Early season player grades?

[CZ Eddie]

This forum usually has an early season player-grades thread after a certain amount of games, like 20-30.
Me being a Magic fan who has transplanted to another state and never gets to see the games, I've been waiting for such a thread and am a little surprised it hasn't been done yet?

[Viper1500]

Fournier = A-
Ibaka = A-
Gordon = C
Vucevic = B-
Payton = C
Augstin = B
Byiombo = B-
Green = B-
Hezonja = D

[drsd]

Fournier = A-
Ibaka = A-
Gordon = C
Vucevic = B-
Payton = C
Augstin = B
Byiombo = B-
Green = B-
Hezonja = D

For a losing team, I made a grade average closer to C.



Fournier = C+ (has not dominated)
Ibaka = B+ (Orlando's best player by a long ways)
Gordon = C (weak first 2/3 and only recently had some OK games)
Vučević = B (Good not great)
Payton = C+ (OK but not anywhere near fan expectation)
Augustin = B (Amazing fill in)
Biyombo = C (lack of offense makes me wonder how he can start)
Green = D (awful 2/3 in the season, but recent performance takes above an F)
Hezonja = F (stinky smelly bad)


+ (and)
Meeks = B- (key player in the last 6 games but injuries equate to a negative grade)
Onuaku = F (has done nothing for the team)
Zimmerman = D- (has made D-league highlights is not helpful for the Magic overall)
Wilcox = F (irrelevant player)
Watson = F- (why is he a Magician???)


..
Rudež

[j-ragg]

For the rotation players...

Point guards

Payton B
Augustin B
Watson C-

Payton has been good in terms of getting to the hoop and converting, he has regressed in terms of 3 point shooting and free throws. I don't care about 3s but I'd like him to be able to get to the line and convert. Augustin has been okay. A back up asked to start, not doing awful. Watson sucks.

Shooting guards
Fournier B
Meeks B+
Mario D

Fournier has been good but still stinks defensively and makes so many little unnecessary mistakes. Also he still has tunnel vision to the point people on the court have to say things to him. Meeks has been really good shooting and playing the passing lanes. Great back up minutes.

Small forwards
Gordon B
Green C-

Gordon started out shooting pretty well. Then started stinking. Now is getting better again. Expected some issues shooting, but would like his defense to tighten up a little. Only because we all know he is capable of it. Green has been better lately but we all know who Jeff Green is by now. Talented but has never helped a team become better.

Power forward
Ibaka A-

Serge has been what we needed. Blocked a ton of shots and shot he always from deep really well. Hope Rob can re-sign him.

Centers
Bismack C+
Been a bit of a disappointment. Defense isn't what it was last year. Rebounding definitely isn't. Some of it is getting acclimated to the system but for now he hasn't brought to the table what I thought he would. Or at least not quite as well.

Vucevic B
Vuc has been better on defense this season. Not great but he jumps and moves his hands. Sad that it took 4 coaches for him to start doing that but I'll take it. His offense hasn't been very efficient but that's him in a nutshell. Glad he's taking more threes.

[Max Power]

It's really hard to grade these guys, especially only after a month and a half. There are no A's on this team in my eye.

Evan Fournier- B. Evan has been the exact same player he's been since last season. Good, but not great. I think Evan is about to pique as a player. He'd be the 3rd guy on a contending team in my eyes.

Nik Vucevic - B-. Still arguably our best player, but his offense is off course. He's bounced back on the boards this season and his defense is improved. Needs to get his offense touch back.

Aaron Gordon: C. Has had flashes of what he can be. Offensive consistency is still a big issue.

Elfrid Payton: B+. I've been a Payton detractor for a while, but his improvements are definitely there. Better defender, and decision maker, playmaking is definitely improved also. Scoring ability is also improved to where he can leave his mark on the scoreboard too.

Serge Ibaka: B-. Serge needs to be more. He's giving the Magic exactly what he gave OKC. 15 and 7. He's Horace Grant lite if he doesn't grab an opportunity to be more here.

Bizmack Biyombo: C. Better than I expected. Good defender and rebounder. If he gives you 8 points it's a bonus. Still not worth 70 million. He gets an A for a first name though.

DJ Augustine: C. Doing what Augustine does. I'd like to see him do more since he's starting, but he's a good, solid pg.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[KingRobb02]

MVP: Elfrid
LVP: Hezonja

Better than expected (A): Meeks

Above Average (B): Vucevic, Biyombo, Payton

Average (C): Watson

What happened to you? (C-): Gordon, Ibaka

About as mediocre as expected (D): Fournier, Rudez

Need to upgrade if possible (D-): Augustin

Lighting our money on fire (F): Green, Hezonja

Incomplete: Onuaku, Wilcox, Zimmerman

That's about a D+ average...

