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MagicMatic wrote:Dennis Reynolds wrote:So Fournier out for 2 games and we blow both opponents out even though we had what, 1 blowout? in previous 30 games?
Color me shocked!
Could Evan secretly be the tank commander?
Nemesis21 wrote:Optimus_Steel wrote:Other things i noticed:
AG was playing SG late 3rd quarter, thought that was interesting.
Payton seems like he is finally figuring out he can be a bully PG with his size and strength and speed. I wanted him to play like this since his rookie year but this month he is doing it consistently. That floater is a huge weapon.
We need to get Troy Daniels on this team. It doesn't matter what team he is in he kills us every time.
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We should have signed Lou Williams, 18.7 ppg off the bench. This guy can flat out score.
Patrick1978 wrote:yoyojw17 wrote:Optimus_Steel wrote:Other things i noticed:
AG was playing SG late 3rd quarter, thought that was interesting.
Payton seems like he is finally figuring out he can be a bully PG with his size and strength and speed. I wanted him to play like this since his rookie year but this month he is doing it consistently. That floater is a huge weapon.
We need to get Troy Daniels on this team. It doesn't matter what team he is in he kills us every time.
Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app
Yup.... loving the addition of that extra physicality and that floater. His play is definitely looking so much better and the confidence is swelling!
and AG at shooting guard was a shocker. Was following the game on my phone and was taken back by that lineup!
Really?gordon at sg?interesting
What was the rest of the lineup?
Instincts wrote:Blue_and_Whte wrote:I hate bursting bubbles I really do, but if we're banking on AG and EP to win games for us offensively then we're in trouble and will lose most games. We need to get Evan back because the likelihood of us winning consistently with those two as our offensive cogs is slim imo. Payton is playing well off the bench and I attribute that to playing against second units which gets his game going imo. Although I don't want them to change anything atm (Unless of course we're trading for an elite player) I'm morbidly curious to see what happens to Paytons production if we start him again.Instincts wrote:Nope they don't suck. More importantly we are seeing potential and hard work turn into results on the floor. Even as a big advocate of AG and EP, we still have to see the progress and both continue to get better, that is always the big question with young players and can't be taken for granted.
And with these two, the biggest question was the jump shot. The game is slowing down for them and the jump shots are looking improved and confident.
Just saw AG post game interview, absolutely love his demeanor, so humble, so team oriented, and so not satisfied or overwhelmed with one thirty point night. Sky is the limit.Optimus_Steel wrote:I don't agree with the narrative that Evan is a selfish ball stopper.
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He's not a selfish ball stopper. That's a narrative the Payton fans invented because he takes the ball out of Paytons hands which he should do being our best player by a mile.
You are going to be pleasantly surprised. While we can't expect EP and AG to carry the team offensively every night at this stage in their career, we can expect that they keep improving, and in year three that improvement is resulting in a streak of offensive breakout games for each in the last several weeks. The veterans were brought in to establish a consistency and leadership as EP and AG continue to develop and take more and more of the load over the next several years.
Optimus_Steel wrote:Nemesis21 wrote:Optimus_Steel wrote:Other things i noticed:
AG was playing SG late 3rd quarter, thought that was interesting.
Payton seems like he is finally figuring out he can be a bully PG with his size and strength and speed. I wanted him to play like this since his rookie year but this month he is doing it consistently. That floater is a huge weapon.
We need to get Troy Daniels on this team. It doesn't matter what team he is in he kills us every time.
Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app
We should have signed Lou Williams, 18.7 ppg off the bench. This guy can flat out score.
What kind of contract did he sign this offseason? If he got a multiyear contract Rob prob did not want that.
nymets1 wrote:Fournier might miss Wednesday's game as well
www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1983/evan-fournier
Evan Fournier (right heel contusion) is listed as questionable for Wednesday's game vs. Charlotte.
Fournier has missed two straight games with this heel issue. Jodie Meeks started in place of Fournier on Monday and scored 13 points (5-of-8 shooting and 3-of5 from downtown) in 29 minutes. C.J. Watson was scoreless (0-for-4) in 20 minutes off the bench. Meeks would likely start once again on Wednesday is Fournier does not play Dec 27 - 12:44 PM
Source: NBA.com
My hope is Fournier doesn't play and we get a 3rd consecutive game without him and see if our team continues to respond well without him. I'm assuming the Magic executives/ coaching staff, etc just like us on here see how much better the team is responding without Fournier. When Fournier comes back, he's been exposed. Somehow someway the Magic will give him minutes but his role cannot be the primary scorer or primary ball handler. He should come off the bench and not stop our ball movement. We are going to have to get him better and when Fournier play on the court is better, than he'll have trade value and than we try to get the approriate trade but no team wants Fournier right now.
Nyce_1 wrote:Great win. First game I got to watch this season, start to finish, live.
AG - I see you. Still a believer in the SF experiment.
Elf - may buy your jersey. I'm ignoring the rumors and think you and AG are teammates for another 5 years.
Mario, Mario, Mario. Hate the body language, but Vogel said something interesting in his presser. When asked about seeing Elf and AG development produce on the floor, he alluded to the strategy of going with developing 2 young guys first, with these vets. As if implying 3 guys at once, would be difficult; so they're focusing on Elf and AG now. Vogel they said, "Mario will have his time". When the first 2 are ballin' and believing the system, inserting Mario won't disrupt their growth and they can start to help him develop.
