in an exchange of backups. KJ McDaniels and Sam Decker for Vuc? I'm not sure this gets either team excited. You're just making a deal to make a deal and that rarely works out well.

As much as people hate of Fournier (not saying he doesn't deserve some of it), he is one of the few guys we can count on to hit shots. So if you are going to toss his name out there then we need to get a scoring option back.

Philly can't give us that.

Memphis could offer a Chandler Parsons swap. I'm not a Parsons fan but it would be worth debating.

Atlanta would surely demand we take back Kyle Korver. No thanks.

...

Anyways, in only one of your scenarios is there an option worth discussing. This GM thing you are so hard on Henny about isn't as simple as waving your hand. You have to give us a better effort than this or people are just going to tune out your never ending bitching and moaning.

First off, nowhere on here have I bitched or moaned.

Secondly, I suggested teams who could use these players. I never said it had to be a 2 team trade. Use your imagination.

To Portland:
Vucevic

To phx:
Hezonja
Portland first rounder

To orlando:
Brandon knight
2nd round pick
-----------------------------
To Boston:
Ibaka

To orlando:
Smart
Johnson
------------------------------
To Philadelphia:
Fournier
Payton

To orlando:
okafor
Covington


I'm not saying these teams would do this or that we would consider it, but it's worth kicking the tires...

Smart/augustin/Watson
Knight/Meeks
Covington/green
Gordon/Johnson/Zimmerman/rudez
Okafor/biyombo/onuaku

[Cammo101]

I'd love to see us make a run at Okafor.

[Def Swami]

I'd love to see us make a run at Okafor.

Same here. I know a lot will point at his defensive short-comings, but I think he has higher upside than Vucevic as a scorer and if we can get him at low value right now, I'd pounce. Just another asset in the chest.