We're good on small stuff like blocks, fouls, and turnovers. We struggle with scoring. Overall we should probably be at around 10 wins, but we snuck out a couple easy ones to get us to 12.

[Veyron]

MVP: Elfrid
LVP: Hezonja

Better than expected (A): Meeks

Above Average (B): Vucevic, Biyombo, Payton

Average (C): Watson

What happened to you? (C-): Gordon, Ibaka

About as mediocre as expected (D): Fournier, Rudez

Need to upgrade if possible (D-): Augustin

Lighting our money on fire (F): Green, Hezonja

Incomplete: Onuaku, Wilcox, Zimmerman

That's about a D+ average...

We're good on small stuff like blocks, fouls, and turnovers. We struggle with scoring. Overall we should probably be at around 10 wins, but we snuck out a couple easy ones to get us to 12.

Lol

Meeks is awful, terrible. Dunno what ur watching. Just useless.

[pepe1991]

Payton C+ ( show some flashes, still not starting level PG)
Watson F ( nothing )
Augustin C ( should never ever start )

Evan Fournier B- ( expended his ppg, however his defense fall off cliff )
Hezonja D- ( little chance to do anything, did little when he got chance )
Meeks C- ( 2 good 8 horrific games ,hit or miss player that misses more )
Jeff Green F- ( most worthless player compared to salary , one of worst singings in NBA)
Gordon C ( can't fit role, can't play position he is asked to play)

Vučević D+ ( second worst year in his career, no other way around it )
Biyombo C- to D, one of worst singings this year , literally one of worst deals in NBA given lenght

Vogel D+ , he should be culture changer, there is no evidence that anything is different , let alone better than Skiles days. Matter of fact Skiles was better 30 games into a Magic coaching role.
Others.Nobody worth grading.

I have hard times understanding so many positive grades on team that sits on 12-17 record having so much luck with injuries of opponents and riding second easiest schedule .

[KingRobb02]

Lol

Meeks is awful, terrible. Dunno what ur watching. Just useless.

I'm watching the guy I expected 0 from lead the team in TS%. Sure it's all garbage, but what did you think we were getting?

[pepe1991]

Lol

Meeks is awful, terrible. Dunno what ur watching. Just useless.

I'm watching the guy I expected 0 from lead the team in TS%. Sure it's all garbage, but what did you think we were getting?

His TS% is 0,4% above league average, and all his "postive "stats come grand total of 2 great games , that are circled around 8 awful games. If you isolate his 8 bad games you get 24% FG , 20% three point shooter who once every 5 games gets hot for 3 and makes 3 to 4 of them.

His FG% right now is 37%. That's everything but good. His TS% is inflated by 2 hot games where he was 8 of 11 for 3, however good games both times were followed up with few games where he can't hit water from a boat.

He is 29 , it's hard to justify that level of inconstancy at that stage of his career. It's same thing that makes Jeff Green THAT bad. You simply can't rely on his production. One game he will get you great offense ,next 5 he will shoot you out of game. Than he pops up again playing great. Good teams avoid that type of gunners.

[Mc-o]

Payton C+ ( show some flashes, still not starting level PG)
Watson F ( nothing )
Augustin C ( should never ever start )

Evan Fournier B- ( expended his ppg, however his defense fall off cliff )
Hezonja D- ( little chance to do anything, did little when he got chance )
Meeks C- ( 2 good 8 horrific games ,hit or miss player that misses more )
Jeff Green F- ( most worthless player compared to salary , one of worst singings in NBA)
Gordon C ( can't fit role, can't play position he is asked to play)

Vučević D+ ( second worst year in his career, no other way around it )
Biyombo C- to D, one of worst singings this year , literally one of worst deals in NBA given lenght

Vogel D+ , he should be culture changer, there is no evidence that anything is different , let alone better than Skiles days. Matter of fact Skiles was better 30 games into a Magic coaching role.
Others.Nobody worth grading.

I have hard times understanding so many positive grades on team that sits on 12-17 record having so much luck with injuries of opponents and riding second easiest schedule .

i Agree , Im upset that management didnt let the team try one more time with vogel and dipo . Skiles had a better record with a less experienced team and he atleast had AG playing his natural position and mario was showing progress. but he definitely seemed like an a hole lol he also quit on the team. I think vogel is in a tougher position because of all the major changes but this next offseason will be huge for our future so much can change.