Optimus_Steel wrote:Patrick1978 wrote:yoyojw17 wrote:Yup.... loving the addition of that extra physicality and that floater. His play is definitely looking so much better and the confidence is swelling!
and AG at shooting guard was a shocker. Was following the game on my phone and was taken back by that lineup!
Really?gordon at sg?interesting
What was the rest of the lineup?
Think it was
Vuc
Ibaka
Green
AG
Payton
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I hate bursting bubbles I really do, but if we're banking on AG and EP to win games for us offensively then we're in trouble and will lose most games. We need to get Evan back because the likelihood of us winning consistently with those two as our offensive cogs is slim imo. Payton is playing well off the bench and I attribute that to playing against second units which gets his game going imo. Although I don't want them to change anything atm (Unless of course we're trading for an elite player) I'm morbidly curious to see what happens to Paytons production if we start him again.Instincts wrote:Nope they don't suck. More importantly we are seeing potential and hard work turn into results on the floor. Even as a big advocate of AG and EP, we still have to see the progress and both continue to get better, that is always the big question with young players and can't be taken for granted.
And with these two, the biggest question was the jump shot. The game is slowing down for them and the jump shots are looking improved and confident.
Just saw AG post game interview, absolutely love his demeanor, so humble, so team oriented, and so not satisfied or overwhelmed with one thirty point night. Sky is the limit.Optimus_Steel wrote:I don't agree with the narrative that Evan is a selfish ball stopper.
Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app
He's not a selfish ball stopper. That's a narrative the Payton fans invented because he takes the ball out of Paytons hands which he should do being our best player by a mile.
nymets1 wrote:My hope is Fournier doesn't play and we get a 3rd consecutive game without him and see if our team continues to respond well without him.
Bensational wrote:Blue_and_Whte wrote:I hate bursting bubbles I really do, but if we're banking on AG and EP to win games for us offensively then we're in trouble and will lose most games. We need to get Evan back because the likelihood of us winning consistently with those two as our offensive cogs is slim imo. Payton is playing well off the bench and I attribute that to playing against second units which gets his game going imo. Although I don't want them to change anything atm (Unless of course we're trading for an elite player) I'm morbidly curious to see what happens to Paytons production if we start him again.Instincts wrote:Nope they don't suck. More importantly we are seeing potential and hard work turn into results on the floor. Even as a big advocate of AG and EP, we still have to see the progress and both continue to get better, that is always the big question with young players and can't be taken for granted.
And with these two, the biggest question was the jump shot. The game is slowing down for them and the jump shots are looking improved and confident.
Just saw AG post game interview, absolutely love his demeanor, so humble, so team oriented, and so not satisfied or overwhelmed with one thirty point night. Sky is the limit.Optimus_Steel wrote:I don't agree with the narrative that Evan is a selfish ball stopper.
Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app
He's not a selfish ball stopper. That's a narrative the Payton fans invented because he takes the ball out of Paytons hands which he should do being our best player by a mile.
Vuc and Fournier provide a level of consistency and reliability which we need right now, but they also seem happy to get out of the way when AG or Elf are blowing up on good nights. I don't see any need to move them.
I agree that Payton is benefitting from starting against 2nd units, finding form, and then being able to carry that over against starters once they're subbed in. I think that's part of Vogel's design.
But I find it interesting that you use that as a means to degrade Elf, but don't seem to acknowledge that a guy you have long touted as our best player (Vuc) has been posting worse numbers than Payton over our last 20 games, and he's also playing against 2nd unit players.
I don't want it to be mistaken that by bringing that up I'm criticising Vuc. I've admitted several times that he's proven to be much more essential than I previously gave him credit for, and I'm pretty steadfastly against trading him. I just thought it was a bit of a double standard you had there for Elf.
CajunBall wrote:Instincts wrote:Blue_and_Whte wrote:I hate bursting bubbles I really do, but if we're banking on AG and EP to win games for us offensively then we're in trouble and will lose most games. We need to get Evan back because the likelihood of us winning consistently with those two as our offensive cogs is slim imo. Payton is playing well off the bench and I attribute that to playing against second units which gets his game going imo. Although I don't want them to change anything atm (Unless of course we're trading for an elite player) I'm morbidly curious to see what happens to Paytons production if we start him again.
He's not a selfish ball stopper. That's a narrative the Payton fans invented because he takes the ball out of Paytons hands which he should do being our best player by a mile.
You are going to be pleasantly surprised. While we can't expect EP and AG to carry the team offensively every night at this stage in their career, we can expect that they keep improving, and in year three that improvement is resulting in a streak of offensive breakout games for each in the last several weeks. The veterans were brought in to establish a consistency and leadership as EP and AG continue to develop and take more and more of the load over the next several years.
How anyone can attribute Payton's recent success simply to playing against second units is kind of crazy to me. The guy is a bench player in title only. The only thing Augustin has over him at this point is the honor of having his name called at the beginning of the game. Payton gets significantly more playing time which means a good portion of his success is in fact coming against other teams first units.
Seems he can't any credit from some people and if he manages to get at least some, it's always tempered by some "yeah but" remark.