[orlando1214]

Payton - C : Elfrid has been up and down this year, which is disappointing. We've seen flashes yet again of what he is capable of but he just cannot do it consistently once again. This has once again led to his benching, which is unacceptable imo. If you look at his stats from each game this season, they are all over the place. He can be special like he was in the ATL game, but other times he looks terrible, unable to shoot or control the pace of the offense, and it's so frustrating to see. I like Elf, I really do, but it's time to stop putting all our hope into him as the PG of the future. Doesn't mean he has to go, but the Magic can't keep starting mediocre PG over him in hopes that one day he figures it out.

Fournier - B : Evan has been solid enough. He's often the leading scorer, and that's what he's paid to do. The rest of his game does leave a lot to be desired though. Basically we have gotten the Evan I expected, but maybe not the Evan I hoped for.

AG - B- : Aaron is my favorite player on this team and I want so badly for him to break out and become a star. Unfortunately, once again it seems to be small improvements in his game this year over the leap that we all wanted so badly for him. He's still a solid player who works extremely hard, especially defensively. He's shooting a little bit better, which is nice to see, but his free throw shooting is worse which drives me insane. Aaron will always be a good solid player, but unfortunately this team is desperate for him to become a star and it's just not happening yet. The Magic would be stupid to give up on him though, he should be the only untouchable player in trades.

Ibaka - B : Ibaka has settled into a nice grove and has been pretty much the definition of solid. He's pretty dependable on both ends which is nice to see. The problem is with Ibaka, same with Evan, they are both looked at to be the guy but they are both probably better suited for a 2nd fiddle roll.

Vuc - B : Vuc has been pretty much exactly the same player we have had the past few years. Lately he's been playing much better defense which has been great to see. I like the move of him off the bench, which has brought some balance to the lineups. His days might be numbered here in Orlando though, which I have mixed feelings about. I've liked Vuc more than others on here over the past few years, and if he does get moved I will miss him.

Biyombo - B- : It's hard not to love Biz. He works his butt off each and every night, which you really can't say about anybody else on the team except for probably AG. He's been good defensively and great on the boards. He sets fantastic picks as well. His offensive game is terrible though, and unfortunately due to how this team is built, that has been an issue.

Augustine - B : DJ has been perfectly fine. The problem is, he should not be starting but is forced to because of Elf. He would be great in the role of a back up Point Guard, which is what he is supposed to be, but he's needed to be more which he really isn't.

Green - D- : Outside of a few games, Green usually does more bad than good. His effort leaves a lot to be desired and he's probably one of worst defensive players I have ever seen. He can be good offensively when he looks like he cares, but that usually isnt the case either.

Mario - F---- : I hate Mario. I am sick of him and I want him gone. Dude is such a disappointment and such a waste of a high draft pick. He is a shooter that can't shoot anymore. His dribble and defense is still terrible and his attitude seems bad as well. I've done long rants about him before so I'm not going to get more into it, but yeah, he sucks. We need the player we hoped Mario would be so badly, but instead we got a sulky bench warmer.

Meeks - C+ : He was injured for a lot of the season so far, but has been pretty decent since coming back. He's had a few bad games as well but so has everyone else.

All the other players really hasn't played enough to be graded.

Vogel : C+ : He's been given a weird team to coach. He's done well with some like Vuc, but hasn't made the impact I was hoping he would on some of the guys like AG. He needs a lot more time and I still fully believe he's the right man for the job. I don't like how he's relied on Green so much. That's probably my biggest issue with him. I have zero issue with the amount of playing time he's given Mario though, because I put that on Mario. There is more to it than Vogel just wants to play vets to try to win. Vogel talked a lot about him throughout the offseason and it very much looked Mario was going to be a big part of main rotation with how much he played in the preseason and early on. I really believe this is just Mario earning the amount of minutes he's been receiving and nothing more.

[pepe1991]

Payton - C : Elfrid has been up and down this year, which is disappointing. We've seen flashes yet again of what he is capable of but he just cannot do it consistently once again. This has once again led to his benching, which is unacceptable imo. If you look at his stats from each game this season, they are all over the place. He can be special like he was in the ATL game, but other times he looks terrible, unable to shoot or control the pace of the offense, and it's so frustrating to see. I like Elf, I really do, but it's time to stop putting all our hope into him as the PG of the future. Doesn't mean he has to go, but the Magic can't keep starting mediocre PG over him in hopes that one day he figures it out.

Fournier - B : Evan has been solid enough. He's often the leading scorer, and that's what he's paid to do. The rest of his game does leave a lot to be desired though. Basically we have gotten the Evan I expected, but maybe not the Evan I hoped for.

AG - B- : Aaron is my favorite player on this team and I want so badly for him to break out and become a star. Unfortunately, once again it seems to be small improvements in his game this year over the leap that we all wanted so badly for him. He's still a solid player who works extremely hard, especially defensively. He's shooting a little bit better, which is nice to see, but his free throw shooting is worse which drives me insane. Aaron will always be a good solid player, but unfortunately this team is desperate for him to become a star and it's just not happening yet. The Magic would be stupid to give up on him though, he should be the only untouchable player in trades.

Ibaka - B : Ibaka has settled into a nice grove and has been pretty much the definition of solid. He's pretty dependable on both ends which is nice to see. The problem is with Ibaka, same with Evan, they are both looked at to be the guy but they are both probably better suited for a 2nd fiddle roll.

Vuc - B : Vuc has been pretty much exactly the same player we have had the past few years. Lately he's been playing much better defense which has been great to see. I like the move of him off the bench, which has brought some balance to the lineups. His days might be numbered here in Orlando though, which I have mixed feelings about. I've liked Vuc more than others on here over the past few years, and if he does get moved I will miss him.

Biyombo - B- : It's hard not to love Biz. He works his butt off each and every night, which you really can't say about anybody else on the team except for probably AG. He's been good defensively and great on the boards. He sets fantastic picks as well. His offensive game is terrible though, and unfortunately due to how this team is built, that has been an issue.

Augustine - B : DJ has been perfectly fine. The problem is, he should not be starting but is forced to because of Elf. He would be great in the role of a back up Point Guard, which is what he is supposed to be, but he's needed to be more which he really isn't.

Green - D- : Outside of a few games, Green usually does more bad than good. His effort leaves a lot to be desired and he's probably one of worst defensive players I have ever seen. He can be good offensively when he looks like he cares, but that usually isnt the case either.

Mario - F---- : I hate Mario. I am sick of him and I want him gone. Dude is such a disappointment and such a waste of a high draft pick. He is a shooter that can't shoot anymore. His dribble and defense is still terrible and his attitude seems bad as well. I've done long rants about him before so I'm not going to get more into it, but yeah, he sucks. We need the player we hoped Mario would be so badly, but instead we got a sulky bench warmer.

Meeks - C+ : He was injured for a lot of the season so far, but has been pretty decent since coming back. He's had a few bad games as well but so has everyone else.

All the other players really hasn't played enough to be graded.

Vogel : C+ : He's been given a weird team to coach. He's done well with some like Vuc, but hasn't made the impact I was hoping he would on some of the guys like AG. He needs a lot more time and I still fully believe he's the right man for the job. I don't like how he's relied on Green so much. That's probably my biggest issue with him. I have zero issue with the amount of playing time he's given Mario though, because I put that on Mario. There is more to it than Vogel just wants to play vets to try to win. Vogel talked a lot about him throughout the offseason and it very much looked Mario was going to be a big part of main rotation with how much he played in the preseason and early on. I really believe this is just Mario earning the amount of minutes he's been receiving and nothing more.

Judging by your grades of key players you would think Magic are 20-9 with few unlucky Ls
You literally gave every single Magic key player B or more but Payton

[orlando1214]

Judging by your grades of key players you would think Magic are 20-9 with few unlucky Ls
You literally gave every single Magic key player B or more but Payton

Not really, I gave Elf, Meeks, Green, and Mario all less than B's, and in total it's really only 6 out of 15 guys getting B's as well. So yeah, it's not even close to literally every single player getting B's. I mean I get what you're saying, but I stand by those six players getting B's. They all have been good but not great. I'm also grading them based on the player they are, I mean if Lebron played like how AG has played this year, would I give him a B as well? Of course not. For example, I gave Elfrid's grade based on what I know he is capable of. He's capable of being the player we saw at the Atlanta game, that was an A+ Elfrid, but he's not been that overall at all. So yeah, this isn't a player scale where Lebron is A+ and a D-League player is a F-, it's all based off of the player and what they are capable of.

[NBlue]

In his last 8 games EP is averaging 13.5 & 7 while coming off the bench and getting only 27 minutes per game. He definitely had a slow start and has been inconsistent but I think the overall **** play of the team has masked how much EP has improved. He is playing well -- even really well. There is certainly a lot of room for growth and we need to see him continue to be consistent but the last two weeks have been excellent.

That said, I'm pretty sure his time coming off the bench is about to come to an end. I think that's the next change Vogel is going to make.

[BadMofoPimp]

Nobody deserves an A.

Fournier = B
Ibaka = B+
Gordon = C
Vucevic = B-
Payton = C
Augstin = B-
Byiombo = C+
Green = C
Hezonja = D-

[KingRobb02]

Lol

Meeks is awful, terrible. Dunno what ur watching. Just useless.

I'm watching the guy I expected 0 from lead the team in TS%. Sure it's all garbage, but what did you think we were getting?

His TS% is 0,4% above league average, and all his "postive "stats come grand total of 2 great games , that are circled around 8 awful games. If you isolate his 8 bad games you get 24% FG , 20% three point shooter who once every 5 games gets hot for 3 and makes 3 to 4 of them.

His FG% right now is 37%. That's everything but good. His TS% is inflated by 2 hot games where he was 8 of 11 for 3, however good games both times were followed up with few games where he can't hit water from a boat.

He is 29 , it's hard to justify that level of inconstancy at that stage of his career. It's same thing that makes Jeff Green THAT bad. You simply can't rely on his production. One game he will get you great offense ,next 5 he will shoot you out of game. Than he pops up again playing great. Good teams avoid that type of gunners.

I don't understand how you can be mad at the fact that I said Meeks is playing better than I expected.

[BadMofoPimp]

Lol

Meeks is awful, terrible. Dunno what ur watching. Just useless.

I'm watching the guy I expected 0 from lead the team in TS%. Sure it's all garbage, but what did you think we were getting?

His TS% is 0,4% above league average, and all his "postive "stats come grand total of 2 great games , that are circled around 8 awful games. If you isolate his 8 bad games you get 24% FG , 20% three point shooter who once every 5 games gets hot for 3 and makes 3 to 4 of them.

His FG% right now is 37%. That's everything but good. His TS% is inflated by 2 hot games where he was 8 of 11 for 3, however good games both times were followed up with few games where he can't hit water from a boat.

He is 29 , it's hard to justify that level of inconstancy at that stage of his career. It's same thing that makes Jeff Green THAT bad. You simply can't rely on his production. One game he will get you great offense ,next 5 he will shoot you out of game. Than he pops up again playing great. Good teams avoid that type of gunners.

After playing in only a handful of games after 2 years of injuries, what do expect. Meeks to come in playing exactly like he did in his prime wiht no rust?

[pepe1991]

I'm watching the guy I expected 0 from lead the team in TS%. Sure it's all garbage, but what did you think we were getting?

His TS% is 0,4% above league average, and all his "postive "stats come grand total of 2 great games , that are circled around 8 awful games. If you isolate his 8 bad games you get 24% FG , 20% three point shooter who once every 5 games gets hot for 3 and makes 3 to 4 of them.

His FG% right now is 37%. That's everything but good. His TS% is inflated by 2 hot games where he was 8 of 11 for 3, however good games both times were followed up with few games where he can't hit water from a boat.

He is 29 , it's hard to justify that level of inconstancy at that stage of his career. It's same thing that makes Jeff Green THAT bad. You simply can't rely on his production. One game he will get you great offense ,next 5 he will shoot you out of game. Than he pops up again playing great. Good teams avoid that type of gunners.

After playing in only a handful of games after 2 years of injuries, what do expect. Meeks to come in playing exactly like he did in his prime wiht no rust?

Orginal qoute was flat out false. His TS isn't best on a team and his TS% is right around league average. I just posted fact. Out of 10 games he had 8 awful ones and 2 amazing ones. Rust is normal, relying on him and Green from Vogels perspective it's not normal. But that's story for another topic.

[KingRobb02]

His TS% is 0,4% above league average, and all his "postive "stats come grand total of 2 great games , that are circled around 8 awful games. If you isolate his 8 bad games you get 24% FG , 20% three point shooter who once every 5 games gets hot for 3 and makes 3 to 4 of them.

His FG% right now is 37%. That's everything but good. His TS% is inflated by 2 hot games where he was 8 of 11 for 3, however good games both times were followed up with few games where he can't hit water from a boat.

He is 29 , it's hard to justify that level of inconstancy at that stage of his career. It's same thing that makes Jeff Green THAT bad. You simply can't rely on his production. One game he will get you great offense ,next 5 he will shoot you out of game. Than he pops up again playing great. Good teams avoid that type of gunners.

After playing in only a handful of games after 2 years of injuries, what do expect. Meeks to come in playing exactly like he did in his prime wiht no rust?

Orginal qoute was flat out false. His TS isn't best on a team and his TS% is right around league average. I just posted fact. Out of 10 games he had 8 awful ones and 2 amazing ones. Rust is normal, relying on him and Green from Vogels perspective it's not normal. But that's story for another topic.

He was leading the team before sunday's game. When I made the post, the numbers weren't updated. Get over it.